Notre Dame will never win the Natty if there is a playoff involved

[Hurricane Willy]

I'm a new poster to this forum, but have several observations after being on here for a few weeks.

The difference between a 4-8 2016 ND team and a 12-0 2018 ND team is insignificant and within the margin of error of average for the team. It all comes down to schedule. ND typically plays roughly the same name brand of teams each year, but sometimes those teams are good, and sometimes not. In 2018 final AP poll, Michigan was the highest ranked regular season opponent at 14. In 2016, USC and Stanford were ranked higher than that. ND tends to be either slightly better or slightly worse than opponents, and if the highest ranked opponent is 13, there is a good enough chance that they can go undefeated with a little luck. On the flip slide there is also just as good of a chance they can go 4-8 by being slightly worse than opponents. This is the conference conundrum, where typically you play 1-4 really good teams, and a lot of bad teams, so you are more likely to by 9-3 every year, vs the independent schedule of team all ranked 15 - 30. The variability of ND W/L is going to be higher.

Because you can go 12-0 without being a legit top 5 program (regardless of what the rankings say) and make the playoffs, there is little chance you can beat 2 very good teams to win the Natty. Any given Saturday, you can win one, but the odds are significantly stacked against you to win 2 in a row. With the old BCS format, you could have maybe lucked into a championship with a good match up, or an off day for the opponent, but not with the playoff. I don't see this changing under BK and the current structure. Some of this comes down to lack of conference affiliation. If in 2018 ND had to play Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, or Oklahoma in a conference championship game, odds are they would have lost and there would be no conversation about ND being overrated in another major bowl game blowout. That conference championship game is essentially a playoff game only in the fact that the loser is out. They would be like Georgia or Texas, a good team who is not quite at the same level as the playoff teams. It is a disservice to the team to let them think they can compete with the elite teams in the country because of a 12-0 record.

The 27 point loss to Clemson compared to Alabama's 28 point loss does not mean that ND is on the same level as Alabama. Clemson played a mediocre game against ND, and a perfect game against Alabama. Clemson spent 4 weeks preparing for Alabama, and only 1 week on ND. Clemson's focus coming into every season now is how to beat Alabama, unconcerned about any other teams they could face. It is a 1v1 championship rivalry that Clemson has figured out how to play. ND is not at this level. ND's loss to Clemson did not come down to lack of PI calls, or Love getting hurt, or momentum killed because of overturned calls. It was because Clemson has better talent and the coaching staff is superior. I saw a lot of overenthusiastic ND fans talking about how Clemson would be crushed because they almost lost to Syracuse, or they gave of 500 yards passing to Bentley, but none of that matter in team vs team match ups. Clemson is a better team than ND, and it doesn't help the ND case to push the narrative that they could beat Clemson.

I have seen several posts that say ND could win if they were allowed to recruit 5 star talent like Lawrence or Ross. This is nonsense. If either of these kids wanted to go to ND, they would be playing there today. It has been suggested that if ND had Trevor Lawrence and Clemson had Book, that ND with Lawrence would have beat Clemson. That is reasonably plausible if the switch had happened in Dec. If the switch had happened in August, Clemson would still have won, because of superior coaching, and a better battle between Book and Kelly Bryant. Not sure Book would have even been on the field.

In order to be considered elite, ND is going to need to beat some SEC teams or Clemson. Beating Michigan does nothing for reputation. 2 great opportunities in the next 2 years. At Georgia, and Clemson at home. ND has got to win 1 of these 2 to take the next step. The thing about becoming elite is it doesn't matter who you lose to, it matter who you beat, and ND hasn't beat an elite team in a very long time.

 

[twalsh]

Clemson spent 4 weeks preparing for Alabama, and only 1 week on ND.

That was made up by some guy in the media, and has been debunked as fake news by both players and coaches from Clemson.

 

[mrwigglesby21]

Alabama finished the season playing Georgia, Oklahoma and Clemson. It literally doesnt get tougher than that.

Clemson finished with Pitt and Notre Dame. They were fresh for Bama. Pitt and ND is a joke compared to what Alabama had to go through.

