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Things that make you go "Hmmmmmm"

It's called an outlier. The other 100+ national championship winning teams likely blew away a bottom feeding FBS team on their way to their national titles.
 
In the years leading up the 2016 Dabo was 11-2, 10-3 and 14-1 with 2 Orange Bowl wins (one a playoff game) and a 45-40 loss to 'Bama in the NC game. Dabo has 7 straight years of winning 10+ games.

Prior to this season Kelly was 10-3, 4-8, 10-3 with a Citrus Bowl win over 9-2 LSU. No playoffs, no major bowl wins and 6 years ago he got humiliated by 42-14 by Bama.

When Kelly can string together at least 3 10 win seasons in a row and a couple of major bowl wins maybe fans will cut him some slack. Until then... we have seen this movie before.

ND will struggle to beat Ball St because "winning is hard", we will then drop games to a couple of the following teams; Va Tech, Stanford, USC. We will probably then drop 1 or 2 more to some team we shouldn't and finish with 8 or 9 wins. This isn't year 1 or 2, it's not even year 5, it's year 9 we have seen this all before so let's not pretend the game against Ball was some sort of anomaly, it's a precursor.
 
In the years leading up the 2016 Dabo was 11-2, 10-3 and 14-1 with 2 Orange Bowl wins (one a playoff game) and a 45-40 loss to 'Bama in the NC game. Dabo has 7 straight years of winning 10+ games.

Prior to this season Kelly was 10-3, 4-8, 10-3 with a Citrus Bowl win over 9-2 LSU. No playoffs, no major bowl wins and 6 years ago he got humiliated by 42-14 by Bama.

When Kelly can string together at least 3 10 win seasons in a row and a couple of major bowl wins maybe fans will cut him some slack. Until then... we have seen this movie before.

ND will struggle to beat Ball St because "winning is hard", we will then drop games to a couple of the following teams; Va Tech, Stanford, USC. We will probably then drop 1 or 2 more to some team we shouldn't and finish with 8 or 9 wins. This isn't year 1 or 2, it's not even year 5, it's year 9 we have seen this all before so let's not pretend the game against Ball was some sort of anomaly, it's a precursor.
Great post. I'd like to add this...

There are a lot of people on this board who think posts like yours represent self-hating ND fans who love to be negative about the program. "Why can't you just enjoy the fact that we are 2-0 and let the season play out?", they'll ask. All you stated were facts backed by 9 years of empirical evidence. When you say recent performance is a precursor of what is to come, some fans will interpret that as you hoping we have a subpar season. I'm guessing you are like me - I hope BK and ND fix all of their issues with the OL and QB and we win the rest of our games. I really do. I'll even go so far as to say it's possible. But is it likely?

It is obvious you are like me and you know that "hope" and "what's likely" are two different things. Some people don't want to ponder what's likely and then criticize the people who do for being pessimists. Pessimists are irrational. They see only the negative no matter the evidence. I don't think we are pessimists. We are realists who have seen this movie before.

But sure, we also hope there's a twist ending that will pleasantly surprise us.
 
Yeah I don't think BK has the offensive coaching chops to "play vanilla" early in the season, and save the good stuff for later in the season. If we "play vanilla" against a lame team early, it usually just means we aren't very good. Sort of like when Wimbush can't hit a huge net from 10 yards in preseason practice, doesn't mean he can flip a switch and start hitting it when the season starts.
 
Great post. I'd like to add this...

There are a lot of people on this board who think posts like yours represent self-hating ND fans who love to be negative about the program. "Why can't you just enjoy the fact that we are 2-0 and let the season play out?", they'll ask. All you stated were facts backed by 9 years of empirical evidence. When you say recent performance is a precursor of what is to come, some fans will interpret that as you hoping we have a subpar season. I'm guessing you are like me - I hope BK and ND fix all of their issues with the OL and QB and we win the rest of our games. I really do. I'll even go so far as to say it's possible. But is it likely?

It is obvious you are like me and you know that "hope" and "what's likely" are two different things. Some people don't want to ponder what's likely and then criticize the people who do for being pessimists. Pessimists are irrational. They see only the negative no matter the evidence. I don't think we are pessimists. We are realists who have seen this movie before.

