The "realists" are out and the trolls are hungry!

[88ND]

"Cole and any other good pitcher get better with age. They get more intelligent." It really is not this clean cut man. IQ while it is important pales in comparison to developing a third and forth pitch. There is really far too many variables to just chalk it up to one thing, I think you are extremely off base in claiming @nemeth#5 knows very little about baseball lol. When you say stuff like that you just come off like a tool because we all know well that is not at all true.

Yes offensive production effects a pitchers record but it does not impact his ERA does it? Or how hard he is throwing? Yes errors impact a pitcher pitch count and can impact runs scored but it does not count against his ERA. When you are dissecting a pitcher you are really not looking for numbers that are out of the pitchers control. The schematics of pitching also pales in comparison to teaching pitchers a better release or balance, things related more to delivery, the non tangible things that are not recorded in baseball are more often in not the most important things.

Thank you for making my point...both really.

Lack of offensive production you damn well better believe hurts an ERA over the course of a season.

As I said you must pitch differently at different times without offensive support. It's not the errors that impact the ERA directly but the what if on am error happening that makes you pitch defensively. The lack of offense makes you pitch defensively. Not just in one situation in the playoffs mind you but every damn start you have to pitch defensively. Why? No support. Just like the defensive plays that don't happen on your behalf. They aren't errors if a player has less range. It just looks like a hit.

There are many factors outside the tunnel vision that go into MLB pitching that impact many stats like an ERA. I have relation that was a good Pro pitcher and trust me when I tell you it's not as simple to just pitch for the Pirates as the Red Sox or Yankees.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Thank you for making my point...both really.

Lack of offensive production you damn well better believe hurts an ERA over the course of a season.

As I said you must pitch differently at different times without offensive support. It's not the errors that impact the ERA directly but the what if on am error happening that makes you pitch defensively. The lack of offense makes you pitch defensively. Not just in one situation in the playoffs mind you but every damn start you have to pitch defensively. Why? No support. Just like the defensive plays that don't happen on your behalf. They aren't errors if a player has less range. It just looks like a hit.

There are many factors outside the tunnel vision that go into MLB pitching that impact many stats like an ERA. I have relation that was a good Pro pitcher and trust me when I tell you it's not as simple to just pitch for the Pirates as the Red Sox or Yankees.

@nemeth#5 Can you believe any of this? I have talked baseball for years and I have honestly never heard anything like this.

@88ND Not to discredit your opinion, but I do not think you have played the game enough to understand what it is you are saying. It just point blank does not work like you are suggesting. At least from my vantage point and many others.

I think it is funny that you (@88ND) are so arrogant with how much you claim to know. To throw all these facts in the faces of posters who have actually played ball for years and follow the sport, as if we are some simple minded peasants who know nothing shows what you are all about.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Thank you for making my point...both really.

Lack of offensive production you damn well better believe hurts an ERA over the course of a season.

As I said you must pitch differently at different times without offensive support. It's not the errors that impact the ERA directly but the what if on am error happening that makes you pitch defensively. The lack of offense makes you pitch defensively. Not just in one situation in the playoffs mind you but every damn start you have to pitch defensively. Why? No support. Just like the defensive plays that don't happen on your behalf. They aren't errors if a player has less range. It just looks like a hit.

There are many factors outside the tunnel vision that go into MLB pitching that impact many stats like an ERA. I have relation that was a good Pro pitcher and trust me when I tell you it's not as simple to just pitch for the Pirates as the Red Sox or Yankees.

Bob Gibson. Look him up. Disproves your Theory entirely. "Lack of offensive production you damn well better believe hurts an ERA over the course of a season."

 

[nemeth#5]

@nemeth#5 Can you believe any of this? I have talked baseball for years and I have honestly never heard anything like this.

@88ND Not to discredit your opinion, but I do not think you have played the game enough to understand what it is you are saying. It just point blank does not work like you are suggesting. At least from my vantage point and many others.

I think it is funny that you (@88ND) are so arrogant with how much you claim to know. To throw all these facts in the faces of posters who have actually played ball for years and follow the sport, as if we are some simple minded peasants who know nothing shows what you are all about.

88 is an expert on basically everything.... if you dont believe him, just ask him he will gladly tell you.... all the while not stating any qualifications.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Thank you for making my point...both really.

Lack of offensive production you damn well better believe hurts an ERA over the course of a season.

As I said you must pitch differently at different times without offensive support. It's not the errors that impact the ERA directly but the what if on am error happening that makes you pitch defensively. The lack of offense makes you pitch defensively. Not just in one situation in the playoffs mind you but every damn start you have to pitch defensively. Why? No support. Just like the defensive plays that don't happen on your behalf. They aren't errors if a player has less range. It just looks like a hit.

There are many factors outside the tunnel vision that go into MLB pitching that impact many stats like an ERA. I have relation that was a good Pro pitcher and trust me when I tell you it's not as simple to just pitch for the Pirates as the Red Sox or Yankees.

I want facts for this claim. Lack of offensive production you damn well better believe hurts an ERA over the course of a season.

 

[TOMMY_23]

if Oklahoma loses to LSU that will 3 straight losses in the playoff by Lincoln Riley. can you imagine the lynch mob here if Kelly did the same thing ? doubt any Okie fans will be calling for Rileys head if it happens.