We are alot further away from elite status than folks think. We have a nice program now, that's it.

Had ND scheduled Georgia, Oklahoma and Clemson as their last three games they would be outscored 120 - 21.

We get elite OL, that's it. And they disappear in big games. We had two top 10 NFL draft picks on the left side of the line and couldn't run for shit vs Georgia. Soft ass coaching.

We need more toxic masculinity, not Gilette softies that want to spoon with upperclassmen and travel Europe. We need guys that want to win and knock someone's head off, like Alohi G., and Drue T. But we need that attitude in athletes with measurables for the NFL, not tweeners that should be playing at Iowa.

Nice post OP.

 

[Toby Smart]

I think Irish fans fully understand how our program compares to the super elite. I had big concerns that they couldn't put away USC. I was told there was no connection between that close call and the Cotton Bowl. And the beat goes on.

 

[irontooth123]

I'm a new poster to this forum, but have several observations after being on here for a few weeks.

The difference between a 4-8 2016 ND team and a 12-0 2018 ND team is insignificant and within the margin of error of average for the team. It all comes down to schedule. ND typically plays roughly the same name brand of teams each year, but sometimes those teams are good, and sometimes not. In 2018 final AP poll, Michigan was the highest ranked regular season opponent at 14. In 2016, USC and Stanford were ranked higher than that. ND tends to be either slightly better or slightly worse than opponents, and if the highest ranked opponent is 13, there is a good enough chance that they can go undefeated with a little luck. On the flip slide there is also just as good of a chance they can go 4-8 by being slightly worse than opponents. This is the conference conundrum, where typically you play 1-4 really good teams, and a lot of bad teams, so you are more likely to by 9-3 every year, vs the independent schedule of team all ranked 15 - 30. The variability of ND W/L is going to be higher.

Because you can go 12-0 without being a legit top 5 program (regardless of what the rankings say) and make the playoffs, there is little chance you can beat 2 very good teams to win the Natty. Any given Saturday, you can win one, but the odds are significantly stacked against you to win 2 in a row. With the old BCS format, you could have maybe lucked into a championship with a good match up, or an off day for the opponent, but not with the playoff. I don't see this changing under BK and the current structure. Some of this comes down to lack of conference affiliation. If in 2018 ND had to play Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, or Oklahoma in a conference championship game, odds are they would have lost and there would be no conversation about ND being overrated in another major bowl game blowout. That conference championship game is essentially a playoff game only in the fact that the loser is out. They would be like Georgia or Texas, a good team who is not quite at the same level as the playoff teams. It is a disservice to the team to let them think they can compete with the elite teams in the country because of a 12-0 record.

The 27 point loss to Clemson compared to Alabama's 28 point loss does not mean that ND is on the same level as Alabama. Clemson played a mediocre game against ND, and a perfect game against Alabama. Clemson spent 4 weeks preparing for Alabama, and only 1 week on ND. Clemson's focus coming into every season now is how to beat Alabama, unconcerned about any other teams they could face. It is a 1v1 championship rivalry that Clemson has figured out how to play. ND is not at this level. ND's loss to Clemson did not come down to lack of PI calls, or Love getting hurt, or momentum killed because of overturned calls. It was because Clemson has better talent and the coaching staff is superior. I saw a lot of overenthusiastic ND fans talking about how Clemson would be crushed because they almost lost to Syracuse, or they gave of 500 yards passing to Bentley, but none of that matter in team vs team match ups. Clemson is a better team than ND, and it doesn't help the ND case to push the narrative that they could beat Clemson.

I have seen several posts that say ND could win if they were allowed to recruit 5 star talent like Lawrence or Ross. This is nonsense. If either of these kids wanted to go to ND, they would be playing there today. It has been suggested that if ND had Trevor Lawrence and Clemson had Book, that ND with Lawrence would have beat Clemson. That is reasonably plausible if the switch had happened in Dec. If the switch had happened in August, Clemson would still have won, because of superior coaching, and a better battle between Book and Kelly Bryant. Not sure Book would have even been on the field.

