More coaching changes

[Telx1]

read that Elko is bringing his LB coach from Wake, his name is Clark Lea I believe. Has a very good rep. Read that this means Elston is moving to coach the DL and Gilmore was released this morning, but haven't read any confirmation of this. Hate for the delays in getting all these changes completed as we look like a program in constant state of flux, and that has to influence committed recruits and the few remaining targeted recruits.if this is true about Gilmore, hope like hell that Elston played a significant roll in recruiting Ewell, as we can't afford to lose him, and hope Elston has a connection to young Cage and the DL we are trying to flip.

 

[Java65]

This is ND we do it our way.... which is why for the last 20 years we have been mediocre.

 

[Ara64]

Telx, I just saw that Long has officially been hired. In his statement Kelly said, "Chip will be given the full responsibility to call plays in 2017.” He also said in that statement, “His offense at Memphis displayed a unique blend of physicality, athleticism, versatility and explosiveness. Chip’s play-calling created mismatches all over the field and did it in a number of different ways. He likes to use players who can fill numerous roles in an array of formations, whether that be two and three tight ends or multiple running backs.

 

[hvillebill]

This is ND we do it our way.... which is why for the last 20 years we have been mediocre.

Java - come on. How about if we give these guys a chance?

Kelly is doing what he needs to be doing - making drastic changes to try and save his job and fix the issues within the program.

 

[RowTheBoatND]

Java - come on. How about if we give these guys a chance?

Kelly is doing what he needs to be doing - making drastic changes to try and save his job and fix the issues within the program.

Has Kelly learned when and when not to go for 2 yet? He makes coaching changes, sure, but he doesn't look himself in the mirror. He thinks he's gods gift to the world of coaching. He's the biggest problem on game day because he just doesn't get it.

 

[Java65]

Java - come on. How about if we give these guys a chance?

Kelly is doing what he needs to be doing - making drastic changes to try and save his job and fix the issues within the program.

Kelly has had 7 years. The ND administration has had 20+ years (since firing Lou), exactly how many more years to each get? Do you really think after 7 years Kelly is going to "figure it out" in year 8.

 

[Irishjohn68]

Has Kelly learned when and when not to go for 2 yet? He makes coaching changes, sure, but he doesn't look himself in the mirror. He thinks he's gods gift to the world of coaching. He's the biggest problem on game day because he just doesn't get it.

Kelly has had 7 years. The ND administration has had 20+ years (since firing Lou), exactly how many more years to each get? Do you really think after 7 years Kelly is going to "figure it out" in year 8.

Are you two nitwits related?

 

[Java65]

Are you two nitwits related?

Nitwits.. says the guy who wants to keep doing things like we have done them.

 

[Telx1]

Telx, I just saw that Long has officially been hired. In his statement Kelly said, "Chip will be given the full responsibility to call plays in 2017.” He also said in that statement, “His offense at Memphis displayed a unique blend of physicality, athleticism, versatility and explosiveness. Chip’s play-calling created mismatches all over the field and did it in a number of different ways. He likes to use players who can fill numerous roles in an array of formations, whether that be two and three tight ends or multiple running backs.

Ara...It's almost beyond belief that Kelly is now saying that Long will call the plays, etc... but this is an interesting development, if it proves factual in practice. I keep hoping that last season was humbling to the point Kelly will take command as the CEO of the program and have enough trust and confidence in the coaches he hires to let them do their thing. As of today, he is at least saying the right things, although it wasn't more than a few weeks ago he was insisting he was going to call the plays.

 

[Telx1]

This is ND we do it our way.... which is why for the last 20 years we have been mediocre.

Java, Kelly's stupid mistakes and arrogant deniability of same aside, can you imagine how difficult it must be to try to overhaul your coaching staff, retain your recruits, and sign new recruits, etc... while the administration goes through their several week damn bureaucratic process to approve your propose hires? Other programs and this would have been done within a few days, without missing a beat. Being HC at ND must be incredibly frustrating.

 

[Java65]

Java, Kelly's stupid mistakes and arrogant deniability of same aside, can you imagine how difficult it must be to try to overhaul your coaching staff, retain your recruits, and sign new recruits, etc... while the administration goes through their several week damn bureaucratic process to approve your propose hires? Other programs and this would have been done within a few days, without missing a beat. Being HC at ND must be incredibly frustrating.

