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Of course what I said went right over your head. Or, you chose to ignore the points I made. And what happens if we put todays players with yesteryears refs? When the game wasn't all about money? When refs adhered to the rules including a layup was allowed 1 1/2 steps? Do you think players today could handle that? No way. There'd be more turnovers than points scored. Pushing off to create a shot? Lordy, we'd have the "stars" fouling out in the 1st half. Every trip down the court would be an offensive foul if they had to adjust to the rules back then.

And the game has become a dunkfest. It's boring basketball watching FGs be 50% dunks per/gm. So because you're tall you can play. Yea, I'm sure you will name a guy today that's short (like Calvin Murphy or Nate Archibald) The game is all about playing above the rim today! Tall = Talent. Let's see how much better skilled the players of today would be if they actually had to rely on basketball talent if they raised the rim 2 feet. Make the avg. 6'7" guy actually have to jump high to dunk. Dunks might mean something then. And would today's versions of Calvin Murphy or Nate Archibald dunk on a 12' rim if they're so superior to yesteryears littles?

David Stern made it all about the money. Home team getting all the calls because when you have the advertising showing the crowds going nuts and having a good time, it's not because the refs have called something against the home team now, is it?
Money is irrelevant to how good a player is or isnt.

Players are MUCH MUCH MUCH better shooters and ball handlers now than they ever were. Its not even close. 7 footers are hitting 3s from 25 feet out. It's ridiculous how talented players have become
 
Its called evolutuon boss. Look at any Olympic event that measures strength, speed, jumping ability. All numbers are better now.

The fastest man in the world in the 1960s is over .4 of a slower than Usain Bolt. Carl lewis over .2 of a second slower than Bolt. Its called evolutuon. They wouldnt be competitive now

Fans for some reason dont feel that apllies in sports. They think players get slower and less athletic while the opposite is true. Training and nutrition have improved dramatically since even the 80s and 90s.

Fans are so loyal to their era. It's crazy

Because sports aren't 100 yd dashes, you mental retard.

First of all, this whole debate is probably beyond the scope of your mind to really even grasp, other than what you just said or at least alluded to, that typically things tend to advance and evolve in some positive direction with time, which I'm guessing is simplistic enough that even someone like yourself can confidently wrap your noggin around it.

But in a sport like basketball there's no way to quantify that, it's not that sort of thing. The players aren't any bigger, faster or stronger than they were in the previous generation - Jordan's era - and outside of noticeably advanced long range shooting, after even a fairly cursory consideration I would say it's highly debatable how anything has changed at all, or at least dramatically improved.

Do players eat better, sleep better, lift weights better? Maybe, but everyone back in the 90s was totally built and jacked, and full professionals who took their careers seriously. So that's a wash. Do they work harder, are they more motivated and driven today? Who the F knows, but I might be inclined to say no, they're lazier now, and more self-absorbed, and flightier, in other words typical millennials. Do they have better individual ball skills? Maybe, it's possible. But players were PLENTY skillful in the 90s, and I might think they had more game then than they do today. I don't watch hoops nearly as much anymore, but I was kind of thinking that current players' skills are declining in certain areas, like post skills. It's more playground-style ball today, more AAU summer league-esque, and the evolution into that style may not have been driven by improved quality, or the force of new talent irrepressibly taking the sport to a higher plane. And if anything that trend actually represents a decline in the level and excellence of the play. Are they coached better, and now players are so well-coached that they are on another level than your Birds and Magics and Barkleys as far as that sort of intangible, tactical superiority? Maybe, but I highly doubt that for some reason.

What you see or think you see are small differences in their physical mannerisms, and somehow they seem a little stiffer or more awkward back in the day, but that's quite possibly cosmetic, and misleading They're not actually any less physically capable, in terms of physics. So while I'm naturally inclined to agree that they are better today for some general, overall, undefinable reason you can't pinpoint but that inexorably comes with the passage of time, yet I can't convince myself of anything specific. Maybe the game itself has evolved in a way, in a completely organic unplanned way that would somehow distinctly favor today's players over Jordan's era, but I'd have to see to it believe it.

