Notre Dame Men's Basketball Team

[IrishInOntario]

Gusty, composed, win tonight against Northwestern to go 5-0 on the season, but the major issue with this team (which will really show up in ACC play) was exposed tonight, yet again. With the graduation of Zack Auguste, Notre Dame gets killed on the glass at both ends of the floor.

Geben and Torres combined for ZERO rebounds tonight as ND got out rebounded 37-26 by a solid, but unspectacular, Northwestern squad. If ND was even just an above average rebounding group, they would have won the game running away down the stretch.

It's amazing to me how badly Brey's teams struggle on the glass. They are good offensively, and average defensively in space, but man does Notre Dame need a couple 6'10-6'11 developmental guys with big bodies, who may only be 4-6ppg guys, but who are good for a near double digit rebounds on most nights.

ND went small tonight and played a lot of 4-around-1, with Colson playing down low. He led the team with 11 rebounds, but ND's other "big guys" didn't do much on the glass at all. Geben (0), Torres (0), Beachem (2) and Pflueger (2) is just unacceptable for a team with NCAA tournament aspirations.

I'm definitely more of a football guy than a basketball guy, but I still enjoy the sport quite a bit. Can some of the basketball experts on the board better explain to me why Brey can't compromise a little bit at the offensive end of the floor and recruit a couple bangers, with size, who rebound like junk yard dogs and whose offensive game develops over 3-4 years? Auguste was an example of that, but even he was a top 100 guy. You look around college basketball though, and surely there are dozens of guys each year that go to programs "inferior" to Notre Dame's, that are "defense first" rebounders and shot blockers, with a little bit of scoring potential.

I'd kill for a pair of true post players that combined for 18-20 rebounds, 2-3 blocks and chipped in for 12-15ppg. Maybe it would hurt ND's offensive efficiency too much?? Anyone care to explain what I'm missing?

 

[ndhell]

Geben was definitely useless tonight. Maybe Mooney or Burns could have done better.

 

[Buguit]

Brey hasnt had many true post players .... he recruits guys who can shoot 3's all day .... and he has had a lot of good ones there ....the few post guys he has had he has kept as an afterthought ..... had Torin Francis ... a high school all-american .... Auguste was a prototypical post guy .... totally underutilized ..... his offensive philosophy doesn't believe in it .... kind of how Kelly doesn't believe in power running game

 

[IrishInOntario]

Brey hasnt had many true post players .... he recruits guys who can shoot 3's all day .... and he has had a lot of good ones there ....the few post guys he has had he has kept as an afterthought ..... had Torin Francis ... a high school all-american .... Auguste was a prototypical post guy .... totally underutilized ..... his offensive philosophy doesn't believe in it .... kind of how Kelly doesn't believe in power running game

I've always felt that Notre Dame post recruiting is similar to ND football D-line recruiting. ND lands a good one every couple years, but really struggles to string together consistent recruiting efforts that would see multiple quality players overlap (even by 1 year).

Looking at the future of the team, I see them getting more athletic. Guys like Pflueger, Gibbs, Harvey, and Djogo are "long" for their position and are versatile athletes that should help this team play better team defense on the perimeter and in the lane, but none of that is going to matter if they can't get bigger and more athletic in the paint.

 

[Bodizephax]

I don't know much about basketball either but one thing I know. Mike Brey knows more than me and all of you message board experts. Two straight elite eights and the team is looking great so far. 5 and 0 with a win over Colorado who just blew out #22 Texas.
Notre Dame has been consistently beating top teams like Duke and North Carolina and Syracuse. So whatever Mike Brey is doing during games and recruiting---KEEP DOING IT !!

 

[IrishInOntario]

I don't know much about basketball either but one thing I know. Mike Brey knows more than me and all of you message board experts. Two straight elite eights and the team is looking great so far. 5 and 0 with a win over Colorado who just blew out #22 Texas.
Notre Dame has been consistently beating top teams like Duke and North Carolina and Syracuse. So whatever Mike Brey is doing during games and recruiting---KEEP DOING IT !!

Brey went to back-to-back Elite 8's with an All American (first round pick) guard in Jerian Grant (2015), a 2nd round pick at PG in Demetrious Jackson (2015-2016) and a legit, athletic center in Zack Auguste, who was a top 100 player coming out of high school.

