Doug Randolph suing ND
- Thread starter TOMMY_23
- Start date
I am not a Dr so this is just an opinion. I don't believe you get that injury from one hit. That's a culmination of being active such as weight lifting and probably playing ball since he was 5. I'm actually going for that MRI on 9/13 @ 0900. I do believe he has a bone to pick that the initial MRI didn't show that?
Yeah I want to see the lawsuit when it gets made public but this is interesting. Wonder what the protocols for something like this are. Also wonder if there are state/federal laws at play.
I am an MD, intimately familiar with spine MR exams. Reading the linked article is the only "medical" info I have, but I will give you my gestalt based on limited info. I will readily admit my bias is usually toward doctors as I see a LOT of ridiculous malpractice lawsuits.
1) Spinal stenosis
In a 20 year old, acquired spinal stenosis would be almost impossible. That is either an acute disc herniation or a chronic process due to a traumatic injury (fracture or subluxation which would have been seen on the MR) or due to degenerative changes (which a 20 yo couldn't develop). Thus I have to assume he means congenital spinal stenosis. Could that have been overlooked on an MR? Perhaps. Congenital spinal stenosis means the canal is narrowed diffusely, not at one level as with a disc bulge or DJD. It could be overlooked if not significant. The initial MR probably showed no cord injury or focal abnormalities. So perhaps the congenital spinal stenosis was overlooked. Or it was a normal canal width with no stenosis.
2) Pain and numbness with every hit
This is a good history of a patient with congenital spinal stenosis. However, what player would play a year through that??? He wasn't in danger of losing his scholarship as proven by his medical retirement later staying on as an assistant under full scholly. I guess he was in denial? Not sure what was going through his head. I'm questioning if this is part of a "narrative".
3) Steroids
This would absolutely be the drug of choice to reduce inflammation. However, this is where they lose me. The article cites side effects that are much more typical of anabolic steroids. Those are completely different than corticosteroids used for anti-inflammation. Certainly corticosteroids can have side effects, but this reeks of lawyers pumping up a case (pun intended).
4) 2nd MR
At this point it sounds like the MR had new findings. I'm guessing he now had myelopathy. That looks like edema of the cord and would never be missed. So in the year between exams, his presumed congenital spinal stenosis developed cord edema likely due to repetitive injury. The fact that NOW they call spinal stenosis may imply one of 2 things. Either he developed a disc herniation at that level or the doctors in retrospect called congenital spinal stenosis that was overlooked before. Without seeing the exams, no way to know.
5) Trainers and Coaches
In this day and age, there is no way a player with neurological symptoms gets brushed off and told to play. NO F-ING WAY! So this is my biggest issue here. I cannot believe the account as published in the article. Once again, seems like lawyer talk to connect 1 or 2 disparate episodes to create a narrative of a staff that intentionally put a player in harm's way. The account in the article makes no sense. Especially given other ND injuries that players were rested for and the caliber of the player involved. Not exactly top of the depth chart.
So yes. The linked story with the player's side overall makes sense. But several items in the narrative seem untrue or significantly embellished. In my opinion, this seems overly litigious. I cannot believe staff would disregard neurologic complaints. The first MR was also read as normal. Perhaps he could go after the radiologist who read the first MR, but that would be a pretty tough case. Probably a subtle finding or no true finding at all. Plus, what is the long term impact. He was never going to earn a living in the NFL. Does he actually have permanent nerve damage? The article conveniently skips this question. As we know from following Jaylon, nerves can regenerate. So it is very possible he will/has improved.
Sorry for the long post. Obviously, the medical aspects of this story hit close to home. I also hate to see lawsuit blasts going after EVERYONE. Wanted to defend our staff which was unfairly painted as nefarious.
1) Spinal stenosis
In a 20 year old, acquired spinal stenosis would be almost impossible. That is either an acute disc herniation or a chronic process due to a traumatic injury (fracture or subluxation which would have been seen on the MR) or due to degenerative changes (which a 20 yo couldn't develop). Thus I have to assume he means congenital spinal stenosis. Could that have been overlooked on an MR? Perhaps. Congenital spinal stenosis means the canal is narrowed diffusely, not at one level as with a disc bulge or DJD. It could be overlooked if not significant. The initial MR probably showed no cord injury or focal abnormalities. So perhaps the congenital spinal stenosis was overlooked. Or it was a normal canal width with no stenosis.
2) Pain and numbness with every hit
This is a good history of a patient with congenital spinal stenosis. However, what player would play a year through that??? He wasn't in danger of losing his scholarship as proven by his medical retirement later staying on as an assistant under full scholly. I guess he was in denial? Not sure what was going through his head. I'm questioning if this is part of a "narrative".