But sure, we also hope there's a twist ending that will pleasantly surprise us.

Hate to break it to you but i don't see us winning all of our remaining games. I see us losing at least 2 more. If you're a realist you would understand this isn't a championship team. Limited qb play and a shaky o line will be our downfall.

I'm not going to be upset about it and I'm not disappointed i just want to watch good football on Saturday. We need to consistently win 9 plus games a year, produce 1st rounders other than the o line and hopefully we'll land our fair share of upper election elechon talent.
 
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Most championship teams have a game where their play is less than stellar. Hell, ND's 1988 NC team struggled with a 3 win Navy team before winning 22-7.
 
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Great post. I'd like to add this...

There are a lot of people on this board who think posts like yours represent self-hating ND fans who love to be negative about the program. "Why can't you just enjoy the fact that we are 2-0 and let the season play out?", they'll ask. All you stated were facts backed by 9 years of empirical evidence. When you say recent performance is a precursor of what is to come, some fans will interpret that as you hoping we have a subpar season. I'm guessing you are like me - I hope BK and ND fix all of their issues with the OL and QB and we win the rest of our games. I really do. I'll even go so far as to say it's possible. But is it likely?

It is obvious you are like me and you know that "hope" and "what's likely" are two different things. Some people don't want to ponder what's likely and then criticize the people who do for being pessimists. Pessimists are irrational. They see only the negative no matter the evidence. I don't think we are pessimists. We are realists who have seen this movie before.

But sure, we also hope there's a twist ending that will pleasantly surprise us.
Very well put....

Totalky spot on with these posters thinking its rooting for ND to fail. They couldn't be more wrong.

We all want BK to succeed. We all want his QB to play better in year two and three.
We really want him to finally win a major bowl.
We really do.

Yet posters on here take offense to reality speak.

I don't care if they accept the program's performance under BK.

Why they care if we aren't happy with BK and the product over the past nine years is beyond me.

It's hilarious to me that you can say BK is not very good at xyz and they take it like you said their momma is ugly.
 
Great post. I'd like to add this...

There are a lot of people on this board who think posts like yours represent self-hating ND fans who love to be negative about the program. "Why can't you just enjoy the fact that we are 2-0 and let the season play out?", they'll ask. All you stated were facts backed by 9 years of empirical evidence. When you say recent performance is a precursor of what is to come, some fans will interpret that as you hoping we have a subpar season. I'm guessing you are like me - I hope BK and ND fix all of their issues with the OL and QB and we win the rest of our games. I really do. I'll even go so far as to say it's possible. But is it likely?

It is obvious you are like me and you know that "hope" and "what's likely" are two different things. Some people don't want to ponder what's likely and then criticize the people who do for being pessimists. Pessimists are irrational. They see only the negative no matter the evidence. I don't think we are pessimists. We are realists who have seen this movie before.

But sure, we also hope there's a twist ending that will pleasantly surprise us.

fantastic post, agreed 100%
 
Very well put....

Totalky spot on with these posters thinking its rooting for ND to fail. They couldn't be more wrong.

We all want BK to succeed. We all want his QB to play better in year two and three.
We really want him to finally win a major bowl.
We really do.

Yet posters on here take offense to reality speak.

I don't care if they accept the program's performance under BK.

Why they care if we aren't happy with BK and the product over the past nine years is beyond me.

It's hilarious to me that you can say BK is not very good at xyz and they take it like you said their momma is ugly.
And cannot be reality speak, because it's a new season and you are assuming things that have yet to happen. That's not exactly reality, rather what you think reality will be. Let the season play out, and start the negativity and bitching at the proper time. Hey, I'll join in if your reality actually becomes reality
 
Hate to break it to you but i don't see us winning all of our remaining games. I see us losing at least 2 more. If you're a realist you would understand this isn't a championship team. Limited qb play and a shaky o line will be our downfall.