I don't disagree which is why I have ALWAYS said that its not all Kellys fault. I think ND can win 10 games a season with the occasional 12 win season and 6 win season. Kelly hasn't even met those lowered standards.

To your point, I can't imagine another big program retaining Kelly forget overhauling the entire staff 1 month at a time. ND does it their way. They must think there is some honor in doing everything the most difficult way possible.

 

[Toby Smart]

Has Kelly learned when and when not to go for 2 yet? He makes coaching changes, sure, but he doesn't look himself in the mirror. He thinks he's gods gift to the world of coaching. He's the biggest problem on game day because he just doesn't get it.

You made a solemn promise not to be posting if BK remained at ND and now you are breaking your solemn promise to everyone. Weren't you ever taught to keep a promise?

 

[greengael]

Java, Kelly's stupid mistakes and arrogant deniability of same aside, can you imagine how difficult it must be to try to overhaul your coaching staff, retain your recruits, and sign new recruits, etc... while the administration goes through their several week damn bureaucratic process to approve your propose hires? Other programs and this would have been done within a few days, without missing a beat. Being HC at ND must be incredibly frustrating.

They did move quickly once...O'Leary wasn't it? or was it Kuharic ? [smile]

 

[Telx1]

They did move quickly once...O'Leary wasn't it? or was it Kuharic ? [smile]

Maybe they should have stayed with O'Leary...bogus resume and all!

 

[Classic Irish]

You made a solemn promise not to be posting if BK remained at ND and now you are breaking your solemn promise to everyone. Weren't you ever taught to keep a promise?

What did you expect from someone with zero integrity?

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

Ara...It's almost beyond belief that Kelly is now saying that Long will call the plays, etc... but this is an interesting development, if it proves factual in practice. I keep hoping that last season was humbling to the point Kelly will take command as the CEO of the program and have enough trust and confidence in the coaches he hires to let them do their thing. As of today, he is at least saying the right things, although it wasn't more than a few weeks ago he was insisting he was going to call the plays.

Long will be the designated play caller. However, if on the first play against Temple Long decides to line up with 2 TEs and runs a power run play that goes for 14 yards and a first down. Then expect Kelly to take over the reins and start calling fade routes that go for incompletions on first down.

 

[Toby Smart]

I did actually see a recent interview with BK. He did say that as HC, he reserves the right to over rule anything he doesn't feel comfortable with, but, I'm sure that is the policy with all HCs.

 

[Irish Duck]

Here's a question for all of you BK haters. Given that he is coming back for the '17 season, what would you have wanted him to do in the offseason? He's changed the DC and OCs, apparently upgrading both from a coaching and recruiting standpoint. He had apparently agreed to turn play calling over to his OC which is something most of us have wanted for a while. What else (other than resigning) would you want him to do?

 

[Java65]

Here's a question for all of you BK haters. Given that he is coming back for the '17 season, what would you have wanted him to do in the offseason? He's changed the DC and OCs, apparently upgrading both from a coaching and recruiting standpoint. He had apparently agreed to turn play calling over to his OC which is something most of us have wanted for a while. What else (other than resigning) would you want him to do?

I honestly don't think there is anything he can do. Is hiring the DC from Wake really an upgrade? I'm not sure there was a long line of elite programs banging on his door. Nothing against him he may be a good DC but he's hardly elite. Same could be said for our OC.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Here's a question for all of you BK haters. Given that he is coming back for the '17 season, what would you have wanted him to do in the offseason? He's changed the DC and OCs, apparently upgrading both from a coaching and recruiting standpoint. He had apparently agreed to turn play calling over to his OC which is something most of us have wanted for a while. What else (other than resigning) would you want him to do?

He did change OC Sanford left, but is Long is an upgrade, over Sanford?

 

[impossibilityofreason1]

If Sanford wasn't allowed to call plays then we may never know.

 

[BGI User 1596]

Long is an upgrade, over Sanford?

Sanford at least managed to keep his career going forward...hope he does well.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Sanford at least managed to keep his career going forward...hope he does well.

That was a question for Irish Duck. I like Sanford, but he needed HC experience so I'm glad for him.