In order to be considered elite, ND is going to need to beat some SEC teams or Clemson. Beating Michigan does nothing for reputation. 2 great opportunities in the next 2 years. At Georgia, and Clemson at home. ND has got to win 1 of these 2 to take the next step. The thing about becoming elite is it doesn't matter who you lose to, it matter who you beat, and ND hasn't beat an elite team in a very long time.

Duh!! So Mr. Obvious, instead of regurgitating hypotheses we already have bantered about, what are your solutions? You offered absolutely no fix to win a Natty other than we have to beat elite teams. Wow, what a stunner.

 

[NDAFArly]

This is the dumbest thread I’ve seen yet. And that’s saying a lot.
I love how many people are silent while 12-0 then come out like crazy after a loss.
Doesn’t surprise me one bit. Most are whiny babies who have not/will never accomplish anything, so just live to complain on the internet.

 

[NDAFArly]

I'm a new poster to this forum, but have several observations after being on here for a few weeks.

The difference between a 4-8 2016 ND team and a 12-0 2018 ND team is insignificant and within the margin of error of average for the team. It all comes down to schedule. ND typically plays roughly the same name brand of teams each year, but sometimes those teams are good, and sometimes not. In 2018 final AP poll, Michigan was the highest ranked regular season opponent at 14. In 2016, USC and Stanford were ranked higher than that. ND tends to be either slightly better or slightly worse than opponents, and if the highest ranked opponent is 13, there is a good enough chance that they can go undefeated with a little luck. On the flip slide there is also just as good of a chance they can go 4-8 by being slightly worse than opponents. This is the conference conundrum, where typically you play 1-4 really good teams, and a lot of bad teams, so you are more likely to by 9-3 every year, vs the independent schedule of team all ranked 15 - 30. The variability of ND W/L is going to be higher.

Because you can go 12-0 without being a legit top 5 program (regardless of what the rankings say) and make the playoffs, there is little chance you can beat 2 very good teams to win the Natty. Any given Saturday, you can win one, but the odds are significantly stacked against you to win 2 in a row. With the old BCS format, you could have maybe lucked into a championship with a good match up, or an off day for the opponent, but not with the playoff. I don't see this changing under BK and the current structure. Some of this comes down to lack of conference affiliation. If in 2018 ND had to play Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, or Oklahoma in a conference championship game, odds are they would have lost and there would be no conversation about ND being overrated in another major bowl game blowout. That conference championship game is essentially a playoff game only in the fact that the loser is out. They would be like Georgia or Texas, a good team who is not quite at the same level as the playoff teams. It is a disservice to the team to let them think they can compete with the elite teams in the country because of a 12-0 record.

The 27 point loss to Clemson compared to Alabama's 28 point loss does not mean that ND is on the same level as Alabama. Clemson played a mediocre game against ND, and a perfect game against Alabama. Clemson spent 4 weeks preparing for Alabama, and only 1 week on ND. Clemson's focus coming into every season now is how to beat Alabama, unconcerned about any other teams they could face. It is a 1v1 championship rivalry that Clemson has figured out how to play. ND is not at this level. ND's loss to Clemson did not come down to lack of PI calls, or Love getting hurt, or momentum killed because of overturned calls. It was because Clemson has better talent and the coaching staff is superior. I saw a lot of overenthusiastic ND fans talking about how Clemson would be crushed because they almost lost to Syracuse, or they gave of 500 yards passing to Bentley, but none of that matter in team vs team match ups. Clemson is a better team than ND, and it doesn't help the ND case to push the narrative that they could beat Clemson.

I have seen several posts that say ND could win if they were allowed to recruit 5 star talent like Lawrence or Ross. This is nonsense. If either of these kids wanted to go to ND, they would be playing there today. It has been suggested that if ND had Trevor Lawrence and Clemson had Book, that ND with Lawrence would have beat Clemson. That is reasonably plausible if the switch had happened in Dec. If the switch had happened in August, Clemson would still have won, because of superior coaching, and a better battle between Book and Kelly Bryant. Not sure Book would have even been on the field.

