Wall Street Journal

[mmboys07]

Today's WSJ had an excellent article on Alabama's football success. While not directly focusing on how Alabama has built such a consistently strong program
the discussion mentioned two things that have helped Alabama consistently be successful: 1. Liberal use of redshirting. This years team was largely made up
of Seniors and red shirt Juniors, which means most of those Seniors had been around along time too. 2. The back up QB this year has played in 8 games. Now, granted
Alabama often had big leads making it easier to give back ups time to play, still there is more of a commitment to playing backups, including the QB. How much
back up action did ND QBs get? Not much. As for the red-shirting, when added to the practice of grey shirting ( holding over recruits to a following year)
Alabama has figured out how to get the goose to lay the golden egg.

 

[hvillebill]

Every team re-shirts players. Alabama isn't the only one doing it.

 

[BGI User 1596]

Today's WSJ had an excellent article on Alabama's football success. While not directly focusing on how Alabama has built such a consistently strong program
the discussion mentioned two things that have helped Alabama consistently be successful: 1. Liberal use of redshirting. This years team was largely made up
of Seniors and red shirt Juniors, which means most of those Seniors had been around along time too. 2. The back up QB this year has played in 8 games. Now, granted
Alabama often had big leads making it easier to give back ups time to play, still there is more of a commitment to playing backups, including the QB. How much
back up action did ND QBs get? Not much. As for the red-shirting, when added to the practice of grey shirting ( holding over recruits to a following year)
Alabama has figured out how to get the goose to lay the golden egg.

Player developmen!

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Today's WSJ had an excellent article on Alabama's football success. While not directly focusing on how Alabama has built such a consistently strong program
the discussion mentioned two things that have helped Alabama consistently be successful: 1. Liberal use of redshirting. This years team was largely made up
of Seniors and red shirt Juniors, which means most of those Seniors had been around along time too. 2. The back up QB this year has played in 8 games. Now, granted
Alabama often had big leads making it easier to give back ups time to play, still there is more of a commitment to playing backups, including the QB. How much
back up action did ND QBs get? Not much. As for the red-shirting, when added to the practice of grey shirting ( holding over recruits to a following year)
Alabama has figured out how to get the goose to lay the golden egg.

When BK was at Grand Valley he would run up the score. Often his teams would put up 60+. He was harsh. He never let off the gas. His offense was up tempo and they threw the ball all over. They had speedy athletes and he recruited athletes. Ever since he’s been at ND he’s been more conservative. I think he needs to get back to that. His old teams looked like Oregon back when they had Chip Kelly. With inferior recruiting, the way to beat Bama is to punch them in the face with innovation and speed. Getting up by 60 against week opponents is common for the other top programs. That allows backups more PT. We need to stop beating cupcakes by 14.

 

[mirer03]

When BK was at Grand Valley he would run up the score. Often his teams would put up 60+. He was harsh. He never let off the gas. His offense was up tempo and they threw the ball all over. They had speedy athletes and he recruited athletes. Ever since he’s been at ND he’s been more conservative. I think he needs to get back to that. His old teams looked like Oregon back when they had Chip Kelly. With inferior recruiting, the way to beat Bama is to punch them in the face with innovation and speed. Getting up by 60 against week opponents is common for the other top programs. That allows backups more PT. We need to stop beating cupcakes by 14.

He tried that. What he realized was that if you have two straight 3 and outs he was wearing out his own defense and that led to many late game collapses. There is a huge difference in the level of competition between gvs and notre dame.

Kelly took a few big losses on the chin and many times his defense simply broke down late in games.

Now as they start getting more depth that might change as they are rotating the dline much more, but the cb depth and secondary depth would be exposed by either scoring to fast OR going three and out.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

He tried that. What he realized was that if you have two straight 3 and outs he was wearing out his own defense and that led to many late game collapses. There is a huge difference in the level of competition between gvs and notre dame.

Kelly took a few big losses on the chin and many times his defense simply broke down late in games.

Now as they start getting more depth that might change as they are rotating the dline much more, but the cb depth and secondary depth would be exposed by either scoring to fast OR going three and out.

