What holds ND back from the top 3

[NDgreatestofalltime!]

tier of Bama, Clemson, and OSU?

I think there are several answers, beginning with academics. I think that is a big hindrance as many top prep players are looking for a major in FB leading to the NFL.

You could make a case for location as well, I’m sure many of you could come up with several disadvantages to win a title at ND as compared to the other 3.

All those aside, I’d like to focus on the QB position/recruiting. I did some brief research and noticed that Clemson, Bama, and OSU have had several high 4 star and 5 star prospects. In fact, OSU will soon have FOUR QB’s that rate 5.9 or higher. They’ll have a #1, #3, and #7 QBs from their perspective class year. Bama is similar, with a #1, #3, #9 rated QBs on their current roster. Lastly, Clemson has DJU back #1 in his class, The #1 for the 22 class, and a #7, and #27.

Their ability to recruit high level QBs annually is spectacular. CFB is the most QB centric that it has ever been, having a truly skilled and elite QB running the offense is how you currently win.

even though I didn’t include OU since they didn’t get a title but they too are recruiting high level QBs year after year now.

I think Conan is going to surprise this year, I really do. It seem like Buchner is showing flashes of greatness in camp according to reporters and coaches. Pyne is a serviceable player at this point it seems. Clark hasn’t done anything in a few camps that indicate that he’ll be a starter while at ND. We pretty much have Buchner and no one else. I’ve read this past week that Angeli didn’t play well in his camp and his ranking has fallen. I’m shocked that ND is unable to consistently acquire a top 10 or even 15 QB for sure every season.

thoughts?

 

[Golson5]

tier of Bama, Clemson, and OSU?

I think there are several answers, beginning with academics. I think that is a big hindrance as many top prep players are looking for a major in FB leading to the NFL.

You could make a case for location as well, I’m sure many of you could come up with several disadvantages to win a title at ND as compared to the other 3.

All those aside, I’d like to focus on the QB position/recruiting. I did some brief research and noticed that Clemson, Bama, and OSU have had several high 4 star and 5 star prospects. In fact, OSU will soon have FOUR QB’s that rate 5.9 or higher. They’ll have a #1, #3, and #7 QBs from their perspective class year. Bama is similar, with a #1, #3, #9 rated QBs on their current roster. Lastly, Clemson has DJU back #1 in his class, The #1 for the 22 class, and a #7, and #27.

Their ability to recruit high level QBs annually is spectacular. CFB is the most QB centric that it has ever been, having a truly skilled and elite QB running the offense is how you currently win.

even though I didn’t include OU since they didn’t get a title but they too are recruiting high level QBs year after year now.

I think Conan is going to surprise this year, I really do. It seem like Buchner is showing flashes of greatness in camp according to reporters and coaches. Pyne is a serviceable player at this point it seems. Clark hasn’t done anything in a few camps that indicate that he’ll be a starter while at ND. We pretty much have Buchner and no one else. I’ve read this past week that Angeli didn’t play well in his camp and his ranking has fallen. I’m shocked that ND is unable to consistently acquire a top 10 or even 15 QB for sure every season.

thoughts?

QB definitely

Elite skill players at WR and CB

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

Elite QB play and a lack of game breakers. We need a team that has Quinn/Clausen, but also a Stanley, Eifert, Tate, Floyd, Tuitt, Te'o, Love, and Hamilton at the same time. Given the guys I just randomly listed. I almost wouldn't even care who the other starters are. ND currently offers a great supporting cast as they have several 4 stars and highly developed guys at every position Group. So close, but so far away. It's frustrating watching ND do really well some years at o-line, d-line, LBs, WRs, but those groups are never all good at the same time.

 

[scubastevefl]

Elite QB
Elite skill position players

 

[Get Nasty]

This year I think 3 areas potentially. Health is every year so i'm not going to include that.