In order to be considered elite, ND is going to need to beat some SEC teams or Clemson. Beating Michigan does nothing for reputation. 2 great opportunities in the next 2 years. At Georgia, and Clemson at home. ND has got to win 1 of these 2 to take the next step. The thing about becoming elite is it doesn't matter who you lose to, it matter who you beat, and ND hasn't beat an elite team in a very long time.

You haven’t been on a few weeks. You joined yesterday evening. And you used the term “natty” which is stupid. Clemson players & coaches said they spent a month on ND & a week on Bama. And two Clemson players said they “liked their matchups against Alabama’s defense better than agaibst ND’s.”

Nice try troll.

 

[echowaker]

I'm a new poster to this forum, but have several observations after being on here for a few weeks.

The difference between a 4-8 2016 ND team and a 12-0 2018 ND team is insignificant and within the margin of error of average for the team. It all comes down to schedule. ND typically plays roughly the same name brand of teams each year, but sometimes those teams are good, and sometimes not. In 2018 final AP poll, Michigan was the highest ranked regular season opponent at 14. In 2016, USC and Stanford were ranked higher than that. ND tends to be either slightly better or slightly worse than opponents, and if the highest ranked opponent is 13, there is a good enough chance that they can go undefeated with a little luck. On the flip slide there is also just as good of a chance they can go 4-8 by being slightly worse than opponents. This is the conference conundrum, where typically you play 1-4 really good teams, and a lot of bad teams, so you are more likely to by 9-3 every year, vs the independent schedule of team all ranked 15 - 30. The variability of ND W/L is going to be higher.

Because you can go 12-0 without being a legit top 5 program (regardless of what the rankings say) and make the playoffs, there is little chance you can beat 2 very good teams to win the Natty. Any given Saturday, you can win one, but the odds are significantly stacked against you to win 2 in a row. With the old BCS format, you could have maybe lucked into a championship with a good match up, or an off day for the opponent, but not with the playoff. I don't see this changing under BK and the current structure. Some of this comes down to lack of conference affiliation. If in 2018 ND had to play Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, or Oklahoma in a conference championship game, odds are they would have lost and there would be no conversation about ND being overrated in another major bowl game blowout. That conference championship game is essentially a playoff game only in the fact that the loser is out. They would be like Georgia or Texas, a good team who is not quite at the same level as the playoff teams. It is a disservice to the team to let them think they can compete with the elite teams in the country because of a 12-0 record.

The 27 point loss to Clemson compared to Alabama's 28 point loss does not mean that ND is on the same level as Alabama. Clemson played a mediocre game against ND, and a perfect game against Alabama. Clemson spent 4 weeks preparing for Alabama, and only 1 week on ND. Clemson's focus coming into every season now is how to beat Alabama, unconcerned about any other teams they could face. It is a 1v1 championship rivalry that Clemson has figured out how to play. ND is not at this level. ND's loss to Clemson did not come down to lack of PI calls, or Love getting hurt, or momentum killed because of overturned calls. It was because Clemson has better talent and the coaching staff is superior. I saw a lot of overenthusiastic ND fans talking about how Clemson would be crushed because they almost lost to Syracuse, or they gave of 500 yards passing to Bentley, but none of that matter in team vs team match ups. Clemson is a better team than ND, and it doesn't help the ND case to push the narrative that they could beat Clemson.

I have seen several posts that say ND could win if they were allowed to recruit 5 star talent like Lawrence or Ross. This is nonsense. If either of these kids wanted to go to ND, they would be playing there today. It has been suggested that if ND had Trevor Lawrence and Clemson had Book, that ND with Lawrence would have beat Clemson. That is reasonably plausible if the switch had happened in Dec. If the switch had happened in August, Clemson would still have won, because of superior coaching, and a better battle between Book and Kelly Bryant. Not sure Book would have even been on the field.

In order to be considered elite, ND is going to need to beat some SEC teams or Clemson. Beating Michigan does nothing for reputation. 2 great opportunities in the next 2 years. At Georgia, and Clemson at home. ND has got to win 1 of these 2 to take the next step. The thing about becoming elite is it doesn't matter who you lose to, it matter who you beat, and ND hasn't beat an elite team in a very long time.

wow, i'll never get that wasted minute back. what drivel.

