I think--

[mmboys07]

I think:

1. Overall, this year's team is much improved. We will see how they hold up against the 2nd half of the schedule.

2. The biggest problem during Kelly's tenure is lack of player development, and player utilization. Is there even 1 QB that has started as a sophomore; played for 3 years and improved each year?

3. The running back situation has not been consistent either. I used to ask; who is going to be the group for the next couple of years; not anymore.

4. The key on defense the rest of the way will be how well the defense can pressure the better quarterbacks. WSU beat SC because they crushed the SC golden boy. They were in his face all night. They had 1 d tackle that lived in the backfield.

5. Assuming they beat NC. It will be interesting the rest of the way.

 

[zonairish]

Hard to disagree

 

[88ND]

While right with your points #2 is the most important and most glaring one.

I've said for years it's really bizarre how these players go from showing great potential in freshmen and sophomore years only to stay stagnant or disappear altogether.

Why is that.

You have to wonder. Aside from physically maturing nearly all BK players are better early in careers than later.

Bizarre to say the least. It's almost like he takes what they've learned from pee wee and high school and by year three with him he has all the good basic football 101 skill set right out the window they learned from earlier coaching.

I don't know what it is but there is no doubt most players under BK are better early in career.

When the hype starts about fifty year this or four year starter...it doesn't excite me because that players good days are behind them at south bend.

 

[chaseball]

While right with your points #2 is the most important and most glaring one.

I've said for years it's really bizarre how these players go from showing great potential in freshmen and sophomore years only to stay stagnant or disappear altogether.

Why is that.

You have to wonder. Aside from physically maturing nearly all BK players are better early in careers than later.

Bizarre to say the least. It's almost like he takes what they've learned from pee wee and high school and by year three with him he has all the good basic football 101 skill set right out the window they learned from earlier coaching.

I don't know what it is but there is no doubt most players under BK are better early in career.

When the hype starts about fifty year this or four year starter...it doesn't excite me because that players good days are behind them at south bend.

let's not get carried away here

BK has many weaknesses/has earned a ton of criticism during his ND tenure, but talent development is not one of them; in fact, i would go as far to say it's one of his biggest strengths.

For any example you can give me of a guy who came in and stagnated/regressed, I can give you 2 that did the opposite.

 

[88ND]

let's not get carried away here

BK has many weaknesses/has earned a ton of criticism during his ND tenure, but talent development is not one of them; in fact, i would go as far to say it's one of his biggest strengths.

For any example you can give me of a guy who came in and stagnated/regressed, I can give you 2 that did the opposite.

I'll take that bet.
Remember what I said... Clearly...

Outside of physically maturing. In other words becoming men...please show me examples where technique, fundamentals, etc progressed with each year. Ball skills. Route running. Hell even QB play. Can you say Kizer was better last year than two years ago? How about Golson? You telling me he was better every year after twelve? No, you can't. Truth is he was better in twelve. Kizer was better when he came in subbing for Zaire than the succeeding year. Now this is just QB but certainly one position in which you'd put your absolute best effort in getting the player to progress. If no other position you'd sell the house to get more polished experienced QB play.

Except magically it doesn't happen under BK.

So yeah I'll take your challenge all day long.

Your turn.

 

[chaseball]

Guys who progressed/exceeded expectations off the top of my head:

CJ Prosise, Sheldon Day, Kapron Lewis Moore, Manti Teo, Bennet Jackson, Kavarae Russell, Danny Spond, Will Fuller, Michael Floyd, TJ Jones, Zack Martin, Ronnie Stanley, Zeke Motta, Stephon Tuitt, Harrison Smith, Chris Watt, Nick Martin, Tyler Eifert, Kyle Rudolph, Drue Tranquill, Prince Shembo, Mike McGlinchey, Quenton Nelson, Tommy Rees, Greer Martini, Romeo Okwara, Louis Nix, Theo Riddick, etc. etc. etc.

ND has put more guys in the NFL during the BK era than at any other point since Lou Holtz ... BK is excellent at identifying and developing talent ... you can list off many things he doesn't do well .. but developing guys/maximizing the talent he's able to recruit is not one of them.

 

[88ND]

Guys who progressed/exceeded expectations off the top of my head:

CJ Prosise, Sheldon Day, Kapron Lewis Moore, Manti Teo, Bennet Jackson, Kavarae Russell, Danny Spond, Will Fuller, Michael Floyd, TJ Jones, Zack Martin, Ronnie Stanley, Zeke Motta, Stephon Tuitt, Harrison Smith, Chris Watt, Nick Martin, Tyler Eifert, Kyle Rudolph, Drue Tranquill, Prince Shembo, Mike McGlinchey, Quenton Nelson, Tommy Rees, Greer Martini, Romeo Okwara, Louis Nix, Theo Riddick, etc. etc. etc.

