Oklahoma?

[Java65]

I generally don't listen to or watch ESPN but this AM I was working with somebody who had Mike & Mike on the radio. They were talking about what was more important a good win or a good loss. They were talking about Oklahoma having a better win(s) than ND but ND losing to the #1 team and OK losing to Texas.

Help me out who has Oklahoma beat. Here is there schedule

Akron - Terrible
Tennessee - Bad
Tulsa - Terrible
W. Virginia - Very Bad
Texas - Very Bad (and they lost)
Kansas. St. - Terrible
Texas Tech - Very Bad
Kansas - Terrible
Iowa St - Terrible

Granted they still have to play Baylor, TCU and Ok St. but are those 3 teams that much better than USC, Stanford or Temple. I think a lot of people dismiss Temple because of their name but they are a darn good team and probably win 5 out of 10 games against the teams above. Either OK wins may be slightly better but not by much.

 

[Toby Smart]

From what I heard the other day, besides Bama, no one has a better SOS than ND in the Top 20.

 

[FightingIrish44]

I was listening to the show this AM. I think they may have been getting wrapped up with OU dominating their competition, which isn't saying much.

I also wonder if they were factoring in OU's end of season schedule even though its hard to tell how good those teams are because they don't play anyone.

 

[Java65]

I was listening to the show this AM. I think they may have been getting wrapped up with OU dominating their competition, which isn't saying much.

I also wonder if they were factoring in OU's end of season schedule even though its hard to tell how good those teams are because they don't play anyone.

But are Baylor, TCU and Ok St much, if any, better than Stanford, USC or Temple? I would argue that Stanford is far and away better than anybody Ok will play.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

The playoff committee selection approach has changed nothing from the old days of the polls selecting the participants. It's equally subjective. I mean seriously whose yo say whether Baylor, Ok St and TCU are better than Stanford, USC, Temple etc. just no real way to tell. I keep hearing the "eye" test, which I find to be laughable. It's easy to look good against weak teams.

In the what do we want Saturday? A Baylor win eliminates OK. Or do we want OK to pin a loss on Baylor, potentially eliminating them????

 

[FightingIrish44]

I'd prefer OU to beat Baylor. It's possible that a one loss OU gets in over ND, but a zero loss Baylor will definitely get in over ND. I'd rather Baylor get their first loss plus they're sitting at #6 right now.

 

[TimTerrific]

If the decision over the final spot would be between a one loss ND or a one loss OU, it is a no brainer in ND's favor.

ND's one loss would be against the #1 team, played on the road in a monsoon and a loss because they failed a two point conversion. OU's loss would be a decisive loss against Texas, who N D destroyed.

It's not a close call.

 

[Granite45]

Stoops was scheduled on the show for a phone interview so they could have been just priming the situation for a smoother interview.

 

[BGI User 1596]

The playoff committee will also remember the recent history of ND playing Bama and compare that to OU's last outing against them - two completely different outcomes.

 

[Java65]

The playoff committee will also remember the recent history of ND playing Bama and compare that to OU's last outing against them - two completely different outcomes.

... and two completely different teams. ND also smacked around Bama 37-6 in 1987.

 

[atlirishfan2]

I have said this the whole time and yes there are still alot of IFs however IF Clemson wins the ACC Stanford takes the Pac and either Navy or Temple take the AAC hk5w does anyone pass a ND team that played 3 confrence Champs and had a 2-1 record againat them.

 

[StCecelia40]

I can see your argument and agree. The CFB geniuses assume OSU is playoff worthy because they beat TCU who was #8 at the time. But why were they #8, who had they played? Same question for Baylor, Some "experts" have them in the playoffs. Why? 94 SOS in the country? Have they even played a team with a winning record?

OK schedule is weak as noted above. If ND and Ok run the table, their only common opponent is TX. I don't see how they put OK in. It won't matter because I don't think OK wins out.

What has any Big 12 team done to deserve the respect they're getting?
The league backloaded their entire schedule to showcase their talent. It may backfire.
I would argue that the AAC has teams that would play B12 teams straight up.