Why? He doesn’t get blown out in the games and has produced TWO Heisman trophy winners that also were #1 picks in the NFL. Good grief.

You can’t get two dopier comments than yours and Catholic.

Kelly gets no respect because of the constant OSU/Clemson/Michigan/Bama beatdowns.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Why? He doesn’t get blown out in the games and has produced TWO Heisman trophy winners that also were #1 picks in the NFL. Good grief.

You can’t get two dopier comments than yours and Catholic.

Kelly gets no respect because of the constant OSU/Clemson/Michigan/Bama beatdowns.

Oklahoma got smacked by Bama last year and blew the UGA game two years ago. You are telling me with this group of posters there would be no backlash? Sorry, I do not think that would be the case.

 

[d1042]

Low IQ need not apply. Literally making yourself out to be very dim trying to plead your case here. Case closed. Move on.

“we will always have stupid”!

 

[Catholicfan95]

“we will always have stupid”!

Thanks to you, yes we will! Keep up your hard work.

 

[TOMMY_23]

Oklahoma got smacked by Bama last year and blew the UGA game two years ago. You are telling me with this group of posters there would be no backlash? Sorry, I do not think that would be the case.

They lost to Bama by 11. ND barely scored a pt. versus Clemson.

Blew the game to Georgia? It’s the playoffs and the competition should be close/intense. Fans here would kill to lose a major bowl game like OU did. ND repeatedly gets blown out.

How are you glossing over the fact Riley produced multiple Heisman trophy winners and #1 overall picks?

He’s not getting bashed because he’s doing an excellent job at OU with rumors the Cowboys are after him.

Kelly hasn’t done anything for ND. No NFL teams or any major programs are after Kelly because he’s not a good coach. OU/Stoops/Riley have so much respect because they’ve earned it with titles, major bowl wins, consistency, and Heisman winners.

Good grief.

 

[Catholicfan95]

They lost to Bama by 11. ND barely scored a pt. versus Clemson.

Blew the game to Georgia? It’s the playoffs and the competition should be close/intense. Fans here would kill to lose a major bowl game like OU did. ND repeatedly gets blown out.

How are you glossing over the fact Riley produced multiple Heisman trophy winners and #1 overall picks?

He’s not getting bashed because he’s doing an excellent job at OU with rumors the Cowboys are after him.

Kelly hasn’t done anything for ND. OU/Stopps/Riley have so much respect because they’ve earned it with titles, major bowl wins, consistency, and Heisman winners.

Good grief.

The 11 point loss is not in anyway indicative of the game. And yes they blew the UGA game, I am guessing you did not watch it? They were up 31-17 at half and lost, if that is not blowing a lead in a game I am not sure what is. I am not at all comparing the two coaches resumes as there is no way to argue, Lincoln is better period he is a great offensive mind and I never discredited those facts. It is more a shot at our fans and posters than a shot at Riley and OU.

 

[88ND]

Bob Gibson. Look him up. Disproves your Theory entirely. "Lack of offensive production you damn well better believe hurts an ERA over the course of a season."

You can certainly nit pick any one person...

Ask yourself one simple question...is it easier pitching for a team with a talented offensive lineup or a team that can't hit the ball even if using a fat bat from the grocery store.

As I said before there are many things that go into baseball stats. Baseball more than any other sport has a game within the game. Over the course of the season those things play a major role.

Ex...
You're playing a good hitting team. Your team can't hit. Can't field very well.
Batter just blooped in a single that a lot of outfielders could have got. It's not an error now is it. Nope. Just a single. Now we have a baserunner and here comes the 1,2,3 hitter in the lineup.
Can I freely go after these hitters as I'd like or must I take an ultra careful defensive pitching approach because...
wait for it...
We generate no runs ourselves to help the cause. Our hitting sucks and we might only score 2 runs if we're lucky. Our defense is limited as well. An error wont hurt the ERA but if I want our team to win it hurts the end goal.
Now myself, the catcher and the pitching coach are calling pitches from tons of data scouting have to be ultra careful with each of these hitters. Let's say we safely navigated through two of them but we conceded a walk. Not intentionally but working safely around the plate. Now we have two on base 1st and 3rd and the next batter gets a legit base hit. The pitcher made a mistake which happens or the hitter was just better in that instance..which happens.
Now we're at runner on 1st and third again with a run scored.

All started because my fielder couldn't get to a simple flare to the outfield most players catch. Wasn't an error. Yet that will impact my ERA.
This above example is one inning of a possible 300 innings and one start of a possible 35 starts over the course of a season.

Have you ever played sport at a high level? You just have to trust me when I tell you it's much much much easier and you perform better playing relaxed. You're better by default playing aggressively with confidence than playing afraid. You're just quicker, faster stronger playing any sport with confidence than playing not to fail.

Pitching defensively all the time sucks.
It's also mentally exhausting over 35 starts knowing every time you dare not make a mistake because you've no help behind you or run support.

 

[nemeth#5]

You can certainly nit pick any one person...
Have you ever played sport at a high level? You just have to trust me when I tell you it's much much much easier and you perform better playing relaxed.

Please tell us the level you played at. Both football, baseball and basketball.

 

[Catholicfan95]

You can certainly nit pick any one person...

Ask yourself one simple question...is it easier pitching for a team with a talented offensive lineup or a team that can't hit the ball even if using a fat bat from the grocery store.