1. Coan - If he doesn't pan out ND is in trouble vs the elite teams
2. CBs - we could go undefeated if Coan plays well but then our CBs could get exposed again vs clemson/bama/osu
3. Oline doesn't mesh and develop well

We could still go undefeated regular season if only 1 of the above 3 happen, but if 2 happen, then I don't think we go undefeated. I think most likely is that Coan is as good of or slightly better than Book but still not quite good enough for championship. Lewis keeps getting exposed like he did last year and has been reported in fall camps. O line starts slow but builds and is strong by October.

 

[Ara64]

Preparation. Getting the team ready to play in that big game environment. ND needs to recruit talent not fit. Get the best guy available and get those offensive coaches off their butts and start recruiting the best players.

 

[burmafrd1943]

absolutely elite QB and WR talent is their biggest starting player edge.

But coaching is the other one. BK is not as good as they are and that is clear. I think he is a top 10 coach but they have had top 3 coaching.

I think if we had equal coaching we would be right there with them even with the talent deficit.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Dante Moore. If we can’t get him we ain’t getting any elite qbs. Sad.

 

[ftnfan62]

Just a QB. A dominant QB

 

[Golson5]

Dante Moore. If we can’t get him we ain’t getting any elite qbs. Sad.

Id take the kid from Kansas as well. There are others too out there. It's not Moore or bust

 

[Extirpate 6951]

Development

 

[Ara64]

I don't think the problem lies in recruiting but getting the team emotionally ready to play the game. The guys have the tools to play but in the games that really matter they come out flat. Flatness, you lay at the head coach's feet. It's something BK must figure out.

 

[TDIrish27]

Elite QB
Elite skill position players

This

 

[Zorich 88]

So many people are saying elite QB.

Remember, elite QBs do not grow on trees. Their are only so many many guys that you can label elite QB.

First who do you consider elite? Clemson had an elite QB and elite skill guys and got destroyed by OSU

OSU had both ingredients and got destroyed by Bama.

Who has an elite QB right now?

The question was: “what holds ND back from being top 3”?

Top 3 is not the goal. The goal is a championship.

If Mac Jones, Trevor or Fields played for ND in 2020, would ND be the 2020 champion?

If Book played for Bama last year would Bama still win a championship in 2020? I say yes.

 

[Golson5]

So many people are saying elite QB.

Remember, elite QBs do not grow on trees. Their are only so many many guys that you can label elite QB.

First who do you consider elite? Clemson had an elite QB and elite skill guys and got destroyed by OSU

OSU had both ingredients and got destroyed by Bama.

Who has an elite QB right now?

The question was: “what holds ND back from being top 3”?

Top 3 is not the goal. The goal is a championship.

If Mac Jones, Trevor or Fields played for ND in 2020, would ND be the 2020 champion?

If Book played for Bama last year would Bama still win a championship in 2020? I say yes.

We havent had a top 5 to 10 QB in a long time.

Alabama, Clemson, OSU, Oklahoma have elite talents at QB this year and thats pretty much everyone's top 4

We need an elite player at the position to give us a chance for a Title

 

[tkirish]

Coaching

 

[Telx1]

This year I think 3 areas potentially. Health is every year so i'm not going to include that.


1. Coan - If he doesn't pan out ND is in trouble vs the elite teams
2. CBs - we could go undefeated if Coan plays well but then our CBs could get exposed again vs clemson/bama/osu
3. Oline doesn't mesh and develop well

We could still go undefeated regular season if only 1 of the above 3 happen, but if 2 happen, then I don't think we go undefeated. I think most likely is that Coan is as good of or slightly better than Book but still not quite good enough for championship. Lewis keeps getting exposed like he did last year and has been reported in fall camps. O line starts slow but builds and is strong by October.

I personally think Coan will be very good…good enough to win a NC. I’ve been concerned about our CB’s since last year, and the Spring exhibition game seemed to show positive development. But, reading that they’re getting dominated by our receivers in practice, so these two positions will continue to be a concern until they prove otherwise. OL is a work in progress, and anxious to read about a dominant practice by the unit, but nothing close thus far.

