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Where are ALL the Book and Kelly haters???

keep in mind that the more ND loses big game matchups, the more likely that ND will ultimately upset one of those top teams! gonna happen
 
Elite QBs are Unicorns.
Nope, ND has not had an elite QB in decades.

Really, who is the last elite QB to play at ND?

Jimmy?

Before him who?

For whatever reason, ND does not land elite QBs.

I am saying some of the reasons for this is the following:

1. Academic standards. No one on this board can argue that ND does not have a higher academic standard than the majority of programs.

2. Elite QBs like an open offense.

3. If the offense is like an Alabama, they better have championship rings like Alabama.

Three reasons why I believe Brian Kelly and every other ND coach has failed to bring in elite QBs.
 
Elite QBs are Unicorns.
Nope, ND has not had an elite QB in decades.

Really, who is the last elite QB to play at ND?

Jimmy?

Before him who?

For whatever reason, ND does not land elite QBs.

I am saying some of the reasons for this is the following:

1. Academic standards. No one on this board can argue that ND does not have a higher academic standard than the majority of programs.

2. Elite QBs like an open offense.

3. If the offense is like an Alabama, they better have championship rings like Alabama.

Three reasons why I believe Brian Kelly and every other ND coach has failed to bring in elite QBs.
I don’t think your reasons are accurate. Our academic standards is not deterring us from landing an elite QB. For example, J Fields is incredibly smart, offered by Harvard and Yale. Is the pool smaller? Sure, but not by that much. I also believe our offense is as open as most elite programs. It just doesn’t seem like it because we lack the skill players at WR and we lack good, consistent QB play. Wasn’t our offense pretty explosive in 2015 with Fuller and Procise? We averaged 7.0 yards per play that season.....to put that into perspective, that is what Clemson averages the last couple of seasons with Lawrence.

I believe we fail to land that elite QB prospect because of our recruiting identity. What is ND known for in the recruiting landscape? Getting elite OL and TEs. That’s good but the elite QBs want to play with elite WRs. I believe we need to change the perception of our program so that we’re not just a OL/TE factory. We need to start landing more elite WRs every year. Then the next step is to develop a QB to get that good consistent play out of him. We’ve recruited 4 top 100 QBs in the BK era (Phil, Wimbush, PYne, Buchner) plus legit 4-stars in Kizer and Zaire. That’s better than what OSU has recruited in the last few years. The difference is that OSU has had a lot more explosive athletes on the outside that can take a slant pass and go for 50yds. We saw that when they demolished Michigan a couple years ago....so their offense looks more ”open” and explosive but really they just have better athletes.

Anyways, just my 0.02. Feel free to pick it apart.
 
Watson was a composite 4 star. BK recruited 5 composite 4 stars

Lawrence was recruited after Clemson won a natty. Amazing what winning vs elite teams does for recruiting.

Why is it so hard to admit BK failed the QB position?
He has failed in evaluating QBs. Never said otherwise.

Dont care if Watson was a 2 star. They landed an elite QB with him regardless of his ranking. They landed THE guy when they got him, we have not.

They also landed more elite prospects than us
 
Elite QBs are Unicorns.
Nope, ND has not had an elite QB in decades.

Really, who is the last elite QB to play at ND?

Jimmy?

Before him who?

For whatever reason, ND does not land elite QBs.

I am saying some of the reasons for this is the following:

1. Academic standards. No one on this board can argue that ND does not have a higher academic standard than the majority of programs.

2. Elite QBs like an open offense.

3. If the offense is like an Alabama, they better have championship rings like Alabama.

Three reasons why I believe Brian Kelly and every other ND coach has failed to bring in elite QBs.
Excuse 1 doesnt really work at the QB postion. With certain others I agree, not QB
 
I don’t think your reasons are accurate. Our academic standards is not deterring us from landing an elite QB. For example, J Fields is incredibly smart, offered by Harvard and Yale. Is the pool smaller? Sure, but not by that much. I also believe our offense is as open as most elite programs. It just doesn’t seem like it because we lack the skill players at WR and we lack good, consistent QB play. Wasn’t our offense pretty explosive in 2015 with Fuller and Procise? We averaged 7.0 yards per play that season.....to put that into perspective, that is what Clemson averages the last couple of seasons with Lawrence.