 

[NDEwing18]

If the decision over the final spot would be between a one loss ND or a one loss OU, it is a no brainer in ND's favor.

ND's one loss would be against the #1 team, played on the road in a monsoon and a loss because they failed a two point conversion. OU's loss would be a decisive loss against Texas, who N D destroyed.

It's not a close call.

I don't disagree with you, but I think their analysis will go deeper than simply deciding who had the "best loss".

 

[1Redrum]

Oklahoma will not pass ND if the Irish go undefeated the rest of the way and Stanford only loses to ND. The Texas game will be Oklahoma's demise. That being said I expect Bama to lose Saturday as well as Ohio State sometime this year so Oklahoma and ND should be good if both win out. I think an undefeated Big 12 team could pass ND but that will not happen thanks to Oklahoma.

 

[stu4don]

You guys keep forgetting Navy who I think will end up at top 10-15 team and may well run the table (their only loss being ND.) And yes, I think they beat some of the teams Okla is about to play. This is a really really good Navy team this year. Watching them just dominate Memphis reminded me of how difficult it is to beat them. I do think we need for all of those Big 12 teams to have one loss (or Ohio State/Iowa to lose.) If OSU wins out, then we definitely need the Big 12 teams to have a loss. I'll take my chances with a one-loss Oklahoma, if we beat Stanford on the last week.

 

[D_Master]

Big 12 has learned the SEC hype machine. play little to no competition outside of the conference and beat up on a bunch of nobodies. Then when you play each othera high ranked team that loses its a MASSIVE achievement to defeat them. Look at how ESPN hopped on OK St nuts after they beat TCU, the same TCU that needed a miracle to beat Texas Tech.

It really does bother me that its all about "who you've beaten" at the top of your schedule rather than the whole resume for some, especially Greenburg. He was saying how Oklahoma should def be in if they win out, but outside those big 3 wins, which would be great wins, their schedule is weak and they lost to Texas who may not end up being a .500 team. How can we not punish a team for losing to a sub.500 team? If they lost their QB in the game i would give them a pass, but as far as i know they didnt. with only 4 teams getting in i think who you lose to has to come into play just as much as who you've beaten.

 

[FLballcoach1]

The playoff committee will also remember the recent history of ND playing Bama and compare that to OU's last outing against them - two completely different outcomes.

The current ND Senior Class were Freshman in 2012. That game will have no impact in the selection of the 2015 playoff participants. However if we are going to reference the 2012 season in a ND vs Oklahoma debate. Didn't ND beat Oklahoma badly in 2012?

 

[BGI User 1596]

The current ND Senior Class were Freshman in 2012. That game will have no impact in the selection of the 2015 playoff participants. However if we are going to reference the 2012 season in a ND vs Oklahoma debate. Didn't ND beat Oklahoma badly in 2012?

Didn't OU clown stomp ND in 2013?

 

[twalsh]

Didn't OU clown stomp ND in 2013?

As we did to them in 2012. Actually, in 2013 we spotted them 14 points in the first three minutes, ended up losing by the same 14 points.

 

[Java65]

You guys keep forgetting Navy who I think will end up at top 10-15 team and may well run the table (their only loss being ND.) And yes, I think they beat some of the teams Okla is about to play. This is a really really good Navy team this year. Watching them just dominate Memphis reminded me of how difficult it is to beat them. I do think we need for all of those Big 12 teams to have one loss (or Ohio State/Iowa to lose.) If OSU wins out, then we definitely need the Big 12 teams to have a loss. I'll take my chances with a one-loss Oklahoma, if we beat Stanford on the last week.

I forgot about Navy. Good point with them.

I agree with FightingIrish44, I think an undefeated Big12 team passes ND but I don't think a 1 loss Big12 does.

 

[FLballcoach1]

I'm not sure a game that was 27-21 in the 4th quarter and ended up 34-21 was a "clown stomp", Actually i am not even sure what a clown stomp is? Irregardless, the 2012 or 2013 has no bearing on what the 2015 playoff picture will end up looking like.