 

[deadirishpoet]

If Sanford wasn't allowed to call plays then we may never know.

A poster stated he's been calling the plays the past two season.

 

[impossibilityofreason1]

I probably missed that, thought I read an article that said he didn't call plays.

 

[deadirishpoet]

I probably missed that, thought I read an article that said he didn't call plays.

I'm not doubting you. It sure would be interesting if he did, or not

 

[Nocalirish]

[QUOT. 9"Irish Duck, post: 1893490, member: 2316"]Here's a question for all of you BK haters. Given that he is coming back for the '17 season, what would you have wanted him to do in the offseason? He's changed the DC and OCs, apparently upgrading both from a coaching and recruiting standpoint. He had apparently agreed to turn play calling over to his OC which is something most of us have wanted for a while. What else (other than resigning) would you want him to do?[/QUOTE]
Do it before going 4-8 that is assuming it was the ast coaches fault and Kelly doesnt go 4-8 again with new guys but the same weak HC.

 

[Java65]

I probably missed that, thought I read an article that said he didn't call plays.

People way overestimate the total value of playcalling in being an OC. Kelly could very well relinquish play calling duties but if he's still the de facto OC the offense will still suffer.

Putting together the playbook, formations, personnel packages those have as more impact on the offence than play calling. For example, if you have 3 WR screen plays you put in the PB for the upcoming game and all 3 see you stack 3 WR the call may be good but the formation is a giveaway. If you always run when you put in TE 'X' that's a fault of the package and not necessarily the play call.

Handing over play calling duties to the OC when the playbook is garbage isn't going to change the offense. Kelly needs to be out of the day to day operations altogether.

 

[deadirishpoet]

People way overestimate the total value of playcalling in being an OC. Kelly could very well relinquish play calling duties but if he's still the de facto OC the offense will still suffer.

Putting together the playbook, formations, personnel packages those have as more impact on the offence than play calling. For example, if you have 3 WR screen plays you put in the PB for the upcoming game and all 3 see you stack 3 WR the call may be good but the formation is a giveaway. If you always run when you put in TE 'X' that's a fault of the package and not necessarily the play call.

Handing over play calling duties to the OC when the playbook is garbage isn't going to change the offense. Kelly needs to be out of the day to day operations altogether.

That was my understanding of the OC responsiblities, they would develop the offense with the HC blessing throughout the season(practice/off season)

 

[Kelso86]

Here is a novel approach -- instead of bitching and complaining about what you think needs to be done (because, I am sure a lot of you have been an OC or a DC before), why not wait until the season starts and see how it plays out?

 

[Irish Duck]

That was a question for Irish Duck. I like Sanford, but he needed HC experience so I'm glad for him.

I don't have an answer for you on that.

 

[Irish Duck]

[QUOT. 9"Irish Duck, post: 1893490, member: 2316"]Here's a question for all of you BK haters. Given that he is coming back for the '17 season, what would you have wanted him to do in the offseason? He's changed the DC and OCs, apparently upgrading both from a coaching and recruiting standpoint. He had apparently agreed to turn play calling over to his OC which is something most of us have wanted for a while. What else (other than resigning) would you want him to do?

Do it before going 4-8 that is assuming it was the ast coaches fault and Kelly doesnt go 4-8 again with new guys but the same weak HC.[/QUOTE]

That's not really a response. Clearly he could have, and should have, made changes a long time ago. The question is what else would you want him to do in THIS offseason other than what he has already done?

 

[Kelso86]

Do it before going 4-8 that is assuming it was the ast coaches fault and Kelly doesnt go 4-8 again with new guys but the same weak HC.

That's not really a response. Clearly he could have, and should have, made changes a long time ago. The question is what else would you want him to do in THIS offseason other than what he has already done?[/QUOTE]

Duck -- at this point, people are simply pissed that Kelly is still around -- what ever changes he makes or has made in the off season will not please these people.

 

[Telx1]

Do it before going 4-8 that is assuming it was the ast coaches fault and Kelly doesnt go 4-8 again with new guys but the same weak HC.