I believe we fail to land that elite QB prospect because of our recruiting identity. What is ND known for in the recruiting landscape? Getting elite OL and TEs. That’s good but the elite QBs want to play with elite WRs. I believe we need to change the perception of our program so that we’re not just a OL/TE factory. We need to start landing more elite WRs every year. Then the next step is to develop a QB to get that good consistent play out of him. We’ve recruited 4 top 100 QBs in the BK era (Phil, Wimbush, PYne, Buchner) plus legit 4-stars in Kizer and Zaire. That’s better than what OSU has recruited in the last few years. The difference is that OSU has had a lot more explosive athletes on the outside that can take a slant pass and go for 50yds. We saw that when they demolished Michigan a couple years ago....so their offense looks more ”open” and explosive but really they just have better athletes.

Anyways, just my 0.02. Feel free to pick it apart.
As I said, academics is NOT the only reason. Top QBs go to a place that has a system that can high light them. They go to a place that has a “current” tradition of winning championships.

ND has neither to offer. My knock on Kelly would be not that he does not develop elite QBs. My issue is Kelly is not creating an offense that elite QBs are drawn to.
 
As I said, academics is NOT the only reason. Top QBs go to a place that has a system that can high light them. They go to a place that has a “current” tradition of winning championships.

ND has neither to offer. My knock on Kelly would be not that he does not develop elite QBs. My issue is Kelly is not creating an offense that elite QBs are drawn to.
I definitely agree with you on needing “current winning tradition”, aka Clemson/Bama. But now we’re at the Chicken or the Egg theory.....you need to win to get the Uber QBs but you need that Uber QB to win, so what comes first? That’s where I think QB development and surrounding talent is so important when you’re trying to climb that hill to the top. Again, we were running the BK offense in 2015 when we had one of the most explosive offenses in the country....so what’s the difference? The difference is having Fuller and Procise and Adams instead of T Jones or J McKinley.

If you look at the last few years, there’s been as many elite QBs that we’re not 5-stars as there has been that we’re 5-stars. Yes, you have Lawrence, Watson, Fields, K Murray. But you also have Tua, S Darnold, Herbert, Daniel Jones, Baker, D Haskins. For reference, D Haskins was ranked 40 spots lower than Wimbush and about 15 spots lower than Phil. Tua was ranked ranked right around where Wimbush was ranked. Darnold was a middle of the road 4-star like Kizer and Zaire. So as you see, we have gotten the raw materials needed at QB but it just hasn’t happened, most likely because of a combination of bad evaluation, lack of potent surrounding talent and disappointing development.
 
Starting with Clemson. Watson was born and raised In Georgia. How did Clemson get this guy from Georgia?

Watson fell in love with Clemson as a sophomore in high school. They made it very clear to him, that they were building their program around him. Watson was the flood gate that brought in all of the Clemson talent we see now.

Kelly needs to find that unicorn like Watson. They need to give him the keys to the University and say you are the guy that we will build around. You are the guy that will bring Notre Dame it’s first championship since 1988.

Unfortunately, I do not believe that type of QB is currently on



Haskins is in no way an elite QB. He had one really good year at Ohio State.

Tua, S Darnold, Herbert, Daniel Jones, Baker, D Haskins.
Tua was a five star guy:
“Tagovailoa is now a five-star recruit and the No. 1 dual-threat quarterback in the 2017 class” according to 247Sports.
Sam Darnold is NOT elite. Nothing special about the guy. No way would I put him in the same conversation as Watson and Lawrence.
Daniel Jones: We will see
 
Starting with Clemson. Watson was born and raised In Georgia. How did Clemson get this guy from Georgia?

Watson fell in love with Clemson as a sophomore in high school. They made it very clear to him, that they were building their program around him. Watson was the flood gate that brought in all of the Clemson talent we see now.

Kelly needs to find that unicorn like Watson. They need to give him the keys to the University and say you are the guy that we will build around. You are the guy that will bring Notre Dame it’s first championship since 1988.

Unfortunately, I do not believe that type of QB is currently on



Haskins is in no way an elite QB. He had one really good year at Ohio State.

Tua, S Darnold, Herbert, Daniel Jones, Baker, D Haskins.
Tua was a five star guy:
“Tagovailoa is now a five-star recruit and the No. 1 dual-threat quarterback in the 2017 class” according to 247Sports.
Sam Darnold is NOT elite. Nothing special about the guy. No way would I put him in the same conversation as Watson and Lawrence.
Daniel Jones: We will see
How is Haskins not elite in college? Yes he only had one year but that’s all he needed, he went pro. He had almost 5,000 yds and 50 TDs!!! OSU averaged 535yds per game in 2018 and 42ppg. By comparison ND averaged 440yds and 31ppg on a playoff team. The only reason OSU didn’t make the playoffs was because they had no defense that season. Can you imagine if we had an offense that averaged 42ppg to go along with a Clark Lea defense?

