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For those of you who wanted Johnson as coach: The Triple Option in today's game

notredamerises23

ND Expert
Sep 3, 2011
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You cannot reliably win enough in today's game against top competition playing Johnson's game. Aside from the fact that great great physicality and athleticism beats this execution reliant offense, there is sound logic that tells us why people abandoned this archaic offense.

1) You have to play perfectly (no holding or chop blocks or fumbles at all) and if you do, you'll be difficult to defeat BUT if you don't, you will not consistently defeat elite teams that have greater room for error, more paths to victory, and greater variation toleration and can hedge better against bad luck.

2) If you get down in the game, coming back is so difficult. A team that can throw the ball has more paths to victory. If you're running this option, your path to victory is to play well throughout and play with the lead. There is NO stealing games (in which you do nothing most of the game but get hot for a quarter) with this offense and hence, fewer paths to victory. Why limit your paths to victory? This offense doesn't allow for much adversity, bad luck, etc. An offense that can throw the ball can hedge against bad luck better.

3) It is very difficult to run a two minute offense with this offense. At the end of the first half, ND didn't worry at all about throwing incomplete passes and having to punt back to GT with about a minute left on the clock because GT cannot throw it. ND could be very aggressive with the ball without fear of stopping he clock and having to punt. GT's inability to throw took pressure off of ND in that situation at the end of the half; sure, Jones fumbled in that situation but that was a player error and had nothing to do with system. As for the end of the game, ND played an ultra cushion defense that didn't mean anything.

TL;DR: The triple option is great if you play perfectly but not so much if you don't. You want an offense that hedges against as much bad luck/mistakes as possible and the triple option is not that offense.
 
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You cannot reliably win enough in today's game against top competition playing Johnson's game. Aside from the fact that great great physicality and athleticism beats this execution reliant offense, there is sound logic that tells us why people abandoned this archaic offense.

1) You have to play perfectly (no holding or chop blocks or fumbles at all) and if you do, you'll be difficult to defeat BUT if you don't, you will not consistently defeat elite teams that have greater room for error, more paths to victory, and greater variation toleration and can hedge better against bad luck.

2) If you get down in the game, coming back is so difficult. A team that can throw the ball has more paths to victory. If you're running this option, your path to victory is to play well throughout and play with the lead. There is NO stealing games (in which you do nothing most of the game but get hot for a quarter) with this offense and hence, fewer paths to victory. Why limit your paths to victory? This offense doesn't allow for much adversity, bad luck, etc. An offense that can throw the ball can hedge against bad luck better.

3) It is very difficult to run a two minute offense with this offense. At the end of the first half, ND didn't worry at all about throwing incomplete passes and having to punt back to GT with about a minute left on the clock because GT cannot throw it. ND could be very aggressive with the ball without fear of stopping he clock and having to punt. GT's inability to throw took pressure off of ND in that situation at the end of the half; sure, Jones fumbled in that situation but that was a player error and had nothing to do with system. As for the end of the game, ND played an ultra cushion defense that didn't mean anything.

TL;DR: The triple option is great if you play perfectly but not so much if you don't. You want an offense that hedges against as much bad luck/mistakes as possible and the triple option is not that offense.


I agree and GT couldn't over come their poor kicking game and ND defense combined. No different than a high flying offense keeping up with another high flying offense with no defense.
 
I agree and GT couldn't over come their poor kicking game and ND defense combined. No different than a high flying offense keeping up with another high flying offense with no defense.

No, I'm speaking specifically to why this scenario would play out over and over again given a large enough sample size. You have to play perfectly to defeat another good team and that rarely happens.

Kicking game? It was 450 yards to 230 before the gimmes at the end.
 
No, I'm speaking specifically to why this scenario would play out over and over again given a large enough sample size. You have to play perfectly to defeat another good team and that rarely happens.

Kicking game? It was 450 yards to 230 before the gimmes at the end.


What I'm saying is Coach Johnson couldn't count on his kicking game. That puts his offense in a bind especially since NDs defense came to play. It was TD's or nothing.. I don't care what style of offense you run. If you can not count on the kicking game for points then sure it's hard to win.