3) Steroids
This would absolutely be the drug of choice to reduce inflammation. However, this is where they lose me. The article cites side effects that are much more typical of anabolic steroids. Those are completely different than corticosteroids used for anti-inflammation. Certainly corticosteroids can have side effects, but this reeks of lawyers pumping up a case (pun intended).
4) 2nd MR
At this point it sounds like the MR had new findings. I'm guessing he now had myelopathy. That looks like edema of the cord and would never be missed. So in the year between exams, his presumed congenital spinal stenosis developed cord edema likely due to repetitive injury. The fact that NOW they call spinal stenosis may imply one of 2 things. Either he developed a disc herniation at that level or the doctors in retrospect called congenital spinal stenosis that was overlooked before. Without seeing the exams, no way to know.
5) Trainers and Coaches
In this day and age, there is no way a player with neurological symptoms gets brushed off and told to play. NO F-ING WAY! So this is my biggest issue here. I cannot believe the account as published in the article. Once again, seems like lawyer talk to connect 1 or 2 disparate episodes to create a narrative of a staff that intentionally put a player in harm's way. The account in the article makes no sense. Especially given other ND injuries that players were rested for and the caliber of the player involved. Not exactly top of the depth chart.
So yes. The linked story with the player's side overall makes sense. But several items in the narrative seem untrue or significantly embellished. In my opinion, this seems overly litigious. I cannot believe staff would disregard neurologic complaints. The first MR was also read as normal. Perhaps he could go after the radiologist who read the first MR, but that would be a pretty tough case. Probably a subtle finding or no true finding at all. Plus, what is the long term impact. He was never going to earn a living in the NFL. Does he actually have permanent nerve damage? The article conveniently skips this question. As we know from following Jaylon, nerves can regenerate. So it is very possible he will/has improved.
Sorry for the long post. Obviously, the medical aspects of this story hit close to home. I also hate to see lawsuit blasts going after EVERYONE. Wanted to defend our staff which was unfairly painted as nefarious.
A couple things.
1) The statue of limitations for filing in this type of case is two years in Indiana. He says it happened Sept of 2015, so he filed the lawsuit at the last second. Why? (Next point)
2) He graduated in 2017. So he went ahead & used his free scholarship to graduate before he sued the school.
3) He worked for the school as a coach for over a year. Not going to sue while he has a sweet gig.
So you are saying school/coaches/doctors ruined your life back in 2015, yet you chose to work for, take free money from, & graduate from said University over the next two years?But soon as that is all complete you then sue? You didn't care about your own health then over the past two years, but now you can't use them anymore & the statue of limitations is coming up you sue?
If his health was so important to him & he thinks he was lied to then why wait two years, work for the "liars" & graduate from the "liars."
It's a money grab.
1) The statue of limitations for filing in this type of case is two years in Indiana. He says it happened Sept of 2015, so he filed the lawsuit at the last second. Why? (Next point)
2) He graduated in 2017. So he went ahead & used his free scholarship to graduate before he sued the school.
3) He worked for the school as a coach for over a year. Not going to sue while he has a sweet gig.
So you are saying school/coaches/doctors ruined your life back in 2015, yet you chose to work for, take free money from, & graduate from said University over the next two years?But soon as that is all complete you then sue? You didn't care about your own health then over the past two years, but now you can't use them anymore & the statue of limitations is coming up you sue?
If his health was so important to him & he thinks he was lied to then why wait two years, work for the "liars" & graduate from the "liars."
It's a money grab.
A post on TOS explains this suit as a technical matter, where he had to file the suit within two years of being effected by the injury to keep alive his ongoing insurance claim with ND's insurer.
Well I guess since it was a very quiet summer, meaning no suspensions, no cheating scandals, no pot smoking and stuff, something was bound to happen. I do not have remember a coach at ND have issue after issue every season, almost on cue. It's unreal! Kelly has been here 8 years. How many of those years were " drama" free?
Lot of factors go into why you file a lawsuit and when you file a law suit. This is a bad logical position. If you went to a doctor and they messed up and you were put in the hospital you don't stop getting medical treatment if you still need it. You get your medical treatment, recover, and then assess what the best course of action is.
Lawsuit and medical mumble--jumbo aside, I'm sorry to hear he's still having problems. This sport is awfully tough on these young men we love to hate on when things don't go well. If he needs long term treatment, I'm sure that can be expensive.
I notice the suit alleges he stopped pain treatment due to side effects that included extreme aggressiveness. Now I personally don't remember a lot of extreme aggressiveness from Mr. Randolph in 2015, but if true, I think we should put some of that shit in everybody's breakfast Saturday.
I notice the suit alleges he stopped pain treatment due to side effects that included extreme aggressiveness. Now I personally don't remember a lot of extreme aggressiveness from Mr. Randolph in 2015, but if true, I think we should put some of that shit in everybody's breakfast Saturday.
