Top recruits sound off on BK

[savvyandsassier]

I share your thoughts exactly. I'm not direcring this at anybody in particular but as a general observation...

At least half the time somebody disagrees with me and I defend my point, it digresses into a "you think you know everything", "who the **** are you?", "you don't know **** about football" or my favourite "what does a Canadian know?" response... It's the most childish debate tactic ever and it wreaks of somebody who isn't intelligent enough to have a point / counter point debate that stays on topic, or somebody who is too insecure to risk being on the losing end of a debate and have to eat their crow.

For some people I fear that message boards like these are all that they have. There are people on this board who I genuinely fear do not leave the dingy confines of their basement. There are those that I feel probably have a very hard time socializing in public and are probably shunned by others, and, therefore, rush to platforms like these where they can stew in their anonimity... To those people I beg you. GO OUTSIDE. Meet a girl. They're lovely.

Somebody can disagree with you and defend their point. You don't need to be a keyboard warrior or a jackass. Just make your point and put the keyboard down. Life will go on.

So let me ask you something, Mr. enlightened Canadian, if you were at some elite recruit's house ready to close the deal, and the kid threw something on the ground and told you to pick it up.... would you do it?

And try to keep your answer to less than three paragraphs.

 

[IrishInOntario]

A whole lot of talking making the same points.

Its pretty impressive that he pulls in top 15 classes every year yet is the terrible recruiter you claim. You talk a whole bunch of bull sh*t. You try to act like you know everything and you're the smartest guy in the room but you dont know much.

Go do your little regional recruiting and he'll pull in his top 10 national class next year.

He's supposed to pull in a top 10 class. He's the head coach at Notre Dame lol... He's not coaching New Mexico State.

Lol keep making your posts about me and keep dodging the the topic that you clearly know nothing about.

And I will enjoy recruiting the province thank you very much, it's fun little paid side gig that supplements my income and keeps me entrenched in North American football recruiting, a passion of mine. You can demean it all you want. You're not going to get a rise in me. I'm perfectly secure in who I am.

 

[Golson5]

1. While I don't have the luxury of the contacts I had at ND while I worked for ISD, I still have the connections to the people that have those same connections with Peloquin, Kearny, Rees, etc... Tigers do not change their stripes. The same info the guys I still talk to get from recruits today is the same info I got directly, 7-8 years ago.

2. You've heard stories have you? I find it humoursly rich that you are adamant that I know absolutely nothing about recruiting despite working in the business for a long time, having connections at and around Notre Dame and at one time talking directly to ND recruits (Brian Kelly's recruits) on a daily basis... But you've "heard stories" so you're somehow believable and credible and AI'm notlol? Don't you see the ridiculous irony in that?

Secondly, on that point, if you knew anything about the ins and outside of recruiting, which you evidently don't, you'd know that talking to kids in your office, on game days, before games, on Sundays after games and in their houses once per cycle (the maximum allowed for a HC) is actually the most baseline minimum that a head coach is required to recruit in order to have any success at all. That's as standard as it gets. Every head coach in the country does that. What I've been talking about throughout this thread and what McMillan and Ransom (and others) have talked about for years, is that Brian Kelly rarely does the extras to distinguish himself as a recruiter. The odd time he gets personally involved with a recruit and that usually ends up going well for ND....The problem is that guys like Urban Meyer, Nick Saban (especially when he was younger), Dabo Swinney, Jimbo Fisher, Ryan Day, etc, etc, do that with every top recruit. In fact, they often keep in such close contact that they have a lackey text and DM for them and keep the conversations going, and simply liaise with the coach about content and get him involved at particular times and for particular matters. That's the extremes they go to. Daily conversation. That compared to talking with a recruit a couple times in an entire cycle is crazy if you think you're going to get a bunch of top guys. You're the face of the program. Assistants come and go. They want to know the man running the show.

3. Where did James Franklin come from? What has he won at the level of a Dabo, Meyer, Saban, etc?... He's another Brian Kelly, at a top 15 program, trying to get over the top. I'd take ND's class over his as well. But what's the point? The only classes that matter nationally are those of the contenders, Ohio State, Clemson, Alabama, LSU, Oregon and Georgia and tactics used by the head coaches at those schools to accumulate the talent that they have that gives them the edge. Everything else is just bullshit. That's what matters.

1. Elite recruiting
2. Great to elite coaching
3. Elite development
4. Elite culture
5. Retention

This guy has all the answers lol. Then go do it a high level and stop posting on a message board. It's so easy. All you got to do is this this and that. These 5 things and working your ass off. Follow your own advice and go make millions doing it and stop telling us how it's done

 

[Golson5]

He's supposed to pull in a top 10 class. He's the head coach at Notre Dame lol... He's not coaching New Mexico State.

Lol keep making your posts about me and keep dodging the the topic that you clearly know nothing about.

And I will enjoy recruiting the province thank you very much, it's fun little paid side gig that supplements my income and keeps me entrenched in North American football recruiting, a passion of mine. You can demean it all you want. You're not going to get a rise in me. I'm perfectly secure in who I am.