 

[IrishMike409]

Coaching

Dumb

 

[Zorich 88]

We havent had a top 5 to 10 QB in a long time.

Alabama, Clemson, OSU, Oklahoma have elite talents at QB this year and thats pretty much everyone's top 4

We need an elite player at the position to give us a chance for a Title

Let me ask this, put Book on Bama 2020, do they win a championship? Yup

Absolutely would love to have the unicorn (elite QB).

Spencer is not an elite QB. The Sooners have the best QB coach in the country as their HC. Spencer is not elite guys.

How are you calling the OSU QB elite when he has how many snaps as a college starter????

 

[hvillebill]

Coaching

Well, if it's that simple then a whole lot of other teams should be competing with the Big Three.

They're not, because it's not that simple.

 

[Zorich 88]

Well, if it's that simple then a whole lot of other teams should be competing with the Big Three.

They're not, because it's not that simple.

I agree, it’s not just one thing ND is lacking. I do agree ND needs more 1st/2nd round talent.

Top elite QBs are a unicorn. Not many around. Players at that level chose teams with recent championships/heisman winners.

Also, the ND campus is not your typical University campus. There are no fraternities, no real party atmosphere on or off campus compared to the other schools. Academic standard definitely effects recruitment.

 

[Golson5]

Let me ask this, put Book on Bama 2020, do they win a championship? Yup

Absolutely would love to have the unicorn (elite QB).

Spencer is not an elite QB. The Sooners have the best QB coach in the country as their HC. Spencer is not elite guys.

How are you calling the OSU QB elite when he has how many snaps as a college starter????

1. I think OSU beats Bama with Book. But we will never have the talent of Bama which makes having an elite QB tbat much more important

2. Spencer will be a top 5 pick. When was our last?? Yes he is elite

3. I said elite talent. Not an elite QB....YET. But he has the talent to be an elite QB. More talent than anyone we've had

 

[NDgreatestofalltime!]

Elite college QB’s aren’t unicorns. As I’ve said, OSU, Bama, and Clemson seem to put one on the field after another every year.

off the top of my head OSU has had Fields, Haskins, Barrett, Miller, Pryor, Smith, etc.. every QB they install has been very good.
Clemson is similar with DJ, Lawrence, Kelly, Watson, Boyd. Bama had good QB’s/game managers in McCarron, McElroy, Coker, Sims, several of them were elite recruits but they’ve also had phenoms like Hurts, Tua, Jones.

I think the QB position is key to ND taking the next step.

 

[echowaker]

This year I think 3 areas potentially. Health is every year so i'm not going to include that.


1. Coan - If he doesn't pan out ND is in trouble vs the elite teams
2. CBs - we could go undefeated if Coan plays well but then our CBs could get exposed again vs clemson/bama/osu
3. Oline doesn't mesh and develop well

We could still go undefeated regular season if only 1 of the above 3 happen, but if 2 happen, then I don't think we go undefeated. I think most likely is that Coan is as good of or slightly better than Book but still not quite good enough for championship. Lewis keeps getting exposed like he did last year and has been reported in fall camps. O line starts slow butbashing and is strong by October.

More Lewis bashing . Shocking. I guess that means we can add him to the list of guys that you insisted weren't good enough. Most of those are collecting NFL paychecks. Gotta be a good sign for Lewis.
.

 

[Zorich 88]

Elite college QB’s aren’t unicorns. As I’ve said, OSU, Bama, and Clemson seem to put one on the field after another every year.

off the top of my head OSU has had Fields, Haskins, Barrett, Miller, Pryor, Smith, etc.. every QB they install has been very good.
Clemson is similar with DJ, Lawrence, Kelly, Watson, Boyd. Bama had good QB’s/game managers in McCarron, McElroy, Coker, Sims, several of them were elite recruits but they’ve also had phenoms like Hurts, Tua, Jones.

