To win a championship you need a TOP/Elite QB

[Zorich 88]

Or at least the QB has to have an elite season.

Look at the 4 playoff teams.

OSU
Clemson
Sooners
LSU

All have elite QBs

Yes, everything starts with coaching. However. Look at past championship winners.

Texas: Vince Young. Brown was not an elite coach.

Auburn: Cam.
Gene Chizik definitely not elite.

Book had an elite season last year. Hopefully he can have another one next year.

 

[notredamerises23]

Yup. You need multiple top recruiting classes of both athletes and linemen, very good coaching, AND an elite QB to have a hope of winning a national title in the CFP era.

2019: Fields, Burrow, Lawrence, Hurts; Tua when he was in the hunt

2018: Tua, Lawrence, Murray, Book (not really elite but was very good as he was top 10 in QBR before the Clemson game)

2017: Hurts, Murray, Fromm, Bryant ( NOT elite, but good)

2016: Watson, Browning (not elite but had a top 10QBR year that season), Hurts (eventually elite though not that year, but Tide had NFL talent everywhere else, especially on defense.

2015: Watson, Mayfield, Sims (not elite, but NFL talent everywhere else), Cook (future NFL QB with a good senior year)

 

[Golson5]

Or at least the QB has to have an elite season.

Look at the 4 playoff teams.

OSU
Clemson
Sooners
LSU

All have elite QBs

Yes, everything starts with coaching. However. Look at past championship winners.

Texas: Vince Young. Brown was not an elite coach.

Auburn: Cam.
Gene Chizik definitely not elite.

Book had an elite season last year. Hopefully he can have another one next year.

Book does not have that level

 

[chaseball]

This idea of an "elite qb" has kind of taken on a life of its own.

If you look at all the teams with "elite qbs" most of them had elite rosters all-around including a scheme/system that really maximized their talent.

It isn't an "elite qb" as much as an elite roster, elite scheme, elite offensive coordinator, etc.

 

[Zorich 88]

Book does not have that level

If Book can recapture last season and ND finds a run game, ND could make the playoffs next season.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Yes.

 

[Zorich 88]

This idea of an "elite qb" has kind of taken on a life of its own.

If you look at all the teams with "elite qbs" most of them had elite rosters all-around including a scheme/system that really maximized their talent.

It isn't an "elite qb" as much as an elite roster, elite scheme, elite offensive coordinator, etc.

You can replace really good RB’s and WR’s with good RB’s and WR’s.

However, you cannot replace an elite QB with a good QB.

Look at Bama this season.

Elite players all over the roster. However, Tua goes down and what happens? Bama goes down and misses the playoffs.

 

[Irishjohn68]

Or at least the QB has to have an elite season.

Look at the 4 playoff teams.

OSU
Clemson
Sooners
LSU

All have elite QBs

Yes, everything starts with coaching. However. Look at past championship winners.

Texas: Vince Young. Brown was not an elite coach.

Auburn: Cam.
Gene Chizik definitely not elite.

Book had an elite season last year. Hopefully he can have another one next year.

I hope you didn't just figure this out.

 

[Zorich 88]

I hope you didn't just figure this out.

Last night

 

[Golson5]

If Book can recapture last season and ND finds a run game, ND could make the playoffs next season.

Yes they can. Still wont make Book elite

 

[chaseball]

If Book can recapture last season and ND finds a run game, ND could make the playoffs next season.

You mean if Ian Book has two upperclassmen NFL prospects by his side in 2020 like he did in 2018?

 

[Golson5]

You can replace really good RB’s and WR’s with good RB’s and WR’s.

However, you cannot replace an elite QB with a good QB.

Look at Bama this season.

Elite players all over the roster. However, Tua goes down and what happens? Bama goes down and misses the playoffs.

Huh? They lost 1 game with Tua. The other loss they scored 45 points and lost bc of the defense

 

[Irishjohn68]

Last night

LOL!

 

[chaseball]

Here's my issue with these type of posts (in case it wasn't obvious I have a slight pet peeve with them).

These posts "the elite qb theory" diminishes the gargantuan task of how difficult it is to build a national title winner.

Here's what you need to win a national title:

1. You need a roster stacked/balanced 85 deep in the first tier of talent.
2. You need to MAX the development of that talent
3. You need star players/nfl talent/all americans/national-rated talent all over the roster
4. You need the perfect scheme on both sides of the ball to maximize all of the potential of the talent
5. You need to be 3-4 deep at every critical position to withstand injury/inevitable roster attrition.

etc. etc. etc.

