this class is rolling and gaining momentum. Recruits are taking notice. It sounds like many, many want to be a part of this very special class. Already ranked #2, this class could easily end up #1 overall. Big, big stuff.
Finish as #1 Class?
- Thread starter NotreDame du Lac
- Start date
Don't think we'll get enough borderline 5 stars, plus bama hasn't gotten rolling yet
Much too early , yet ! A great season will really help to attract top recruits and solidify this class !
Highly unlikely as a program like Bama/OSU/USC will close strong and finish with like 5 5*'s but if ND can keep this up and finish with all plan A guys and a top 5ish class it'll be a tremendous success. 8-4 probably keeps that going. 10-2 and better and to start talking about getting those late 5's.
Won't happen. ND won't take enough players to finish with enough points to be #1. ND doesn't have enough juniors leave for the draft, nor does it process players on its roster, meaning only rarely take the amount of volume, combined with quality that it takes to reel in a number 1 class. My guess is that whoever finishes ranked #1 this year will have 26+ in their class. I'm thrilled if ND finished top 7 and filled it's needs.
Well we agree but took much different paths to get to our thoughts. If you're talking rivals they only take the top 20 commits into acct in their rankings so really as long as we take 20 we are at no disadvantage, you don't get bonus pts for taking more. It's also unlikely we take a specialist so in theory no reason to think we can't be #1, we won't be but not because of class size.
well^ currently (or at weeks start) there were ~ 12 teams recruiting at a talent level rated higher.
And, we read these top5 threads every year up till about April. ND is off to a good start, that is considering the state of the program! If this was before the demise this would be the 'expected'. But, the bar, the bar gets moved, lower lower lower: it is sooo much easier to be 'happier' now.
Most who follow recruiting are aware there are a group of top propects that hold out till late in the cycle and that is when the standings start to shuffle.
It is how you finish that matters. Are you finishing like USC? like FSU? tOSU? UM? UGA? Clemson? UT?
... or like Minn Iowa or Purdue?
And, we read these top5 threads every year up till about April. ND is off to a good start, that is considering the state of the program! If this was before the demise this would be the 'expected'. But, the bar, the bar gets moved, lower lower lower: it is sooo much easier to be 'happier' now.
Most who follow recruiting are aware there are a group of top propects that hold out till late in the cycle and that is when the standings start to shuffle.
It is how you finish that matters. Are you finishing like USC? like FSU? tOSU? UM? UGA? Clemson? UT?
... or like Minn Iowa or Purdue?
I would say the Kelly minnions have been very effective in reordering the thinking of the 'simple minded'; but sophisticated knowledgeable fans are more apt to retain standards and take a 'wait n see' attitude.
So Simple ponder that. Brain washed or brain dead?
Not surprising that those trying to create this 'hype' that the return to glory is imminent are all ID's created recent or at minimum post Kelly. Where are the long time fans? driven off?
So Simple ponder that. Brain washed or brain dead?
Not surprising that those trying to create this 'hype' that the return to glory is imminent are all ID's created recent or at minimum post Kelly. Where are the long time fans? driven off?
Last edited:
As always. ..The black cloud rears his ugly, miserable head.
Are you kidding ? #1 class in 2018. ? Alabama ,Ohio State , etc always finish with lot of 5- star commits in February .And if you look at top uncommitted 100 high school stars . most don't even have ND on their radar and have listed SEC , ACC , PAC 12 as the schools that they looking at.
I just hope there are no defections and we keep are early 11 commits and add a few quality defensive linemen
I just hope there are no defections and we keep are early 11 commits and add a few quality defensive linemen
ND has legit shot at the following composite current top 100 players, and fringe top 100 players who I feel likely could be in the top 100 by season's end...