I think the QB position is key to ND taking the next step.

Hold on what??????????????

120 teams in D1
How many are elite? Less than 10% my friend. Name 10 current elite QBs. That’s 10 out of 120 QBs.

 

[Zorich 88]

1. I think OSU beats Bama with Book. But we will never have the talent of Bama which makes having an elite QB tbat much more important

2. Spencer will be a top 5 pick. When was our last?? Yes he is elite

3. I said elite talent. Not an elite QB....YET. But he has the talent to be an elite QB. More talent than anyone we've had

OSU beats Bama with Book as Bama QB???
52-24!!!!!
the Bama defense won that game. Fields had 180 yards passing. Their top RB had 65 yards!

Having Book at QB does nothing to effect that dominant defensive performance.

2. Spencer a top 5 pick, ok let’s go with that. It will depend on what teams pick in the top 5. Who will need a QB???

3. I am not a fan of Spencer.

 

[tkirish]

Well, if it's that simple then a whole lot of other teams should be competing with the Big Three.

They're not, because it's not that simple.

Keep in mind the word coaching involves many aspects. Recruiting, player development, practice, game time management. It’s as simple as that.

 

[jcswoopnh]

Years ago, I always thought a dominant D-line would hold ND back from winning it all. That issue has been put to bed. Its pretty frustrating that they have not been able to land at least one stud QB

 

[hvillebill]

Keep in mind the word coaching involves many aspects. Recruiting, player development, practice, game time management. It’s as simple as that.

Again, if it is that easy then a whole lot of other teams should be competing for the Natty.

You have Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State. After that you have a second-tier group of which Notre Dame is a part. That group IMO is (in no particular order):

Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Georgia
Florida
Texas A&M
Wisconsin
LSU

 

[NDgreatestofalltime!]

Hold on what??????????????

120 teams in D1
How many are elite? Less than 10% my friend. Name 10 current elite QBs. That’s 10 out of 120 QBs.

Bro, the elite programs that are winning titles have elite QB after elite QB. OSU will have 3 elite recruits sitting behind Stroud.
Bama has the number 2, and 3 ranked QB recruits in their class that will be sitting behind the #1 QB for his class in Bryce Young. Clemson has the #1 QB recruit committed and the #1 QB in DJ starting this year. OU has another #1 Dual threat QB recruit, plus Spencer Rattler.

On a side note, UF, UGA, and UNC are all recruiting the QB position very well the past 3 years.

 

[NDgreatestofalltime!]

Again, if it is that easy then a whole lot of other teams should be competing for the Natty.

You have Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State. After that you have a second-tier group of which Notre Dame is a part. That group IMO is (in no particular order):

Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Georgia
Florida
Texas A&M
Wisconsin
LSU

I agree, I’ve been saying for at least 4-5 years that it’s Bama, Clemson, and OSU at the top then about 6-8 other teams on the next tier.

 

[Get Nasty]

I personally think Coan will be very good…good enough to win a NC. I’ve been concerned about our CB’s since last year, and the Spring exhibition game seemed to show positive development. But, reading that they’re getting dominated by our receivers in practice, so these two positions will continue to be a concern until they prove otherwise. OL is a work in progress, and anxious to read about a dominant practice by the unit, but nothing close thus far.

Agree but he needs Austin healthy and dominating plus oline to keep improving.

 

[Get Nasty]

More Lewis bashing . Shocking. I guess that means we can add him to the list of guys that you insisted weren't good enough. Most of those are collecting NFL paychecks. Gotta be a good sign for Lewis.
.

Tony Jones and Lewis i stated aren’t Nd caliber. Boykin people keep changing my words, I liked him in college, not as much as chase, but didn’t think he would get drafted high (I was wrong) and thought he would struggle in nfl-accurate. Book I tho if it was fine qb but not close to championship caliber. You really think Lewis is what ND needs at corner????? Answer and we’ll see who is right

 

[tkirish]

Again, if it is that easy then a whole lot of other teams should be competing for the Natty.