All I know is that the top teams score a lot of points

 

[mirer03]

All I know is that the top teams score a lot of points

Understood. Just gotta have the depth on defense to run a tempo like that. ND is usually deep at ol, te, dl. The other spots we have 1 or maybe two backups that see the field. Can't run that tempo and expect success when you can rest guys in the secondary.

 

[john0gaunt]

Kelly needs to be able to get the kids to play out their eligibility. He loses his stars to NFL one year early every time!

Been saying this for years.

 

[twalsh]

2. The back up QB this year has played in 8 games. Now, granted
Alabama often had big leads making it easier to give back ups time to play, still there is more of a commitment to playing backups, including the QB.

Their average margin of victory this year was more than many teams score each game. I suspect we would have seen quite a bit of Clark and/or Pyne in that same situation.

And I guess that ND and OSU should take heart in the fact that neither of us saw the backup QB.

 

[echowaker]

All I know is that the top teams score a lot of points

A lot of those teams have elite level skill position players.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

A lot of those teams have elite level skill position players.

Right. That's what we need to win a title. Playoffs is the ceiling without better recruiting. This current team did an incredible job and I think far exceeded expectations. We need to raise the expectations by recruiting better.

 

[mmboys07]

Every team re-shirts players. Alabama isn't the only one doing it.

There is a difference between giving a player a red shirt year at the end of their tenure based on their
academic record, as ND does it; vs. holding out players and stockpiling talent from the very beginning. Plus the grey shirt process allows teams to recruit beyond the numerical limits set by the NCAA. No, Alabama and a few others have created a way to stock pile players so they never have a situation
like ND will have next year; rebuilding in a significant way. And it doesn't hurt that the University of
Alabama admin. gives Saban a blank check to do whatever he wants. He truly runs the program from first to last. Apples and oranges; apples and oranges.

 

[echowaker]

Right. That's what we need to win a title. Playoffs is the ceiling without better recruiting. This current team did an incredible job and I think far exceeded expectations. We need to raise the expectations by recruiting better.

Agreed. So how do you suggest ND land that elite level skill player with his eye firmly focused on the NFL ? What is the allure for him ? We all know ND needs more talent at the skill positions.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Agreed. So how do you suggest ND land that elite level skill player with his eye firmly focused on the NFL ? What is the allure for him ? We all know ND needs more talent at the skill positions.

That's the million dollar question. I think million dollars is exactly the answer. Pay someone to figure it out. Who's the best recruiter in America? What's his price?

 

[NDskins]

Notre dame offers 4 year scholarships, bama offers 1 year renewable ones. Even with top ranked classes every cycle, not everyone plans out, bama finds way to get rid of the bad and brings in more kids the next year. Notre dame sticks by their commitments. That's another big advantage $EC and other $school$ have over ND

 

[mmboys07]

Notre dame offers 4 year scholarships, bama offers 1 year renewable ones. Even with top ranked classes every cycle, not everyone plans out, bama finds way to get rid of the bad and brings in more kids the next year. Notre dame sticks by their commitments. That's another big advantage $EC and other $school$ have over ND

Excellent point. The reality you cite is probably the biggest reason why Saban doesn't run into a true rebuilding year, like ND will next year. So, Saban is always able to recruit larger classes, which also helps mitigate against the NCAA limit.

 

[tbonesays]

When BK was at Grand Valley he would run up the score. Often his teams would put up 60+. He was harsh. He never let off the gas. His offense was up tempo and they threw the ball all over. They had speedy athletes and he recruited athletes. Ever since he’s been at ND he’s been more conservative. I think he needs to get back to that. His old teams looked like Oregon back when they had Chip Kelly. With inferior recruiting, the way to beat Bama is to punch them in the face with innovation and speed. Getting up by 60 against week opponents is common for the other top programs. That allows backups more PT. We need to stop beating cupcakes by 14.

I thought we had stopped. At least with Book starting I don't recall handing onto a 1 score lead against Temple Ball St and Vanderbilt.

 

[IrishHerb]

Every team re-shirts players. Alabama isn't the only one doing it.

