Is there a particular scheme ND can recruit easier for? It's no secrete ND has struggled recruiting D-Linemen.
4-2-5
Or
3-3-5
Or
3-4
4-2-5
Or
3-3-5
Or
3-4
Defensive Phlosphy going forward
- Thread starter scubastevefl
- Start date
Would be intrigued by 3-3-5 if it included blitzing a DB if disguised well enough.
You guys are way over my head although I'd love for someone who understands the differences to educate me about the merits of one vs. another...
In the end, we need someone who will teach fundamentals! Right? And inspire all of that young talent. Kelly's job (which he is lucky to still have, see Observer ad today!) is contingent upon an INSPIRED HIRE AT DC! (Like Urban and Saban -- leave your ego at the door, hire a former HC like Strong! That is what they do with great success...)
If he knocks it out of the park 2017 could be the year the Irish Phoenix rises out of the ashes! Go Irish! I know we all bleed blue and gold, so I feel the pain.
I'm going to hope for the best!
In the end, we need someone who will teach fundamentals! Right? And inspire all of that young talent. Kelly's job (which he is lucky to still have, see Observer ad today!) is contingent upon an INSPIRED HIRE AT DC! (Like Urban and Saban -- leave your ego at the door, hire a former HC like Strong! That is what they do with great success...)
If he knocks it out of the park 2017 could be the year the Irish Phoenix rises out of the ashes! Go Irish! I know we all bleed blue and gold, so I feel the pain.
I'm going to hope for the best!
4-3-4 as the base. Depending on down and distance, make adjustments with nickles and dimes. Since we play option teams, spread teams, jumbo offenses (Texas) and pro offenses, sometimes we will even have to change the base for a game.
I don't think we can successfully get the 6 bigs we need for the 3-4 for a rotation. Plus, with Diaco it was a keep the play in front of you defense and I would like one that attacks more. BVG was too much in that regard though.
I think the big need is quality depth. Not possible in 2014 or 15 with the players we lost. We didn't have it this year obviously. None of the basic formations can succeed without depth. I think we have the best chance to get that depth with a 4-3-4.
I don't think we can successfully get the 6 bigs we need for the 3-4 for a rotation. Plus, with Diaco it was a keep the play in front of you defense and I would like one that attacks more. BVG was too much in that regard though.
I think the big need is quality depth. Not possible in 2014 or 15 with the players we lost. We didn't have it this year obviously. None of the basic formations can succeed without depth. I think we have the best chance to get that depth with a 4-3-4.
What this defense also needs is an infusion of passion and energy, as well as fundamentals. Over the last few years, these seemed to be sorely lacking.
Watching an ND player tackle someone is like watching middle school football -- mind-boggling. I watch OSU (and have seen them practice on many occasions), Alabama, Michigan -- and may others who have solid defenses -- they play with passion, aggression, and when they tackle a runner, they get him.
Watching an ND player tackle someone is like watching middle school football -- mind-boggling. I watch OSU (and have seen them practice on many occasions), Alabama, Michigan -- and may others who have solid defenses -- they play with passion, aggression, and when they tackle a runner, they get him.
I sure as hell don't know the answer to the OP. When we played a 3-4 with Nix we were successful, but when he left the consensus of this board was that we couldn't recruit the rare NG it takes to play this, and folks argued we needed to move to the base 4-3. Now after three years of futiiity, folks here are increasingly of the opinion that we should go back to a 3-4 because we recruit linebackers better than DL. Personally, I think you hire a successful DC, and they will have their preferences based on scheme and success, and expect they will be able to recruit accordingly.
Exactly. Our players seemingly have lost the art of wrapping up. They simply hit and bounce off.
Body sizes, and speed/quickness may have something to do with the scheme. But regardless of scheme, to have a really sound defense, the players need to master the fundamentals and really tackle (hit and wrap up) the carrier rather than simply hoping that their hit forces the carrier to fall down.
Two things....
The formation needs to fit the personnel you have and or bringing in.
Examples
4-3 the reliance is on the defensive line first and foremost. So you better have great tackles and ends to create havoc. If you can do it with no blitzing that leaves 7 guys free to cover, attack, etc. (Only 5 ) can go out for a pass. So you can see the numbers favor the defense if you can use only 4 linemen rushing. Think of the "steel curtain" if you're old enough. They had great linebackers in Lambert and ham but make no mistake it all began and ended with those four down lineman.
3-4 is reliant on a nose tackle. Big, capable of eating multiple blockers as well as the two defensive tackles because you make your stops in this defense with your linebackers...particular outside linebacker. Most times they rush the qb off the edge and if your front 3 can take on the blocking four or even five it allows your 4 linebackers free to create the havoc.
All those other formations as a staple ,,,
3-3-5,
4-2-5...funny lol ..they are just forms of nickel. Nothing more...and if you try to use the nickel as your staple. ...want to see how well they work against conventional power football....just watch how well the big 12 plays defense against power football. Ha ha
A couple notes...
The defense may switch into a form of a 3-3-5 or a 4-2-5 (nickel) they are both just nickel defenses in the end...and fine against Mickey Mouse offense or lots of passing but power straight ahead football they're very weak.
Last note and biggest one is your personnel must match your scheme. That is paramount.
Jaylon Smith is an example....was a great outside linebacker in high school...signed on when we were running the 3-4. Perfect for a big time outside linebacker.
Then we switched mid stream into a cluster **** of a scheme under BVG.
Insane.
Hope this helps clear a little up.
P.s. sorry I forgot to mention as I didn't take into account what those numbers mean.
First number is always the down linemen...(4-3) four down linemen and three linebackers. (3-4) three lineman and four backers. In either of those you are left with four defensive backs.
When you add a fifth defensive back it is now a nickel...get it ..five...defensive backs.
Hope some of this helps.
88ND...nice concise explanation. I damn near screamed all over again thinking of the idiocy of our playing the 3-3-5 against Texas, especially in the 4th qtr after we had success reverting back to our base 4-3 in the 3rd qtr. We gave up any chance to pressure the QB and we damn near granted them a minimum five yards every rush when we used the 3-3-5. So critical that Kelly goes outside and brings in a quality DC with track record of success.
Telx...don't get me started on that horse shit of a defense we ran under BVG at times. He continually out coached himself. That Texas game set the table for all other schools how to beat us.
Remember when Texas had 3rd and goal from the 3?
We lined up with our linebackers three yards deep in the end zone.
Only,., ONLY in a deep passing situation..I.e. 3rd and 10 as an example should possibly the linebackers and ONLY then line up 6 yards off the ball.
Third and and goal from the 3 yard line and our players are lined up 6 yards off the ball.
So two things on that...BVG who I believe was also the linebacker coach was perfectly OK with this.....or the players themselves were scared of that impact that was coming because everyone knew the QB was keeping it.
Either way it was wrong.
Remember when Texas had 3rd and goal from the 3?
We lined up with our linebackers three yards deep in the end zone.
Only,., ONLY in a deep passing situation..I.e. 3rd and 10 as an example should possibly the linebackers and ONLY then line up 6 yards off the ball.
Third and and goal from the 3 yard line and our players are lined up 6 yards off the ball.
So two things on that...BVG who I believe was also the linebacker coach was perfectly OK with this.....or the players themselves were scared of that impact that was coming because everyone knew the QB was keeping it.
Either way it was wrong.
Yep, I can hear your screaming about this game over my own. I wanted BVG fired after 2015, and so The Texas game moved me to the fire Kelly side.
