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OT: Something has to change

Having guide lines are a start, but the time frame you've suggest it isn't.
Why would someone who has served in the military and is well-versed in a firearm have to wait a long period of time to own something that he has used for the government?
Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that anyone that serves and is trained in the military would be considered at the highest level unless otherwise determined during service?
 
What is crazy is that everyone is attacked the 'AR-15' without even understanding what it is.... you hear that it is an 'Assault Rifle' but what is an assault rifle? the AR doesn't stand for assault rifle either..... also, the most popular caliber that the AR shoots (.223/5.56) is not that deadly of a bullet.... which is why there are a lot of wounded victims.... A common shotgun would be more deadly in my opinion....

No it's not an assault rifle...but it has a documented history of being the weapon of choice in Mass shootings against Americans.
 
Sounds like this could have been prevented if law enforcement would have done their job. That's not me talking but news reports that are coming out over the last few days. We already have laws in place but law enforcement, DAs, and AGs need to do their jobs and enforce those laws. The teachers were remarkable in a stressful and dangerous situation. God bless them.
 
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As a responsible gun owner I have no issues with restrictions on what guns can be purchased until you have established yourself as a responsible gun owner. There is no reason for a 19 yr old to be able to buy this gun legally. There is no background check that will derive a young persons willingness to commit atrocities. I'm for creating a tiered system where guns are categorized and a person must establish the self as a good firearm owner in order to purchase certain guns.

That sounds like the literacy tests imposed so people (blacks) could establish themselves as a responsible voter.
 
No it's not an assault rifle...but it has a documented history of being the weapon of choice in Mass shootings against Americans.
You are absolutely correct when it comes to a shotgun.....it’s very simple math but let’s use a hunting shotgun
3 shells (per most states hunting laws)
Double OT Buckshot= 9 projectiles (if you don’t know what they are picture civil war musket balls)

27 bullets with pulling the trigger 3 times

But what if there was 30 round shotguns and there are

So technically 30 rounds with a AR=30 rounds
30 rounds with a shotgun=270 rounds

We need to focus on our kids and protecting them from bad people rather than worrrying about a machine
 
That sounds like the literacy tests imposed so people (blacks) could establish themselves as a responsible voter.
I was wondering how long it would take before the race card was played. Thirty-nine domestic calls answered by the police, a threatening comment left on a youtube comment section, dismissed from school, school warned about the shooter wearing a backpack, students well aware of his history and threats. That's a clear window into someone who should have never qualified for any type of firearm. That's a test that this kid would and should have flunked.
 
I'm not convinced from what I read and heard that the shooter was mentally ill. He sounds just plain evil to me. It was premeditated, calculated, and he devised an escape plan. He also is more than aware of what he did and his attorney says he has regret at what he did. I'll let the experts figure this guy out but on the surface he looks as though he's just plain evil. "They" also need to take a long hard look at law enforcement dealing with the guy. Thirty nine domestic distress calls from his home and that didn't raise any red flags? Also, the threatening youtube entry he made was reported to the Feds and it ended there. I would suggest schools install a hard entry system supported by armed qualified off duty or retired military/ police officers. Their duty would not be to stop fights in the cafeteria but to supervise the entry and egress of adults and students. The school would no longer be a soft target.
Mental illness does not preclude one from being able to premeditate or calculate. Serial killers are notorious for those qualities.
 
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Infringing on the 2nd admenment is not the answer. The reason it was put there by our founding fathers was so citizens could stand up and fight back against a overseeing and power hungry federal government. At that time it was the king of England. That is why the NRA exists and will always exist. It’s scary how similar and different the past is these days when it comes to the government.

I'm sure that our military is terrified of you and your gun.

We've already determined that some weapons do not have sufficient utility to be available to the public when compared to the harm they may cause.
 
