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Looking at our early commits for 2018

I

Izo

Posts Like A Champion
Nov 1, 2008
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According to ESPN

Espn's top 74 football athletes ,none to ND

Espn's top 69 cornerbacks , so far none listed to ND

ESPN's top 84 defensive ends ,so far none listed to ND

ESPN's top 70 defensive tackles , so far #24 Jayson Ademilola and #51 Ja'mion Franklin

ESPN 's top 31 inside linebackers,so far # 15 Matt Bauer

ESPN's top 61 outside linebackers ,so far #27 Justin Ademilola and #50 Ovie Oghoufon

ESPN's top 86 tackles,so far #40 Cole Mabry and # 50 John Dirksen

ESPN's top 54 safeties ,so far # 5 Derrick Allen

Realistically , this kind of recruiting in not going to challenge for any kind of a championship .

Also might have missed some recruits
 
Really? Its summer and the living is fine. You can't find any happiness out there? You have to go looking for the negatives? There will be plenty of time for that as we get closer to February and depending upon how the season go. For now, go outside and smell the roses!
 
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:eek::eek:
Izo said:
According to ESPN

Espn's top 74 football athletes ,none to ND

Espn's top 69 cornerbacks , so far none listed to ND

ESPN's top 84 defensive ends ,so far none listed to ND

ESPN's top 70 defensive tackles , so far #24 Jayson Ademilola and #51 Ja'mion Franklin

ESPN 's top 31 inside linebackers,so far # 15 Matt Bauer

ESPN's top 61 outside linebackers ,so far #27 Justin Ademilola and #50 Ovie Oghoufon

ESPN's top 86 tackles,so far #40 Cole Mabry and # 50 John Dirksen

ESPN's top 54 safeties ,so far # 5 Derrick Allen

Realistically , this kind of recruiting in not going to challenge for any kind of a championship .

Also might have missed some recruits
Click to expand...

:eek: .... yikes: relax, recent history proves ND 'owns' Jan/Feb recruiting! Just wait!

Now I have to go get ready for my date tonight with 6 Supermodels!!!!!
 
We never finish as well as Alabamas, Clemsons, Ohio States , Florida States ,etc in February . Some of our commits will move up in the rankings , but how many difference makers?

Floyd ,Tate, Fuller, Rudolph , Eifert, Z. Martin ,Stanley, Watt ,Nelson Smith, Te'o,Okwara ,Prosise ,Day,Rochell, Jones , some ranked 4 ,like Russell, N. Martin ,McGlinchey, etc.

I see jayson Ademilola , Allen ,some of the tight ends as our top recruits and difference makers
 
Izo said:
According to ESPN

Espn's top 74 football athletes ,none to ND

Espn's top 69 cornerbacks , so far none listed to ND

ESPN's top 84 defensive ends ,so far none listed to ND

ESPN's top 70 defensive tackles , so far #24 Jayson Ademilola and #51 Ja'mion Franklin

ESPN 's top 31 inside linebackers,so far # 15 Matt Bauer

ESPN's top 61 outside linebackers ,so far #27 Justin Ademilola and #50 Ovie Oghoufon

ESPN's top 86 tackles,so far #40 Cole Mabry and # 50 John Dirksen

ESPN's top 54 safeties ,so far # 5 Derrick Allen

Realistically , this kind of recruiting in not going to challenge for any kind of a championship .

Also might have missed some recruits
Click to expand...
How is Sports Center at 6 doing? :D
 
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Izo said:
We never finish as well as Alabamas, Clemsons, Ohio States , Florida States ,etc in February . Some of our commits will move up in the rankings , but how many difference makers?

Floyd ,Tate, Fuller, Rudolph , Eifert, Z. Martin ,Stanley, Watt ,Nelson Smith, Te'o,Okwara ,Prosise ,Day,Rochell, Jones , some ranked 4 ,like Russell, N. Martin ,McGlinchey, etc.

I see jayson Ademilola , Allen ,some of the tight ends as our top recruits and difference makers
Click to expand...

So many things wrong with this. Do you know the quality of the players or just taking ESPN's word for it.

Let's just take Clemson, the defending national champion & runnerup the year before, for example.

Their starting defensive backfield was three 3 Stars & a 2 Star.
Their recruiting classes that comprised the two teams ('12, '13 & '14) had two complete classes with ZERO 5 Stars & the other produced one 5 Star starter.

As far as ND you are missing so much by looking at ESPN rankings.
Their were 166 kids (just over 100 from 2018 class) that were invited to the Opening. You know how many that ESPN ranks top 10 in their position that wasn't invited? A lot.
On the other hand kids earned their way there & did great who aren't top 10 at their position.

Mustipher was a top 10 DT according to recruiting services. Franklin was not even ranked a few months back. (Given 3 Stars recently). Franklin was easily better than Mustipher at the Opening & everyone saw it.

