Since I believe in life hereafter, I'll be patient and wait to find out if I was right or wrong about these issues. In the meantime, I believe in God and believe He loves all people and will forgive us no matter what we think or do if we ask Him.
Socal's AD skipping Indy meeting
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"There is not a true Christian alive that would set up camps or lift a finger to hurt any human being. I can't say that about the anti Christian left though. "
So you have knowledge of the so-called anti-Christian left setting up camps to hurt human beings? Care to share the FACTS about those camps?
Christians are not under attack. Some people do oppose the political views of extremist Christaians who are trying to force a religious state on the rest of the population. These extremist Christians share more in common with extremist Muslims than they do with the principles of America.
So you have knowledge of the so-called anti-Christian left setting up camps to hurt human beings? Care to share the FACTS about those camps?
Christians are not under attack. Some people do oppose the political views of extremist Christaians who are trying to force a religious state on the rest of the population. These extremist Christians share more in common with extremist Muslims than they do with the principles of America.
Some years ago in Minnesota, select Muslim taxi drivers refused to transport folks if the passengers were carrying alcohol claiming it violated their beliefs. Of course, these drivers were corrected by the legal system that they did not have that choice as they were operating a secular business and could not pick and choose their passengers.
These are not issues of freedoms. Go join a religious commune if those are the only viewpoints with which you wish to interact. Leave the rest, and majority, of the country alone
These are not issues of freedoms. Go join a religious commune if those are the only viewpoints with which you wish to interact. Leave the rest, and majority, of the country alone
Pers, my answer is no. Understand that I am not totally ignorant of Christianity. I have 15 years of Catholic Education (St. Joseph Nuns, Dominicans, Jesuits, and Holy Cross fathers). My understanding of Jesus was that he was generally accepting and loving. He lost his temper with merchants and lenders who were taking advantage of people at the Temple. He accepted sinners and loved them.
I truly believe that if Jesus was who he said he was, he would accept and honor same sex marriage and he would disapprove of anyone who would discriminate against others just because they don't share a common belief.
This post was edited on 4/2 12:19 PM by Irish Duck
I truly believe that if Jesus was who he said he was, he would accept and honor same sex marriage and he would disapprove of anyone who would discriminate against others just because they don't share a common belief.
This post was edited on 4/2 12:19 PM by Irish Duck
"Fox News contributor and openly-gay woman Tammy Bruce warned LGBT people against turning into fascists while opposing the controversial Indiana law.
"If there's anyone in the world who should understand the vulnerability of being a minority, of being somebody that maybe others don't understand or relate to, the vulnerability about work and jobs, being able to live your life as you see fit, it's the gay community," Bruce said.
Bruce concluded that defending the right of Christians is "exactly what we should be doing.""
http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/gay-fox-news-guest-cautions-lgbt-people-against-being-%E2%80%98fascists%E2%80%99-over-indiana-law-video/ar-AAalvEV
"If there's anyone in the world who should understand the vulnerability of being a minority, of being somebody that maybe others don't understand or relate to, the vulnerability about work and jobs, being able to live your life as you see fit, it's the gay community," Bruce said.
Bruce concluded that defending the right of Christians is "exactly what we should be doing.""
http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/gay-fox-news-guest-cautions-lgbt-people-against-being-%E2%80%98fascists%E2%80%99-over-indiana-law-video/ar-AAalvEV
I think the issue is doinbg on the job. While it is true he is not paid by the committee he is paid by SC. He does not take vacation time to go and does not front his won costs. So the issue os not personal beleif but jon performance.
I have personally heard the same thing from Muslim Cab drivers here in Chicago. Ironically, the last time I heard it was taking a bottle of wine to the home of a westernized Muslim friend. Some drivers have even stated to me, with great disdain, that they won't transport drunk women. Choosing to engage in a licensed business that serves the general public may indeed require reasonable limitations on our ability to fully exercise our religious beliefs. I completely get that.
But I can't accept that religious freedom allows us to follow our conscience only within our place of worship, our own home, or some isolated compound. Surely we don't lose our right to follow our conscience by stepping in public.
About 10 years ago, Notre Dame hired a Muslim scholar,Tariq Ramadan, whose academic work was about how to bridge the Muslim and Western worlds. He believed that Muslims could live in both the Muslim and Western world. Muslims claimed he wasn't Muslim enough. Westerners claimed he wasn't Western enough. He denounced violence, condemned 9/11, criticized Saudi Arabia for human rights violations, and criticized Bush's middle east policies as ineffective for producing change. The US State Department refused to issue him a visa. Apparently he was a threat to America. Now he teaches at Oxford.
Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable if Muslims around the country were isolating themselves in compounds to freely exercise their religion. I don't want that from any religious group. I'd rather have people working to live lives of faith within a secular society. Isolation isn't an option.
All of us need to compromise. In my opinion, that's what's wrong with the situation. Its been treated as an issue in which neither side can compromise. We can't compromise our moral integrity. We can't compromise our right to be treated equally. Rather than striking a compromise, lawmakers picked a winner because they had the votes to do so. Now they're dealing with the consequences.