As I said before there are many things that go into baseball stats. Baseball more than any other sport has a game within the game. Over the course of the season those things play a major role.

Ex...
You're playing a good hitting team. Your team can't hit. Can't field very well.
Batter just blooped in a single that a lot of outfielders could have got. It's not an error now is it. Nope. Just a single. Now we have a baserunner and here comes the 1,2,3 hitter in the lineup.
Can I freely go after these hitters as I'd like or must I take an ultra careful defensive pitching approach because...
wait for it...
We generate no runs ourselves to help the cause. Our hitting sucks and we might only score 2 runs if we're lucky.
Now myself, the catcher and the pitching coach are calling pitches from tons of data scouting have to be ultra careful with each of these hitters. Let's say we safely navigated through two of them but we conceded a walk. Not intentionally but working safely around the plate. Now we have two on base 1st and 3rd and the next batter gets a legit base hit. The pitcher made a mistake which happens or the hitter was just better in that instance..which happens.
Now we're at runner on 1st and third again with a run scored.

All started because my fielder couldn't get to a simple flare to the outfield most players catch. Wasn't an error. Yet that will impact my ERA.
This above example is one inning of a possible 300 innings and one start of a possible 35 starts over the course of a season.

Have you ever played sport at a high level? You just have to trust me when I tell you it's much much much easier and you perform better playing relaxed. You're better by default playing aggressively with confidence than playing afraid. You're just quicker, faster stronger playing any sport with confidence than playing not to fail. Sorry to inform you but no one I have ever seen play or coach the game thinks this way.

Pitching defensively all the time sucks.
It's also mentally exhausting over 35 starts knowing every time you dare not make a mistake because you've no help behind you or run support.

I played baseball in college and coached baseball (high school and college) and have coached college football.

Everything you are saying is complete BS that you have pulled out of the nonsense bag to "prove" your point. You have absolutely no evidence to support your theory, and in the time I have spent around baseball and the people who I know who know more baseball than me and you have never ever ever spoken or suggested anything like this. I guess that makes us all inferior to you though right?

Just because you have an opinion that you have formulated in your head "You just have to trust me when I tell you it's much much much easier and you perform better playing relaxed. You're better by default playing aggressively with confidence than playing afraid. You're just quicker, faster stronger playing any sport with confidence than playing not to fail."

You do not know how to make a pitching plan for a game, you do not know how to attack a batters weakness you have never studied film, so do not sit here and tell me that you know more than me in this field because you do not. You are so far off base here that the more you talk the more you show your ignorance to the game.

 

[Catholicfan95]

You can certainly nit pick any one person...

Ask yourself one simple question...is it easier pitching for a team with a talented offensive lineup or a team that can't hit the ball even if using a fat bat from the grocery store.

As I said before there are many things that go into baseball stats. Baseball more than any other sport has a game within the game. Over the course of the season those things play a major role.

Ex...
You're playing a good hitting team. Your team can't hit. Can't field very well.
Batter just blooped in a single that a lot of outfielders could have got. It's not an error now is it. Nope. Just a single. Now we have a baserunner and here comes the 1,2,3 hitter in the lineup.
Can I freely go after these hitters as I'd like or must I take an ultra careful defensive pitching approach because...
wait for it...
We generate no runs ourselves to help the cause. Our hitting sucks and we might only score 2 runs if we're lucky. Our defense is limited as well. An error wont hurt the ERA but if I want our team to win it hurts the end goal.
Now myself, the catcher and the pitching coach are calling pitches from tons of data scouting have to be ultra careful with each of these hitters. Let's say we safely navigated through two of them but we conceded a walk. Not intentionally but working safely around the plate. Now we have two on base 1st and 3rd and the next batter gets a legit base hit. The pitcher made a mistake which happens or the hitter was just better in that instance..which happens.
Now we're at runner on 1st and third again with a run scored.

All started because my fielder couldn't get to a simple flare to the outfield most players catch. Wasn't an error. Yet that will impact my ERA.
This above example is one inning of a possible 300 innings and one start of a possible 35 starts over the course of a season.

Have you ever played sport at a high level? You just have to trust me when I tell you it's much much much easier and you perform better playing relaxed. You're better by default playing aggressively with confidence than playing afraid. You're just quicker, faster stronger playing any sport with confidence than playing not to fail.

Pitching defensively all the time sucks.
It's also mentally exhausting over 35 starts knowing every time you dare not make a mistake because you've no help behind you or run support.

You just literally made up some BS scenario to make it look like you know what you are talking about, but since you are talking to two guys (@nemeth#5 ) who know the game and have played and been around ball for years, you are just coming off as a tool. You were not even in this conversation to begin with and your OP post about the Pirates and Cole was not even close to anything that resembles an intelligent analysis, but please by all means proceed with your nonsense.

 

[Catholicfan95]

You can certainly nit pick any one person...

Ask yourself one simple question...is it easier pitching for a team with a talented offensive lineup or a team that can't hit the ball even if using a fat bat from the grocery store.

As I said before there are many things that go into baseball stats. Baseball more than any other sport has a game within the game. Over the course of the season those things play a major role.