I believe the PC culture of "mind your own business/don't offend someone" keeps people from speaking up when they see/hear someone acting oddly. I also believe if we want to start blaming guns, then TV, movies, games, music, etc all get to aid in the blame as well. In fact, they may be more to blame since they have had their hand in creating the current culture we live in. The gun didn't create the culture. The gun didn't create mindsets. It's a tool.
 
I'm sure that our military is terrified of you and your gun.

We've already determined that some weapons do not have sufficient utility to be available to the public when compared to the harm they may cause.
I’m sure their not but that gets down to what kind of person you are

I will die on my feet before I live on my knees....I can see by your comment that your knees are good and bruised already.....
 
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Mental illness does not preclude one from being able to premeditate or calculate. Serial killers are notorious for those qualities.
That's just it. I'm not any type of expert in this field. That's why I would leave it up to the professionals to make that determination. I seem to be the only one in this discussion who is willing to put the blame solely on the shooter who actually pulled the trigger. A trigger that can't pull itself, and, I'm really concerned about these law enforcement stories that I have been hearing today and yesterday. I don't know. We all have opinions and no one wants this to happen.
 
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I’m sure their not but that gets down to what kind of person you are

I will die on my feet before I live on my knees....I can see by your comment that your knees are good and bruised already.....

I feel I can defend myself with something less than an AR-15, thank you very much.
 
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I feel I can defend myself with something less than an AR-15, thank you very much.
I’m going to apologize for my comment before I think this is a touchy subject for all of us and for many different reasons. The only way a solution will ever come is if I understand your reason, you understand mine and we meet in the middle to prevent any children or family’s being hurt by bad people. How we have a sit down as a country to figure that out is the real difficult part. One thing is for sure it’s going to take give and take on both sides
 
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I'm sure that our military is terrified of you and your gun.

We've already determined that some weapons do not have sufficient utility to be available to the public when compared to the harm they may cause.

The most popular gun for citizens has always been the standard weapon used by the military at the time. If there had been school house shootings in 19th Century some people would question the suitability of the Springfield rifle.
 
I think that the problem is much, much, deeper than gun control or other types of laws that politicians
on both side of the isle may or may not propose ?
God has been going out of our society for decades. The traditional family is deteriorating. Schools,
Even Catholic schools , are becoming more secular in the name of “ tolerance “ !
“ Entertainment “ is becoming so vile and violent that I have stopped attending movies.
Vicious games are now commonplace. Social media has both enabled electronic communications, but stifled social interpersonal Communications.
I don’t have a clue where we begin to cleanse the system, but our society needs a lot more than gun control and political postering, and a lot less CYA by our Federal, State, and Local authorities?
In a week or so the news will move on, until the next mass murder, and then the “Debate”
and sorrow will start all over again.
 
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I'm a conservative republican for common sense gun laws. Something has to be done, children are dying
What does that even mean? Please tell us what a common sense gun law is. That's sounds like politician speak who really don't have any answers so they default to that talking point.
 
I think that the problem is much, much, deeper than gun control or other types of laws that politicians
on both side of the isle may or may not propose ?
God has been going out of our society for decades. The traditional family is deteriorating. Schools,
Even Catholic schools , are becoming more secular in the name of “ tolerance “ !
“ Entertainment “ is becoming so vile and violent that I have stopped attending movies.
Vicious games are now commonplace. Social media has both enabled electronic communications, but stifled social interpersonal Communications.
I don’t have a clue where we begin to cleanse the system, but our society needs a lot more than gun control and political postering, and a lot less CYA by our Federal, State, and Local authorities?
In a week or so the news will move on, until the next mass murder, and then the “Debate”
and sorrow will start all over again.
So well put hope you read one of my first post on this matter
 
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What does that even mean? Please tell us what a common sense gun law is. That's sounds like politician speak who really don't have any answers so they default to that talking point.
To be honest Toby I don't even know what the correct response would be. I'm not a politician. Honestly I don't think a 19 year old should have access to an AR. I only own a shotgun for home defense because I don't live in the nicest part of town. Pistols/ shotguns and one per family sounds very reasonable. But how do you make that happen?
 