And of course it's a supremely stupid and futile argument as is there no way to test it. This is not one of those times when the eye test is going to settle it.[/QUOTE]
 
Money is irrelevant to how good a player is or isnt.

Players are MUCH MUCH MUCH better shooters and ball handlers now than they ever were. Its not even close. 7 footers are hitting 3s from 25 feet out. It's ridiculous how talented players have become

Now you're just embarrassing yourself, you geek. I realize of any sort of meaningful discussion on any topic is pretty much out of your depth... But come on now, are players so good now it's just incredible and you can't even imagine it, it's like they're angels come down from heaven or something? You're squealing like a teenybopper. Get a grip.

And they're not even better shooters, they just shoot from farther out. Quite frankly, if we could have some sort of playoff between the generations in some time warp, and we gave the guys from the 80s/90s a little extra prep time, they could probably expand their range to match them in a few weeks. It's more of a stylistic thing than a substantive one. As if Dell Curry, Stephon's dad and a shooting specialist from Jordan's era simply wouldn't have it in him to ever match his son's range. As if his shorter, even slower and less athletic son is some sort of evolutionary leap forward that his dad's generation could never hope to match. Good grief, give me a break.

Quite frankly the fact that Stephon Curry is one of the superstars of this current region would not bode well IMO, for how dominant players from today would be over Jordan and his ilk.
 
Now you're just embarrassing yourself, you geek. I realize of any sort of meaningful discussion on any topic is pretty much out of your depth... But come on now, are players so good now it's just incredible and you can't even imagine it, it's like they're angels come down from heaven or something? You're squealing like a teenybopper. Get a grip.

And they're not even better shooters, they just shoot from farther out. Quite frankly, if we could have some sort of playoff between the generations in some time warp, and we gave the guys from the 80s/90s a little extra prep time, they could probably expand their range to match them in a few weeks. It's more of a stylistic thing than a substantive one. As if Dell Curry, Stephon's dad and a shooting specialist from Jordan's era simply wouldn't have it in him to ever match his son's range. As if his shorter, even slower and less athletic son is some sort of evolutionary leap forward that his dad's generation could never hope to match. Good grief, give me a break.

Quite frankly the fact that Stephon Curry is one of the superstars of this current region would not bode well IMO, for how dominant players from today would be over Jordan and his ilk.
You're a moron. Good day
 
Money is irrelevant to how good a player is or isnt.

Players are MUCH MUCH MUCH better shooters and ball handlers now than they ever were. Its not even close. 7 footers are hitting 3s from 25 feet out. It's ridiculous how talented players have become

Afraid to address my point, again.

Money is certainly relevant. People paying $200 to $2000 for a ticket these days. You think the refs will give a 'star' they came to see 3 quick fouls that he deserved, so that he sits the first half? Talk about ridiculous.
 
Afraid to address my point, again.

Money is certainly relevant. People paying $200 to $2000 for a ticket these days. You think the refs will give a 'star' they came to see 3 quick fouls that he deserved, so that he sits the first half? Talk about ridiculous.
Your point makes no point. Players get 3 fouls In the first half all the time. Harden and Giannis just did recently. Its not a rare thing.

And again, your point has nothing to do with who are the better players or not. I guess it point is the officiating was better in the 60s idk. I think I remember reading Wilt never fouled out of a game in his life. While Shaq did a bunch of times. So your point is meaningless, and still wrong at the same time. And who cares.

Edit: Jokic currently has 3 fouls in the 1st half lol
 
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Your point makes no point. Players get 3 fouls In the first half all the time. Harden and Giannis just did recently. Its not a rare thing.

And again, your point has nothing to do with who are the better players or not. I guess it point is the officiating was better in the 60s idk. I think I remember reading Wilt never fouled out of a game in his life. While Shaq did a bunch of times. So your point is meaningless, and still wrong at the same time. And who cares.