I'm not going to be upset about it and I'm not disappointed i just want to watch good football on Saturday. We need to consistently win 9 plus games a year, produce 1st rounders other than the o line and hopefully we'll land our fair share of upper election elechon talent.

Two more?
 
Great post. I'd like to add this...

There are a lot of people on this board who think posts like yours represent self-hating ND fans who love to be negative about the program. "Why can't you just enjoy the fact that we are 2-0 and let the season play out?", they'll ask. All you stated were facts backed by 9 years of empirical evidence. When you say recent performance is a precursor of what is to come, some fans will interpret that as you hoping we have a subpar season. I'm guessing you are like me - I hope BK and ND fix all of their issues with the OL and QB and we win the rest of our games. I really do. I'll even go so far as to say it's possible. But is it likely?

It is obvious you are like me and you know that "hope" and "what's likely" are two different things. Some people don't want to ponder what's likely and then criticize the people who do for being pessimists. Pessimists are irrational. They see only the negative no matter the evidence. I don't think we are pessimists. We are realists who have seen this movie before.

But sure, we also hope there's a twist ending that will pleasantly surprise us.
Excellent post!!! You summed up my thoughts and feelings exactly. I'd like nothing more to come here in December and say I was wrong, I'll do so with glee. Great post!
 
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This team is 9-3. An upset loss and 2 reasonable losses. Sporadic passing game, inconsistent running and horrid special teams.
 
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And cannot be reality speak, because it's a new season and you are assuming things that have yet to happen. That's not exactly reality, rather what you think reality will be. Let the season play out, and start the negativity and bitching at the proper time. Hey, I'll join in if your reality actually becomes reality
I'm not sure your world of reality but my version is..

Sporadic passing game. Wing it and pray. Game one the recievers answered the prayers and outplayed Michigan's secondary and bailed out BW. After that the offense went stale.

Game two the same passing was on display. Wing it and pray. This time though the prayers were answered by the Ball State secondary.

I'd love to say either of the above was just a bad game but the REALITY of it is we've seen eight years of this kind of football in someway shape or form.

BW showed absolutely zero improvement from last year.
The running game will suffer badly just because the QB play alone. Nobody respects the passing game.
Special teams is still a mess. Etc etc etc

It baffles me how so many posters are ok with mediocre football. After eight years you'd think they've had enough but apparently they are content.
 
Rationalize it however you want, but I think it's reasonable for fans to express concern after beating the easiest team on the schedule by far, by only one score.
 
hmmm:
extending the school day, year
traffic camera’s
sanctuary states (sactuary to lawbreakers?)
Democrats, any
Liberals, any
why everything isn’t made of chocolate?
why can’t people not get along?
and!
WOMEN
 
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Rationalize it however you want, but I think it's reasonable for fans to express concern after beating the easiest team on the schedule by far, by only one score.

"but I think it's reasonable for fans to express concern after beating the easiest team on the schedule by far, by only one score."

In watching this game (as bad as it was) do you really think that ND put any effort into this at all? Not disrespecting Ball State, but ND literally just went through the motions out there Saturday.

Can you honestly say that, if the team that showed up against Michigan even remotely showed up Saturday, the result would have been larger? Also -- was ND ever in danger of losing this game?

I am not rationalizing ND performance Saturday (I think we all agree -- it was terrible and not fun to watch) -- I think the next 3 weeks (Vandy, WF and Stanford) will determine how this season will play out. I think last Saturday was more about it being glorified practice/scrimmage than a game for ND -- I think the coaches went into the game with the mind set of working on things rather than actual game planning (that is my.25 worth of analysis).
 
"but I think it's reasonable for fans to express concern after beating the easiest team on the schedule by far, by only one score."

In watching this game (as bad as it was) do you really think that ND put any effort into this at all? Not disrespecting Ball State, but ND literally just went through the motions out there Saturday.

Can you honestly say that, if the team that showed up against Michigan even remotely showed up Saturday, the result would have been larger? Also -- was ND ever in danger of losing this game?