Right hes supposed to do it lol. Because Notre Dame was such a powerhouse when he got here. When he got here these kids have never seen a dominant Notre Dame. Our hometown state is in Indiana with trash football talent. We were behind on facilities and coaches salary. But its so easy he should just pull in top 10 classes because we are ND right, so stupid of an argument. We're beating out Miami FSU and USC with all their recruiting advantages. Shouldnt they be top 10 before us lol. How much easier is it to recruit at those schools. Yet hes a terrible recruiter. More bull sh*t

 

[IrishInOntario]

So let me ask you something, Mr. enlightened Canadian, if you were at some elite recruit's house ready to close the deal, and the kid threw something on the ground and told you to pick it up.... would you do it?

And try to keep your answer to less than three paragraphs.

"Mr. Enlightened Canadian"... This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not even going to participate in a conversation with someone who is so arrogant as to address somebody for the first the ever in a demeaning fashion, rather than just having a converstion. You clearly have no desire to participate in a healthy debate. At least not with me.

And who are you to dictate to somebody at what length they choose to answer a question?

Kick rocks.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Right hes supposed to do it lol. Because Notre Dame was such a powerhouse when he got here. When he got here these kids have never seen a dominant Notre Dame. Our hometown state is in Indiana with trash football talent. We were behind on facilities and coaches salary. But its so easy he should just pull in top 10 classes because we are ND right, so stupid of an argument. We're beating out Miami FSU and USC with all their recruiting advantages. Shouldnt they be top 10 before us lol. How much easier is it to recruit at those schools. Yet hes a terrible recruiter. More bull sh*t

Charlie Weis recruited top 10 classes and he never won more than 10 games (once) at Notre Dame. He wasn't half the head coach Brian Kelly is. He literally, constantly, talks about the strength of ND's brand, how the school recruits itself when they can get kids to campus, etc... If you had been paying attention you'd know that those are literally bedrocks of his recruiting philosophy... That Notre Dame is special and that you should choose the school over the staff.

Kelly has played for a national title and in a playoff. With that kind of success he should be able to pull top 10 classes. That's right where he should be. Overachieving would getting up into that elite top 5 range that he referenced in his press conference the other day.

 

[savvyandsassier]

"Mr. Enlightened Canadian"... This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not even going to participate in a conversation with someone who is so arrogant as to address somebody for the first the ever in a demeaning fashion, rather than just having a converstion. You clearly have no desire to participate in a healthy debate. At least not with me.

And who are you to dictate to somebody at what length they choose to answer a question?

Kick rocks.

Who, me? Nobody important. Though you did keep it to three paragraphs, so that's good. And no, I don't have much of a desire to participate in a healthy debate with the likes of you. You'll have to forgive me.

'Cause I love my coach Brian Kelly! The fact that he doesn't pick it up when the kid tells him to is fine by me. I'll live with it.

 

[Golson5]

Charlie Weis recruited top 10 classes and he never won more than 10 games (once) at Notre Dame. He wasn't half the head coach Brian Kelly is. He literally, constantly, talks about the strength of ND's brand, how the school recruits itself when they can get kids to campus, etc... If you had been paying attention you'd know that those are literally bedrocks of his recruiting philosophy... That Notre Dame is special and that you should choose the school over the staff.

Kelly has played for a national title and in a playoff. With that kind of success he should be able to pull top 10 classes. That's right where he should be. Overachieving would getting up into that elite top 5 range that he referenced in his press conference the other day.

And we wouldnt have the success we have now if Kelly wasnt a good recruiter and a very good coach. And hes doing it without a lot of advantages other schools have. And his classes will get even better from here on out with his continued success. Hes obviously doing something right pulling us out of a dumpster fire to a top 12 program and building momentum

 

[IrishInOntario]

This guy has all the answers lol. Then go do it a high level and stop posting on a message board. It's so easy. All you got to do is this this and that. These 5 things and working your ass off. Follow your own advice and go make millions doing it and stop telling us how it's done

You ask me questions, or challenge my points, then when I give you my answer and you choose to mock me rather than furthering the debate. What's the point in conversing then?

When you disagree with me it's fine to give your counterpoint or layout your opinion, but when I disagree with you I'm just a "know-it-all", who "don't actually know ****" and is a "nobody" who would be making millions if I could do what I say... That about sums it up right?

Are you of the opinion that my sole participation in a conversation should be agreeing with you?

 

[Golson5]

You ask me questions, or challenge my points, then when I give you my answer and you choose to mock me rather than furthering the debate. What's the point in conversing then?

When you disagree with me it's fine to give your counterpoint or layout your opinion, but when I disagree with you I'm just a "know-it-all", who "don't actually know ****" and is a "nobody" who would be making millions if I could do what I say... That about sums it up right?

Are you of the opinion that my sole participation in a conversation should be agreeing with you?

No Ive debated you multiple times and it was never a problem us going back and forth. but it seems like your know it all style has gotten worse. Or maybe it's these few topics you think you know more and can do it better than the coach. Or you make it seem like you know everything and all Kelly has to do is this this and this. Like you know what hes doing and what hes not. If Kelly just listens to you everything will be better. You sounded super arrogant this time.

 

[IrishInOntario]

And we wouldnt have the success we have now if Kelly wasnt a good recruiter and a very good coach. And hes doing it without a lot of advantages other schools have. And his classes will get even better from here on out with his continued success. Hes obviously doing something right pulling us out of a dumpster fire to a top 12 program and building momentum

He's an excellent coach!!!! I've literally being saying that for years. He comes up short against the elite coaches, but he's the best ND has had in a long time. And YES he's a good (I'd say OK, but I'll accept good) recruiter. The whole point of this conversation is what he's not an ELITE recruiter. That's why he doesn't get more ELITE recruits and that's why when he goes up against another coach of his caliber, who is an ELITE recruiter, he gets his teeth kicked in...