There's no quick fixes. There are no magic bullets or shortcuts. There's no magic QB who is going to come to ND and save the program from all the ways it's losing in all of the items listed above.

If ND ever wants to win another national title they MUST beat the other elite programs at doing the items listed 1-5 above. And right now they are not even on the same planet as those other guys.

 

[Zorich 88]

Huh? They lost 1 game with Tua. The other loss they scored 45 points and lost bc of the defense

Remember, Tua had ankle surgery two weeks before the LSU game.

Bama struggled for three quarters in that game. Tua was clearly not 100%. That effects the defense by keeping them on the field to long.

Tua is the heart and soul of that team. When he went down the ripple effect was felt throughout the team.

 

[Zorich 88]

Here's my issue with these type of posts (in case it wasn't obvious I have a slight pet peeve with them).

These posts "the elite qb theory" diminishes the gargantuan task of how difficult it is to build a national title winner.

1. You need a roster stacked/balanced 85 deep in the first tier of talent.
2. You need to MAX the development of that talent
3. You need star players/nfl talent/all americans/national-rated talent all over the roster
4. You need a scheme to maximize all of the potential of the talent
5. You need to be 4+ deep at every critical position to withstand injury/inevitable roster attrition.

etc. etc. etc.

There's no quick fixes. There are no magic bullets or shortcuts. There's no magic QB who is going to come to ND and save the program from all the ways it's losing in all of the items I listed above.

My #1-#5

1. Elite QB
2. Elite QB
3. Elite QB
4. Elite QB
5. Elite QB

 

[Golson5]

Remember, Tua had ankle surgery two weeks before the LSU game.

Bama struggled for three quarters in that game. Tua was clearly not 100%. That effects the defense by keeping them on the field to long.

Tua is the heart and soul of that team. When he went down the ripple effect was felt throughout the team.

Excuses. They got beat by a better team and their defense got throttled

 

[Irishjohn68]

Remember, Tua had ankle surgery two weeks before the LSU game.

Bama struggled for three quarters in that game. Tua was clearly not 100%. That effects the defense by keeping them on the field to long.

Tua is the heart and soul of that team. When he went down the ripple effect was felt throughout the team.

IMO Bama was going to get beaten by LSU if Tua played or not. Joe Burrow is the best QB in college football and LSU is a beast.

 

[Zorich 88]

Excuses. They got beat by a better team and their defense got throttled

Who’s defense got throttled?

Both defenses got throttled that game.

41-46

 

[Golson5]

Who’s defense got throttled?

Both defenses got throttled that game.

41-46

Who said they didnt? Still doesnt change the fact you are making excuses. Bamas defense got throttled and they got beat by the better team. At home.

 

[d1042]

If Book can recapture last season and ND finds a run game, ND could make the playoffs next season.

to do that ND has to beat CU!

 

[bizzybecknd]

This idea of an "elite qb" has kind of taken on a life of its own.

If you look at all the teams with "elite qbs" most of them had elite rosters all-around including a scheme/system that really maximized their talent.

It isn't an "elite qb" as much as an elite roster, elite scheme, elite offensive coordinator, etc.

Disagree.. if Book is QBing any of the playoff teams, I doubt they’re in this position right now.. maybe Clemson.

 

[chitown sot]

Or at least the QB has to have an elite season.

Look at the 4 playoff teams.

OSU
Clemson
Sooners
LSU

All have elite QBs

Yes, everything starts with coaching. However. Look at past championship winners.

Texas: Vince Young. Brown was not an elite coach.

Auburn: Cam.
Gene Chizik definitely not elite.

Book had an elite season last year. Hopefully he can have another one next year.

The problem is BK can't develop QBs. In ten years none of his QBs developed/improved. Not one. And now we have Turnover Tommy as the QB coach, fricking joke.

 

[d1042]

Playoff QB’s
1. Trevor Lawrence
2,3,4, are guys that some here would have labeled as ATC guys!
Hurts
Barrow
Fields
All 3, ‘afraid to compete’ guys!
or more accurately stated,
‘afraid to NOT compete’

The 3 chose to play rather than stand on the sidelines watching the games!
(are you grasping this Pennick? Echo?).
Sidelines= not competing
Playing = competing

How did this criticism of transferring to play get distorted into
‘afraid to compete’?