Ex...
You're playing a good hitting team. Your team can't hit. Can't field very well.
Batter just blooped in a single that a lot of outfielders could have got. It's not an error now is it. Nope. Just a single. Now we have a baserunner and here comes the 1,2,3 hitter in the lineup.
Can I freely go after these hitters as I'd like or must I take an ultra careful defensive pitching approach because...
wait for it...
We generate no runs ourselves to help the cause. Our hitting sucks and we might only score 2 runs if we're lucky. Our defense is limited as well. An error wont hurt the ERA but if I want our team to win it hurts the end goal.
Now myself, the catcher and the pitching coach are calling pitches from tons of data scouting have to be ultra careful with each of these hitters. Let's say we safely navigated through two of them but we conceded a walk. Not intentionally but working safely around the plate. Now we have two on base 1st and 3rd and the next batter gets a legit base hit. The pitcher made a mistake which happens or the hitter was just better in that instance..which happens.
Now we're at runner on 1st and third again with a run scored.

All started because my fielder couldn't get to a simple flare to the outfield most players catch. Wasn't an error. Yet that will impact my ERA.
This above example is one inning of a possible 300 innings and one start of a possible 35 starts over the course of a season.

Have you ever played sport at a high level? You just have to trust me when I tell you it's much much much easier and you perform better playing relaxed. You're better by default playing aggressively with confidence than playing afraid. You're just quicker, faster stronger playing any sport with confidence than playing not to fail.

Pitching defensively all the time sucks.
It's also mentally exhausting over 35 starts knowing every time you dare not make a mistake because you've no help behind you or run support.

"

1. 
   The pitcher who has been the best this season with a losing record is the Mariners Felix Hernandez.
   
   King Felix has a record of 8-9 this season despite having an ERA of just 2.71, good for fourth in the AL. Felix is also first in the league in innings pitched with 182.1, tied for second in complete games with two, second in strikeouts with 165, and sixth in WHIP at 1.12.
   
   Felix would be a legitimate Cy Young candidate if he played on a winning team, but instead he is often a forgotten man in Seattle, as he was left off the All-Star team this season.
   
   Felix has been one of the best pitchers in baseball for the league's worst-hitting team. Felix agreed to a contract extension to stay in Seattle before this season, but, right now, he's probably wishing he hadn't.
   "

 

[Catholicfan95]

You can certainly nit pick any one person...

Ask yourself one simple question...is it easier pitching for a team with a talented offensive lineup or a team that can't hit the ball even if using a fat bat from the grocery store.

As I said before there are many things that go into baseball stats. Baseball more than any other sport has a game within the game. Over the course of the season those things play a major role.

Ex...
You're playing a good hitting team. Your team can't hit. Can't field very well.
Batter just blooped in a single that a lot of outfielders could have got. It's not an error now is it. Nope. Just a single. Now we have a baserunner and here comes the 1,2,3 hitter in the lineup.
Can I freely go after these hitters as I'd like or must I take an ultra careful defensive pitching approach because...
wait for it...
We generate no runs ourselves to help the cause. Our hitting sucks and we might only score 2 runs if we're lucky. Our defense is limited as well. An error wont hurt the ERA but if I want our team to win it hurts the end goal.
Now myself, the catcher and the pitching coach are calling pitches from tons of data scouting have to be ultra careful with each of these hitters. Let's say we safely navigated through two of them but we conceded a walk. Not intentionally but working safely around the plate. Now we have two on base 1st and 3rd and the next batter gets a legit base hit. The pitcher made a mistake which happens or the hitter was just better in that instance..which happens.
Now we're at runner on 1st and third again with a run scored.

All started because my fielder couldn't get to a simple flare to the outfield most players catch. Wasn't an error. Yet that will impact my ERA.
This above example is one inning of a possible 300 innings and one start of a possible 35 starts over the course of a season.

Have you ever played sport at a high level? You just have to trust me when I tell you it's much much much easier and you perform better playing relaxed. You're better by default playing aggressively with confidence than playing afraid. You're just quicker, faster stronger playing any sport with confidence than playing not to fail.

Pitching defensively all the time sucks.
It's also mentally exhausting over 35 starts knowing every time you dare not make a mistake because you've no help behind you or run support.

"
Jacob deGrom has the best ERA in the entire National League (1.71) but isn’t getting any run support (3.9). In turn, he has just five wins on the season. By comparison, last year’s NL ERA leader — Clayton Kershaw — finished with 18 wins in 2017.

2018 Stats: 1.71 ERA, 5-5 W-L, 3.9 RS (No.62)"

 

[Catholicfan95]

You can certainly nit pick any one person...

Ask yourself one simple question...is it easier pitching for a team with a talented offensive lineup or a team that can't hit the ball even if using a fat bat from the grocery store.

As I said before there are many things that go into baseball stats. Baseball more than any other sport has a game within the game. Over the course of the season those things play a major role.

Ex...
You're playing a good hitting team. Your team can't hit. Can't field very well.
Batter just blooped in a single that a lot of outfielders could have got. It's not an error now is it. Nope. Just a single. Now we have a baserunner and here comes the 1,2,3 hitter in the lineup.
Can I freely go after these hitters as I'd like or must I take an ultra careful defensive pitching approach because...
wait for it...
We generate no runs ourselves to help the cause. Our hitting sucks and we might only score 2 runs if we're lucky. Our defense is limited as well. An error wont hurt the ERA but if I want our team to win it hurts the end goal.
Now myself, the catcher and the pitching coach are calling pitches from tons of data scouting have to be ultra careful with each of these hitters. Let's say we safely navigated through two of them but we conceded a walk. Not intentionally but working safely around the plate. Now we have two on base 1st and 3rd and the next batter gets a legit base hit. The pitcher made a mistake which happens or the hitter was just better in that instance..which happens.
Now we're at runner on 1st and third again with a run scored.