Edit: Jokic currently has 3 fouls in the 1st half lol

If the players today had to deal with the fouls that were called yesteryear, I would take Wilt Chamberiain, Pete Maravich, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Brian Sloane, Walt Frazier, Dave DeBusschere and so many others who made foul shots and played defense. You're too young. These guys would play up to your athletes and teach them to up their defensive game to my 60s-70s boys.

I admit I don't watch anymore as it is fixed and boring to me, so I don't really know the current talent, but 5 of the 7 guys I mentioned would be easily as good at 3-pointers as guys today. They just didn't get points (credit) for their long balls. Shooters are shooters in any generation.
I think with yesteryear refs and rules, your generation would get schooled by the older generation.
 
If the players today had to deal with the fouls that were called yesteryear, I would take Wilt Chamberiain, Pete Maravich, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Brian Sloane, Walt Frazier, Dave DeBusschere and so many others who made foul shots and played defense. You're too young. These guys would play up to your athletes and teach them to up their defensive game to my 60s-70s boys.

I admit I don't watch anymore as it is fixed and boring to me, so I don't really know the current talent, but 5 of the 7 guys I mentioned would be easily as good at 3-pointers as guys today. They just didn't get points (credit) for their long balls. Shooters are shooters in any generation.
I think with yesteryear refs and rules, your generation would get schooled by the older generation.
What always bothered me was how the refs played favorites. Allowed some like MJ to pretty much do whatever they wanted to. MJ should have gotten about 4 traveling violations each game.
 
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If the players today had to deal with the fouls that were called yesteryear, I would take Wilt Chamberiain, Pete Maravich, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Brian Sloane, Walt Frazier, Dave DeBusschere and so many others who made foul shots and played defense. You're too young. These guys would play up to your athletes and teach them to up their defensive game to my 60s-70s boys.

I admit I don't watch anymore as it is fixed and boring to me, so I don't really know the current talent, but 5 of the 7 guys I mentioned would be easily as good at 3-pointers as guys today. They just didn't get points (credit) for their long balls. Shooters are shooters in any generation.
I think with yesteryear refs and rules, your generation would get schooled by the older generation.
You dont watch, that explains it. You really have no clue how much more talented the players are now than before. Nothing against them. In 40 years, the players will be that much better than the players now. It's evolutuon

You're not going to beat today's athletes and their skills with set shots and barely being able to dribble with your left hand. Impossible
 
Nonsense.

So your position is that there’s absolutely no negative reaction to the politicalization of sports like Pro Basketball and Pro Football ?

You may want to rethink how you use the word “nonsense”
 
What always bothered me was how the refs played favorites. Allowed some like MJ to pretty much do whatever they wanted to. MJ should have gotten about 4 traveling violations each game.

I played golf with an NBA referee who admitted to me that they give the Superstars more leeway. It’s no longer a pure sport, it’s mostly entertainment !
 
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You dont watch, that explains it. You really have no clue how much more talented the players are now than before. Nothing against them. In 40 years, the players will be that much better than the players now. It's evolutuon

You're not going to beat today's athletes and their skills with set shots and barely being able to dribble with your left hand. Impossible

No junior, you have no clue. None of the guys I mentioned shot those set shots you ignorant fool. That explains what you don't know. YOU are clueless. And dribbling with only one hand? Again, you are obviously just a dumb kid.
 
No junior, you have no clue. None of the guys I mentioned shot those set shots you ignorant fool. That explains what you don't know. YOU are clueless. And dribbling with only one hand? Again, you are obviously just a dumb kid.
Not to those specific players. You mentioned the 60s correct, yes you did. And a bunch of players used the set shot then. You could never do that now.

You already admitted you dont watch so you have no clue what you are talking about old man. Take a nap. I respecr the elderly but if you're going to act like a clueless douche, I'll call you out old man
 
Not to those specific players. You mentioned the 60s correct, yes you did. And a bunch of players used the set shot then. You could never do that now.

You already admitted you dont watch so you have no clue what you are talking about old man. Take a nap. I respecr the elderly but if you're going to act like a clueless douche, I'll call you out old man

No, you're a punk in every post you make because you know it all. I was that age. And I mentioned the 60s AND 70s. How many players were doing set shots?