True. But at most schools red-shirts can play their 5th year at the school even if they're not on track to graduate. While at ND, athletes are expected to graduate in 4 years (5 years in Architecture and some engineering majors), so athletes playing their 5th year tend to be graduate students.

 

[Pennick4]

Does anyone know what Alabama's grad rate is for football players? I don't know but bet it is terrible.

 

[TDIrish27]

No it isn't----saw it a year or two ago and it's in the Top 25 which is pretty good.

They had the exact same number as Penn St if memory serves.

But you have to remember they lose a ton of guys early to the NFL.

Last years team had 5 guys go early in Rd 1-----and they still come back and win a Natty.

Hard to fathom.

 

[mmboys07]

No it isn't----saw it a year or two ago and it's in the Top 25 which is pretty good.

They had the exact same number as Penn St if memory serves.

But you have to remember they lose a ton of guys early to the NFL.

Last years team had 5 guys go early in Rd 1-----and they still come back and win a Natty.

Hard to fathom.

"Hard to Fathom". Not if you had read the above posts about the 1 year scholarship process and how that helps Alabama avoid the rebuilding process.

 

[mmboys07]

Does anyone know what Alabama's grad rate is for football players? I don't know but bet it is terrible.

The grade rate isn't necessarily relevant. It is more important to look at areas of study. Alabama has a ton of players taking the same major/classes; and it ain't physics.

 

[twalsh]

The grade rate isn't necessarily relevant. It is more important to look at areas of study. Alabama has a ton of players taking the same major/classes; and it ain't physics.

It’s a pretty respectable rate, above average.

 

[mmboys07]

"Hard to Fathom". Not if you had read the above posts about the 1 year scholarship process and how that helps Alabama avoid the rebuilding process.

Would be interesting to know exactly how graduation rate is determined.

 

[TDIrish27]

"Hard to Fathom". Not if you had read the above posts about the 1 year scholarship process and how that helps Alabama avoid the rebuilding process.

Every school has 1 year renewable scholarships---------every single one.

The difference between how some schools handle the scholarship varies.

There are several who will not cut a kid loose if he is a mistake as to being able to viably contribute to the team as long as his grades are OK. We are in that group.

There aren't many in it. Most of the one's in it you can probably guess . They are the higher end academic schools and most of them are private colleges.

At the end of every season Position Coaches have their one on one meetings and tell guys where they are and where they see them relative to next years team. " We don't see you playing here but we like you as a person and if you would like to transfer we will help you " is a very common line with the non contributors .

Players for the most part aren't stupid. They can read a depth chart.

I've been told by people who are in a position to know that if an ND Assistant says that to a kid he'll get fired.

Guys in many cases don't want to give up the ND Degree . You can't blame them for that.

 

[lyonhawk]

The liberal use of redshirting is an odd thing to claim helps Alabama. Their starters almost never use up all their eligibility. This year’s team had some guys stay you would have expected to leave early, but I think that’s because those guys hadn’t won a title as major contributors. Alabama very rarely has any 5th year players in major roles.

 

[echowaker]

That's the million dollar question. I think million dollars is exactly the answer. Pay someone to figure it out. Who's the best recruiter in America? What's his price?

None of that matters unless the Administration changes direction.

 

[hoopsstar12]

The grade rate isn't necessarily relevant. It is more important to look at areas of study. Alabama has a ton of players taking the same major/classes; and it ain't physics.

I don't like trashing other players unless deserved. Kelly has yet to recruit and develop an elite QB which is his Jonah.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

The grade rate isn't necessarily relevant. It is more important to look at areas of study. Alabama has a ton of players taking the same major/classes; and it ain't physics.

There’s always a cost to everything. ND chooses to be great academically and that far outweighs the loss in football dominance. Bama chooses to be great at football and to some that far outweighs the fact that they’re a mediocre state school.

 

[GDRAGONS]

Bama players are required to study one book, and that's the playbook. Following the Bear Bryant example. Nothing has changed since the 60's.

 

[mmboys07]

I don't like trashing other players unless deserved. Kelly has yet to recruit and develop an elite QB which is his Jonah.