All started because my fielder couldn't get to a simple flare to the outfield most players catch. Wasn't an error. Yet that will impact my ERA.
This above example is one inning of a possible 300 innings and one start of a possible 35 starts over the course of a season.

Have you ever played sport at a high level? You just have to trust me when I tell you it's much much much easier and you perform better playing relaxed. You're better by default playing aggressively with confidence than playing afraid. You're just quicker, faster stronger playing any sport with confidence than playing not to fail.

Pitching defensively all the time sucks.
It's also mentally exhausting over 35 starts knowing every time you dare not make a mistake because you've no help behind you or run support.

"Although he’s only pitched in nine games this year, Gallardo is getting tons of run support. With that said, his ERA is over 7.00 but his record (4-1) looks excellent. He doesn’t qualify for league leaders but his run support average (8.4) would be the best in the league, by far, had he qualified."

Not indicative of his run support. No correlation with his ERA

 

[Catholicfan95]

You can certainly nit pick any one person...

Ask yourself one simple question...is it easier pitching for a team with a talented offensive lineup or a team that can't hit the ball even if using a fat bat from the grocery store.

As I said before there are many things that go into baseball stats. Baseball more than any other sport has a game within the game. Over the course of the season those things play a major role.

Ex...
You're playing a good hitting team. Your team can't hit. Can't field very well.
Batter just blooped in a single that a lot of outfielders could have got. It's not an error now is it. Nope. Just a single. Now we have a baserunner and here comes the 1,2,3 hitter in the lineup.
Can I freely go after these hitters as I'd like or must I take an ultra careful defensive pitching approach because...
wait for it...
We generate no runs ourselves to help the cause. Our hitting sucks and we might only score 2 runs if we're lucky. Our defense is limited as well. An error wont hurt the ERA but if I want our team to win it hurts the end goal.
Now myself, the catcher and the pitching coach are calling pitches from tons of data scouting have to be ultra careful with each of these hitters. Let's say we safely navigated through two of them but we conceded a walk. Not intentionally but working safely around the plate. Now we have two on base 1st and 3rd and the next batter gets a legit base hit. The pitcher made a mistake which happens or the hitter was just better in that instance..which happens.
Now we're at runner on 1st and third again with a run scored.

All started because my fielder couldn't get to a simple flare to the outfield most players catch. Wasn't an error. Yet that will impact my ERA.
This above example is one inning of a possible 300 innings and one start of a possible 35 starts over the course of a season.

Have you ever played sport at a high level? You just have to trust me when I tell you it's much much much easier and you perform better playing relaxed. You're better by default playing aggressively with confidence than playing afraid. You're just quicker, faster stronger playing any sport with confidence than playing not to fail.

Pitching defensively all the time sucks.
It's also mentally exhausting over 35 starts knowing every time you dare not make a mistake because you've no help behind you or run support.

MLB Run Support https://www.oddsshark.com/mlb/pitcher-run-support

 

[Catholicfan95]

You can certainly nit pick any one person...

Ask yourself one simple question...is it easier pitching for a team with a talented offensive lineup or a team that can't hit the ball even if using a fat bat from the grocery store.

As I said before there are many things that go into baseball stats. Baseball more than any other sport has a game within the game. Over the course of the season those things play a major role.

Ex...
You're playing a good hitting team. Your team can't hit. Can't field very well.
Batter just blooped in a single that a lot of outfielders could have got. It's not an error now is it. Nope. Just a single. Now we have a baserunner and here comes the 1,2,3 hitter in the lineup.
Can I freely go after these hitters as I'd like or must I take an ultra careful defensive pitching approach because...
wait for it...
We generate no runs ourselves to help the cause. Our hitting sucks and we might only score 2 runs if we're lucky. Our defense is limited as well. An error wont hurt the ERA but if I want our team to win it hurts the end goal.
Now myself, the catcher and the pitching coach are calling pitches from tons of data scouting have to be ultra careful with each of these hitters. Let's say we safely navigated through two of them but we conceded a walk. Not intentionally but working safely around the plate. Now we have two on base 1st and 3rd and the next batter gets a legit base hit. The pitcher made a mistake which happens or the hitter was just better in that instance..which happens.
Now we're at runner on 1st and third again with a run scored.

All started because my fielder couldn't get to a simple flare to the outfield most players catch. Wasn't an error. Yet that will impact my ERA.
This above example is one inning of a possible 300 innings and one start of a possible 35 starts over the course of a season.

Have you ever played sport at a high level? You just have to trust me when I tell you it's much much much easier and you perform better playing relaxed. You're better by default playing aggressively with confidence than playing afraid. You're just quicker, faster stronger playing any sport with confidence than playing not to fail.

Pitching defensively all the time sucks.
It's also mentally exhausting over 35 starts knowing every time you dare not make a mistake because you've no help behind you or run support.

These are facts that literally go against everything you just tried explaining. Have a good rest in the grave I have buried you in.

Cheers!