You should look at coaches big boards instead of ESPN. There is a kid Bama, OSU, ND, UM etc... are all going for who is 3 Stars on ESPN.

ND has a corner coming this weekend who very well could commit that the CB big board has a #2 ahead of guys with more Stars. He is definetely better than D Johnson who has 4 Stars (but not heavily recruited).

Tremble is another heavy ND lean that has 3 Stars but is valued way above that to the coaches recruiting him.

Simon is heavy ND lean who UM, OSU, PSU, UCLA, NU all are going at hard.

Austin is same as Simon above. Heavy ND lean & great talent.

I could name probably 10 more. (Bracy, Porter, Oweh, Booker, Petite, Wilkins, McKenzie, Bush, Ossai, Lamb,etc..) ND is still in a battle with.

This will be a top 10 class and if ND wins games, even better.
 
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Hold on, hold on. Just wait one gosh darn minute.....

Are you telling us to trust coaches opinions of players talent over that of the "star" system???

You sir, are just being silly. Peddle your nonsense elsewhere. :confused:
 
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South Bender said:
Hold on, hold on. Just wait one gosh darn minute.....

Are you telling us to trust coaches opinions of players talent over that of the "star" system???

You sir, are just being silly. Peddle your nonsense elsewhere. :confused:
Click to expand...

oh yea;
star system has done a pretty decent job of predicting the recent successful teams; and also the not so successful teams. The star system identifies those 'elite' prospects for the formulations of opinions by the coaching staffs.
The truth is any staff would recruit at the top of the recruiting rankings IF THEY COULD.
But everyone cannot 'get' commitment from the top players at every position. The star rankings are doing just fine.
Check recent NC's and playoff teams.
 
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Kelly needs to win 10 games to change his poor perception and attract recruits. If he goes 1-3 in the first four it will get worse until he's fired.
 
perseverare said:
oh yea;
star system has done a pretty decent job of predicting the recent successful teams; and also the not so successful teams. The star system identifies those 'elite' prospects for the formulations of opinions by the coaching staffs.
The truth is any staff would recruit at the top of the recruiting rankings IF THEY COULD.
But everyone cannot 'get' commitment from the top players at every position. The star rankings are doing just fine.
Check recent NC's and playoff teams.
Click to expand...
What a hoot. These so called star rankings are done for one reason and one reason only. to make money off folks foolish enough to waste money on them. End of story.
 
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South Bender said:
Hold on, hold on. Just wait one gosh darn minute.....

Are you telling us to trust coaches opinions of players talent over that of the "star" system???

You sir, are just being silly. Peddle your nonsense elsewhere. :confused:
Click to expand...
Some here actually think that coaching staffs decide on who to recruit based on some subjective internet sites star ratings . Bunch of suckers.
 
How many more 8-5 type seasons are we on for.? Right now Notre Dame 's recruiting class is ranked #2 behind Penn State . Watch how that changes at the start of football
 
^ head in the sand desease?

How about you list the most recent 12 National Champions and the 3 preceeding Recruiting rankings for those team?

and then tell the forum how the rankings of those recruiting classes were determined? by vote?

Excuses excuses..............excuses
 
Izo said:
According to ESPN

Espn's top 74 football athletes ,none to ND

Espn's top 69 cornerbacks , so far none listed to ND

ESPN's top 84 defensive ends ,so far none listed to ND

ESPN's top 70 defensive tackles , so far #24 Jayson Ademilola and #51 Ja'mion Franklin

ESPN 's top 31 inside linebackers,so far # 15 Matt Bauer

ESPN's top 61 outside linebackers ,so far #27 Justin Ademilola and #50 Ovie Oghoufon

ESPN's top 86 tackles,so far #40 Cole Mabry and # 50 John Dirksen

ESPN's top 54 safeties ,so far # 5 Derrick Allen

Realistically , this kind of recruiting in not going to challenge for any kind of a championship .

Also might have missed some recruits
Click to expand...

Using ESPN rankings makes this completely worthless and invalidates your point. As does posting this in July.

Try this again in December and do it with 247 Conposite rankings.

Your point will still Ben weak (rankings aren't all that great) but at least t wouldn't be completely worthless BS
 
perseverare said:
^ head in the sand desease?

How about you list the most recent 12 National Champions and the 3 preceeding Recruiting rankings for those team?

and then tell the forum how the rankings of those recruiting classes were determined? by vote?

Excuses excuses..............excuses
Click to expand...
perseverare said:
^ head in the sand desease?

How about you list the most recent 12 National Champions and the 3 preceeding Recruiting rankings for those team?

and then tell the forum how the rankings of those recruiting classes were determined? by vote?

Excuses excuses..............excuses
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone is saying the start system isn't accurate.