You are exactly right. When Ara came to ND in 64 the play at the QB position immediately turned around. Same thing for Lou. QB play got stronger. Under Kelly; the QB position has stagnated. Book
was up and down. It a great job, don't get me wrong, but he was not the best QB on the field in a lot
of big games.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

You are exactly right. When Ara came to ND in 64 the play at the QB position immediately turned around. Same thing for Lou. QB play got stronger. Under Kelly; the QB position has stagnated. Book
was up and down. It a great job, don't get me wrong, but he was not the best QB on the field in a lot
of big games.

We have had apparent qb gurus on our staff like Sanford and it didn’t seem to matter. Quarterback recruiting is a crap shoot unless you get the obvious best guys. We rarely get the best guy. Clausen is the only one that comes to mind. There’s no way BK would “ruin” Trevor Lawrence, Andrew Luck, Lamar Jackson, or a talent like that. We need to get a little lucky one of these days with a quarterback. When Dayne Crist left he still wasn’t good. When Gunner Kiel left he still never got great. When Wimbush and Golson, they never got better. We are really due for a break at the qb position. Hopefully Buchner will play better than his Elite 11 performance indicated.

I think there’s a problem with whoever is evaluating quarterbacks. We never offer or get the Sam Howells but always fall flat with the 4-5 star kids we get.

 

[hoopsstar12]

I think it takes a real unique QB who can both run well and pass well consistently. Mac Jones looked very awkward running but his passes were deadly accurate. Book was a successful running QB but an inconsistent passer. I am not sure how Wimbush got a 4 star rating. Overall, if you want to compete with the schools that are "football factories" then you better have the best guy possible behind center.

 

[tbonesays]

I think it takes a real unique QB who can both run well and pass well consistently. Mac Jones looked very awkward running but his passes were deadly accurate. Book was a successful running QB but an inconsistent passer. I am not sure how Wimbush got a 4 star rating. Overall, if you want to compete with the schools that are "football factories" then you better have the best guy possible behind center.

Ohio State/Urban Meyer wanted Wimbush bigly. Had he gone there he may be one of their famous draft busts.

 

[TDIrish27]

Recruiting is in general a crap shoot------nobody is right all the time.

I must have seen Wimbush play in HS 3-4 times and I couldn't see him missing wherever he went.

The one thing I will say is that sometimes these guys are on a stacked HS team and they're never really under a ton of duress and that just isn't the case when you get to college.

The other thing I will say having met him several times Brandon Wimbush is a great young guy . Very sharp and articulate and he showed himself to be a great teammate when he got moved down the depth chart.

I for one am glad he came here to Notre Dame.

 

[Patrirish]

I don't like trashing other players unless deserved. Kelly has yet to recruit and develop an elite QB which is his Jonah.

So Kizer who left early and started for an NFL team in his rookie year wasn’t elite ?

 

[Patrirish]

You are exactly right. When Ara came to ND in 64 the play at the QB position immediately turned around. Same thing for Lou. QB play got stronger. Under Kelly; the QB position has stagnated. Book
was up and down. It a great job, don't get me wrong, but he was not the best QB on the field in a lot
of big games.

That’s absolutely NOT TRUE, unless you consider Daryl Lamonica an inferior QB.

John Huarte was already attending ND.

Which games ?

 

[mmboys07]

That’s absolutely NOT TRUE, unless you consider Daryl Lamonica an inferior QB.

John Huarte was already attending ND.

Which games ?

O.K Perhaps it would be more accurate to say Ara turned around the whole team.

 

[tbonesays]

So Kizer who left early and started for an NFL team in his rookie year wasn’t elite ?

He was our best but didn't improve under Kelly's coaching from year 1 to 2.

Wasn't Kelly still undecided between Zaire and Kizer at the beginning of 2016?

 

[BGI User 1596]

He was our best but didn't improve under Kelly's coaching from year 1 to 2.

Wasn't Kelly still undecided between Zaire and Kizer at the beginning of 2016?

Amazing how an injury propelled the bench player way ahead of the preconceived starter.