I am not rationalizing ND performance Saturday (I think we all agree -- it was terrible and not fun to watch) -- I think the next 3 weeks (Vandy, WF and Stanford) will determine how this season will play out. I think last Saturday was more about it being glorified practice/scrimmage than a game for ND -- I think the coaches went into the game with the mind set of working on things rather than actual game planning (that is my.25 worth of analysis).
Maybe defensively...

But on offense if was the same wing it and pray passing from BW as week one. This time we didn't get the luck when throwing into double and triple coverage

That MUST stop!
 
I agree, it did look like ND was treating this game as a scrimmage, or a chance to work on things. I guess they wanted to work on BW being a pocket passing threat, instead of working on being a running threat. Hopefully that fools 'em all!

If the goal was to not show your playbook against an inferior MAC team, then I suppose it was a success. The problem is, I don't think there's some super-ingenious playbook that's going to be unleashed later in the season. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be in BK's arsenal.

I did find it disturbing that the BK tradition of having some of the worst special teams play in all the land is alive and well.
 
"but I think it's reasonable for fans to express concern after beating the easiest team on the schedule by far, by only one score."

In watching this game (as bad as it was) do you really think that ND put any effort into this at all? Not disrespecting Ball State, but ND literally just went through the motions out there Saturday.

Can you honestly say that, if the team that showed up against Michigan even remotely showed up Saturday, the result would have been larger? Also -- was ND ever in danger of losing this game?

I am not rationalizing ND performance Saturday (I think we all agree -- it was terrible and not fun to watch) -- I think the next 3 weeks (Vandy, WF and Stanford) will determine how this season will play out. I think last Saturday was more about it being glorified practice/scrimmage than a game for ND -- I think the coaches went into the game with the mind set of working on things rather than actual game planning (that is my.25 worth of analysis).
I think there’re a bunch of teams who could “go through the motions” and beat Ball State by more than one score.
 
I think there’re a bunch of teams who could “go through the motions” and beat Ball State by more than one score.
That's my concern. O line is what ruined the game. If they would have just went through the motions we win 40 - 6. Instead the Oline crapped the bed and we won by a score. If the Oline can improve i'm confident this will be a really good team, if not, they will scrap it out the majority of their games left to try and get wins.
 
Of all the position groups the group that is least ‘individualistic’ is the OL.
The offensive line is in one sense 1 player comprised of 5 parts, each dependent of the proper functioning of the other, in unison according to design. This group just needs to fine tune out the misfires. This will take more than a game or two.
 
Of all the position groups the group that is least ‘individualistic’ is the OL.
The offensive line is in one sense 1 player comprised of 5 parts, each dependent of the proper functioning of the other, in unison according to design. This group just needs to fine tune out the misfires. This will take more than a game or two.

Great wisdom coach perse/justified/any other handles you create for yourself.

Bring back perse. Go for 60k!
 
"but I think it's reasonable for fans to express concern after beating the easiest team on the schedule by far, by only one score."

In watching this game (as bad as it was) do you really think that ND put any effort into this at all? Not disrespecting Ball State, but ND literally just went through the motions out there Saturday.

Can you honestly say that, if the team that showed up against Michigan even remotely showed up Saturday, the result would have been larger? Also -- was ND ever in danger of losing this game?

I am not rationalizing ND performance Saturday (I think we all agree -- it was terrible and not fun to watch) -- I think the next 3 weeks (Vandy, WF and Stanford) will determine how this season will play out. I think last Saturday was more about it being glorified practice/scrimmage than a game for ND -- I think the coaches went into the game with the mind set of working on things rather than actual game planning (that is my.25 worth of analysis).
Again, this just comes across as an attempt at rationalizing the problem away, in order to alleviate the discomforting fact that this team and program may be overrated and flawed. If Wimbush is so poor against a garbage defense like Ball State, how can one possibly feel confident once the thick of the schedule approaches?

I hope they were not really trying, but I am not convinced of this given the aggressive plays being called. We were not exactly going conservative when Wimbush is throwing vertically and trying to force issues downfield.

However, if they were not giving their all, then that is also troubling. How can a player not show up when there are only 12 of these a year? Do they have something else on their minds? Are they already bored of the season two games in? Kelly needs to get his guys' heads in the game each time they suit up, as every game is important when building a strong resumé. A close game to Ball State could haunt us at the end of the season when the committee looks at the playoff contenders.