 

[FLballcoach1]

I think rather than reflecting back on games from 2012 or 2013. How about a ND vs Oklahoma debate start with a 2015 common opponent? (Texas) That is way more prevalent in a discussion of who goes to the playoff and who does not. And ND wins that debate 100 times out 100 tries

 

[nemeth#5]

All this talk is pointless..... Every year there is madness in the last few weeks. Remember 2012.... ND needed two teams to lose(I think Kansas State, and maybe Oregon ?). I wouldn't be surprised at all if a team no one is really talking about makes there way into the NC.

 

[Java65]

The committee has said consistently since last year that they look at the whole schedule. It cost the Big 12 last year and it will hurt them this year. You may play 3 really strong teams but if you play 6 to 7 sub .500 teams and 4 FCS teams then it will count against you. TCU, Okla State, Oklahoma, and Baylor have played a FCS team this year. It's like they've played 11 games this year compared to ND's 12. After seeing that I now wouldn't take an undefeated Big 12 team over ND or Stanford. You have to look at the total schedule and not the last three. No wonder the committee said ND was comfortably in the top 4.

Honestly, I would take an undefeated Big12 team over O$U this year. O$U has not looked good at all.

 

[perseverare]

OU's chances are if
they sweep and win out impressively
ND wins but plays close in it's remaining games
and then Stanford get blown out in the P12 game

then the committee decides who is playing better at the end of the season.

but there is the Kizer factor. Like TC winner Affirmed vs Alydar it seems DK and teammates just do not like losing! They struggle but they get their nose over the wire 1st!

This year points out the need to go to an 8 team format!

 

[FLballcoach1]

OSU overcame a bad loss to V Tech last year so I guess anything can happen, But I've got to believe that the Texas loss is going to hang around the head of a 12-1 Oklahoma team like an albatross. Especially when compared to an 11-1 ND team that whipped Texas.

 

[TDIrish27]

Agreed

 

[twalsh]

I generally don't listen to or watch ESPN but this AM I was working with somebody who had Mike & Mike on the radio. They were talking about what was more important a good win or a good loss. They were talking about Oklahoma having a better win(s) than ND but ND losing to the #1 team and OK losing to Texas.

Help me out who has Oklahoma beat. Here is there schedule

Akron - Terrible
Tennessee - Bad
Tulsa - Terrible
W. Virginia - Very Bad
Texas - Very Bad (and they lost)
Kansas. St. - Terrible
Texas Tech - Very Bad
Kansas - Terrible
Iowa St - Terrible

Granted they still have to play Baylor, TCU and Ok St. but are those 3 teams that much better than USC, Stanford or Temple. I think a lot of people dismiss Temple because of their name but they are a darn good team and probably win 5 out of 10 games against the teams above. Either OK wins may be slightly better but not by much.

May be a wee bit over the top in your categorizations of Oklahoma's opponents. Tennessee beat Georgia and led Alabama in the final minutes. West Virginia has four losses to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor & TCU. Texas Tech has five losses, four of them are to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor & TCU. Kansas State has five losses and, you guessed it, four of them are to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor & TCU.

 

[nemeth#5]

OSU overcame a bad loss to V Tech last year so I guess anything can happen, But I've got to believe that the Texas loss is going to hang around the head of a 12-1 Oklahoma team like an albatross. Especially when compared to an 11-1 ND team that whipped Texas.

"12-1 Oklahoma" Are we forgetting the B12 does not play a Conference Championship game?

 

[perseverare]

^ the conferences better teams inflict intra conf losses and batter each other, and then that affects fan impressions. THAT gererates the animosity over ND's independence.

If ND gets in the playoff and gets blown out, the independent issue will loom large in the future considerations.

 

[FLballcoach1]

Oh yeah...yes I forgot. Even better for ND!

 

[Pennick4]

May be a wee bit over the top in your categorizations of Oklahoma's opponents. Tennessee beat Georgia and led Alabama in the final minutes. West Virginia has four losses to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor & TCU. Texas Tech has five losses, four of them are to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor & TCU. Kansas State has five losses and, you guessed it, four of them are to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor & TCU.