ND has put more guys in the NFL during the BK era than at any other point since Lou Holtz ... BK is excellent at identifying and developing talent ... you can list off many things he doesn't do well .. but developing guys/maximizing the talent he's able to recruit is not one of them.

That's the most ridiculous argument on this topic.

Your list is hilarious.

Those players you listed were going pro regardless. They would have been drafted anyway. Amazing you can't see that.

Let's take Tuitt. You really think the Pro's would have skipped on a monster of a human with cat like feet? Seriously....
Your list is so very distorted. It's become S thene that BK players had better years earlier in career than late including Tuitt.
Tuitt was better as a sophomore than a junior.

BK is recruiting better than anytime since Holtz I agree....

But please don't make it like he's some magician.

 

[Irish Grandeur]

let's not get carried away here

BK has many weaknesses/has earned a ton of criticism during his ND tenure, but talent development is not one of them; in fact, i would go as far to say it's one of his biggest strengths.

For any example you can give me of a guy who came in and stagnated/regressed, I can give you 2 that did the opposite.

I agree that he has always developed the talent at ND. However, he has done less with the talent he has developed than any coach I've ever seen (barring this year). It always amazed me how 6-10 players would get drafted to the NFL and ND would go 8-4. His CEO role this year seems to be paying off - not a ton of talent but the assistants are squeezing the most out of them on the field.

 

[chaseball]

I agree that he has always developed the talent at ND. However, he has done less with the talent he has developed than any coach I've ever seen (barring this year). It always amazed me how 6-10 players would get drafted to the NFL and ND would go 8-4. His CEO role this year seems to be paying off - not a ton of talent but the assistants are squeezing the most out of them on the field.

This is a recruiting problem, not a talent development problem IMO.

ND has a handful of guys at the top of their roster that can hang with anybody ... it's the lack of depth that has been this team's achilles heel.

We also can't discount all of the roster attrition every off season the last several years either. Major suspensions/injuries/academics have crippled the team's 2 deep.

BK has been exceptional at developing talent .. he's been pretty mediocre as a recruiter overall though. ESPECIALLY on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[Irish Grandeur]

This is a recruiting problem, not a talent development problem IMO.

ND has a handful of guys at the top of their roster that can hang with anybody ... it's the lack of depth that has been this team's achilles heel.

We also can't discount all of the roster attrition every off season the last several years either. Major suspensions/injuries/academics have crippled the team's 2 deep.

BK has been exceptional at developing talent .. he's been pretty mediocre as a recruiter overall though. ESPECIALLY on the defensive side of the ball.

I disagree that it's a recruiting problem. ND has not lived up to their recruit ranking under Kelly even though they have sent tons of players to the NFL. Unless I am mistaken, ND holds the longest streak in the NCAA with a player drafted each year.

Of his 85 scholarship players on the roster at any given time they are (roughly) a top 20 class. Sure, developing depth is a problem and that is why I am liking this year as much as I am. He's getting true freshmen playing time at an unprecedented level. That in itself will get ND to the next level. And, it will impress recruits looking at ND.

The last time ND ND lived up to its recruited class level was in 2012 when ND and Alabama went 1 and 2 for the 2012 graduating class.

 

[mmboys07]

Guys who progressed/exceeded expectations off the top of my head:

CJ Prosise, Sheldon Day, Kapron Lewis Moore, Manti Teo, Bennet Jackson, Kavarae Russell, Danny Spond, Will Fuller, Michael Floyd, TJ Jones, Zack Martin, Ronnie Stanley, Zeke Motta, Stephon Tuitt, Harrison Smith, Chris Watt, Nick Martin, Tyler Eifert, Kyle Rudolph, Drue Tranquill, Prince Shembo, Mike McGlinchey, Quenton Nelson, Tommy Rees, Greer Martini, Romeo Okwara, Louis Nix, Theo Riddick, etc. etc. etc.

ND has put more guys in the NFL during the BK era than at any other point since Lou Holtz ... BK is excellent at identifying and developing talent ... you can list off many things he doesn't do well .. but developing guys/maximizing the talent he's able to recruit is not one of them.

Tommy Rees?????????????????????????

 

[88ND]

BK has been exceptional at developing talent ..

This statement right here is utterly absurd.

You have this backwards. He's a damn decent recruiter and by far the best since Lou....

But developing players...ummmmm


Are you out of your ****ing mind?

I've seen many players get called into action due to an injury and they look lost. A deer in headlights.

Now you think it's because BK doesn't recruit depth.

While I see the most basic of football skills lacking from the player just entering.

Simple things like a breakdown for a tackle. Angles, Christ we've had years our starters don't know a proper pursuit angle.

It's was ****ing embarrassing to be honest.

Thankfully things are looking like a football team again. We shall see....

But player development is NOT BK strong suit what so ever.

Exactly why when asked how many of our guys could start for Bama...i answered well do our players get coaching from the bama staff too? Because then yes we have a few.