The old saying rings true "It's not the X's and the O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's".

You lecture me about nuance in one discussion, then refuse to accept any in the next conversation.

Brian Kelly is clearly trying to win a National Championship. It's the final step in an otherwise stellar coaching career that might wind up come short of the ultimate goal. My assertion is that if he devoted the time and energy to become the obsessed recruiter that Urban Meyer or Dabo Swinney is, he could take a jump from excellent coach and good recruiter, to excellent coach and excellent recruiter, which, IMO, would give his program the best chance at winning a title.

That's been my point all along!

 

[IrishInOntario]

No Ive debated you multiple times and it was never a problem us going back and forth. but it seems like your know it all style has gotten worse. Or maybe it's these few topics you think you know more and can do it better than the coach. Or you make it seem like you know everything and all Kelly has to do is this this and this. Like you know what hes doing and what hes not. If Kelly just listens to you everything will be better. You sounded super arrogant this time.

Can I ask, genuinely, what your profession is? I mean that sincerely. My point will follow.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Who, me? Nobody important. Though you did keep it to three paragraphs, so that's good. And no, I don't have much of a desire to participate in a healthy debate with the likes of you. You'll have to forgive me.

'Cause I love my coach Brian Kelly! The fact that he doesn't pick it up when the kid tells him to is fine by me. I'll live with it.

That's fine. Love away. You do you.

 

[Golson5]

He's an excellent coach!!!! I've literally being saying that for years. He comes up short against the elite coaches, but he's the best ND has had in a long time. And YES he's a good (I'd say OK, but I'll accept good) recruiter. The whole point of this conversation is what he's not an ELITE recruiter. That's why he doesn't get more ELITE recruits and that's why when he goes up against another coach of his caliber, who is an ELITE recruiter, he gets his teeth kicked in...

The old saying rings true "It's not the X's and the O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's".

You lecture me about nuance in one discussion, then refuse to accept any in the next conversation.

Brian Kelly is clearly trying to win a National Championship. It's the final step in an otherwise stellar coaching career that might wind up come short of the ultimate goal. My assertion is that if he devoted the time and energy to become the obsessed recruiter that Urban Meyer or Dabo Swinney is, he could take a jump from excellent coach and good recruiter, to excellent coach and excellent recruiter, which, IMO, would give his program the best chance at winning a title.

That's been my point all along!

If that has been your point all along we wouldnt be debating. Id agree. You made it sound multiple times like Kelly is a weak recruiter who can be lazy and does the bare minimum.

Hes also won battles against elite coaches throughout the years. Another point you're acting like he gets his teeth kicked in all the time. Somehow hes getting really good players

Kelly is not an elite recruiter. Not on Sabans level obviously. But put Saban here and he is not getting top 2 classes every single year like he does at Bama. This is a harding place to recuit than a lot of coaches and places you vare comparing him to.

A lot of these coaches wouldnt want the challenge Kelly took

 

[savvyandsassier]

That's fine. Love away. You do you.

Wow, nothing flusters you, does it? Well, that is a known Canadian trait. How did you become a ND fan anyway, up there in the great white north? I know they have football up there but the end zones are 20 yards long!

See, now we're having a conversation after all. It appears I spoke too soon.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Wow, nothing flusters you, does it? Well, that is a known Canadian trait. How did you become a ND fan anyway, up there in the great white north? I know they have football up there but the end zones are 20 yards long!

See, now we're having a conversation after all. It appears I spoke too soon.

A Catholic dad who loves the Irish, the same NBC contract that brings the Irish to millions of Americans, countless trips to see them play as a kid, an exchange to ND for a semester while in university, a job with ISD covering the team and their recruiting are among the highlights... I'll spare you the 3 paragraph version.

 

[IrishInOntario]

If that has been your point all along we wouldnt be debating. Id agree. You made it sound multiple times like Kelly is a weak recruiter who can be lazy and does the bare minimum.

Hes also won battles against elite coaches throughout the years. Another point you're acting like he gets his teeth kicked in all the time. Somehow hes getting really good players

Kelly is not an elite recruiter. Not on Sabans level obviously. But put Saban here and he is not getting top 2 classes every single year like he does at Bama. This is a harding place to recuit than a lot of coaches and places you vare comparing him to.

A lot of these coaches wouldnt want the challenge Kelly took

I called him a "notoriously average" recruiter. You are the one that changed the narrative to "terrible."You tell me excersize nuance in conversation. I'd say there is a shit ton of nuance between "average" (my words) and "terrible" your words.

My assertion is that any good coach that can win 9-10 games per year at ND can recruit in the top 20. You actually have to be lacking any form of effort (Willingham) to recruit outside of that if you can coach. I think a great recruiter tops out in the #5-#6 class range on average if he's winning and recruiting st a high level at ND. Brian Kelly has averaged the #12 class at ND since 2016 when he revamped the program and started winning a ton of games. That means, in my mind, that he's recruiting about 8 spots above what I consider the baseline for the program (#20) and about 6-7 spots below what I think the max average could be. In my mind, considering his on field success, that keeps him average in the recruiting department, trending towards good. If he gets up in that #5-#6 range that he claims he's capable of, I'll credit him for becoming and excellent recruiter.

