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Basketball Recruiting Question

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stu4don

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Dec 13, 2006
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Really proud of the Irish run again so far this year. Gutsy group. Have to admit I don't follow BB recruiting the way I follow FB. (Even though that was my sport in HS, gave it up when I got to ND, although I did try out for Digger and made the final 15 ("If we had a JV you'd be it.") Guess I just couldn't compete with AD, and company although I played with him and Montana at the Rock.)

Anyway, watching Duke finish on us last night it was clear...

As good as seniors Vesturia and Beachem are for ND, they just aren't up to the level of freshmen like Tatum. We've seen this before come tourney time vs. Kentucky '15 and N. Carolina '16. Amazing accomplishments for Brey considering the highest ranked players we've had were Grant at #28 and Jackson at #38. (Notice that the lowest ranked player on the court for Duke yesterday was #28 Allen.) Whereas other teams' recruit future NBA stars ND grads are playing minimal minutes (Grant 15, Jackson 3.)

This is not a knock on our players or Brey but I am just wondering what we'd need to win it all? (Maybe a single one-and-done top ten recruit to play with our seniors?)

I mean there were times when Duke had five guys on the court, none of whom were ranked lower than 10th as a recruit while the Irish had no guys on the court ranked in the top 100.

Beachem #86 2013 Tatum #3 2016
Vesturia #108 2013 Jefferson #2 2016
Colson #145 2014 Jackson #12 2016
Farrell UR 2014 Jones #7 2014
Pfleuger #83 2015 Kennard #25 2015
Ryan #114 2015 Giles #2 2014
Gibbs #63 2016 Allen #28 2014
Torres UR 2013
Geben #103 2014

Have to say I love watching Brey's teams. I really love the way they pass the ball, their lack of turnovers, their defense and guts. But it felt last night when we needed a bucket we didn't have the go-to guy. (We just went cold the last ten minutes.) If only Bonzi was 6'8"! I'm not being a crybaby here -- we have been one of the top ten programs in the country over the last three years. We came into the ACC and have more than held our own -- making the finals two of four years.

But what will it take to put us over the top in the big dance?
Can we make it to the final weekend this year?
Does Brey rethink his recruiting stance just a bit and go for a big gun, just once?

Next year we will have a solid lineup again. And I could see us being right back in it. But in the same way we have been right back in it the last two years. Wonder if Brey did take an NBA job (he'd be great) what a new young coach who had a different recruiting approach could do?

Here's hoping our Irish make a Hossiers-type run this year.

Go Irish.
 
stu4don said:
Really proud of the Irish run again so far this year. Gutsy group. Have to admit I don't follow BB recruiting the way I follow FB. (Even though that was my sport in HS, gave it up when I got to ND, although I did try out for Digger and made the final 15 ("If we had a JV you'd be it.") Guess I just couldn't compete with AD, and company although I played with him and Montana at the Rock.)

Anyway, watching Duke finish on us last night it was clear...

As good as seniors Vesturia and Beachem are for ND, they just aren't up to the level of freshmen like Tatum. We've seen this before come tourney time vs. Kentucky '15 and N. Carolina '16. Amazing accomplishments for Brey considering the highest ranked players we've had were Grant at #28 and Jackson at #38. (Notice that the lowest ranked player on the court for Duke yesterday was #28 Allen.) Whereas other teams' recruit future NBA stars ND grads are playing minimal minutes (Grant 15, Jackson 3.)

This is not a knock on our players or Brey but I am just wondering what we'd need to win it all? (Maybe a single one-and-done top ten recruit to play with our seniors?)

I mean there were times when Duke had five guys on the court, none of whom were ranked lower than 10th as a recruit while the Irish had no guys on the court ranked in the top 100.

Beachem #86 2013 Tatum #3 2016
Vesturia #108 2013 Jefferson #2 2016
Colson #145 2014 Jackson #12 2016
Farrell UR 2014 Jones #7 2014
Pfleuger #83 2015 Kennard #25 2015
Ryan #114 2015 Giles #2 2014
Gibbs #63 2016 Allen #28 2014
Torres UR 2013
Geben #103 2014

Have to say I love watching Brey's teams. I really love the way they pass the ball, their lack of turnovers, their defense and guts. But it felt last night when we needed a bucket we didn't have the go-to guy. (We just went cold the last ten minutes.) If only Bonzi was 6'8"! I'm not being a crybaby here -- we have been one of the top ten programs in the country over the last three years. We came into the ACC and have more than held our own -- making the finals two of four years.

But what will it take to put us over the top in the big dance?
Can we make it to the final weekend this year?
Does Brey rethink his recruiting stance just a bit and go for a big gun, just once?

