Here's a great article by Dan Wetzel of Yahoo.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/if-not...t-blame-its-independent-status-002901114.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/if-not...t-blame-its-independent-status-002901114.html
Great Yahoo article on why "ND must join a conference" talk is dumb
- Thread starter Bumpdaddy
- Start date
Like where we are .No conference affiliation .College landscape might change in a few years , but keep independent for now .
We are the only maverick team of big time college football . I like that. We are the royalty no matter, even in our off years . We get the best effort from our opponents .We are tradition
Isn't there a possibility that that the final 4 expands to 8 teams ? It might be a little more difficult to get a berth now ,but that can change with expansion.
We are the only maverick team of big time college football . I like that. We are the royalty no matter, even in our off years . We get the best effort from our opponents .We are tradition
Isn't there a possibility that that the final 4 expands to 8 teams ? It might be a little more difficult to get a berth now ,but that can change with expansion.
"tradition"..........got it.
However, "royalty"............matter of perception.
IMHO, in CFB there are worthy champions..........but, "royalty" doesn't fit athletic competition. Misplaced adjective or "tongue in cheek" at it's best. Interesting comment though and not at all unexpected.
However, "royalty"............matter of perception.
IMHO, in CFB there are worthy champions..........but, "royalty" doesn't fit athletic competition. Misplaced adjective or "tongue in cheek" at it's best. Interesting comment though and not at all unexpected.
I have to admit that years ago I was in favor of ND joining the B1G. I am a lifelong ND fan but never really understood the history very well as to why ND valued its independence so much. My thinking has now gone 180 to the point that I felt ND gave up way too much to align with the ACC. I really like what Swarbrick and BK have brought to ND which has revitalized the Irish spirit.
Good article. And I'm not saying he is more right than I am wrong.
But listening to what the playoff committee and the pundits and the reporters by and large report today. That 13th game is important.
Florida. A no one this year. Which is actually over achieving on a first year head coach and regressing offense is still in the play off discussion. Why do you say?
Because they locked up the east. All they need is to beat the west champion in the SEC championship game. And I promise you they are fighting for the 4th spot.
If ND were to join the ACC (the most obvious choice under the current parameters) if they rearrange the divisions to make them a bit more competitive. Or ND gets the ACC to invite Navy as a member. ND could play a conference schedule (they were only 2 games short of that this year) still play USC and Navy. And end the season with a 13th game against almost always a top 25 opponent on a neutral field.
And here's the thing. Everyone else isn't going to stop doing their conference championships. So say whatever you want. But the image of ND not playing a 13th game hurts it. No matter the 'strength of the schedule'
But listening to what the playoff committee and the pundits and the reporters by and large report today. That 13th game is important.
Florida. A no one this year. Which is actually over achieving on a first year head coach and regressing offense is still in the play off discussion. Why do you say?
Because they locked up the east. All they need is to beat the west champion in the SEC championship game. And I promise you they are fighting for the 4th spot.
If ND were to join the ACC (the most obvious choice under the current parameters) if they rearrange the divisions to make them a bit more competitive. Or ND gets the ACC to invite Navy as a member. ND could play a conference schedule (they were only 2 games short of that this year) still play USC and Navy. And end the season with a 13th game against almost always a top 25 opponent on a neutral field.
And here's the thing. Everyone else isn't going to stop doing their conference championships. So say whatever you want. But the image of ND not playing a 13th game hurts it. No matter the 'strength of the schedule'
You could add Hawaii on the road every year. Replace playing UMass or Rice with that game. That at least would give you a 13th game.
ND doesn't play Rice and UMASS in the same year (neither are on the 2016 schedule). Replacing a team wouldn't give ND a 13th game. It would only be a different 12th game. That comment is further proof that little skunk fans only bring down the boards overall IQ.
It's more about the SoS rather than just playing 13 games. Typically, a divisional winner in a conference will be ranked.