Brey is a very good coach in my opinion. I'd never pretend to know more about the game than he does... With that said, however, even the best coaches need talent. Both elite 8 teams had more talent than this year's group. When your starting backcourt are NBA guards, a lot of coaches look really good. Especially when they are complimented with a legit big man who ends up going pro as well... Fast forward to this year. Beachem is a likely NBA Draft Pick as a wing, but neither ND starting guard, Farrell or Vasturia, will sniff the NBA. I think this is another quality team and they'll beat some people in the ACC that they shouldn't, but I don't think the ceiling for this year's group is nearly as high come tournament time. I think they'll prove to be deeper this year, but Geben is just going to be average down low, and neither Torres or Burns (Both at 6'8) are a full time solution in the post. Both are quality role players (I think that's true of Torres especially) but neither is close to Auguste. I was really hoping ND would find a center to transfer in this off season and I hope they look diligently for another now that Harvey has signed as the lone signee in the class after they narrowly missed on out on Morsell.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Brey hasnt had many true post players .... he recruits guys who can shoot 3's all day .... and he has had a lot of good ones there ....the few post guys he has had he has kept as an afterthought ..... had Torin Francis ... a high school all-american .... Auguste was a prototypical post guy .... totally underutilized ..... his offensive philosophy doesn't believe in it .... kind of how Kelly doesn't believe in power running game

Buguit,

As a basketball fan, are you excited about a potential lineup down the road that could look like this?

PG: Temple Gibbs- JR (6'3, 210lbs)
G: Rex Pflueger- SR (6'6, 215lbs)
G: D.J. Harvey- SOPH (6'6, 200lbs)
F: John Mooney- JR (6'9, 250lbs)
F: ????? (Need a transfer)

Bench
G: Matt Ryan- SR (6'7,230lbs)
G: Nik Djogo- JR (6'7, 215lbs)
F: Elijah Burns- SR (6'8, 240lbs)

To me it all hinges on getting a key transfer down low, but I think ND has a good team in its future. I think that roster is really long and those guys are good defenders, especially Gibbs and Pflueger on their guards.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Prediction... I know I'm a homer, but I'm going to predict that Nik Djogo ends up being one of the better players we've seen at ND In the past decade. I think he's going to be a Pat Connaughton type that is big (6'7), physical, athletic and a heck of a rebounder and a shooter. I have two coaching friends (one from his former high school, Saltfleet) that tell me that he's way underrated. The one friend told me that he felt he is similar to, but more advanced than Nik Stauskas at the same age, who grew up just down the road in Mississauga. In general, the GA (Greater Toronto Area) is producing loads up talent over the past decade and that looks like it will keep happening... The greater area of Toronto has produced more 1st round NBA Draft picks over last half decade than the entire state of New York. That's roughly 20 million people (New York) vs 6.5 million people (GTA).

I really hope Brey keeps coming back up this way every year. These are kids with the academics to get into Notre Dame and who fit into 4 and 5 year plans, and are ridiculously underrated athletes.

Imagine what could be if my buddy is right and Djogo ends up being the next Stauskas to play along with Gibbs and Harvey. What a guard trio that could be... Grant / Jackson / Connaughton all over again, with more size.

 

[Telx1]

You can't separate scheme and physical attributes in basketball any more than you can in football. Ideally, you don't recruit a pro style drop back pocket passer for a QB if you have built the offense around a fast paced spread scheme suited for a dual threat QB. Brey coaches a perimeter spread the floor ball movement style of basketball, and he recruits accordingly. Elite centers are not going to be attracted to ND because Brey doesn't coach a pound the ball inside style of play, nor does he run the offense through the center position. He can get away with not having the prototype big you are describing because you can win playing zone defense at the college level, and he's willing to forgo the benefits of a dominant rebounding center in exchange for dominating perimeter three point shooting. That said, ND does need to be a better rebounding team, and that means more rebounding production from guys like Beachem. There are skilled bigs that can be very effective in Brey's system, but it takes a special one willing to sacrifice his game and stats accordingly. The pro game is increasingly going small ball for the same three ball advantage that Brey emphsasizes, and this is producing a new generation of bigs that can play the perimeter game, so perhaps there is an elite new age center in ND's future.