 

[88ND]

The 11 point loss is not in anyway indicative of the game. And yes they blew the UGA game, I am guessing you did not watch it? They were up 31-17 at half and lost, if that is not blowing a lead in a game I am not sure what is. I am not at all comparing the two coaches resumes as there is no way to argue, Lincoln is better period he is a great offensive mind and I never discredited those facts. It is more a shot at our fans and posters than a shot at Riley and OU.

They lost to Bama by 11. ND barely scored a pt. versus Clemson.

Blew the game to Georgia? It’s the playoffs and the competition should be close/intense. Fans here would kill to lose a major bowl game like OU did. ND repeatedly gets blown out.

How are you glossing over the fact Riley produced multiple Heisman trophy winners and #1 overall picks?

He’s not getting bashed because he’s doing an excellent job at OU with rumors the Cowboys are after him.

Kelly hasn’t done anything for ND. No NFL teams or any major programs are after Kelly because he’s not a good coach. OU/Stoops/Riley have so much respect because they’ve earned it with titles, major bowl wins, consistency, and Heisman winners.

Good grief.

Right said Tommy.

First of all OU hasn't lost three straight yet.
They lost two in a row but performed eons better than BK ever has.

You talk about a lynch mob? What lynch mob? I'd be elated if we were actually competitive in a major bowl/ playoff.
I'd be on the BK train saying we're really close and kt's only a matter of time.
The problem is nobody in the reality world can say BK is close.
You must crawl before you can walk and unfortunately we're still on our back just starting to roll over.
In other words we can't beat an elite on the elite stage until we're competitive with an elite.

That's the BK problem. Twice he's made a playoff/title game and some could argue with a fortunate schedule. We had some luck in 2012 getting there and literally had no tough competition in 2018.

Then once there what did we do? Get trounced to epic proportions. The third major post season game against Ohio State...what happened? We got steamrolled in that too. The score was in no way indicative of the game.

A lot of fans want nothing more than BK to be successful but after a decade the results speak for themselves.
He's beating teams he should beat now more consistently but until we beat a top 5 in any game or be competitive in a major bowl against a solid team it's BK business as usual. Be close...kind of...yet many miles away.

 

[amazingreis]

Your discretion of those who are trolling here is far superior than mine. I am not here to report anyone at all, I feel out of place doing so. The last thing I want to do is discourage people from coming onto the board and having a different opinion than the majority.

Yeah right....

 

[Catholicfan95]

Yeah right....

Dude, seriously how old are you? You are acting like a child. Know when to stop.

 

[88ND]

These are facts that literally go against everything you just tried explaining. Have a good rest in the grave I have buried you in.

Cheers!

You can pick out whatever stat from above the drop ceiling all you want...

You've yet to answer one simple question.

Is it easier to pitch for the Yankees, Red Sox or any other decent offensive team or a team that can't buy but 2 runs in a lot of games.

It's one simple question.

 

[88ND]

I played baseball in college and coached baseball (high school and college) and have coached college football.

Everything you are saying is complete BS that you have pulled out of the nonsense bag to "prove" your point. You have absolutely no evidence to support your theory, and in the time I have spent around baseball and the people who I know who know more baseball than me and you have never ever ever spoken or suggested anything like this. I guess that makes us all inferior to you though right?

Just because you have an opinion that you have formulated in your head "You just have to trust me when I tell you it's much much much easier and you perform better playing relaxed. You're better by default playing aggressively with confidence than playing afraid. You're just quicker, faster stronger playing any sport with confidence than playing not to fail."

You do not know how to make a pitching plan for a game, you do not know how to attack a batters weakness you have never studied film, so do not sit here and tell me that you know more than me in this field because you do not. You are so far off base here that the more you talk the more you show your ignorance to the game.

The difference is you love fantasy...I'm in the real world.
Just like with football. You're in a fantasy world.....how was it you said????
we are heading into the golden age of Notre Dame....yep right up until kickoff in Ann Arbor.

 

[88ND]

Your discretion of those who are trolling here is far superior than mine. I am not here to report anyone at all, I feel out of place doing so. The last thing I want to do is discourage people from coming onto the board and having a different opinion than the majority.

Now that's rich.

When an opinion differs from yours you go into full blown name calling and go out of your mind.

I've been here a long time and never once called anyone a malicious name. Not ever once.

See I REALLY enjoy the differing opinions and debate and believe this or not it can actually happen without calling someone a name.

You should try it sometime.

 

[Catholicfan95]

You can pick out whatever stat from above the drop ceiling all you want...

You've yet to answer one simple question.

Is it easier to pitch for the Yankees, Red Sox or any other decent offensive team or a team that can't buy but 2 runs in a lot of games.

It's one simple question.

Honestly it really does not matter who you pitch for, it in no way has any correlation to ERA. I think if you would take the time out of your day to look at these stats you would see that you are clearly wrong. I like you 88, you are great to debate with but you are literally dismissing facts that disprove your suggestion that high run support results in lower ERA. I think you are so set on being right that it is clouding your judgement here.

The answer to your question is No and there is 100 years of baseball data to prove that answer is right. If you want to ignore facts for the sake of being right.

Also, "The difference is you love fantasy...I'm in the real world.
Just like with football. You're in a fantasy world.....how was it you said????
we are heading into the golden age of Notre Dame....yep right up until kickoff in Ann Arbor." To turn the conversation into this is just completely ridiculous dude. To be clear a golden age is an era which can be a period of time of 5-10 years. When it is all said and done and ND has strung together 5-6 10 plus winning seasons that will provide better proof for what I am saying. It is my opinion that I think we have the ability to do that, it does not just happen over night.