 

[savvyandsassier]

He's an excellent coach!!!! I've literally being saying that for years. He comes up short against the elite coaches, but he's the best ND has had in a long time. And YES he's a good (I'd say OK, but I'll accept good) recruiter. The whole point of this conversation is what he's not an ELITE recruiter. That's why he doesn't get more ELITE recruits and that's why when he goes up against another coach of his caliber, who is an ELITE recruiter, he gets his teeth kicked in...

The old saying rings true "It's not the X's and the O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's".

You lecture me about nuance in one discussion, then refuse to accept any in the next conversation.

Brian Kelly is clearly trying to win a National Championship. It's the final step in an otherwise stellar coaching career that might wind up come short of the ultimate goal. My assertion is that if he devoted the time and energy to become the obsessed recruiter that Urban Meyer or Dabo Swinney is, he could take a jump from excellent coach and good recruiter, to excellent coach and excellent recruiter, which, IMO, would give his program the best chance at winning a title.

That's been my point all along!

Okay, good, good.... we got it now. If BK did a better job than he currently does, we might do even better than we already do, and possibly win more games. It goes without saying that a NC is the ultimate goal, but we'll say it anyway, etc. Glad we got that settled!

In any event, I've enjoyed my little late night posting on what is possibly the most toxic message board in the entire ND football online community, outside of ND Nation, naturally. And you're kind of like the more refined elder statesman of all the Kelly/Book haters here, is what I've sort of gathered perusing through this board once in a while. Not to mention Canadian. I used to be a long time member of the regular pay board, for like, I don't know, almost 15 years now, but even that place was getting to be too toxic, and I always considered it the most tolerable forum when it came to bitter, snide or know-it-all fans who sort of bring it down for everyone else. So even though I'm a lifelong ND fan from birth I'm taking a break. But I can still come here to catch up on the latest goings-on, as well as get a nice dose of Book and Kelly bashing to keep me honest.

And the thing that gets me, is when we're finally winning, and BK is finally making good on what I as his most devoted and unconditional supporter had such high hopes for from the beginning, it's just such a nightmare to witness this pathological fan hating on their own team reach such a peak. And it really seems like it's peaking. And it's never been louder or more strident and unbearable. The more we win the more toxic and fanatical it gets. And the disconnect between the success on the field, and the absurdity of the unrelenting hostility is too much. I mean sure, if we're going 8-4 and sort of underachieving, what do you expect? But not when were clearing 10 wins a season and we even made the playoff! And as for Ian Book, don't even get me started. I don't give a shit about his failings or shortcomings, I watch all the games, I already know what they are. I don't need them recited to me or grossly exaggerated every time I want to talk a little ND football. He will always be one of my favorite all-time players who got us to the playoff and completed ND's return to the front ranks of CFB. Ian Book rocks! As to PJ, there's really not much to say, except we hardly knew ya! And good luck to him, I guess, it was just his bad luck to be stuck behind Ian Book. And the fact that he was maybe even a worse passer than Brandon Wimbush if that's even possible.

So with all that said.... I'm probably going to re-join the regular subscriber board at some point, but perhaps you could use your influence to maybe soften things up a little bit, and get the gang to go a little easier. You're a man of respect around here, after all - and Canadian. They're not going to fire BK, of course. And Ian Book's going to be the starter.

So anyway, I guess I said what I wanted to get off my chest. I appreciate you lending me your ear, and why don't you yourself consider joining the pay board instead of hanging around this cesspool? It's a thought! Good night from America!

 

[d1042]

Well, if I got banned for a week.... I would probably take my punishment... what made me laugh (and Chase has yet to address) is that he had an account made BEFORE he was banned.... which leads one to think he may have more.... which is borderline crazy?

duh! you been here on game days? the aliases abound!
The posts/posters reported are heavily skewed towards those not in the ‘pro BK’ camp. The reporters clearly are not happy with free expression or opinion diversity.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Why the constant personal attacks? Are people not allowed to have opinions? Just because you disagree doesn't mean you have to fill threads with the constant diatribes everytime someone you disagree with posts.

If you do disagree just tell him why and discuss it. If not you end up with muddied up threads with people having to defend themselves for having an opinion. It ruins the board. Either way there's no reason to be that bothered over someone disagreeing with you, everyone has the right to their own opinions.

I'm not sure how anything you quoted was a personal attack. I'm responding to someone who does exactly what you're telling me not to do, which to be clear I do not participate in. I'm sorry but simply having an opinion just to have one that isn't based off of nothing isn't good enough for me. If challenging posters to provide facts to support their opinions is too much to ask then what's the point of conversing at all? Holding someone accountable for what they post is apparently looked down upon here, at least that's the sense I am getting.

This dude types 5-8 paragraphs of slights before ever making a point, so I'm just responding. I guess you didn't care to see that before quoting me though. You can look at what I post to people who have a clue or some sense of what's going on. It's hard to demand quality post from me and not the posters I'm challenging.

 

[deadprez3]

So let me apply your elitist "he's accomplished more than you so stfu" attitude to Brian Kelly... By your metric, the guy clearly doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground compared to Dabo, Meyer, Saban, Fisher, etc, right?... Because all of those guys have achieved more than him in the sport and have actually won the national championship that he lacks. 3 of those 4 guys have won it multiple times.