 

[IrishInOntario]

You can't separate scheme and physical attributes in basketball any more than you can in football. Ideally, you don't recruit a pro style drop back pocket passer for a QB if you have built the offense around a fast paced spread scheme suited for a dual threat QB. Brey coaches a perimeter spread the floor ball movement style of basketball, and he recruits accordingly. Elite centers are not going to be attracted to ND because Brey doesn't coach a pound the ball inside style of play, nor does he run the offense through the center position. He can get away with not having the prototype big you are describing because you can win playing zone defense at the college level, and he's willing to forgo the benefits of a dominant rebounding center in exchange for dominating perimeter three point shooting. That said, ND does need to be a better rebounding team, and that means more rebounding production from guys like Beachem. There are skilled bigs that can be very effective in Brey's system, but it takes a special one willing to sacrifice his game and stats accordingly. The pro game is increasingly going small ball for the same three ball advantage that Brey emphsasizes, and this is producing a new generation of bigs that can play the perimeter game, so perhaps there is an elite new age center in ND's future.

Thanks for the reply. I agree with everything you posted including the part about ND struggling to attract elite centers because of Brey's style... With that said, every year we see dozens of centers at low end P5 schools and Mid Major programs that would give ND a defensive and rebounding boost inside. Surely if Brey and his assistants cast a wide enough net, each year they'd be able to find a high 3 star / low 4 star guy with legit height and rebounding skills, who knows he's probably not a pro, but wants a free ND degree and has the ambition to try to develop his offense, but is focused on defense, rebounding and setting screens.

I know it's apples to oranges because ND is not Duke and Coach Brey is not Coach K... But the two programs run very similar offenses and Coach K can annually attract top flight big men running an offense that isn't necessarily geared towards them... If they can land All Americans to play the position, I'd like to think ND can land the poor man's version of a similar player.

ND really needs to get this practice facility going for its teams. When Brey gets the facility upgrades he needs, we should see a small spike in recruiting. Especially with the two new assistants, who I think are going to be a recruting upgrade over the previous two.

 

[IrishInOntario]

You can't separate scheme and physical attributes in basketball any more than you can in football. Ideally, you don't recruit a pro style drop back pocket passer for a QB if you have built the offense around a fast paced spread scheme suited for a dual threat QB. Brey coaches a perimeter spread the floor ball movement style of basketball, and he recruits accordingly. Elite centers are not going to be attracted to ND because Brey doesn't coach a pound the ball inside style of play, nor does he run the offense through the center position. He can get away with not having the prototype big you are describing because you can win playing zone defense at the college level, and he's willing to forgo the benefits of a dominant rebounding center in exchange for dominating perimeter three point shooting. That said, ND does need to be a better rebounding team, and that means more rebounding production from guys like Beachem. There are skilled bigs that can be very effective in Brey's system, but it takes a special one willing to sacrifice his game and stats accordingly. The pro game is increasingly going small ball for the same three ball advantage that Brey emphsasizes, and this is producing a new generation of bigs that can play the perimeter game, so perhaps there is an elite new age center in ND's future.

Thanks for the reply. I agree with everything you posted including the part about ND struggling to attract elite centers because of Brey's style... With that said, every year we see dozens of centers at low end P5 schools and Mid Major programs that would give ND a defensive and rebounding boost inside. Surely if Brey and his assistants cast a wide enough net, each year they'd be able to find a high 3 star / low 4 star guy with legit height and rebounding skills, who knows he's probably not a pro, but wants a free ND degree and has the ambition to try to develop his offense, but is focused on defense, rebounding and setting screens.

I know it's apples to oranges because ND is not Duke and Coach Brey is not Coach K... But the two programs run very similar offenses and Coach K can annually attract top flight big men running an offense that isn't necessarily geared towards them... If they can land All Americans to play the position, I'd like to think ND can land the poor man's version of a similar player.

ND really needs to get this practice facility going for its teams. When Brey gets the facility upgrades he needs, we should see a small spike in recruiting. Especially with the two new assistants, who I think are going to be a recruting upgrade over the previous two.