How good are Oklahoma, OSU, Baylor and TCU? It is hard to say because the bottom half of the conference is craptastic.

 

[Bumpdaddy]

How good are Oklahoma, OSU, Baylor and TCU? It is hard to say because the bottom half of the conference is craptastic.

Right. You are touching on the argument that all the ESPN talking heads won't touch on. For all the soundbites ESPN gives to the "ND should join a conference" crowd, they ignore the number one virtue about being an independent - we get to play teams from more Power 5 conferences than any other team in the country. If winning a conference championship game is a virtue (which is something the Big 12 champ won't even be able to claim) then why is it more virtuous than playing teams from 3 different Power 5 conferences? It shouldn't be. A conference champion can normally only be compared to other teams within it's own conference. The experts might think they know how good a given conference champion might be but ,without seeing them play quality teams out of conference, how much confidence can they have in their assessment? We saw last year how much the collective "the SEC is by far the best conference" assessment was off base. Alabama, Auburn, Miss St., and Ole Miss all went down in flames in their respective bowl games, and of course another SEC standard bearer, LSU, went down to our beloved Irish - a team that was on a 4 game losing streak heading into the game.

Of all the teams in the discussion for the CFP, ND should be the easiest one to assess. We will have played quality teams from the Pac 12 and ACC. Our one game against Big 12 opponent Texas was a blowout and can at least be compared to OK St.'s narrow win and OU's embarrassing loss to them. And of course we have wins against possibly the 2 best non-Power 5 teams in the country. No other team can say that. If ESPN had any credibility they would bring up this point whenever someone asks, "but how can you put in a 1-loss Notre Dame ahead of a conference champion?" The answer should be, "because we've seen them play against quality opponents from multiple conferences which no other team in the country can claim." But of course you'll never hear them say that.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

^Spot on. Can't be said any better.

 

[pierremc]

I generally don't listen to or watch ESPN but this AM I was working with somebody who had Mike & Mike on the radio. They were talking about what was more important a good win or a good loss. They were talking about Oklahoma having a better win(s) than ND but ND losing to the #1 team and OK losing to Texas.

Help me out who has Oklahoma beat. Here is there schedule

Akron - Terrible
Tennessee - Bad
Tulsa - Terrible
W. Virginia - Very Bad
Texas - Very Bad (and they lost)
Kansas. St. - Terrible
Texas Tech - Very Bad
Kansas - Terrible
Iowa St - Terrible

Granted they still have to play Baylor, TCU and Ok St. but are those 3 teams that much better than USC, Stanford or Temple. I think a lot of people dismiss Temple because of their name but they are a darn good team and probably win 5 out of 10 games against the teams above. Either OK wins may be slightly better but not by much.

Well, your characterization of many of the teams on Oklahoma's schedule is simply not accurate. Tennessee is not a bad team. They are ok. West Virginia is decent. Kansas St. is decent. Texas Tech is average.

You combine their current schedule with games against TCU, Baylor and Oklahoma St., and that is a pretty tough schedule.

 

[Java65]

Well, your characterization of many of the teams on Oklahoma's schedule is simply not accurate. Tennessee is not a bad team. They are ok. West Virginia is decent. Kansas St. is decent. Texas Tech is average.

You combine their current schedule with games against TCU, Baylor and Oklahoma St., and that is a pretty tough schedule.

- Tennessee is bad, they are no better than Texas.
- WV is 4-4 and have lost to every decent team they have played, they are a terrible team.
- Kansas St!?!? You lose all credibility there. KSU is 3-5 with wins over SDAK (?), USA (?) and LT. They are a completely trash team.
- Texas Tech. Again, you lose considerable credibility by trying to claim TT is anything other than terrible. 5-5 with wins over; SHSU(?), UTEP, Ark, ISU and KU. they haven't beaten a single decent team.

Sorry, those teams you mention are bad teams