And, know it all, you act like it's the only shots they took! Those set shots were typically from long range with no one covering them. That's when you saw those.
 
Not to those specific players. You mentioned the 60s correct, yes you did. And a bunch of players used the set shot then. You could never do that now.

You already admitted you dont watch so you have no clue what you are talking about old man. Take a nap. I respecr the elderly but if you're going to act like a clueless douche, I'll call you out old man

And btw Junior, I watched 15+ yrs. of LeBron James playing the game. That's long enough to be able to say he's the best player I ever saw. Is there anyone, currently, that you'd say is better?

The problem with you is your limited frame of reference. You were probably just learning how to play catch using a mitt when MJ played.
 
And btw Junior, I watched 15+ yrs. of LeBron James playing the game. That's long enough to be able to say he's the best player I ever saw. Is there anyone, currently, that you'd say is better?

The problem with you is your limited frame of reference. You were probably just learning how to play catch using a mitt when MJ played.
I'm a basketball historian. I have vhs tapes of old games. I have dvds of old games. I have half of my dvr full of old games. I know more about the nba than most. That's not bragging, there's plenty of things I have no clue about, the nba isn't one of them.

Lebron and MJ are the 2 best basketball players I have ever seen. Magic being the 3rd probably.

The problem with most people is they havent watched a game of basketball from the 70s or 80s in 30 years.

Take some time out of your day, watch a game from now, then turn on a game from the 70s or 80s. The athleticism and skill difference is drastic. It's shocking

You probably wont. You'll just run your mouth about how a younger person cant possibly know more than an older man like yourself. Save it
 
I'm a basketball historian. I have vhs tapes of old games. I have dvds of old games. I have half of my dvr full of old games. I know more about the nba than most. That's not bragging, there's plenty of things I have no clue about, the nba isn't one of them.

Lebron and MJ are the 2 best basketball players I have ever seen. Magic being the 3rd probably.

The problem with most people is they havent watched a game of basketball from the 70s or 80s in 30 years.

Take some time out of your day, watch a game from now, then turn on a game from the 70s or 80s. The athleticism and skill difference is drastic. It's shocking

You probably wont. You'll just run your mouth about how a younger person cant possibly know more than an older man like yourself. Save it

I don't need to re-watch those days, I lived during those days. I have always stated that the athleticism has grown throughout sports. But, good players are timeless. I'm maintaining everything I have posted. Maybe you should re-read those. Game got boring. Players play over the rim. Dunking is now the LEAST exciting part of the game because anyone can dunk. Money definitely has impacted the game from its original team game to a me game...what else...refs give way to stardom...what else...players back then played defense. Their offense, I believe, would be raised to the competition. And as refs would call games as they did before big money, I honestly don't think the current players would be able to adjust, hence, they'd get smoked by the old guys due to turnovers and offensive fouls...there my crib notes for you, junior.
 
I don't need to re-watch those days, I lived during those days. I have always stated that the athleticism has grown throughout sports. But, good players are timeless. I'm maintaining everything I have posted. Maybe you should re-read those. Game got boring. Players play over the rim. Dunking is now the LEAST exciting part of the game because anyone can dunk. Money definitely has impacted the game from its original team game to a me game...what else...refs give way to stardom...what else...players back then played defense. Their offense, I believe, would be raised to the competition. And as refs would call games as they did before big money, I honestly don't think the current players would be able to adjust, hence, they'd get smoked by the old guys due to turnovers and offensive fouls...there my crib notes for you, junior.
Players can adjust through eras in terms of how the refs call the game.

One thing you cant adjust or change, athleticism. You either have it or you dont. These players are insanely athletic conpared to yesteryear.

Thats a big problem that you havent rewatched any games lately. Because in your mind, at that time, those players were extremely athletic and skilled. Which they were. But when you advance 40 years, the players are wayy more atgletic and skilled now. Physically more fit, stronger, more athletic.

If you'd go back and watch, you'd see not many guys in the 70s could dribble with theor off hand well at all. Some yes, but not many. Now, the players handles are insane. Its just a drastic diiference, pops
 
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