 

[cavanaugh208]

I swear that a poster on this site said that Brey doesn't coach the team..".the players run the show". That "Brey was just along for the ride" the past 2 years when they went to the Elite 8. "It's all Eric" was one of this moronic posters favorite quotes...

 

[Telx1]

IIO...I do agree that we should be able to recruit the center position better. My comments clearly apply to the upper echelon of centers, but totally agree that there are a lot of athletic rim protecting rebounding centers playing across the Div 1 landscape that could serve a valuable role.

 

[Buguit]

Buguit,

As a basketball fan, are you excited about a potential lineup down the road that could look like this?

PG: Temple Gibbs- JR (6'3, 210lbs)
G: Rex Pflueger- SR (6'6, 215lbs)
G: D.J. Harvey- SOPH (6'6, 200lbs)
F: John Mooney- JR (6'9, 250lbs)
F: ????? (Need a transfer)

Bench
G: Matt Ryan- SR (6'7,230lbs)
G: Nik Djogo- JR (6'7, 215lbs)
F: Elijah Burns- SR (6'8, 240lbs)

To me it all hinges on getting a key transfer down low, but I think ND has a good team in its future. I think that roster is really long and those guys are good defenders, especially Gibbs and Pflueger on their guards.

Gibbs looks like he can play ..... Pflueger looks like he can flat out shoot it .... I honestly don't have Mooney or Harvey figured out .... If Djogo = Stauskas that is pretty high praise and should be starting IMO ... Burns and Mooney would certainly offer some bang-ability .... I'd like to see ND use their centers more ... some people say that is not what we do .... well ... we can and just don't .... I'd like to see the plethora of 3 ball shooters we have opened up by using the centers to go inside out ... odds are we will be what we have been previous J Grant/D Jackson .... I think the fate of current team rests in Farrel's hands .... I like him and don't think he is getting enough attention

 

[IrishInOntario]

The real shame, IMO, is that Matt played as a freshman. Otherwise, he would be the ideal 5 year candidate. Oh well, but it would have been nice to have him on the roster two years from now.

 

[Pennick44]

Brey hasnt had many true post players .... he recruits guys who can shoot 3's all day .... and he has had a lot of good ones there ....the few post guys he has had he has kept as an afterthought ..... had Torin Francis ... a high school all-american .... Auguste was a prototypical post guy .... totally underutilized ..... his offensive philosophy doesn't believe in it .... kind of how Kelly doesn't believe in power running game

Brey doesn't recruit. The kids just come on their own.

 

[mwjourney]

I would like to see what Mooney can do with some playing time. I know 20+ rebound games in high school don't translate to getting college rebounds but hopefully it shows that he has that ability. I was watching the IPFW vs IU game last night and saw what IPFW could do not just in rebounding but in influencing shots around the rim with their two centers. I had thought that the IPFW would be a nice win for us but after the way they hung tough all game and upset IU, I'm not sure anymore.

I would also like to see what Burns can do with his athleticism because I think we need to find at least one more scorer when Bonzi or Beachem are on the bench or get in foul trouble.

 

[cavanaugh208]

The real shame, IMO, is that Matt played as a freshman. Otherwise, he would be the ideal 5 year candidate. Oh well, but it would have been nice to have him on the roster two years from now.

IIO..just a little fyi....the dude you are conversing with doesn't know squat about coaching basketball. Be advised...this asswipe said that 2 yrs ago Connaughton and Grant coached the team that went to the Elite 8 and came within a whisker of beating UK and getting to the FF. Last year it was Jackson and Auguste that coached the team. He tried to convince this site that "Brey was just along for the ride." He tried to convince posters that a bball team could walk into Durham, Chapel Hill, and Louisville and beat those 3 coaches with players coaching the team, Brey had nothing to do with it. He has said..."Brey sucks" and" Brey Blows" numerous times. This moron you are chattin with even went as far as putting some bullshit article written in the SB Tribune with a quote or two from ND players that he says proves that Brey does nothing, that the "Players run the show.".....You seem like an intelligent guy...I am assuming you coach football from reading some of your posts....believe me....it is only November..by mid-Jjanuary you will see what an idiot this dude is. As soon as ND loses a couple a games you will find out....