Everyone's asserting rights. Me, Me, Me. Nobody cares about civic duty anymore. We're Americans. We don't owe anyone anything.
Democracy is a process. Eventually we'll work this stuff out. We have to.
This post was edited on 4/2 5:13 PM by IRISHJD98
Save the lecture. That garbage doesn't work on me. I absolutely have no value or respect in your opinion anyway so save your breath. It's impossible to have any sensible discussion with an inanimate object. This is has been my experience with you.
Irish Jack, it is too bad that you won't engage in intelligent debate. You might actually learn something by listening to opposing points of view.
I wonder if you might think about limiting your statement ahout Christian not being under attack. they are in Nothern India, Sri Lank and the middle east. Hundreds are killed every year for their faith. I asumme you meant they are not locally under attck here in the US. Do I have that right?
This post was edited on 4/2 8:31 PM by beachcardinal
For example
Beachcardinal: "I wonder if you might think about limiting your statement ahout Christian not being under attack. they are in Nothern India, Sri Lank and the middle east. Hundreds are killed every year for their faith. I asumme you meant they are not locally under attck here in the US. Do I have that right?"
Christians referenced in my statement are not under attack by anti-Christian leftists, the claim in the post from which I quoted.
Christians referenced in my statement are not under attack by anti-Christian leftists, the claim in the post from which I quoted.
IrishJack: "Save the lecture. That garbage doesn't work on me. I absolutely have no value or respect in your opinion anyway so save your breath. It's impossible to have any sensible discussion with an inanimate object. This is has been my experience with you."
There is no lecture; just stating my opinion. Your response does support an assertion that you are both myopic and intellectually immature if you are unwilling to consider opposing viewpoints.
There is no lecture; just stating my opinion. Your response does support an assertion that you are both myopic and intellectually immature if you are unwilling to consider opposing viewpoints.
I always have wonered if those who cite the crusades realize they happened after and in reaction to the Muslim attack on Europe.
This topic has pretty much reached its end and we learned that there are current Irish posters like Granite, nocalirish, and Duck who hold an anti-police and anti-Christian message that is perfectly fine tuned with the mind of Al Sharpton.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
This topic has pretty much reached its end and we learned that there are current Irish posters like Granite, nocalirish, and Duck who hold an anti-police and anti-Christian message that is perfectly fine tuned with the mind of Al Sharpton.
...IrishJack
Satan is going to roast marshmallows and make s'mores off of their eternally burning bodies.
...IrishJack
Satan is going to roast marshmallows and make s'mores off of their eternally burning bodies.
Granite, I'd say that traditional Judeo-Christian values are under attack in today's society. These are the values that have been around for thousands of years, the values upon which Western civilization was built. Some of us believe those values are very important to defend.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Taking pleasure in thinking that people are going to hell sure is a Christian value.Originally posted by Bodizephax:
This topic has pretty much reached its end and we learned that there are current Irish posters like Granite, nocalirish, and Duck who hold an anti-police and anti-Christian message that is perfectly fine tuned with the mind of Al Sharpton.
...IrishJack
Satan is going to roast marshmallows and make s'mores off of their eternally burning bodies.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
NDewing, It was satire. I was joking. How you can't see that baffles me. You need to lighten up Francis..
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
irish jack: "This topic has pretty much reached its end and we learned that there are current Irish posters like Granite, nocalirish, and Duck who hold an anti-police and anti-Christian message that is perfectly fine tuned with the mind of Al Sharpton."
This is plain wrong. And evidence of intellectually-shallow reading.
I have not written any anti-police comments. I have supported the right of the women's basketball team to voice their opinions regarding the issue of police actions.
I have not written anti-Christian messages, but again I have defended the right of others to challenge the Indiana law. I have written some comments criticizing so-called Christians that behave in a way that is wrong; that is criticism of people, not the faith. Christianity is not a problem; the problem is the number of so-called Christians who do not even understand or truly follow their own claimed faith.
This is plain wrong. And evidence of intellectually-shallow reading.
I have not written any anti-police comments. I have supported the right of the women's basketball team to voice their opinions regarding the issue of police actions.
I have not written anti-Christian messages, but again I have defended the right of others to challenge the Indiana law. I have written some comments criticizing so-called Christians that behave in a way that is wrong; that is criticism of people, not the faith. Christianity is not a problem; the problem is the number of so-called Christians who do not even understand or truly follow their own claimed faith.
The poster with minimal posts went off the rails and fired a despicable shot at everything Notre Dame stands for....
This remark below may be the single most bigoted, hateful, uneducated and disrespectful thought I have ever seen posted on this board.
"The ability to escape from petty superstition is beautiful."
This post was edited on 4/3 12:49 PM by cgvr
This remark below may be the single most bigoted, hateful, uneducated and disrespectful thought I have ever seen posted on this board.
"The ability to escape from petty superstition is beautiful."
This post was edited on 4/3 12:49 PM by cgvr
mbd11 posted on 4/3/2015...
"Granite, I'd say that traditional Judeo-Christian values are under attack in today's society. These are the values that have been around for thousands of years, the values upon which Western civilization was built. Some of us believe those values are very important to defend."