No reason teams like Oklahoma, Alabama, OSU, (even Michigan) etc...throttle the lesser foes consistently, while ND often plays down to the competition.
 
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“However, if they were not giving their all, then that is also troubling. How can a player not show up when there are only 12 of these a year? Do they have something else on their minds? Are they already bored of the season two games in?”

Excellent point. I never understood how anyone can come out flat in a game. Like you said, there’s only a handful of games, you’d think they’d be foaming at the mouth for each and every one, regardless of the the opponent.
 
“However, if they were not giving their all, then that is also troubling. How can a player not show up when there are only 12 of these a year? Do they have something else on their minds? Are they already bored of the season two games in?”

Excellent point. I never understood how anyone can come out flat in a game. Like you said, there’s only a handful of games, you’d think they’d be foaming at the mouth for each and every one, regardless of the the opponent.
It's the human factor. you see it at every single level every single year. it will never go away. it also happens in every walk of life.
 
Maybe so, but I guess that’s part of coaching. Try to do your best to make your players avoid letdowns. Some do it better than others I guess.
 
Maybe so, but I guess that’s part of coaching. Try to do your best to make your players avoid letdowns. Some do it better than others I guess.
true. prime example, in 1989 we played #1 ND and #2 Miami in consecutive weeks. lost both in close games, one away, one home. the next week we played at Iowa who was godawful that year and we barely escaped 17-14. on paper we should have won easily going away but its why the games are actually played on the field and not paper. i know its cliche to say but its been that way forever.
 
I’m w/ you, echo. I know it happens, it’s just a little puzzling it does considering the small amount of times you get to showcase your game. I’m aware different people respond differently to things, some are more laissez faire about things, but if it’s what you’re doing at the time, playing college football, you’d think you wouldn’t need an extra nudge when the lights come on. I can see how a seasoned NFL veteran that’s taken a 15-20 year long beating needing a little extra umph to get up for games, but for college players, it baffles me.
 
It was the perfect storm, more than just a let down game by the players.

-let down game by the players
-zero effort by the coaches
-no game plan to the players strengths, it was about improving weaknesses
-Ball State came with a plan to compete
-terrible oline play

If it was just a let down game ND still wins by 21+ to ball state.
 
UT by 20.
SC OL woes.
SC lost Starting S. the backup S., the backup to the backup S now is playing a 1st year Fr. CB at S.
SC still has the combo of Helton and Tee. A formula for futilty.
 
“However, if they were not giving their all, then that is also troubling. How can a player not show up when there are only 12 of these a year? Do they have something else on their minds? Are they already bored of the season two games in?”

Excellent point. I never understood how anyone can come out flat in a game. Like you said, there’s only a handful of games, you’d think they’d be foaming at the mouth for each and every one, regardless of the the opponent.
I've wondered that myself about low energy and coming out flat when you only have 12 games to play. First off, from my experience the intentsity and effort you see in practice is usually what you'll see in the game. My guess is ND didn't practice very hard last week and just went through the motions and you know Ball State had to be pumped up and raring to go for this game. And yes, while I'm sure ND players do appreciate putting on that gold helmet to play for our mother the luster wears off. It's like going into a relationship with the prom queen. You're so happy in the beginning, but then you realize how much work it takes to be in a relationship. Remember, these guys are on the go all day everyday. That catches up to you. Lou Holtz once said that each has about 2-3 games a season when they don't play to their full potential. Ultimately, this falls on the coach. Need to find a way to keep your players motivated and keep their attention such as switching up the practice schedule or having them be in full pads every practice of the week, even if you don't plan on doing thud.
 
UT by 20.
SC OL woes.
SC lost Starting S. the backup S., the backup to the backup S now is playing a 1st year Fr. CB at S.
SC still has the combo of Helton and Tee. A formula for futilty.

I can't see USC losing to Maryland AS DID TEXAS.

Even with Helton, they have too much talent to sink that low.
 
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