#8 OL Jamaree Salyer
#18 WR Amon-Ra St. Brown
#28 QB Phil Jurkovec (committed)
#29 RB TJ Pledger
#34 WR Brian Hightower
#36 CB Brendan Radley-Hiles
#46 WR Kamryn Babb
#47 CB Houston Griffith
#51 S Derrik Allen (committed)
#63 DT PJ Mustipher
#65 WR Jahan Dotson
#67 TE Jeremy Ruckert
#78 OL Tommy Brown
#81 WR Josh Moore
#87 TE Mustapha Muhammad
#108 LB Dax Hollifield
#111 DT Tommy Togiai
#115 WR Chase Williams
#116 LB Dallas Gant
Of those 19 players I listed (including 2 currently committed) ND would probably be pumped to land 5 of them, meaning they land 3 more... Any more than that would be greatly over achieving relative to ND'S normal standard of recruiting... 5, top 100 recruits would all but assure ND a top 10 class and like top 8.
#8 OL Jamaree Salyer
#18 WR Amon-Ra St. Brown
#28 QB Phil Jurkovec (committed)
#29 RB TJ Pledger
#34 WR Brian Hightower
#36 CB Brendan Radley-Hiles
#46 WR Kamryn Babb
#47 CB Houston Griffith
#51 S Derrik Allen (committed)
#63 DT PJ Mustipher
#65 WR Jahan Dotson
#67 TE Jeremy Ruckert
#78 OL Tommy Brown
#81 WR Josh Moore
#87 TE Mustapha Muhammad
#108 LB Dax Hollifield
#111 DT Tommy Togiai
#115 WR Chase Williams
#116 LB Dallas Gant
Of those 19 players I listed (including 2 currently committed) ND would probably be pumped to land 5 of them, meaning they land 3 more... Any more than that would be greatly over achieving relative to ND'S normal standard of recruiting... 5, top 100 recruits would all but assure ND a top 10 class and like top 8.
Nobody knows as much about recruiting as you. Most of us have jobs or real world interests that fill our time. I like getting paid for my special interests.
There is only 1-2 schools with a reasonable number of recruits that are pulling in the talent level that we are, so far.
Of teams that have more than 5 players in their class, only 1 team has a better star average than ND. (USC). And they only have 6 players to ND's 11 (and star average typically declines once you get more than a handful of players).
This recruiting class is at an ELITE level so far, there is simply no debating that.
Whether it will end up being as good or better than the Top3-Top5 classes....we'll have to see how we finish.
This class has Top5 potential (similar to the 2012 class) but it will need to some big-time pulls to make that happen (Amon Rah St. Brown, Houston Griffith, Tyreke Johnson, Dax Hollidfield, Brendan Ridely-Giles, etc.)
You're taking a "wait and see" approach to the best start to recruiting in decades?
That would be undebatably stupid. Recruiting is going fantastically and is setup to continue doing so throughout 2018, as ND is in on a lot of high quality players.
Taking a "wait on see" on Kelly and/or the "Return to Glory", far more reasonable, as that will take more than a single recruiting class...not matter how great it is.
ND is "on the radar" of a TON of Top100 prospects:
Depending on what "Top100" list you're going by:
(and who actually ends in the Top100 will change during the year)
5* WR - Amon-Ra St. Brown - ND Arguably the Leader
5*/4* QB - Phil Jurkovec - ND Commit
5*/4* WR - Brian Hightower - ND in Top5
5*/4* S - Derrik Allen - ND Commit
4* Top100 CB - Houston Griffith - ND Arguably the Leader
4* Top100 CB - Brendan Radley-Hiles - ND in Top5
4* Top100 DT - PJ Mustipher - ND Clear Leader
4* Top100 CB - Kalon Gervin - ND Commit
4* Top100 WR - Jahan Dotson - ND in Top5
4* Top100 OT - Tommy Brown - ND in Top5
4* Top100 LB - Dax Hollifield - ND Arguably the Leader
4* Top100 WR - Chase Williams - ND in Top5
4* Top100 LB - Dallas Gant - ND/Ohio State Battle
4* Top100 ATH - Leonard Taylor - ND in Top5
4* Top100 LB - Mathew Bauer - ND Commit
And on top of all of that, you've got ND Commits like Brendan Lenzy and Jason Ademiola who could very realisticially see their rankings rocket into the Top100
At this point, I would say that this is a "realisitic" project for ND's 2018 Class
(I know we won't land this exact class and things change over time, but this is just a current "guess-timate" and shows how well the class could finish)