 

[BGI User 1596]

The problem is BK can't develop QBs. In ten years none of his QBs developed/improved. Not one. And now we have Turnover Tommy as the QB coach, fricking joke.

Ouch!

 

[graceh90]

The problem is BK can't develop QBs. In ten years none of his QBs developed/improved. Not one. And now we have Turnover Tommy as the QB coach, fricking joke.

1. BS
2. 3 of the 4 playoff teams this year didn’t recruit or develop their starting QBs

 

[chaseball]

1. BS
2. 3 of the 4 playoff teams this year didn’t recruit or develop their starting QBs

No they just had some of the most talented rosters in the country with really good offensive schemes in place and picked off the QB they needed from another program.

Which one of these items can Notre Dame fundamentally replicate?

 

[BGI User 1596]

No they just had some of the most talented rosters in the country with really good offensive schemes in place and picked off the QB they needed from another program.

Which one of these items can Notre Dame fundamentally replicate?

But ND beat them last time!

 

[Golson5]

The problem is BK can't develop QBs. In ten years none of his QBs developed/improved. Not one. And now we have Turnover Tommy as the QB coach, fricking joke.

That's not the problem. Developing QBs. The problem is recruiting the right QB. Kelly had landed 1 really talented qb, Kizer.

If we keep Buchner, he will be the 2nd. And Buchner is by far the best prospect we landed

 

[d1042]

IMO Bama was going to get beaten by LSU if Tua played or not. Joe Burrow is the best QB in college football and LSU is a beast.

No sure thing, but LSU is having a magical year!
Lawrence is the best QB, and it ain’t close.

 

[Zorich 88]

The problem is BK can't develop QBs. In ten years none of his QBs developed/improved. Not one. And now we have Turnover Tommy as the QB coach, fricking joke.

DK still in the NFL

 

[amazingreis]

If Book can recapture last season and ND finds a run game, ND could make the playoffs next season.

If your grandmother had balls, she'd be your grandfather

 

[Zorich 88]

If your grandmother had balls, she'd be your grandfather

Book played at an elite level last year.

He has proven he can play at that level.

 

[Golson5]

Book played at an elite level last year.

He has proven he can play at that level.

Hes not an elite QB

 

[Zorich 88]

Hes not an elite QB

I agree he is not. However, he played at a very elite level last year.

 

[NyyorkerND]

I agree he is not. However, he played at a very elite level last year.

Zo like many that are quoted here I don't agree with you bc we've had elite QB play over the years. Jimmy Clausen was an elite QB and we lost with him bc we didn't have a complete team. You need both to be a champion. I'm not sold on Book he's a solid COLLEGE qb for me to call a kid elite means he has a future in the NFL as a high caliber prospect.

You can win a chip with solid QB play last decade or so Bama repeatedly, Florida, LSU, OSU, and Oklahoma. All these teams had elite play makers on both sides of the ball to go along with solid QB play.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Zo like many that are quoted here I don't agree with you bc we've had elite QB play over the years. Jimmy Clausen was an elite QB and we lost with him bc we didn't have a complete team. You need both to be a champion. I'm not sold on Book he's a solid COLLEGE qb for me to call a kid elite means he has a future in the NFL as a high caliber prospect.

You can win a chip with solid QB play last decade or so Bama repeatedly, Florida, LSU, OSU, and Oklahoma. All these teams had elite play makers on both sides of the ball to go along with solid QB play.

Ian's numbers in 3 total years of play are better than Jimmy's numbers. Ian's QBR is 10 points higher as well with 10 less interceptions.

 

[NyyorkerND]

Ian's numbers in 3 total years of play are better than Jimmy's numbers. Ian's QBR is 10 points higher as well with 10 less interceptions.

Eye test. It's not about stats. It's about talent at the position from the pocket. When talking about elite prospects IMO.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Eye test. It's not about stats. It's about talent at the position from the pocket. When talking about elite prospects IMO.

I can say that Jimmy certainly looked the part and following in Brady's footsteps was no easy task and he was in no way awful. I think that is a valid point that you pose. I do think that Book is not holding us back from competing for a title though, I maybe in the minority there but I feel like he is talented enough to win here.

 

[Golson5]

I agree he is not. However, he played at a very elite level last year.

Disagree