So if you don't believe me because I'm not as successful of a football coach as Brian Kelly, then believe the guys running laps around him.

You haven't achieved top 0.0001% level coaching success in the sport, nor made millions doing it so you can't have a clue what you're talking about in a specific niche area of sport... What a gem.

I fear you may have just murdered the persona of Golson5 via written blunt force trauma to the head.

Sheer, unadulterated logic.

He would be a fool to continue such discourse with this extreme logically fallacy clearly defined for him.....and yet he persists....clearly one can observe our collective plight.

 

[deadprez3]

You can look at what I post to people who have a clue or some sense of what's going on.

I will translate this comment for the unindoctrinated:

If you happen to hold the same opinion on a subject matter as Catholicfan95 then you are automatically a smart and articulate poster no matter how you choose to conduct yourself. Even if in actuality you engage in the type of activities he often times fault in others for doing.

Shall you happen to disagree with one of Catholicfan95's opinions then of course you are automatically wrong. He will let you know this in a terse response and make it clear there is no further need for discussion on the matter because his opinion is clearly correct and a universal truth on the subject matter at hand. There will be no accompanying support for why you must accept his opinion as such. It is only expected that you dutifully comply.

Shall at this point you choose to not give into his demand for the preposterous reason that you believe people to have their own free will and you begin to engage in a line of discourse with him which includes a respectful retort supported with evidence to the contrary you can anticipate that his response will include:

1) An initial admonishment that you are challenging his opinion which, as we noted above, is to be accepted as the universal truth

2) No actual and direct refute from him to respond to the counterpoint that you presented regarding his believed to be universal truth

3) In absence of an actual and direct refute to your counterpoint his response will then include one or a combination of the following debate fallacies: a red herring, non sequitur, or ad hominem attack

Engage him if you must, but as we bring light to the situation I think we will find a dwindling supply of active participants. Except of course those others too that follow a similar level of discourse. I trust no one wants this type of stigma attached to their online persona on this message board.

Moths to a flame....

 

[nemeth#5]

I will translate this comment for the unindoctrinated:

If you happen to hold the same opinion on a subject matter as Catholicfan95 then you are automatically a smart and articulate poster no matter how you choose to conduct yourself. Even if in actuality you engage in the type of activities he often times fault in others for doing.

Shall you happen to disagree with one of Catholicfan95's opinions then of course you are automatically wrong. He will let you know this in a terse response and make it clear there is no further need for discussion on the matter because his opinion is clearly correct and a universal truth on the subject matter at hand. There will be no accompanying support for why you must accept his opinion as such. It is only expected that you dutifully comply.

Shall at this point you choose to not give into his demand for the preposterous reason that you believe people to have their own free will and you begin to engage in a line of discourse with him which includes a respectful retort supported with evidence to the contrary you can anticipate that his response will include:

1) An initial admonishment that you are challenging his opinion which, as we noted above, is to be accepted as the universal truth

2) No actual and direct refute from him to respond to the counterpoint that you presented regarding his believed to be universal truth

3) In absence of an actual and direct refute to your counterpoint his response will then include one or a combination of the following debate fallacies: a red herring, non sequitur, or ad hominem attack

Engage him if you must, but as we bring light to the situation I think we will find a dwindling supply of active participants. Except of course those others too that follow a similar level of discourse. I trust no one wants this type of stigma attached to their online persona on this message board.

Moths to a flame....

Damn Chase..... one account you cant go two sentences without quoting FP+..... and on this account you write like a civil war soldier writing home.

 

[Catholicfan95]

I will translate this comment for the unindoctrinated:

If you happen to hold the same opinion on a subject matter as Catholicfan95 then you are automatically a smart and articulate poster no matter how you choose to conduct yourself. Even if in actuality you engage in the type of activities he often times fault in others for doing.

Shall you happen to disagree with one of Catholicfan95's opinions then of course you are automatically wrong. He will let you know this in a terse response and make it clear there is no further need for discussion on the matter because his opinion is clearly correct and a universal truth on the subject matter at hand. There will be no accompanying support for why you must accept his opinion as such. It is only expected that you dutifully comply.

Shall at this point you choose to not give into his demand for the preposterous reason that you believe people to have their own free will and you begin to engage in a line of discourse with him which includes a respectful retort supported with evidence to the contrary you can anticipate that his response will include:

1) An initial admonishment that you are challenging his opinion which, as we noted above, is to be accepted as the universal truth

2) No actual and direct refute from him to respond to the counterpoint that you presented regarding his believed to be universal truth

3) In absence of an actual and direct refute to your counterpoint his response will then include one or a combination of the following debate fallacies: a red herring, non sequitur, or ad hominem attack

Engage him if you must, but as we bring light to the situation I think we will find a dwindling supply of active participants. Except of course those others too that follow a similar level of discourse. I trust no one wants this type of stigma attached to their online persona on this message board.

Moths to a flame....

No, just saying if you want to have an opinion about something base it off of facts. I am more than happy to meet in the middle with people that pose thought out counter arguments, and I have proven that a multitude of times on this board.

If we are debating a subjective matter like music, art or culture then you can have a baseless opinion because the topic is subjective. Sports can be subjective too and their are times here that I have to respect opposite opinions despite my disagreement.