That's not really a response. Clearly he could have, and should have, made changes a long time ago. The question is what else would you want him to do in THIS offseason other than what he has already done?[/QUOTE]
Short of resigning, Kelly has addressed just about every change clamored for on this board, including ST and Strength and Conditioning to add to your list. Whether they are upgrades remain to be seen, but Impossible to imagine anything less with these two changes and DC. Offense is clearly a wait and see.

 

[Java65]

[

That's not really a response. Clearly he could have, and should have, made changes a long time ago. The question is what else would you want him to do in THIS offseason other than what he has already done?

We could have made the same argument with Weis. There is nothing in Kelly's history at ND that leads me to believe he suddenly understands. For 7 years we have QB's regress, we have seen nothing but empty backfield in the RZ, we have seen an offense that is predictable to every other team, we have seen turnovers, poor ST's, on and on.

So kudos to Kelly for rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[Irish Duck]

[


We could have made the same argument with Weis. There is nothing in Kelly's history at ND that leads me to believe he suddenly understands. For 7 years we have QB's regress, we have seen nothing but empty backfield in the RZ, we have seen an offense that is predictable to every other team, we have seen turnovers, poor ST's, on and on.

So kudos to Kelly for rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

The fact that he has hired so many new coaches with whom he has no history (and, accordingly, outside of his comfort zone), suggest that he, in fact, finally understands that his SOP does not work at this level of college football and/or at ND. The question now is whether, with all of these new coaches, he takes a more CEO-type approach to being the head coach.

It may well turn out that he is psychologically incapable of really changing but I will give him credit for at least trying to do what he has to do to make ND better (and to keep his job). I truly hope he succeeds but if not, we can always start talking about his replacement again.

 

[Java65]

That's not really a response. Clearly he could have, and should have, made changes a long time ago. The question is what else would you want him to do in THIS offseason other than what he has already done?

Short of resigning, Kelly has addressed just about every change clamored for on this board, including ST and Strength and Conditioning to add to your list. Whether they are upgrades remain to be seen, but Impossible to imagine anything less with these two changes and DC. Offense is clearly a wait and see.[/QUOTE]
I'll tell you what he could have done... made the necessary changes right after our season ended. Here we nearly 2 months after our final game and we are still making changes. We have left recruits wondering who their position coach is going to be. Kelly should have had the new staff in place and ready to recruit right after the USC game. As it stands we don't even have the entire staff in place, maybe we do who knows, the new coaches could have been part of the recruiting meetings from then until now but no, Kelly drags his feet.

So yea, Kelly did the one thing he could. He did the one think any other coach would do and made necessary changes. Even with that, even with making the changes everybody knew he had to make, he still screws it up and he continues to screw it up. So while we have the longest staff change in the history of college sports we are seeing our recruiting class eaten up.

 

[Java65]

The fact that he has hired so many new coaches with whom he has no history (and, accordingly, outside of his comfort zone), suggest that he, in fact, finally understands that his SOP does not work at this level of college football and/or at ND. The question now is whether, with all of these new coaches, he takes a more CEO-type approach to being the head coach.

It may well turn out that he is psychologically incapable of really changing but I will give him credit for at least trying to do what he has to do to make ND better (and to keep his job). I truly hope he succeeds but if not, we can always start talking about his replacement again.

See my post. He even screwed up making changes. He should have been working on these changes during the year and had them ready to go soon after the USC game. Get the new staff in, get them caught up on recruiting and work like crazy until NSD. Not Kelly, he takes 2 months to make the changes, these new coaches don't have an idea where we stand with players in recruiting, they haven't been able to develop a relationship with committed players.

So even something so basic as this. Something every other coach in America knew had to be done, Kelly screws it up.

 

[Irish Duck]

I will concede that he should have made many of these changes much earlier. The question, of course, is could he have. Many of these coaches were preparing for bowl games and may not have been available for interviews. The fact, however, is that I just don't know.

 

[Java65]

I will concede that he should have made many of these changes much earlier. The question, of course, is could he have. Many of these coaches were preparing for bowl games and may not have been available for interviews. The fact, however, is that I just don't know.

You have a point but lowly FL. Atlantic was able to get Kiffin to move and this team was playing for the NC. Certainly ND could have started the process months ago but who knows.

Again, it just seems ND's football program is run so shabbily from top to bottom, not just Kelly but everywhere.