QB - Phil Jurkovec (5*)
RB - Marquisse Stepp (4* Top250)
WR - Amon Rah St. Brown (5*)
WR - Brendan Lenzy (4* Top150)
WR - Micah Jones (4* Top250)
OT - Ryan Hayes (4* Top150)
OT - Cole Mabry (3*)
OG - John Dirksen (4* Top250)
DT - PJ Mustipher (4* Top100)
DT - Jason Ademilola (4* Top250)
DT - Aeneas Hawkins (4* Top250)
SDE - Malik Vann (4* Top250)
DE - Devin O'Rourke (4* Top150)
DE - Justin Ademilola (3*)
WDE - Tyreke Smith (4* Top150)
LB - Dax Hollifield (4* Top100)
LB - Dallas Gant (4* Top150)
LB - Mathew Bauer (4* Top100)
LB - Ovie Oghoufo (3*)
CB - Houston Griffith (4* Top100)
CB - Keron Gervin (4* Top100)
CB - Brendan Radley-Hiles (4* Top100)
S - Derrik Allen (5*)
This is a 23 person class
It's pretty "unbalanced" in terms of the numbers per position (especially at DL and LB), but that's where our roster needs the biggest infusion of talent and where we have more interest from top prospects than norm.
I wouldn't be surprised to see some attrition form our roster in those areas, and then over-loading on those areas in the 2018 class
A class like this would put us heavily in the market for OL, RB, and TE's in 2019....but given our recruiting success at those positions recently, I don't really see that as a major issue.
While we certainly won't land all of these guys....I don't think there is a single player that I listed there that would be a "reach".
There is no way that we end up number 1. First we'd have to take 25-30 guys to get there and we can't take about a third of the top 100. Maybe higher than a third, but it's not going to happen. What needs to happen is some dag gone coaching.
Technically for this site only the Top20 players in your class count, so you can have the #1 class with a 20 player class.
That said, having a 30+ player class helps, because you're lowest ranked players get dropped from consideration.
Additionally, I'd bet quite a bit that we're in the 23-25 range for this class, as long as we're able to actually land enough kids that we want to bring us to that number
We're probably never going to have a 30 player class. I don't think ND asks kids to gray shirt and the don't seem to ask kids to leave like SEC schools. From what I've seen here 21-23 is max and we aren't landing 4 5 star guys like Bama and Ohio St
So true! It is always the ones who have done absolutely nothing in the game of football to blather on and on and on...this dude has never buckled a chin strip...never hit anyone in his life...never coached one day...or graded one second of film...but because he wastes his life away on the internet he thinks he's Todd McShay. Pay no mind this guy wouldnt know a football player from a coffee table.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
Hey Sal ! I accidentally gave you fake news when I said "Better call Saul" would start in Feb. I think it is going to be April.
Also I watched all ten episodes of the Young Pope and loved it ! I hated the first couple episodes but it got awesome ! Did you watch any of it?
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
We have been on the lists of top 100 players !,even top 20 high school players only to be disappointed in February . Some of these players list ND but I don't know how serious they are in committing to ND .
Like I said before , I just hope there are no defections from the 11 commits and that we add some real quality defensive linemen . We could end up with a top 5-10 class which would be great. Now we have to turn this season around after last year's disaster . Kelly needs to do something .we haven't really had a signature win since 2012.
Like I said before , I just hope there are no defections from the 11 commits and that we add some real quality defensive linemen . We could end up with a top 5-10 class which would be great. Now we have to turn this season around after last year's disaster . Kelly needs to do something .we haven't really had a signature win since 2012.