I think you are correct, even a lot of the old time ND faithful don't want to hear this. I can even see where you think its not best for ND but the real question is whats best for college football. Its not about money for ND because clearly you have plenty of that. Its not even about scheduling, you will always attempt to have a good schedule even though it didn't work out for you this year.
It is about this college football is going to pair down the number of teams that are competing at the Power conference level. I believe they will also try to get to 4 conferences initially and you will have instead of just 2 teams in each league play for a CCG, it wil be expanded to 4 teams and going to conference semi-finals which go to a CCG, this essentially gives a 16 team playoff where the 4 teams advance to the CFP. This would eliminate all the picking/ choosing and "selecting" of teams, it would all be played out on the field. Ironically some think after that if maybe those 4 leagues may break down into 8 smaller conferences more regional in nature under one college body, where tv negotiations are taken care of by one organization for the whole body because they feel they can negotiate more money this way(I'm not so sure). Either way the playoffs will probably go thru conference champions.
I'm not here to start a debate why ND fans don't like this but I think college football is on a path to do this.
In a system decided by a human factor, 'perception' is going to be important.
ND going into this week (obviously it will go up no matter what) has the number 29 SoS. Which isn't terrible. But isn't far off from Clemson, MSU and others. Alabama still has the 8th somehow. Still don't understand that, but oh well.
Those 4 spots have no rules in how they 'have' to be chosen. What the playoff committee has stated they will use for it is:
the body of work, vs 1 game here and there
injuries
and conference champions
While I agree it would be stupid for ND to give up the indy badge to join a conference that doesn't currently have, or plan to have a conference championship game. I think it is just as short sighted for many ND fans to just hang out hope that there might one day be an expanded playoff. When the only talk about that has been in the media and on message boards. And not from the playoff committee.
As always it is 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. For the record I have always preferred ND as an Indy. I just don't think it is possible moving forward. Because once ND has a loss anywhere on that schedule they are out of control of their destiny until other teams mess up their schedules.
ND going into this week (obviously it will go up no matter what) has the number 29 SoS. Which isn't terrible. But isn't far off from Clemson, MSU and others. Alabama still has the 8th somehow. Still don't understand that, but oh well.
Those 4 spots have no rules in how they 'have' to be chosen. What the playoff committee has stated they will use for it is:
the body of work, vs 1 game here and there
injuries
and conference champions
While I agree it would be stupid for ND to give up the indy badge to join a conference that doesn't currently have, or plan to have a conference championship game. I think it is just as short sighted for many ND fans to just hang out hope that there might one day be an expanded playoff. When the only talk about that has been in the media and on message boards. And not from the playoff committee.
As always it is 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. For the record I have always preferred ND as an Indy. I just don't think it is possible moving forward. Because once ND has a loss anywhere on that schedule they are out of control of their destiny until other teams mess up their schedules.
No dopey. Replace a cupcake game (Rice, UMass, Tulsa, are EXAMPLES) with a Hawaii away game. That would allow you to have add a tough team for a 13th game (the NCAA has a rule that if you play Hawaii away, you can add a 13th game). And if you add a good team that will give you a 13 game SOS that should match up with that of a ACC, PAC or Big Ten champion.
Ok, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
No offense but your a dying breed and you want to hold onto an old tradition that does nothing but make college football the equivalent to judging figure skating or gymnastics.
Having A 13th game is not going to be the overriding issue most years. Whether it is stated out loud clearly or not, the issue will be the committee will look to take conference champions and will not devalue the value of winning a conference championship by giving ND a pass(like it or not). The committee is made up people with alliances to different conferences and conference championships will matter. They are not probably going to publicly state ND you are excluded but its going to be a lot harder to get in and I believe will typically have to have 1 less loss than the conference champions unless they have beaten that champion they are competing with that year. ND is already making it harder on itself by having a scheduling arrangement with what is considered the weakest conference overall even if they have one undefeated team like Clemson or FSU having a great season.
Ok, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
No offense but your a dying breed and you want to hold onto an old tradition that does nothing but make college football the equivalent to judging figure skating or gymnastics.