I think it is fair to assume that a lot of people here do not get challenged on things they say and feel personally attacked when they have to face the music. I do not understand why I have to keep explaining this to you.

 

[deadprez3]

Damn Chase..... one account you cant go two sentences without quoting FP+..... and on this account you write like a civil war soldier writing home.

I trust you saw my response to this assertion a few days ago. If not, I can reconstruct it for you.

For some reason it must have struck a cord for I did not receive a customary witty response nor even a "like".

Also, for some reason, the post was removed from the board--no doubt at another's request.

One can only conclude as to this mystery.

 

[deadprez3]

feel personally attacked

Ahh, what a revelation!

It appears you do hold the capacity for self reflection!

 

[nemeth#5]

I trust you saw my response to this assertion a few days ago. If not, I can reconstruct it for you.

For some reason it must have struck a cord for I did not receive a customary witty response nor even a "like".

Also, for some reason, the post was removed from the board--no doubt at another's request.

One can only conclude as to this mystery.

I dont think I seen it Chase. . .

 

[deadprez3]

I dont think I seen it Chase. . .

That would seem unlikely given the rapid rate at which our engagement was proceeding at the time.

Through observation in the glee by which you made light of chaseball I thought you game for a good natured ribbing from time to time.

How's Auntie Nemeth?

 

[Catholicfan95]

Ahh, what a revelation!

It appears you do hold the capacity for self reflection!

You just took out an excerpt of a quote that has nothing to do with this? "I think it is fair to assume that a lot of people here do not get challenged on things they say and feel personally attacked when they have to face the music". Entire quote.

You are a sad, strange little man and you have my pity. Farewell.

 

[nemeth#5]

That would seem unlikely given the rapid rate at which our engagement was proceeding at the time.

Through observation in the glee by which you made light of chaseball I thought you game for a good natured ribbing from time to time.

How's Auntie Nemeth?

always down for some back and forth...... And how is Auntie? Which one... I have 3 lol?

 

[deadprez3]

You just took out an excerpt of a quote that has nothing to do with this? "I think it is fair to assume that a lot of people here do not get challenged on things they say and feel personally attacked when they have to face the music". Entire quote.

You are a sad, strange little man and you have my pity. Farewell.

Exhibiting a willingness to concede a point!

My we are making such progress this morning! Truly the genesis of a breakthrough!

As we progress, you will be able to concede the point absent the ad hominem attack.

Baby steps....

 

[deadprez3]

always down for some back and forth...... And how is Auntie? Which one... I have 3 lol?

Surely you jest...

Why then have my response removed two days prior?

Regrettably, I over estimated your level of self assurance.

I suppose at least I wasn't required to procure a new username. However I am finding the removal of a post for which I found so much self amusement crafting to be the greater nuisance.

 

[nemeth#5]

Surely you jest...

Why then have my response removed two days prior?

Regrettably, I over estimated your level of self assurance.

I suppose at least I wasn't required to procure a new username. However I am finding the removal of a post for which I found so much self amusement crafting to be the greater nuisance.

 

[Golson5]

I fear you may have just murdered the persona of Golson5 via written blunt force trauma to the head.

Sheer, unadulterated logic.

He would be a fool to continue such discourse with this extreme logically fallacy clearly defined for him.....and yet he persists....clearly one can observe our collective plight.

It's funny Chase when you like your posts from your alias account. That is sad and pathetic. You don't have a clue. Stick to your F minus BS.

 

[deadprez3]

It's funny Chase when you like your posts from your alias account. That is sad and pathetic. You don't have a clue. Stick to your F minus BS.

Golson5 my good man!

You did in fact survive the blow IIO administrated to your head! What good fortune for us all!

Of course, given that I also show favor to the posts and content of IIO with various "likes" and responses in agreement--must we conclude also that I be in actuality IIO as well?

Be that as such, I do apologize for the injury that I administrated to your head and ego in the wee hours of the morning today.

Fortunately you survived and can now continue to regale the board with your always thoughtful and insightful content. And the way in which you articulate it all?.....simply breathtaking!

And let us also not over look your prolific wit and cleverness! For the assertion that I and chase be one in the same is not yet a comment that has been uttered by some of the other board stalwarts such as nemeth#5 and Catholicfan95.

And were they to have uttered the same, shall we not conclude, using the applications of deduction, that all three of you be one conspiring individual utilizing multiple user accounts? Or shall that application of that deduction be absent in situations regarding yourself(selves?)?

Certainly a paradox uninterested parties must ponder.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Golson5 my good man!

You did in fact survive the blow IIO administrated to your head! What good fortune for us all!

Of course, given that I also show favor to the posts and content of IIO with various "likes" and responses in agreement--must we conclude also that I be in actuality IIO as well?

Be that as such, I do apologize for the injury that I administrated to your head and ego in the wee hours of the morning today.

Fortunately you survived and can now continue to regale the board with your always thoughtful and insightful content. And the way in which you articulate it all?.....simply breathtaking!

And let us also not over look your prolific wit and cleverness! For the assertion that I and chase be one in the same is not yet a comment that has been uttered by some of the other board stalwarts such as nemeth#5 and Catholicfan95.

And were they to have uttered the same, shall we not conclude, using the applications of deduction, that all three of you be one conspiring individual utilizing multiple user accounts? Or shall that application of that deduction be absent in situations regarding yourself(selves?)?