Next year we will have a solid lineup again. And I could see us being right back in it. But in the same way we have been right back in it the last two years. Wonder if Brey did take an NBA job (he'd be great) what a new young coach who had a different recruiting approach could do?

Here's hoping our Irish make a Hossiers-type run this year.

Go Irish.
Click to expand...
ND has the worse facilities in the ACC. Coach Brey is an amazing coach. So lucky to have him. Suck it Buguit!
 
I think Brey is finally figuring out how to win with older veteran players since ND can't do the "one-and-done" recruiting.

ND will always be in the same category as Wisconsin and Gonzaga in that regard. Hopefully they can keep finding talented young men so they can compete in the ACC.
 
Irish recruits in any sport are expected to go to school and graduate in most cases. That's the big difference between Duke, UK and other one and doners.
 
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Pennick44 said:
ND has the worse facilities in the ACC. Coach Brey is an amazing coach. So lucky to have him. Suck it Buguit!
Click to expand...

All these honorable mentions in threads I'm not even involved in ..... you obviously lose sleep over me too ..... LOL!
 
I almost started the same thread. Very well presented thoughts by stu4don.

Look, I understand the academic requirements at ND, but you cannot tell me that we can't allow a 1 and done player every year. You have no further to look than our opponent in said game above - Duke.

Duke is a HIGHLY prestigious school. Ranked ahead of Notre Dame in the annual US News rankings. They were #8 to our #15 in the most recent edition. It seems allowing an elite basketball program with multiple 1 and done players hasn't negatively affected Duke in national academics, reputation, and it certainly hasn't watered down a Duke degree.

I would extend this argument to football. I recognize that we stretch admissions allowances for some players now, but many players cannot get in. We don't even recruit them.

I just don't see the point of hamstringing our revenue producing sports. How much more would ND gain by allowing our basketball and football programs to recruit these guys? It would be such a positive!

I have an ND degree. So does just about everyone in my family. ND gave me a career and helped make me who I am today. At this point in my life, my connection to the University is really just through sports.

I just don't see what sitting on a high horse with regards to recruiting accomplishes.
 
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Brey is the man. Would like to see his recent success (back2back Elite 8's) lead to some higher rated recruits. If he started getting Duke like talent, they could turn into a Juggernaut.
 
PHJIndy said:
Irish recruits in any sport are expected to go to school and graduate in most cases. That's the big difference between Duke, UK and other one and doners.
Click to expand...


All colleges not just Notre Dame expect graduation. The players themselves indicated if they will be one and done. Brey and the admin do not want to deal with those kids. where duke will. That said that Canadian kid not sure of the spelling Thon Maker who was legitimately looking @ the Irish would have been a one and done (we would have taken)
 
nemeth#5 said:
Brey is the man. Would like to see his recent success (back2back Elite 8's) lead to some higher rated recruits. If he started getting Duke like talent, they could turn into a Juggernaut.
Click to expand...

I am a little stunned that it hasn't.

DJ Harvey was highly rated nationally. I have seen him ranked as no 46. Boy I wanted Morsell to go with him. We came close. That would have been Brey's best wing class.

Couldn't get a big guy. You would think that after the success of Gody, Cooley, Auguste and Bonzie, we would have gotten a true down low guy to go with Geben, Burns and Mooney.
 
What also really hurts ND is their inability to recruit Indiana. For example in next years class Kris Wilkes from Indianapolis is going to UCLA and Jalen Jackson ( I think) is from La Lumiere and going to MSU. Just wish we could go harder after these kids.
Also imagine if Jalen Coleman and Kevin Huerter were on next years team. They were ND leans at one point.
 
pnick said:
What also really hurts ND is their inability to recruit Indiana. For example in next years class Kris Wilkes from Indianapolis is going to UCLA and Jalen Jackson ( I think) is from La Lumiere and going to MSU. Just wish we could go harder after these kids.
Also imagine if Jalen Coleman and Kevin Huerter were on next years team. They were ND leans at one point.
Click to expand...

I do recall Huerter. I thought we were pretty solid there but Maryland swooped in and grabbed him pretty quick after his visit I think. We got Gibbs, Djogo and Mooney for that class so his loss was quickly set aside. Huerter had SV, VJ, Rex and Ryan in front of him so I doubt if he would have seen the court much. He played last year for Maryland so he seems to have taken the quickest path to playing time.
 
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In addition to the state of Indiana, there are more than a few really good D1 players coming out of the state of Michigan every year that Brey rarely gets to play for ND
 
Flanner Hall said:
In addition to the state of Indiana, there are more than a few really good D1 players coming out of the state of Michigan every year that Brey rarely gets to play for ND
Click to expand...

Do Indiana players want to play in the ACC? Sounds like a tough sell. Despite that, Brey brought in Beachem and DJ. Torres was an unusual legacy practice guy.
 
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