Yes, we’re looking for that unicorn QB, but so is everyone else. The odds of getting that QB is extremely small. The better route is to greatly improve the surrounding talent and develop a really good QB, maybe not super elite but good enough. Haskins, Baker, Burrow....all we’re not super 5-star recruits. What did they all have in common? Elite surrounding talent to accentuate their talent.....not OL/TE talent but WR/RB talent.
 
But now we’re at the Chicken or the Egg theory.....you need to win to get the Uber QBs but you need that Uber QB to win, so what comes first?

you don't need to win a championship to sign a great qb. The best NFL qbs come from middling schools. What we needed was a breath of fresh air in qb coaching and development. Instead we got Kelly's first attempt as OC.
 
How is Haskins not elite in college? Yes he only had one year but that’s all he needed, he went pro. He had almost 5,000 yds and 50 TDs!!! OSU averaged 535yds per game in 2018 and 42ppg. By comparison ND averaged 440yds and 31ppg on a playoff team. The only reason OSU didn’t make the playoffs was because they had no defense that season. Can you imagine if we had an offense that averaged 42ppg to go along with a Clark Lea defense?

Yes, we’re looking for that unicorn QB, but so is everyone else. The odds of getting that QB is extremely small. The better route is to greatly improve the surrounding talent and develop a really good QB, maybe not super elite but good enough. Haskins, Baker, Burrow....all we’re not super 5-star recruits. What did they all have in common? Elite surrounding talent to accentuate their talent.....not OL/TE talent but WR/RB talent.
How is Haskins not elite in college? Yes he only had one year but that’s all he needed, he went pro. He had almost 5,000 yds and 50 TDs!!! OSU averaged 535yds per game in 2018 and 42ppg. By comparison ND averaged 440yds and 31ppg on a playoff team. The only reason OSU didn’t make the playoffs was because they had no defense that season. Can you imagine if we had an offense that averaged 42ppg to go along with a Clark Lea defense?

Yes, we’re looking for that unicorn QB, but so is everyone else. The odds of getting that QB is extremely small. The better route is to greatly improve the surrounding talent and develop a really good QB, maybe not super elite but good enough. Haskins, Baker, Burrow....all we’re not super 5-star recruits. What did they all have in common? Elite surrounding talent to accentuate their talent.....not OL/TE talent but WR/RB talent.
He is a very inaccurate QB that is not mobile and cannot read a defense.

Elite talent will transfer to the NFL. He is struggling
 
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He is a very inaccurate QB that is not mobile and cannot read a defense.

Elite talent will transfer to the NFL. He is struggling
I’m not talking about what he is doing in the NFL. Not all top college QBs excel in the NFL. Baker is struggling. Tebow never did anything in the NFL. Haskins was a legit super QB in college, that’s all that matters when discussing success for ND to compete better against the elite teams. Stats don’t lie, 5000 yds and 50 TDs in a season. You don’t think we would have had a better offensive output against Clemson in 2018 with Haskins over Book? I definitely do.
 
Not a Book hater, I don’t hate the players. Not even a Kelly hater, just think he’s taken the program as far as he can.

The fact that you’re giddy about beating up on Duke and a glorified high school team in USF, and calling this the greatest ND Era in 30 years is all I need to know.
35-6 looks great on paper, but out scored 197-81 in those 6 losses, zero major bowl wins, zero wins against top 5, blow out losses. I mean even Charlie Weis had two 10-2 seasons, but I wouldn’t call that a great era.

Honestly, don’t you think it’s time Kelly gets a win vs a top 5 team, or wins a major bowl game after 11 years?, or let’s set the bar really low, doesn’t get blown out by a ranked opponent.

In a previous post you stated Kelly is just as good as Holtz. What Kelly has yet to achieve in 11 years Holtz managed in 3. Won a major bowl game, won against top 5 competition, not once, but multiple times, and aside from the 1st two seasons was competitive in all their losses.
the Kelly haters and Book haters will come out When Notre Dame does poorly against say Pittsburgh or even loses and gets trashed by Clemson if that happens.
 
the Kelly haters and Book haters will come out When Notre Dame does poorly against say Pittsburgh or even loses and gets trashed by Clemson if that happens.
If the Irish is at full strength and all things are considered equal and those things you mentioned happen, then yes, BK deserves the criticism by Irish Nation. No matter how Ian plays, fans need to tread lightly on negative personal comments. If the Irish win both of these games, the haters will come out and jump on the bandwagon. That's OK. Everyone is welcome to the Irish Express.
 
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