It is one thing to be an abysmal loser in an argument which you have proven you are in this topic, it is a whole other bag to just completely blow off facts someone is providing to prove you wrong, then to bring up something that I said and imply that I live in a "fantasy land" shows that you are not interested in admitting when you are wrong.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Now that's rich.

When an opinion differs from yours you go into full blown name calling and go out of your mind.

I've been here a long time and never once called anyone a malicious name. Not ever once.

See I REALLY enjoy the differing opinions and debate and believe this or not it can actually happen without calling someone a name.

You should try it sometime.

"When an opinion differs from yours you go into full blown name calling and go out of your mind." Every time? Or is it when someone is hiding behind a screen saying things and acting pompous that I chose to call them what they are acting like. I really do not think anyone here has any issues with the way I post.

Again, deflecting the conversation because that post had zero to do with you.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Now that's rich.

When an opinion differs from yours you go into full blown name calling and go out of your mind.

I've been here a long time and never once called anyone a malicious name. Not ever once.

See I REALLY enjoy the differing opinions and debate and believe this or not it can actually happen without calling someone a name.

You should try it sometime.

Maybe you should look at the way I debate with others, maybe people call you names for their own reasons?

 

[amazingreis]

Now that's rich.

When an opinion differs from yours you go into full blown name calling and go out of your mind.

I've been here a long time and never once called anyone a malicious name. Not ever once.

See I REALLY enjoy the differing opinions and debate and believe this or not it can actually happen without calling someone a name.

You should try it sometime.

Exactly what I’ve been saying!
If you disagree with him you will be shouted down and be called names.
And he says I’m acting like a child.
He should be black listed.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Exactly what I’ve been saying!
If you disagree with him you will be shouted down and be called names.
He should be black listed.

And how many other posters have called you names? I have seen plenty.

I apologize @amazingreis for calling you a name, I was completely out of line to take it to that level and I hope that I did not offend you in anyway. It was wrong of me to flat out insult you like I did and there is no excuse for the way I behaved. I welcome any different opinion and any debate, I should not have been as cutthroat, I am not like that and I let the moment get the best of me.

Bringing a new perspective to the board is always a good thing and in that moment I was not taking into consideration that your opinion is just as valued on this board as mine is. I hope you continue to bring a different perspective than I do, it is always good to be challenged in an appropriate way.

Again, my sincerest apologies that post is not a reflection of what I am really about.

 

[Catholicfan95]

You can pick out whatever stat from above the drop ceiling all you want...

You've yet to answer one simple question.

Is it easier to pitch for the Yankees, Red Sox or any other decent offensive team or a team that can't buy but 2 runs in a lot of games.

It's one simple question.

And if you noticed we were having an great debate going back and forth until you jumped in on a conversation and claimed to be right about something and tell me and another poster we know "little about baseball" and challenged me to provide detail as to what level of ball I played. I provided facts in a pleasant manner and you continued to throw back handed comments at me such as "Facts from the drop ceiling" implying the facts are false or made up. I do not see how you can sit here and just act like you are this perfect example of a poster when you clearly are not. Moving on, I dismantled you theory that "More run support would result in lower ERA" with literal facts which you have dismissed. Then you turned the conversation into an attack on me and how I post. The synopsis of this whole thread is that you came in a found a way to wreck a perfectly fine conversation with acting the way you did, I really do not see how every thread you posts on can turn into this dramatic play, but that is what you do. You are an instigator and if you were really interested in having a debate then you would admit that I literally proved you wrong and that the way you brought up non related subjects was a buschleague play that had nothing to do with our conversation. So, I find it wrong to paint me the bad guy here.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Can we all just get along?

 

[Clonewithasigh]

if Oklahoma loses to LSU that will 3 straight losses in the playoff by Lincoln Riley. can you imagine the lynch mob here if Kelly did the same thing ? doubt any Okie fans will be calling for Rileys head if it happens.

You wish Kelly had that opportunity

 

[amazingreis]

These are facts that literally go against everything you just tried explaining. Have a good rest in the grave I have buried you in.

Cheers!

What a pompous statement from the moral and intellectual authority.

 

[Catholicfan95]

What a pompous statement from the moral and intellectual authority.

I know! How could he deny the facts! Sad.

 

[IrishBlessings]

Well stated - solid points and pretty spot on. Original post was not bad though. BK obviously has been better than all other coaches since Holtz -

What’s amazing though is how so
Many ND fans have “settled”’. They feel no coach better than a BK would want or take the ND job.

I was a big BK detractor - The difference now is that I don’t live and die ND football any more - I m just riding out the BK tenure and hope they can hire a new coach even better than BK - who will not only have 10 plus win seasons - but maybe win a big bowl game someday

This response was intended to respond to 88’s long BK synopsis -

As stated though original post was good too - I

I'm not saying Dabo is a dunsky whatsoever. He's got a player's personality as evidence from the recruits he's getting. His D coordinator is a psycho and I sure wish we could have him....
He knows the in and out of being successful at the highest of stages.

The JoePa reference is this...
Getting all players to collectively play as a team. Don't need star players when the machine is greater than it's parts.
Paterno had a lot of great teams yet only one Heisman winner in Capaletti. He didn't have many finalists either.
Those two facts don't mean everything but considering the success Paterno had you would certainly think he would've had more than 1 winner and many finalists along the way.