 

[irishalice]

I'm a new poster to this forum, but have several observations after being on here for a few weeks.

The difference between a 4-8 2016 ND team and a 12-0 2018 ND team is insignificant and within the margin of error of average for the team. It all comes down to schedule. ND typically plays roughly the same name brand of teams each year, but sometimes those teams are good, and sometimes not. In 2018 final AP poll, Michigan was the highest ranked regular season opponent at 14. In 2016, USC and Stanford were ranked higher than that. ND tends to be either slightly better or slightly worse than opponents, and if the highest ranked opponent is 13, there is a good enough chance that they can go undefeated with a little luck. On the flip slide there is also just as good of a chance they can go 4-8 by being slightly worse than opponents. This is the conference conundrum, where typically you play 1-4 really good teams, and a lot of bad teams, so you are more likely to by 9-3 every year, vs the independent schedule of team all ranked 15 - 30. The variability of ND W/L is going to be higher.

Because you can go 12-0 without being a legit top 5 program (regardless of what the rankings say) and make the playoffs, there is little chance you can beat 2 very good teams to win the Natty. Any given Saturday, you can win one, but the odds are significantly stacked against you to win 2 in a row. With the old BCS format, you could have maybe lucked into a championship with a good match up, or an off day for the opponent, but not with the playoff. I don't see this changing under BK and the current structure. Some of this comes down to lack of conference affiliation. If in 2018 ND had to play Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, or Oklahoma in a conference championship game, odds are they would have lost and there would be no conversation about ND being overrated in another major bowl game blowout. That conference championship game is essentially a playoff game only in the fact that the loser is out. They would be like Georgia or Texas, a good team who is not quite at the same level as the playoff teams. It is a disservice to the team to let them think they can compete with the elite teams in the country because of a 12-0 record.

The 27 point loss to Clemson compared to Alabama's 28 point loss does not mean that ND is on the same level as Alabama. Clemson played a mediocre game against ND, and a perfect game against Alabama. Clemson spent 4 weeks preparing for Alabama, and only 1 week on ND. Clemson's focus coming into every season now is how to beat Alabama, unconcerned about any other teams they could face. It is a 1v1 championship rivalry that Clemson has figured out how to play. ND is not at this level. ND's loss to Clemson did not come down to lack of PI calls, or Love getting hurt, or momentum killed because of overturned calls. It was because Clemson has better talent and the coaching staff is superior. I saw a lot of overenthusiastic ND fans talking about how Clemson would be crushed because they almost lost to Syracuse, or they gave of 500 yards passing to Bentley, but none of that matter in team vs team match ups. Clemson is a better team than ND, and it doesn't help the ND case to push the narrative that they could beat Clemson.

I have seen several posts that say ND could win if they were allowed to recruit 5 star talent like Lawrence or Ross. This is nonsense. If either of these kids wanted to go to ND, they would be playing there today. It has been suggested that if ND had Trevor Lawrence and Clemson had Book, that ND with Lawrence would have beat Clemson. That is reasonably plausible if the switch had happened in Dec. If the switch had happened in August, Clemson would still have won, because of superior coaching, and a better battle between Book and Kelly Bryant. Not sure Book would have even been on the field.

In order to be considered elite, ND is going to need to beat some SEC teams or Clemson. Beating Michigan does nothing for reputation. 2 great opportunities in the next 2 years. At Georgia, and Clemson at home. ND has got to win 1 of these 2 to take the next step. The thing about becoming elite is it doesn't matter who you lose to, it matter who you beat, and ND hasn't beat an elite team in a very long time.

Hurricane? As in Miami Hurricanes fan?

 

[mrwigglesby21]

You haven’t been on a few weeks. You joined yesterday evening. And you used the term “natty” which is stupid. Clemson players & coaches said they spent a month on ND & a week on Bama. And two Clemson players said they “liked their matchups against Alabama’s defense better than agaibst ND’s.”

Nice try troll.

This is a free board. I'm pretty sure you can open and read every thread without joining. So he very well could have been observing this board for weeks and then joined yesterday. But by all means, carry on with the name calling, which is something the Troll OP didn't even do.