Certainly a paradox uninterested parties must ponder.

You need the freaking Rosetta stone to get through this post. Feels like youre walking through the woods and branches keep hitting you in the face with all this literary nonsense.

Just to point out, I never said you were Chase, I said you were another poster seeing as this account is from 2009 and it just got active and you said "I have been on this board for years, I just do not post much" which was hilarious seeing what you have become. Just to be clear, if you are going to try and insult me make sure you are getting the facts right.

 

[deadprez3]

You need the freaking Rosetta stone to get through this post. Feels like youre walking through the woods and branches keep hitting you in the face with all this literary nonsense.

Just to point out, I never said you were Chase, I said you were another poster seeing as this account is from 2009 and it just got active and you said "I have been on this board for years, I just do not post much" which was hilarious seeing what you have become. Just to be clear, if you are going to try and insult me make sure you are getting the facts right.

I would disagree with your claim to innocence on the matter.

Were I to catalog your posting contents in the same manner for which you do of others I would present the contents to show your guilt. Be that however that I find myself to be of sound mind and body, I do not engage in such activities. Given these factors we will just have to "agree to disagree" on the matter.

As for your continued preoccupation with the date on which I procured my current username, I drafted a thorough account on the matter some two days ago.

Unfortunately, also contained within that same post, was an attempt at some good natured ribbing with nemeth#5. Though I was unaware at the time, he does not actually possess the laid back and impenetrable demeanor which he gives great care crafting on this board and as such had my post removed. An action that still yet two days later brings me much discontentment as I was very much amused with its contents and it also contained the explanation regarding the origins of my username.

However, I can sense the uneasiness that the origination date of my username presents to you and thusly for your relief I will once again explain it.

When I went to secure a username to begin posting on this board I utilized my preferred email account. This was convenient for me to do so given most of the activity I conduct on the internet is via my phone and the email address is readily accessible upon it due to various technological advances I no doubt you are aware of. When I applied for a username I received an automated notification from the administrative staff at Rivals.com indicating to me that the username I am currently posting under had already been established under my preferred email address and therefore I could not procure a new and different one.

Logically, I found an already established username registered with my preferred email address to be an agreeable occurrence as it saved me several administrative steps in reaching my ultimate goal of proceeding to post on this message board.

With that said, had I been aware of the anxieties that were to be created here amongst other posters regarding the discrepancy between the origin date of my username and the time at which said posters became aware of my posting presence on this board I might have considered instead taking the time to generate an entirely new address for the sole purpose of ensuring there was no discrepancy in those two dates.

Now I no doubt can project that you will yet still harbor anxieties about how one could have generated a username some nine years ago and not been aware of it at this current day. An anxiety that I might attempt to dispel for you by asking you to be aware that an online username to a message board may not be considered to be of the same worth to another individual as it appears to be for you and thus its establishment may have merely slipped from their consciousness over a nine year period.

And again, although yourself may not choose or consider merely reading the contents of a message board without being an active participant, that has been the reality of my existence for the past several years here.

Now that I have given a thorough account as to the origin date of my username I trust your anxieties on the matter have been laid to rest and we needn't hear your outward expression of those anxieties anymore.

But please, do let me know if you still find exasperation with the situation and I will continue to attempt to quell it as best as possible and as my time reasonably allows.

 

[Catholicfan95]

I would disagree with your claim to innocence on the matter.

Were I to catalog your posting contents in the same manner for which you do of others I would present the contents to show your guilt. Be that however that I find myself to be of sound mind and body, I do not engage in such activities. Given these factors we will just have to "agree to disagree" on the matter.

As for your continued preoccupation with the date on which I procured my current username, I drafted a thorough account on the matter some two days ago.

Unfortunately, also contained within that same post, was an attempt at some good natured ribbing with nemeth#5. Though I was unaware at the time, he does not actually possess the laid back and impenetrable demeanor which he gives great care crafting on this board and as such had my post removed. An action that still yet two days later brings me much discontentment as I was very much amused with its contents and it also contained the explanation regarding the origins of my username.

However, I can sense the uneasiness that the origination date of my username presents to you and thusly for your relief I will once again explain it.

When I went to secure a username to begin posting on this board I utilized my preferred email account. This was convenient for me to do so given most of the activity I conduct on the internet is via my phone and the email address is readily accessible upon it due to various technological advances I no doubt you are aware of. When I applied for a username I received an automated notification from the administrative staff at Rivals.com indicating to me that the username I am currently posting under had already been established under my preferred email address and therefore I could not procure a new and different one.

Logically, I found an already established username registered with my preferred email address to be an agreeable occurrence as it saved me several administrative steps in reaching my ultimate goal of proceeding to post on this message board.

With that said, had I been aware of the anxieties that were to be created here amongst other posters regarding the discrepancy between the origin date of my username and the time at which said posters became aware of my posting presence on this board I might have considered instead taking the time to generate an entirely new address for the sole purpose of ensuring there was no discrepancy in those two dates.

Now I no doubt can project that you will yet still harbor anxieties about how one could have generated a username some nine years ago and not been aware of it at this current day. An anxiety that I might attempt to dispel for you by asking you to be aware that an online username to a message board may not be considered to be of the same worth to another individual as it appears to be for you and thus its establishment may have merely slipped from their consciousness over a nine year period.