You have Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State. After that you have a second-tier group of which Notre Dame is a part. That group IMO is (in no particular order):

Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Georgia
Florida
Texas A&M
Wisconsin
LSU

Again it’s “ coaching” . The 3 teams that are mentioned have elite coaching. ND does not. In fact most teams do not. ND has good coaching. You can disagree . I don’t care . You have your opinion, I have mine. That’s why I believe ND hasn‘t been able to get to the top tier.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

This is ND. QB should be the easiest position to recruit. National spotlight. Every Saturday on NBC coast to coast. Perennial top 10 team with two recent playoffs. Top 5 OL. Tight end U. Top facilities. To rate education, qbs are usually smart. A legendary, offensive minded coach. America’s team and you are it’s qb. You’re basically a celebrity the day you start. You can’t even say that for other huge programs. History of elite qbs. We never had trouble in the past getting high 4* or 5* qbs. The great QBs tend to be smarter, leaders. ND fits the bill accross the board. We pulled JC, Crist, Kiel, Golson, Wimbush, Kizer, etc. Not all were good, but they were very highly rated. We are struggling now at the worst time. The rest of the positions are beafing up.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Again it’s “ coaching” . The 3 teams that are mentioned have elite coaching. ND does not. In fact most teams do not. ND has good coaching. You can disagree . I don’t care . You have your opinion, I have mine. That’s why I believe ND hasn‘t been able to get to the top tier.

We have an elite head coach, OL, DC. So I disagree. We are lacking a big name OC. So I agree somewhat. TR might be a fine coach, but he is not a sexy hire. Freeman is. You can see the recruiting impact. We are outperforming our recruiting ranking every year. That’s not a coaching issue, it’s a recruiting issue.

 

[IrishMike409]

Again, if it is that easy then a whole lot of other teams should be competing for the Natty.

You have Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State. After that you have a second-tier group of which Notre Dame is a part. That group IMO is (in no particular order):

Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Georgia
Florida
Texas A&M
Wisconsin
LSU

You think Wisconsin is in that second tier? I don’t. Fwiw.

 

[tkirish]

This is ND. QB should be the easiest position to recruit. National spotlight. Every Saturday on NBC coast to coast. Perennial top 10 team with two recent playoffs. Top 5 OL. Tight end U. Top facilities. To rate education, qbs are usually smart. A legendary, offensive minded coach. America’s team and you are it’s qb. You’re basically a celebrity the day you start. You can’t even say that for other huge programs. History of elite qbs. We never had trouble in the past getting high 4* or 5* qbs. The great QBs tend to be smarter, leaders. ND fits the bill accross the board. We pulled JC, Crist, Kiel, Golson, Wimbush, Kizer, etc. Not all were good, but they were very highly rated. We are struggling now at the worst time. The rest of the positions are beafing up

We have an elite head coach, OL, DC. So I disagree. We are lacking a big name OC. So I agree somewhat. TR might be a fine coach, but he is not a sexy hire. Freeman is. You can see the recruiting impact. We are outperforming our recruiting ranking every year. That’s not a coaching issue, it’s a recruiting issue.

ok. So my question is this. What makes Brian Kelly an elite coach ? Oh and coaching and recruiting are joined at the hip. If you have a recruiting deficit, that is on the coach.

 

[Golson5]

Tony Jones and Lewis i stated aren’t Nd caliber. Boykin people keep changing my words, I liked him in college, not as much as chase, but didn’t think he would get drafted high (I was wrong) and thought he would struggle in nfl-accurate. Book I tho if it was fine qb but not close to championship caliber. You really think Lewis is what ND needs at corner????? Answer and we’ll see who is right

Lewis should be a depth guy at ND, not a starter. Same with Jones

 

[BGI User 1596]

If Book played for Bama last year would Bama still win a championship in 2020? I say yes.

No