I like a lot of what OP said. I recently sold my small healthcare staffing company and am now a Director of Recruiting at a privately held staffing organization doing over $250 million a year in revenue. I also played safety my freshman year of college at the U of Memphis (walked on, turned down scholarships to lesser local schools UTMartin, Lambuth, MVST) before I realized I was more interested in alcohol and women than accumulating a 3-8 record getting my ass kicked. Also watching Mike Mckenzie practice on a daily basis allowed me to realize I would NEVER sniff the NFL.

Outside of IIO, I haven't seen anyone on this board with more intimate knowledge of the recruiting process than myself. Though I'm sure there are former players at the college, mabye even pro, level that cruise and keep a low profile.

Notre Dame is NOT recruiting at the level needed to beat Georgia, Oklahoma, then Clemson, in three consecutive games to win a title. No, we will never have to play in the SEC Champ game, but, we very well could be facing an elite USC, followed by playoff game 1 and 2. I'd like to look like we belong, not like we lucked in. If we are not attempting to recruit on a level that will bring National Titles, then join the ACC in full and allow us to win ACC Championships.

We also need better coaches and recruiters. I think Kelly is a great CEO. I like Long's potential (he coached at Memphis actually and the Memphis offense was FAR more explosive than ND's - I don't know what to attribute that to). I like Lea, but he had a stacked D this year, let's see how he handles the rebuild.

If I played safety for Clemson, what would scare me about ND? Dex Williams and a seem route to Alize Mack, that's it. We ran no screen plays to Dex, we never flexed him out as a WR, and we never ran a seem route with Mack. Claypool was the most dangerous WR and he played wide side of the field and Book doesn't have the arm to throw 15yrd out routes to the wide-side of the field. A pass that is 30-40 yards and needs to be on a rope. That is what would scare me as a safety. And since I'm not scared, and my coaches aren't scared, we ain't gonna run cover 2 or keep a safety deep, or any of that mess, we are going to play man coverage, overwhelm you with our athleticism, and let the safeties creep into the box and shut down the only weapon ND had. And that is EXACTLY what they did. Did you see #11 on Clemson?? He was everything Max Redfield was supposed to be. Clemson had the top 8 players on the field. Julian Love and Dex maybe could crack that top 8, but doubtful.

Alabama has 4 Dexter Williams, a Michael Floyd, a Will Fuller, and a Golden Tate, and a Tyler Eifert, and a Heisman finalist QB. But yeah, ND is reeeeeaaal close to that.

Call me a troll though. Cuz I haven't been suffering through the last 25yrs like you.

 

[Holycrossover3]

I'm a new poster to this forum, but have several observations after being on here for a few weeks.

The difference between a 4-8 2016 ND team and a 12-0 2018 ND team is insignificant and within the margin of error of average for the team. It all comes down to schedule. ND typically plays roughly the same name brand of teams each year, but sometimes those teams are good, and sometimes not. In 2018 final AP poll, Michigan was the highest ranked regular season opponent at 14. In 2016, USC and Stanford were ranked higher than that. ND tends to be either slightly better or slightly worse than opponents, and if the highest ranked opponent is 13, there is a good enough chance that they can go undefeated with a little luck. On the flip slide there is also just as good of a chance they can go 4-8 by being slightly worse than opponents. This is the conference conundrum, where typically you play 1-4 really good teams, and a lot of bad teams, so you are more likely to by 9-3 every year, vs the independent schedule of team all ranked 15 - 30. The variability of ND W/L is going to be higher.

Because you can go 12-0 without being a legit top 5 program (regardless of what the rankings say) and make the playoffs, there is little chance you can beat 2 very good teams to win the Natty. Any given Saturday, you can win one, but the odds are significantly stacked against you to win 2 in a row. With the old BCS format, you could have maybe lucked into a championship with a good match up, or an off day for the opponent, but not with the playoff. I don't see this changing under BK and the current structure. Some of this comes down to lack of conference affiliation. If in 2018 ND had to play Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, or Oklahoma in a conference championship game, odds are they would have lost and there would be no conversation about ND being overrated in another major bowl game blowout. That conference championship game is essentially a playoff game only in the fact that the loser is out. They would be like Georgia or Texas, a good team who is not quite at the same level as the playoff teams. It is a disservice to the team to let them think they can compete with the elite teams in the country because of a 12-0 record.

