Marcus Freeman Watch --1

[4-4-3]

ND Coaches, 5 Games In, Year 2

Of ND’s previous 14 coaches, two were undefeated after 5 games of their second year while 8 were 4-1. Freeman will either join Rockne and Layden as the only two undefeated at that point or the 8 who had won 4 and lost 1. The other one game loser was Leahy who also had a tie.

Harper

4-1

Final record: 6-2

Rockne

5-0

Final record: 9-0

Layden

5-0

Final record: 7-1-1 (beat OSU 18-13)

Leahy

3-1-1

Final record: 7-2-2

Brennan

4-1

Final record: 8-2

Kuharich

1-4

Final record : 2-8

Parseghian

4-1

Final record: 7-2-1

Devine

4-1

Final record: 9-3

Faust

4-1

Final record: 6-4-1

Holtz

4-1

Final record: 8-4

Davie

4-1

Final record: 9-3

Willingham

2-3

Final Record: 5-7

Weis

4-1

Final record: 10-3

Kelly

3-2

Final record: 8-5

 

[sjb75]

Anyone have Advil?

 

[shooter1977]

For Weis, the team was slipping by late September of season two. Blocking and tackling weren't nearly as crisp as 2005. The hyped late September home game vs. Michigan was a debacle and warning sign of things to come. ND looked soft. Brady Quinn and Smardazija put a lot of makeup on that 2006 team.

The 2011 team for Kelly was headed the opposite direction. ND put up 59 vs. Air Force in early October and looked like a top 10 team. They weren't there yet, but arrows were pointing up.

For Holtz, there was no question. ND looked like top 3 team in the nation until late November during his second season.

 

[4-4-3]

T

For Weis, the team was slipping by late September of season two. Blocking and tackling weren't nearly as crisp as 2005. The hyped late September home game vs. Michigan was a debacle and warning sign of things to come. ND looked soft. Brady Quinn and Smardazija put a lot of makeup on that 2006 team.

The 2011 team for Kelly was headed the opposite direction. ND put up 59 vs. Air Force in early October and looked like a top 10 team. They weren't there yet, but arrows were pointing up.

For Holtz, there was no question. ND looked like top 3 team in the nation until late November during his second season.

That's pretty much as I remember it as well.

So, what's your take on this year's team -- directionally from last year and also as it now stands at this point in the season given what it's facing?

 

[john0gaunt]

Appreciate the research 443. But most importantly, how many beat ohio state? This game is so important to Coach MF..

 

[4-4-3]

Appreciate the research 443. But most importantly, how many beat ohio state? This game is so important to Coach MF..

Thanks.

Only Layden beat OSU. Did it twice. 35 and 36.

Legend has it that OSU then said, "ENOUGH."

But then Eddie George came along at the end of the Holtz era, and ever since, OSU has OWNED ND.

We'll see what happens tomorrow,

 

[mbd11]

Thanks.

Only Layden beat OSU. Did it twice. 35 and 36.

Legend has it that OSU then said, "ENOUGH."

But then Eddie George came along at the end of the Holtz era, and ever since, OSU has OWNED ND.

We'll see what happens tomorrow,

They also had Orlando Pace, Terry Glenn, etc. That was a loaded Ohio State team. But hopefully we can finally knock them off tomorrow.

 

[Patrirish]

T

That's pretty much as I remember it as well.

So, what's your take on this year's team -- directionally from last year and also as it now stands at this point in the season given what it's facing?

Weis lacked putting emphasis on defense

 

[4-4-3]

They also had Orlando Pace, Terry Glenn, etc. That was a loaded Ohio State team. But hopefully we can finally knock them off tomorrow.

That's right. It was quite a team.

Yet, ND led halfway through the 3rd quarter, 20-14 before fumbling a punt deep in its territory. Then after OSU went up 21-20, Powlus was intercepted deep in OSU territory on the ensuing drive. On its next possession, OSU hit on a long TD pass to Glenn, going up 28-20. On the first play of the next set of downs, Powlus fumbled and OSU recovered. Eddie George then took it in for a TD. ND responded with a TD but missed the two point conversion.

It's at that point, Eddie George pretty much took over, rushing for over 200 total yards.

I saw that game as the first nail in the Holtz coffin, fearing that he would now NOT lead ND on another dominating run. The LOCUS OF POWER had shifted.

Yes, we'll see what happens tomorrow.

Will the worm turn again?

 

[HDK]

That's right. It was quite a team.

Yet, ND led halfway through the 3rd quarter, 20-14 before fumbling a punt deep in its territory. Then after OSU went up 21-20, Powlus was intercepted deep in OSU territory on the ensuing drive. On its next possession, OSU hit on a long TD pass to Glenn, going up 28-20. On the first play of the next set of downs, Powlus fumbled and OSU recovered. Eddie George then took it in for a TD. ND responded with a TD but missed the two point conversion.

It's at that point, Eddie George pretty much took over, rushing for over 200 total yards.

I saw that game as the first nail in the Holtz coffin, fearing that he would now NOT lead ND on another dominating run. The LOCUS OF POWER had shifted.

Yes, we'll see what happens tomorrow.

Will the worm turn again?

I had forgotten how many turnovers we had in the second half of that game against a loaded Ohio State team.

Holtz was a hell of a big game coach, and that one was right after he had some serious neck surgery.