Wasn't ND in the same situation not too long age?
 
You cannot reliably win enough in today's game against top competition playing Johnson's game. Aside from the fact that great great physicality and athleticism beats this execution reliant offense, there is sound logic that tells us why people abandoned this archaic offense.

1) You have to play perfectly (no holding or chop blocks or fumbles at all) and if you do, you'll be difficult to defeat BUT if you don't, you will not consistently defeat elite teams that have greater room for error, more paths to victory, and greater variation toleration and can hedge better against bad luck.

2) If you get down in the game, coming back is so difficult. A team that can throw the ball has more paths to victory. If you're running this option, your path to victory is to play well throughout and play with the lead. There is NO stealing games (in which you do nothing most of the game but get hot for a quarter) with this offense and hence, fewer paths to victory. Why limit your paths to victory? This offense doesn't allow for much adversity, bad luck, etc. An offense that can throw the ball can hedge against bad luck better.

3) It is very difficult to run a two minute offense with this offense. At the end of the first half, ND didn't worry at all about throwing incomplete passes and having to punt back to GT with about a minute left on the clock because GT cannot throw it. ND could be very aggressive with the ball without fear of stopping he clock and having to punt. GT's inability to throw took pressure off of ND in that situation at the end of the half; sure, Jones fumbled in that situation but that was a player error and had nothing to do with system. As for the end of the game, ND played an ultra cushion defense that didn't mean anything.

TL;DR: The triple option is great if you play perfectly but not so much if you don't. You want an offense that hedges against as much bad luck/mistakes as possible and the triple option is not that offense.

I like Kelly, always have, but I personally think Johnson would be a great coach at ND as well. He has won at programs that don't get big time players so imagine what he could do at a better school? As I said, I like Kelly but if Johnson gets a job at bigger program he will do great like he has with GT.

Also remember the last NC our program won was with the option so it is kind of hard to knock it since it has been 27 years and counting. Holtz though was such a great coach because he adapted to his players and could coach different styles, but he definitely preferred some type of option attack in his game plan.
 
GT last year beat Georgia, pounded Miss State, and was unstoppable vs. FSU. The flexbone offense is pain to defend. They just didn't play well today.
 
I don't think it was a case of GT not playing well today, but rather a case of our defense attacking them and shutting them down all day except for that last minute or so of the game. by shutting GT down all game our offensive got a lot more scoring opportunities and good field position.
 
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I don't think it was a case of GT not playing well today, but rather a case of our defense attacking them and shutting them down all day except for that last minute or so of the game. by shutting GT down all game our offensive got a lot more scoring opportunities and good field position.

I think it was a bit of both to be honest. I'll have a better idea when I cam watch the replay.
 
You cannot reliably win enough in today's game against top competition playing Johnson's game. Aside from the fact that great great physicality and athleticism beats this execution reliant offense, there is sound logic that tells us why people abandoned this archaic offense.

1) You have to play perfectly (no holding or chop blocks or fumbles at all) and if you do, you'll be difficult to defeat BUT if you don't, you will not consistently defeat elite teams that have greater room for error, more paths to victory, and greater variation toleration and can hedge better against bad luck.

2) If you get down in the game, coming back is so difficult. A team that can throw the ball has more paths to victory. If you're running this option, your path to victory is to play well throughout and play with the lead. There is NO stealing games (in which you do nothing most of the game but get hot for a quarter) with this offense and hence, fewer paths to victory. Why limit your paths to victory? This offense doesn't allow for much adversity, bad luck, etc. An offense that can throw the ball can hedge against bad luck better.

3) It is very difficult to run a two minute offense with this offense. At the end of the first half, ND didn't worry at all about throwing incomplete passes and having to punt back to GT with about a minute left on the clock because GT cannot throw it. ND could be very aggressive with the ball without fear of stopping he clock and having to punt. GT's inability to throw took pressure off of ND in that situation at the end of the half; sure, Jones fumbled in that situation but that was a player error and had nothing to do with system. As for the end of the game, ND played an ultra cushion defense that didn't mean anything.