-------
I was responding to this post:
"Don't be idiotic. There is not a true Christian alive that would set up camps or lift a finger to hurt any human being. I can't say that about the anti Christian left though. True Christians don't have to run disclaimers or defend ourselves. We know who we are. And right now we are under attack from fellow Americans and our politicians."
The so-called anti-Christian left is not setting up camps to hurt any human beings.
Yes, I agree there are critics who are criticizing Christian values but most often in situations when those values are being inflicted on others by so-called Christians who neither understand their own religion nor by so-called American Christians who do not understand the religious pluralism supported by the Constitution. These individual people do not necessarily deserve protection.
In those situations, many fundamentalist Christians are little different than fundamentalist Muslin seeking sharia law.
Christian values have been around for thousands of years, but it is not a straight line to argue that these values were the foundation of Western civilization. The repeated wars throughout European history do not reflect Christian values, the intolerance of Protestants toward Catholics, the acceptance of slavery, and the exploitation of African and Asian colonialization efforts of Europeans all do not fit with Christian values. Simialar activities happened all throughout history all over the world, so these were not European atrocities only but Christian beliefs did not stop them.
The United States is foremost an Enlightenment country, not a Christian country. Christian values informed the views of Enlightenment thinkers such as Jefferson, but did not define or limit their thinking.
I would prefer a return to Enlightenment values before a simple return to only Judeo-Christian values.
"Granite, I'd say that traditional Judeo-Christian values are under attack in today's society. These are the values that have been around for thousands of years, the values upon which Western civilization was built. Some of us believe those values are very important to defend."
-------
I was responding to this post:
"Don't be idiotic. There is not a true Christian alive that would set up camps or lift a finger to hurt any human being. I can't say that about the anti Christian left though. True Christians don't have to run disclaimers or defend ourselves. We know who we are. And right now we are under attack from fellow Americans and our politicians."
The so-called anti-Christian left is not setting up camps to hurt any human beings.
Yes, I agree there are critics who are criticizing Christian values but most often in situations when those values are being inflicted on others by so-called Christians who neither understand their own religion nor by so-called American Christians who do not understand the religious pluralism supported by the Constitution. These individual people do not necessarily deserve protection.
In those situations, many fundamentalist Christians are little different than fundamentalist Muslin seeking sharia law.
Christian values have been around for thousands of years, but it is not a straight line to argue that these values were the foundation of Western civilization. The repeated wars throughout European history do not reflect Christian values, the intolerance of Protestants toward Catholics, the acceptance of slavery, and the exploitation of African and Asian colonialization efforts of Europeans all do not fit with Christian values. Simialar activities happened all throughout history all over the world, so these were not European atrocities only but Christian beliefs did not stop them.
The United States is foremost an Enlightenment country, not a Christian country. Christian values informed the views of Enlightenment thinkers such as Jefferson, but did not define or limit their thinking.
I would prefer a return to Enlightenment values before a simple return to only Judeo-Christian values.
Beachcardinal: "I always have wonered if those who cite the crusades realize they happened after and in reaction to the Muslim attack on Europe."
I agree that the Crusades can not correctly used to illustrate xenophobic intolerance of Muslims. Certainly the Muslims movements through northern Africa into Spain through 7th and 8th centuries were problematic for Europeans as were the numerous intrusions against Byzantium, but the Crusades still are a problematic issue for Catholic history considering the Crusaders' attacks against Byzantium in the 4th crusade and the crusade against so-called heretical Christian movements such as the Cathars. The Crusades were not simply Christians vs. Muslims.
I agree that the Crusades can not correctly used to illustrate xenophobic intolerance of Muslims. Certainly the Muslims movements through northern Africa into Spain through 7th and 8th centuries were problematic for Europeans as were the numerous intrusions against Byzantium, but the Crusades still are a problematic issue for Catholic history considering the Crusaders' attacks against Byzantium in the 4th crusade and the crusade against so-called heretical Christian movements such as the Cathars. The Crusades were not simply Christians vs. Muslims.
There is more of an indictment for the treatment of non beleivers than the crusades, IMO. Which, though misguided, were little more the an attempt to retake Jerusalem from the Moslems that had conquered it earlier. In light of the Muslim attacks on Europe it is hard for me to see why it is used as a sign of intorelence. I guess I am just saying I agree with you on that point,
Spot on^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
also interesting that the protesters are protesting in AK...
there is no discrimination here. It's people's fundamental right to practice what they believe in. it appears this country is putting the gay cause in front of God....very sad
What do we care. Haden's decision is between him and his employer. Why is it any business of anyone on this board? I have no idea what motivates him to his decision, so I will take him at his word. But the reality is I don't really care.
Haden made it everybody's business and a topic for discussion when he went public with his grand announcement. I assume it is between he and his employer not to go to the other nineteen states that have darn near similar laws. At the time I would have bet a pizza at Memories pizza parlor that he never even read the law and it was all based on emotional assumptions. You want to stay in Cali then stay in Cali without going public if you don't want this discussed. As a lifelong Indiana resident, I could care less what he does. Don't be a hypocrite though and go and visit the other nineteen. That wouldn't be very honorable of the USC AD, now would it?
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