Children are dying in car crashes and by abortion at much higher rates than gun crimes . Are you advocating for them also?
I am anti abortion. I view point changed after the Vegas massacre. I voted for trump by the way, I'm not afraid to admit it. But this shooting will be forgotten about in a month because something crazy will happen again (another school shooting, terrorist arrack, etc.) I just don't see why a 19 year old should have an AR15...
 
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Children are dying in car crashes and by abortion at much higher rates than gun crimes . Are you advocating for them also?
Did a teenager just go out and kill 19 people via car accident or abortion?
This type of argument is simply a distraction that generally detracts from meaningful discussion when a situation highlights an area that the speaker doesn't want to address. Which btw is exactly what I expect the government to do.
As a nation beset with domestic "Christian" terrorists over recent weeks why can people not remove bias and simply discuss what is best for citizens in light of children being targeted? It needs to happen not deflect to different topics.
 
To be honest Toby I don't even know what the correct response would be. I'm not a politician. Honestly I don't think a 19 year old should have access to an AR. I only own a shotgun for home defense because I don't live in the nicest part of town. Pistols/ shotguns and one per family sounds very reasonable. But how do you make that happen?
You don't make it happen until you take the evil and bad intent out of people. Whether it's mental illness, just pure evil, or prescripted drugs, the bad intentions have to be gone because it's the bad intent by bad people pulling the trigger. What you think is reasonable may not be reasonable to the guy in Montana or Indiana. And, I sure as hell don't want politicians making that decision because these people are experts at nothing more than getting elected. I have heard so many people blaming the NRA, the president, the gun lobbyists, the gun manufacturers but I seem to be alone here blaming the actual shooter with law enforcement not far behind apparently. I just stopped by this thread not to debate, but to blame the shooter and bring attention to those hero teachers who saved lives.
 
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Did a teenager just go out and kill 19 people via car accident or abortion?
This type of argument is simply a distraction that generally detracts from meaningful discussion when a situation highlights an area that the speaker doesn't want to address. Which btw is exactly what I expect the government to do.
As a nation beset with domestic "Christian" terrorists over recent weeks why can people not remove bias and simply discuss what is best for citizens in light of children being targeted? It needs to happen not deflect to different topics.
I just asking, how do you know all these shooters are Christians? I'm just asking again, do you have a bias against Christians that you would roll that out?
 
Did a teenager just go out and kill 19 people via car accident or abortion?
This type of argument is simply a distraction that generally detracts from meaningful discussion when a situation highlights an area that the speaker doesn't want to address. Which btw is exactly what I expect the government to do.
As a nation beset with domestic "Christian" terrorists over recent weeks why can people not remove bias and simply discuss what is best for citizens in light of children being targeted? It needs to happen not deflect to different topics.

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
 
Exactly. Which is why the "we have guns to fend off our government" is silly.
You would be wrong to believe every member of our Armed Forces would be participating with a government that a nation is rising up against.
It is a volunteer Amed Forces with members from all over the country who signed up to defend the nation not the government
 
Children are dying in car crashes and by abortion at much higher rates than gun crimes . Are you advocating for them also?
This is your opinion and not fact and even worse a deflective comment to discuss the real issue at hand. So you don't care a 18-19 year old kid can purchase 4-5 guns, but can't purchase 4-5 beers?
 
It unfortunate that the history of the Second Amendment had been revised and reduced to an overly simplified ideological talking point. The only crime specifically defined in the constitution is treason. Surely the Second Amendment wasn't enacted just so mobs of people could commit treason by engaging in armed rebellion against the federal goverment.

The history is more complex. Even our Supreme Court (in a Justice Scalia opinion) has recognized the unclear history surrounding the drafting of the Second Amendment. The Court has also recognized that the Second Amendment is neither absolute nor unlimited.

So its okay to have a discussion about limiting the right to own certain types of arms. But it won't happen because the fundamental obstacle is the difference of opinion over whether limiting gun ownership would make a difference on the problem.
 
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