And again, although yourself may not choose or consider merely reading the contents of a message board without being an active participant, that has been the reality of my existence for the past several years here.

Now that I have given a thorough account as to the origin date of my username I trust your anxieties on the matter have been laid to rest and we needn't hear your outward expression of those anxieties anymore.

But please, do let me know if you still find exasperation with the situation and I will continue to attempt to quell it as best as possible and as my time reasonably allows.

I didn't read one word of this, I just saw it was for you and figured I'd let you know, your opinion and post mean nothing to me. I'm here for Nd sports.

 

[deadprez3]

I didn't read one word of this, I just saw it was for you and figured I'd let you know, your opinion and post mean nothing to me. I'm here for Nd sports.

I can attest to its contents and assure you that it contains no opinions.

It is merely an explanation as to the origin date of my username.

I inferred (incorrectly it appears) that you had at least some interest or preoccupation as to the origin date of my username as you have broached the subject a good many times now.

My mistake.

I'm glad to hear you clearly articulate that you are only here because of your interests in the pursuits of the University of Notre Dame's athletic teams.

It would seem that your propensity to veer off into other tangents might suggest that there otherwise be reasons for your presence on this board.

To assist, I will be sure to make you aware of when it appears you have fallen of course from your such stated intent here.

In any event, the explanation for my username origin date is explained in the aforementioned post should curiosity get the best of you.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

I called him a "notoriously average" recruiter. You are the one that changed the narrative to "terrible."You tell me excersize nuance in conversation. I'd say there is a shit ton of nuance between "average" (my words) and "terrible" your words.

My assertion is that any good coach that can win 9-10 games per year at ND can recruit in the top 20. You actually have to be lacking any form of effort (Willingham) to recruit outside of that if you can coach. I think a great recruiter tops out in the #5-#6 class range on average if he's winning and recruiting st a high level at ND. Brian Kelly has averaged the #12 class at ND since 2016 when he revamped the program and started winning a ton of games. That means, in my mind, that he's recruiting about 8 spots above what I consider the baseline for the program (#20) and about 6-7 spots below what I think the max average could be. In my mind, considering his on field success, that keeps him average in the recruiting department, trending towards good. If he gets up in that #5-#6 range that he claims he's capable of, I'll credit him for becoming and excellent recruiter.

IIO, while I have no personal knowledge of BK's recruiting practices nor those of his coaching competitors, I will accept your observation, as one who has closely followed CFB recruiting for a number of years, that BK needs to step up his game and become more personally invested in the process. That seems to be a fair criticism. But there is one overarching fact about recruiting that many of the BK critics (I don't necessarily include you among those) always seem to minimize, or worse yet, dismiss or ignore entirely: ND simply can't go after many of the same kids that Bama, Clemson, LSU and OSU do. It is irrefutable that: (1) kids that come to ND have to have at least a modicum of smarts; and (2) they have to come to ND prepared to go to class. Those who would deny those facts are being disingenuous. At the end of the day, those things make the pool of recruits we can go after significantly smaller. (How much smaller is a matter of speculation, I suppose, but there is no denying that the universe of recruits we can pursue doesn't have as many stars in it.) As BK has characterized the problem, ND isn't shopping in the same aisle of the supermarket. On top of that, ND is at a geographic recruiting disadvantage to those other schools.

Many argue these factors are just excuse making, i.e, that ND football players aren't rocket scientists and doctors, and we have the same ability as any school to recruit the players who are difference makers the minute they step foot on campus. I'm sorry, I don't buy that argument. When I see some of these 5-star players get interviewed at HS all-star games and they can barely articulate a coherent sentence, I know that is a kid that ND could never have recruited. And when Joe Burrow and Justin Fields are able to take all of their classes online, that could never happen at ND. Aside from the fact that it creates a system rife with the possibility of cheating, it doesn't integrate the player into the student body and is yet another chip in the model of the student-athlete. And for better or worse, a bedrock of ND's athletic program is the concept of the student athlete. Maybe that will change one day--I hope it doesn't--but that is a constraint imposed on BK by ND's administration that coaches at other P5 programs don't have to deal with.

As previously stated, I think it is a fair criticism that BK needs to become more personally involved in the recruitment of key players. Based upon some of the recent recruiting articles I've read, he appears to recognize that. (Whether BK will change his practices, the proof will be in the pudding, as the saying goes.) But BK and his staff could be doing all the things that make Saban, Dabo and Coach O dynamic recruiters, and still never match their successes simply because we have a smaller pool of recruits that we can target.

To be sure, these are self-imposed constraints that ND operates under. But they are constraints nonetheless, and for BK's critics to rip him for not being able to recruit with the "elite" programs while operating under constraints that he did not create isn't entirely fair to him. This is not a "we're ND and we're holier than thou" position, this is a recognition of reality. Personally I would like to see ND go back to the days when it took in a Prop 48 candidate or two every year (I am not sure what they call that program now). I believe you have advocated something along similar lines. Tony Rice and Chris Zorich, by all accounts, turned out to be good ambassadors for ND. Should that occur I suppose ND's critics will scream that ND is selling its soul to the devil, but I see giving a helping hand to someone who can use it to better himself (and maybe, if they are really good, society as well) as being entirely consistent with the Catholic mission of the university.