And now it has gone national...
http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...g-university-allegedly-concealing-mri-results
http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...g-university-allegedly-concealing-mri-results
Dr, I'm prescribed Naproxen. I was dying but between stretching and the chiropractor things have improved. Could bulging discs in the neck cause screw ups with the back?
Aren't you the Michigan fan who had inside information on the NCAA's ruling on ND's appeal? Then when called out on it you said your point of contact is never wrong? Even though the NCAA hasn't even heard the case yet?
Yep. It's you. Why do you hang out on a ND board to just put down ND? (That's rhetorical, we all know).
That's not what happened here. You are talking apples & oranges in this case.
No, I wrote that I trusted someone and he was wrong and then so was I. I still don't think the NCAA will accept your appeal, but we shall see.
And for today, I think your beef should be with The Observer. I didn't write the article.
Not a Dr., but I've had eight spine surgeries over the past twenty years, another scheduled next week, and so pretty damn familiar with stenosis and discs and pain and numbness, etc... One thing I know from my experience, is that clear articulation of symptoms by the patient is more critical than the diagnostic tools available to the Dr. One person's MRI can show mild stenosis with serious symptoms, and another's can show serious stenosis with mild symptoms. And absent a badly ruptured disc from an acute injury, stenosis is generally a long time degenative process. Mine started when I was a young teen probably helped by playing poorly coached football starting at age eight. So, I think it is entirely possible he is suffering back pain issues, but I don't think ND had any culpability for malfeasance, etc... It's a violent sport and his issues probably started well before he started his ND career. I suspect this is in line with the insurance carrier's position, which is the underlying reason for the lawsuit filing at the two year mark.
You didn't list a source in your original post about the NCAA denying ND's appeal. Only after several posters questioning you did you admit it was information from a friend. You posted a rumor and shouldn't have posted it at all.
You are quick to post about any dirty laundry ND may or might not have even on a thread about an IndyStar/ ESPN article. Schadenfreude???
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Wow. Never heard of so many back surgeries. Do you have chronic back pain? That is a tough situation.
Right. And I apologised in that thread. Yet you are still harping on it. Instead of commenting on today's post...
Close to Schadenfreude Alice. You said a while back you Google everything. Try Googling his handle.
You know better than to post a rumor and you should know better than to bait with that link (which had nothing do with the linked article).
Don't be asinine and Irish posters won't be "harping" on you!
Schadenfreude?
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Look, for the third time, I already apologized LAST MONTH for posting a rumor. The appeal had been made quite a while ago and I assumed that the ruling had come in. I don't know what more you expect.
And you would prefer if I had started ANOTHER thread to inform you of the other law suit? Yeah, that would have gone over great. You guys want to ignore the message and focus on blaming the messenger.
And the article I linked is another new law suit vs ND. Seems like that has a LOT to do with the original OP's post.
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Just get off your high horse, Wolvie fan, stop trying to be snarky and the first to break bad news on an Irish board and you won't catch flack from the locals.
Pennick...didn't mean to focus on me, but to add context. Five of my first six surgeries provided little relief and one was a large failed fusion. My last surgery fused my L 2-3-4-5 and S-1, and the one before that fused my right Sacroiliac; and together these reduced my chronic pain by 70% or so. They're fusing my left Sacroiliac next week, and hoping for similar results. I'm doing well, and thanks for asking.
I could have broke both stories last night Alice. They are in the damned papers. I don't see why it matters who posts what first.
FWIW, I also have been the first to post good recruiting news here. And I picked ND to beat Georgia by 4. Although, I laugh that some think Temple is some kind of tough team this year.
Oh, give it a rest! Doubt few remember you being first with good news postings but would say a very high percentage of the Irish regulars are quite aware of how you relish being the first to post the not so good stuff or even a falsehood. Now ya'll have a good evening!
Trust your instincts. I only took him off ignore long enough to see who you were responding to.
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Best of luck to you. I am an avid golfer and am so fortunate that I have never had any back issues. I get to the gym regularly and always do core work but some of our health is purely genetic.
Alice would get my vote
played to a nine handicap and had to stop playing 34 yrs ago. Retired now and live on a beautiful course for eight years, and played for the first time last summer for two and a half months, after my last surgery. I was in heaven, but then the left side became problematic, leading to next week's surgery. My goal is to play again, at least twice a week, and I'm clear with Drs about this. Consensus is that if all goes well, I should be able to play again, if I am able to adapt to a shorter slower swing. Have a teaching pro lined up who understands my situation who will help me with this. I just want ten years of enjoying the game again! Keep up your core exercises! Wife and friends tease me because my stomach is in damn good shape from doing core exercises almost daily for several decades. Just have crappy discs.