TL;DR: The triple option is great if you play perfectly but not so much if you don't. You want an offense that hedges against as much bad luck/mistakes as possible and the triple option is not that offense.
Notre Dame showed a lot to a ton of doubters today ! If they can clear UMASS and then Clemson, watch out ! Gotta stop the crazy injury bug situation, (lost Tranquill today ) otherwise this team is showing a great resolve ! GO IRISH !
 
You cannot reliably win enough in today's game against top competition playing Johnson's game. Aside from the fact that great great physicality and athleticism beats this execution reliant offense, there is sound logic that tells us why people abandoned this archaic offense.

1) You have to play perfectly (no holding or chop blocks or fumbles at all) and if you do, you'll be difficult to defeat BUT if you don't, you will not consistently defeat elite teams that have greater room for error, more paths to victory, and greater variation toleration and can hedge better against bad luck.

2) If you get down in the game, coming back is so difficult. A team that can throw the ball has more paths to victory. If you're running this option, your path to victory is to play well throughout and play with the lead. There is NO stealing games (in which you do nothing most of the game but get hot for a quarter) with this offense and hence, fewer paths to victory. Why limit your paths to victory? This offense doesn't allow for much adversity, bad luck, etc. An offense that can throw the ball can hedge against bad luck better.

3) It is very difficult to run a two minute offense with this offense. At the end of the first half, ND didn't worry at all about throwing incomplete passes and having to punt back to GT with about a minute left on the clock because GT cannot throw it. ND could be very aggressive with the ball without fear of stopping he clock and having to punt. GT's inability to throw took pressure off of ND in that situation at the end of the half; sure, Jones fumbled in that situation but that was a player error and had nothing to do with system. As for the end of the game, ND played an ultra cushion defense that didn't mean anything.

TL;DR: The triple option is great if you play perfectly but not so much if you don't. You want an offense that hedges against as much bad luck/mistakes as possible and the triple option is not that offense.


Triple option came in with Texas and Oklahoma in the 60s and and was gone by the mid-70s. Everyone was pass happy in the mid 80s with the rise of Miami. What happens? Holtz wins a national championship with the option in 88 and then for the next few years, Colorado, Nebraska and others win titles or have much success.

It strikes me as cyclical, with some changes update it. You could argue that the read option is just a looser version of the triple option.

Same with Stanford. Some of the more obnoxious posters on this site say Stanford sucks. Last I looked they were up 10 on USC in the fourth. Doesn't mean they'll win it, but they have 38 points on the board.
 
Notre Dame showed a lot to a ton of doubters today ! If they can clear UMASS and then Clemson, watch out ! Gotta stop the crazy injury bug situation, (lost Tranquill today ) otherwise this team is showing a great resolve ! GO IRISH !


By doubters do you mean those who believe a good defense and strong running game can lead ND far?

We already knew that.
 
I like Kelly, always have, but I personally think Johnson would be a great coach at ND as well. He has won at programs that don't get big time players so imagine what he could do at a better school? As I said, I like Kelly but if Johnson gets a job at bigger program he will do great like he has with GT.

Also remember the last NC our program won was with the option so it is kind of hard to knock it since it has been 27 years and counting. Holtz though was such a great coach because he adapted to his players and could coach different styles, but he definitely preferred some type of option attack in his game plan.
disagree to some extent. lou should have never went after ron powlus. he went completely against what he believed in with that nonsense "blarney" offense and it showed. I understand why he HAD to go after powlus but it was never a good fit.
 
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disagree to some extent. lou should have never went after ron powlus. he went completely against what he believed in with that nonsense "blarney" offense and it showed. I understand why he HAD to go after powlus but it was never a good fit.


Wow

The ol' blarney offense.

Yup I couldn't agree more, but if there was a coach who can switch systems w/o missing a beat it's coach Patterson.

To see what he did last season with an offense he never used before was impressive. Like coach Kelly he can get coordinators for what he wants to do.
 
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