As far realizing that ND wasn't going to win another championship under Holtz, I think it was the entire 1994 season that convinced me of that, and if that didn't, getting beaten by Northwestern at home in 1995 sure did.

 

[4-4-3]

I had forgotten how many turnovers we had in the second half of that game against a loaded Ohio State team.

Holtz was a hell of a big game coach, and that one was right after he had some serious neck surgery.

As far realizing that ND wasn't going to win another championship under Holtz, I think it was the entire 1994 season that convinced me of that, and if that didn't, getting beaten by Northwestern at home in 1995 sure did.

Yes, you're probably right that the entire 94 season was the bubble burster. But I, for one, was in denial as Holtz had been such a MAGICIAN/COACH for so many years that I couldn't help but RATIONALIZE that season as some kind of ABERRATION, much like Kelly's 2016.

And you're also right about the NW game. The sense of disbelief I felt permeating the stadium, as the game progressed, even as I only observed it on TV was PALPABLE. Suddenly, a team that hadn't been able to line up against ND for years, was slashing gaping holes in its D and completing chunk passes over the middle with IMPUNITY.

The REAL SHOCK was in realizing that the SENSE OF DOMINANCE Holtz's ND teams had always exuded was gone. Even when they'd lost, they'd still seemed INVINCIBLE in theory and that any given loss had been just a fluke.

And that's because they so often came right back and redeemed themselves as no team was better on paper or too big to take apart on the field. It was a very similiar feeling to the way people have felt about Alabama during its own even more incredible run.

 

[mbd11]

That's right. It was quite a team.

Yet, ND led halfway through the 3rd quarter, 20-14 before fumbling a punt deep in its territory. Then after OSU went up 21-20, Powlus was intercepted deep in OSU territory on the ensuing drive. On its next possession, OSU hit on a long TD pass to Glenn, going up 28-20. On the first play of the next set of downs, Powlus fumbled and OSU recovered. Eddie George then took it in for a TD. ND responded with a TD but missed the two point conversion.

It's at that point, Eddie George pretty much took over, rushing for over 200 total yards.

I saw that game as the first nail in the Holtz coffin, fearing that he would now NOT lead ND on another dominating run. The LOCUS OF POWER had shifted.

Yes, we'll see what happens tomorrow.

Will the worm turn again?

Our talent level had dropped those last few years under Holtz, while Ohio State's had gotten better under John Cooper. So they had the more talented team by '95.

 

[4-4-3]

Our talent level had dropped those last few years under Holtz, while Ohio State's had gotten better under John Cooper. So they had the more talented team by '95.

Yes, and that was so PAINFULLY APPARENT at the time, I found it pretty hard to take.

Under Holtz, ND had had many of the country's premier football athletes. But by 95, those kinds of players were now at OSU, Nebraska and other places.

It was obvious that something QUITE NEGATIVE had occurred at ND. And the proof is that ND has never seen a #1 recruiting class since 1990. By 95 when that first renewed ND/OSU game took place, those guys were for the most part GONE.

 

[mbd11]

Yes, and that was so PAINFULLY APPARENT at the time, I found it pretty hard to take.

Under Holtz, ND had had many of the country's premier football athletes. But by 95, those kinds of players were now at OSU, Nebraska and other places.

It was obvious that something QUITE NEGATIVE had occurred at ND. And the proof is that ND has never seen a #1 recruiting class since 1990. By 95 when that first renewed ND/OSU game took place, those guys were for the most part GONE.

Supposedly they instituted tighter academic standards towards the end of Holtz' tenure, which may have contributed.

 

[4-4-3]

Supposedly they instituted tighter academic standards towards the end of Holtz' tenure, which may have contributed.

That's what "they say," and it's always sounded PLAUSIBLE to me as the kind of player Holtz got from 87 through 90 -- and the SHEER QUANTITY of them -- stopped showing up. And Holtz was still recruiting for another 5 years.

Seems to me -- what with the LEVEL OF SUCCESS HE'D ENJOYED, his becoming something of an ICON in his own right, football becoming TOO PROMINENT, the booster scandal and the STEROID ALLEGATIONS -- SOMEONE CLIPPED HIS WINGS.

ND's new AD and Admin DIDN'T LIKE THE LOOK.

That's how it's always STRUCK ME. But then, I was NEVER IN THE ROOM at any time, so I DON'T KNOW.

 

[Patrirish]

That's what "they say," and it's always sounded PLAUSIBLE to me as the kind of player Holtz got from 87 through 90 -- and the SHEER QUANTITY of them -- stopped showing up. And Holtz was still recruiting for another 5 years.

Seems to me -- what with the LEVEL OF SUCCESS HE'D ENJOYED, his becoming something of an ICON in his own right, football becoming TOO PROMINENT, the booster scandal and the STEROID ALLEGATIONS -- SOMEONE CLIPPED HIS WINGS.

ND's new AD and Admin DIDN'T LIKE THE LOOK.

That's how it's always STRUCK ME. But then, I was NEVER IN THE ROOM at any time, so I DON'T KNOW.

I’d lean toward Wadsworth.

 

[4-4-3]

I’d lean toward Wadsworth.

That sounds right. He apparently didn't' care for Holtz.

 

[Patrirish]

That sounds right. He apparently didn't' care for Holtz.

And vice versa !