His teams never beat themselves and were always outstanding tacklers. The very best tackling team in the land. Always. Fundamentally sound. When you beat Penn State you really had to beat them. They didn't give you the win. His players played extremely hard.

Can you name some of Baylor's players prior to their Big 12 title game? Yet there they were taking OU to the brink and shoulda coulda beat them both times.
He had Tenple playing harder than I can remember. Remember when the Tenple player made a mistake that cost them a big penalty against us...he had that player doing pushups on the sideline during the game.
Some might chuckle at that but the point was WE is greater than YOU and WE need to play TOGETHER and not beat ourselves.

I don't think he's leaving Baylor until he gets a chance at Penn State. I believe that's his dream destination. He's an alumnus of Penn State and I believe really wants to be coaching in happy valley.

Actually when first said the Joe Pa comparison to Rhule (sp?) I was a tad skeptical - but the way you break it down - the Baylor and his Temple teams eerily similar to a Joe Pa Penn St team. Not a lot of superstar 5 and 4 star recruits - etc - but Baylor and Temple played and play disciplined and sound - very sound - would love to have Rhule

 

[IrishBlessings]

This response was intended to respond to 88’s long BK synopsis -

As stated though original post was good too - I


Actually when first said the Joe Pa comparison to Rhule (sp?) I was a tad skeptical - but the way you break it down - the Baylor and his Temple teams eerily similar to a Joe Pa Penn St team. Not a lot of superstar 5 and 4 star recruits - etc - but Baylor and Temple played and play disciplined and sound - very sound - would love to have Rhule

Accidentally hit “post” too early ... to finish I was gonna say - “would love to have Rhule coach at ND someday”!

 

[amazingreis]

Accidentally hit “post” too early ... to finish I was gonna say - “would love to have Rhule coach at ND someday”!

As in “someday”, how about tomorrow?
We’ve seen BK’s ceiling. Thank you for a nice stint; give someone else a chance to take it to the next level.

 

[NDinNJ]

We all know how this song and dance goes. Back and forth arguments with these posters that claim to be atop the mountain of perspective and that we, the loyal optimistic Notre Dame fans are "delusional".
Now, there is a difference between a realists and a troll and it all comes down to what the message of the post is. A realist message (one who is actually a fan of ND) will be a challenge, an example would be us winning big games. This is a valid argument and we all have been discussing it in length this year, so I won't go into detail. However, a realist (one who is a true ND fan) will remain optimistic while challenging the program and also acknowledge accomplishments such as a 10 win season (if you don't think 10 wins is an accomplishment then we are really far apart). The troll on the other hand will discredit accomplishments, bring up ND tradition as a way to dismantle the current state of ND, stay negative, claim themselves as the most loyal of fans and when challenged on that fact they will have no response.

Here are the facts. We won 10 games 3 years in a row for the first time since 91-93. We have had more 10 win seasons under BK than any other coach since Lou. Regardless of those who try to claim NDs schedule and wins are against bad competition, we are 42-17 in a 5 year span, and had a 4-8 season in that same time frame. Is it NDs fault that SC and Stanford are down? Or that nearly every ACC team we have played since signing this deal has been middle of the road or worse? Didn't ND schedule Home and Homes with UGA, UM and OSU in the next 3/4 years? That to me shows that ND is at least trying to schedule top tier teams. Everyone cracks ND for having a bad schedule but will gloss over OSU, Bama and Clemson's. Notre Dame has a cyclical schedule now, some years will be very good and other years will be middle of the road. News flash, it happens and the key is you have to take advantage of those middle of the road years. (example Michigan State making the playoff)

Here's the solution to all of this, winning. No one here is happy losing games, and none of our kids or coaches are. I will say that I saw a high majority of posters here say if we can manage to win 10 they'd be thrilled, then have posted several times complaining since. Either you are with us all the way or your just not one of us, period. I'm thrilled with 10 wins, but I'm also pissed about UM and disappointed with UGA, can those three feelings not co-exist? I'm thrilled to death with BKs 10 years here and I think he's one of the top 5/8 coaches in America, but I also think he fails at times, can those things not co-exist? Does that mean that I have lowered my standards? I think it means that we were one coach away from Nebraska and now we are a top 10-15 program on a yearly basis and that has not been the case in 30 years, so how is that possibly status quo?

Perspective is everything and it is clear that the perspective with most of you "realists" is just down right negative, and guess what no one cares! How can you be negative about what is going on right now?

Cheers, Go Irish!

Great post, and I agree with most of it. I can accept and be happy about 10-2 seasons, but my biggest issue is the blowout losses. I believe ND has the talent to beat most of the top teams. There was no reason for ND to lose the way they did vs UM, or to Miami 2 years ago. To me that just shows a lack of preparedness and an inability to motivate from the coaching staff. I’m not expecting perfection year in and year out, but the expectation should be that they are competitive in every game, and the staff has the team prepared and motivated.

Had they lost to UM by 4 or 7, sure we would have been disappointed, but we could have looked past it as a tough loss to a rival on the road. Those blowout losses simply make me lose confidence in the coaching staff that they can get to the next level.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll post it here now. I hope I’m proven wrong and that BK can take the program to that next level. I would eat crow all day pong for that to happen.