ND has a solid class so far but no. 1 at the end ? I'd bet money that when all is said and done, OSU, Alabama, USC, and FSU will all be part of the top 5 - or very close to it. All of these programs have multiple offers out but traditionally slow play solid recruits while waiting on the bigger fish. PSU, Clemson, Georgia, and Michigan should also be in the top 10 also. ND currently has 11 commits which pushes them up the recruiting rankings AT THIS TIME. This could very well be a top 10 class for ND but let's wait and see. The best comparison for early recruiting rankings is the 247 Sports composite ranking which averages all of the major recruiting sites into one. Their average per recruit is the most telling story this early in the recruiting season
http://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CompositeTeamRankings.
http://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CompositeTeamRankings.
Last edited:
The "average player" ranking is pretty meaningless when a class has fewer than 5 commits in it.
(for example, Tennessee's 2 man class averaging a high 4* because they have an early commit from an in-state 5* is pretty meaningless....unless half their class can be made up of in-state 5*'s)
Of classes with 5+ recruits, ND's 24/7 "average" is currently 4th, behind:
1. USC
2. Clemson
3. Penn State
Considering that ND has double the commits of USC and Clemson (and average tends to go down as you get more than a handful of commits)...that's pretty damn impressive.
If ND filled out the rest of it's class at this level (22-25 man class), then they would be very likely to finish in the Top5
Finishing that way is far from a given though!
I understand all of this but the reason I look at the average/recruit this early is to get an idea of the quality of recruits that the school is pulling in. Even more meaningless is getting excited about the early rankings - especially for schools that decide to pull in a high number of recruits early to boost their rankings. But yes, so far, ND has a very impressive class going but finishing in the top 5 is very hard to do especially since many of the "big boys" have yet to really start accepting commitments.
The one thing that isn't measured is whether or not these schools are filling their needs. I remember one of TN's classes under Phillip Fullmer being ranked number one or two at the end but they took 4* QBs in the class. Two years later, three of those QBs had transferred when it became clear they weren't going to be the eventual starter. Ranking classes is fun. Getting 5 stars overall is better than getting 3 stars. But at the end of the day, the coaches have to get players to fit their schemes and players that are coachable, haven't peaked at 17 yrs old etc... But you guys already know all of this. Celebrate NDs early success and let's enjoy the ride.
What you're not saying is:
"I'm looking at the 'per recruit average' and any reasonable analysis also ND has dominating there, in addition to having 11 players already committed"
And the "big boys" were more than willing to accept commitments from many of ND's commits already:
Jurkovek --> Ohio State
Allen --> Alabama / Georgia
Bauer --> Penn State / Michigan
Ademilola twins --> Michigan
Not really sure what you're trying to argue here.
ND is doing fantastically by an reasonable/fact-based standard and if they continue to recruit in this manner they're likely to finish with a Top5 class
(not that continuing in this manner is a given, at all)
Look, there's guys left on the list above who will never qualify for ND.
And there's 5 stars out there who won't qualify.
So, they inevitably end up at Alabama, OSU, FSU etc. By default, these schools snatch up talented players left and right. ND just can't compete with that.
But we hold our own, and recruit amazing talent and amazing PEOPLE to play football here. For recruiting with one hand tied behind his back, Kelly is doing a terrific job so far.
To finish with the #1 class will be mostly impossible in the end, but we sure have a head of steam so far. Can't ask for much more than that out of this staff.
And there's 5 stars out there who won't qualify.
So, they inevitably end up at Alabama, OSU, FSU etc. By default, these schools snatch up talented players left and right. ND just can't compete with that.
But we hold our own, and recruit amazing talent and amazing PEOPLE to play football here. For recruiting with one hand tied behind his back, Kelly is doing a terrific job so far.
To finish with the #1 class will be mostly impossible in the end, but we sure have a head of steam so far. Can't ask for much more than that out of this staff.
I did. Very interesting show. Thought provoking. I moved on to and am just about finished with "Night Manager" -- wont a bunch of golden globes last year and is only 6 episodes. Very Very Good, streaming on Amazon Prime.
Just watched the film on recent offer Tre'Shaun Harrison... wow! Three star but damn he is hard to bring down and he has speed...
Josh Adams was a 3 star RB and I would take him all day long.