What we ARE saying is that it's not infallible or all-inclusive.

Coach "A" absolutely LOVES recruit "B". Outstanding film, outstanding athlete, outstanding student. The whole package. However, the kid seems to be flying under the radar and has only been given 3 stars. Is the coach with 20 years experience supposed to toss aside his gut feeling on this recruit and move on?? All because Scout or 24/7 have no interest in this kid?

The correct answer is HELL NO!! Star systems are great, but in the end it comes down to coaches.
 
^ your missing a lot of my offering !

My main point was it is a valuable tool! Not the only tool. Fans are fickle. J.A was given a big boost based upon camps and seeing him compete there. Then, the camps matter? The opportunity to get eyes on and watch a kid move and see a kid's reaction when in competition or just company of others as big and as fast, provides great insights.
And no one has disproved that the star system, paired with class rankings over a 3-4 year look back will identify those teams that will likely be contenders for major post season games and the NC.
 
Landing the top ranked recruits do not guarantee you a national championship or even a birth in one. What they guarantee you is that have the right tools do do the job well. The rest you have to take from there through coaching, development, etc, etc...

Think of it like any other profession. If Jordan Spieth and Dustin Johnson are going head-to-head at the Masters and one has Titleist's newest, most advanced irons, the newest generation Taylormade drive and top of the line ProV1 golf balls and the other has an entry level set of clubs and and a $20 case of balls, one has a decided advantage... Now that's not to say that on any given day the guy with the lesser tools couldn't beat the guy with better tools, but more times than not, the better tools will get you ahead if both players put in equal work.

Now look at coaches. You may have two very good, equally good at developing talent and equally gifted at motivating players and with the X's and O's, as well as game management of football, but one has let's say Chris Peterson's Boise State roster and the other has Urban Meyer's Ohio State roster... I think those guys are probably equally good coaches. While money is certainly a factor, the reason those guys left Utah and Boise State was because needed access to better tools (players) to get themselves over the top to win national titles.

Nobody is arguing that lesser players can't be developed into great players Nor is anyone arguing that recruiting services don't miss on prospects. We often forget that in order for a player to achieve a high rating, the burden is often on that player to put himself in the spotlight at combines and camps, as it's truly impossible for thousands of high school football players to be evaluated on film and in person, if they don't engage in the evaluation process. So, certainly, guys get missed all the time because they choose to focus on football, rather than being in the spotlight. Other guys are like Alohi Gilman, a kid that hit an exceptionally late growth spurt at 18 years olds and grew 3 inches in less than a year, giving him the necessary frame to add the weight needed to play at the next level. A kid like that gets ranked way higher if he has those measurables, to go along with his skill set, as a junior in high school. There are all kinds of variables.

Recruiting rankings a really good baseline. There is an undeniable correlation between the ranking systems and national championships, dating back for a number of years...

1. Recruiting
2. Development
3. Coaching
4. Team Chemistry
5. Health
6. Good Luck

Those are really the 6 pillars to winning a national title. Recruiting is as big a part of that equation as anything else. You need horses to win.
 
perseverare said:
^ your missing a lot of my offering !

My main point was it is a valuable tool! Not the only tool. Fans are fickle. J.A was given a big boost based upon camps and seeing him compete there. Then, the camps matter? The opportunity to get eyes on and watch a kid move and see a kid's reaction when in competition or just company of others as big and as fast, provides great insights.
And no one has disproved that the star system, paired with class rankings over a 3-4 year look back will identify those teams that will likely be contenders for major post season games and the NC.
Click to expand...
It hasn't been dis-proved, but it's been close. And very recently.
Michigan State was in the playoff a couple years ago. They are never near the top of any recruiting rankings. Washington last year.

Would we all love for Notre Dame to have the #1 recruiting class year after year? Yes. But to blindly say they will never win a national championship if they aren't in the "experts" top rankings is just wrong.

It can happen. Are the odds against a team who doesn't recruit top classes year after year? Yes they are. But it's not the end-all, be-all measuring stick.
 
South Bender said:
It hasn't been dis-proved, but it's been close. And very recently.
Michigan State was in the playoff a couple years ago. They are never near the top of any recruiting rankings. Washington last year.

Would we all love for Notre Dame to have the #1 recruiting class year after year? Yes. But to blindly say they will never win a national championship if they aren't in the "experts" top rankings is just wrong.

It can happen. Are the odds against a team who doesn't recruit top classes year after year? Yes they are. But it's not the end-all, be-all measuring stick.
Click to expand...


just do a chart! list the top 15 recruiting classes for the period 2004 to present
then highlight the teams that played for the NC or were playoff teams and then mark the NC.

If you do not see the relrvance then - your trying not to.
 
Two things. ESPN is the worst at ranking recruits. Second its July. SC's is going great and I barely look. Way too early.
 
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