If that's the future, the future sucks.
What you want is basically a post-season that is WWE like in deciding staged match ups for the end of the season so they can choose the teams and matchups they desire.
No, what I want is what we have now. It, or a variation of it, has worked well for decades. You are the one who seems to like how the NFL does it.
Win5002 - the CFP wants to pit the best teams in a playoff. What your scenario allows, and what I believe the CFP establishment DOESN'T want, are scenarios where playoff participants get in through average performance in a weak division and then an upset. What if USC beats UCLA, then wins the PAC12? What if UNC beats Clemson? Would you expect those teams to make the playoffs? I think the idea of automatic conference qualifiers will always be a turn-off for college football because of this, and there will always be a "committee" of some sort picking the participants. Following 78's thoughts, nobody in the NFL gets real excited when a team wins its division with a losing record and makes the playoffs.
Also - look at the fact that the current system is pushing teams to schedule harder, something ND has always done. In an automatic qualifying situation, there is ZERO incentive to schedule any meaningful non-conference games anymore. ZERO. None of these things I mention are "good for college football". Also, I can't see the FBS (Division I) adopting a "qualifying" system to reach the playoffs that does not include ALL FBS conferences without a lawsuit or some restructuring what we currently call FBS. I am still astounded that they get away with herding the "Group of 5" conferences into one neat and tidy New Years Day bowl game slot.
As for a 13th game for ND - I can't see this happening without a TON of pushback for reasons nobody ever seems to consider: Only 2 teams from any conference get the 13th game - the rest of the conference doesn't. ND getting its own 13th game EVERY season for no other reason than we are ND would be perceived as more ND bias, unfair, and I would expect most other programs and fan bases would add it to the list of things to cry about.
Also - look at the fact that the current system is pushing teams to schedule harder, something ND has always done. In an automatic qualifying situation, there is ZERO incentive to schedule any meaningful non-conference games anymore. ZERO. None of these things I mention are "good for college football". Also, I can't see the FBS (Division I) adopting a "qualifying" system to reach the playoffs that does not include ALL FBS conferences without a lawsuit or some restructuring what we currently call FBS. I am still astounded that they get away with herding the "Group of 5" conferences into one neat and tidy New Years Day bowl game slot.
As for a 13th game for ND - I can't see this happening without a TON of pushback for reasons nobody ever seems to consider: Only 2 teams from any conference get the 13th game - the rest of the conference doesn't. ND getting its own 13th game EVERY season for no other reason than we are ND would be perceived as more ND bias, unfair, and I would expect most other programs and fan bases would add it to the list of things to cry about.
I don't think you could be more wrong about non-conference matchups. If it the path is completely through winning the conference why wouldn't a team want to schedule a better non-conference schedule to test and prepare its team because its only about winning the conference that matters?
You bring up the idea that maybe a 4 loss team wins a conference, I say big deal. That won't happen a lot and probably won't this year but what we can go through a lot of the years through college football and finding a lesser brand with the same record as someone that was selected for the championship game or now the playoffs.
A lot of people that want to keep the current system are because they come from blue blood schools that get advantages and the benefit of the doubt when up against a school that doesn't have as much brand value. Although, I think that advantage has passed ND as long as they try and go the independent route.
No, a lot of people want to keep CFB the way it is, because the NFL already exists and it sucks.
Actually if you check the ratings usually Sunday Night football is the top rated tv show each week. Even Thursday night football finished 2nd in the week I saw. You want to make the case the most popular league/sport in America is doing it wrong, lol.
It seems to me you like to set up straw man arguments on the other side to conveniently shoot them down. There really aren't many people, blue blood fans or not, who like the conference champion automatic bid model over a best teams model. If the current Power 5 conferences thought that was the best model then they would have lobbied for an 8 team playoff from the start so that they could make sure none of their champions would be left out. They didn't do that and I don't know of any conference leaders who have ever thought the "best teams" model wasn't the best approach.
Similar threads