The 27 point loss to Clemson compared to Alabama's 28 point loss does not mean that ND is on the same level as Alabama. Clemson played a mediocre game against ND, and a perfect game against Alabama. Clemson spent 4 weeks preparing for Alabama, and only 1 week on ND. Clemson's focus coming into every season now is how to beat Alabama, unconcerned about any other teams they could face. It is a 1v1 championship rivalry that Clemson has figured out how to play. ND is not at this level. ND's loss to Clemson did not come down to lack of PI calls, or Love getting hurt, or momentum killed because of overturned calls. It was because Clemson has better talent and the coaching staff is superior. I saw a lot of overenthusiastic ND fans talking about how Clemson would be crushed because they almost lost to Syracuse, or they gave of 500 yards passing to Bentley, but none of that matter in team vs team match ups. Clemson is a better team than ND, and it doesn't help the ND case to push the narrative that they could beat Clemson.

I have seen several posts that say ND could win if they were allowed to recruit 5 star talent like Lawrence or Ross. This is nonsense. If either of these kids wanted to go to ND, they would be playing there today. It has been suggested that if ND had Trevor Lawrence and Clemson had Book, that ND with Lawrence would have beat Clemson. That is reasonably plausible if the switch had happened in Dec. If the switch had happened in August, Clemson would still have won, because of superior coaching, and a better battle between Book and Kelly Bryant. Not sure Book would have even been on the field.

In order to be considered elite, ND is going to need to beat some SEC teams or Clemson. Beating Michigan does nothing for reputation. 2 great opportunities in the next 2 years. At Georgia, and Clemson at home. ND has got to win 1 of these 2 to take the next step. The thing about becoming elite is it doesn't matter who you lose to, it matter who you beat, and ND hasn't beat an elite team in a very long time.

Did your professor ask for a 2,000 word minimum essay here? For anyone wanting a synopsis of this post:

1. Recruit 5 Stars
2. Hire Dabo
3. Beat better teams
4. Blowout worse teams

 

[mrwigglesby21]

Did your professor ask for a 2,000 word minimum essay here? For anyone wanting a synopsis of this post:

1. Recruit 5 Stars
2. Hire Dabo
3. Beat better teams
4. Blowout worse teams

Momma took your xbox away so you take your frustration out on Hurricane Willy? How cute.. Hurricane Willy has contributed more in his one post than you have in 6.5 years. Though your likes to posts ratio is stellar, so you do know how to be cute. You probably kill it on twitter.

 

[torsten]

Join Conference

Expand recruiting standards

 

[NDSMC78]

Join Conference

Expand recruiting standards

What does "expand recruiting standards" mean?

I, for one, am totally opposed to joining a conference.

 

[irishalice]

What does "expand recruiting standards" mean?

I, for one, am totally opposed to joining a conference.

From reading torsten's past posts, he is most likely a Miami Hurricane fan. Guessing he thinks ND needs to loosen recruiting standards and of course, join a conference. Think he'd be more concerned with the lackluster season the Canes had.

 

[Pennick4]

This is a free board. I'm pretty sure you can open and read every thread without joining. So he very well could have been observing this board for weeks and then joined yesterday. But by all means, carry on with the name calling, which is something the Troll OP didn't even do.

I like a lot of what OP said. I recently sold my small healthcare staffing company and am now a Director of Recruiting at a privately held staffing organization doing over $250 million a year in revenue. I also played safety my freshman year of college at the U of Memphis (walked on, turned down scholarships to lesser local schools UTMartin, Lambuth, MVST) before I realized I was more interested in alcohol and women than accumulating a 3-8 record getting my ass kicked. Also watching Mike Mckenzie practice on a daily basis allowed me to realize I would NEVER sniff the NFL.

Outside of IIO, I haven't seen anyone on this board with more intimate knowledge of the recruiting process than myself. Though I'm sure there are former players at the college, mabye even pro, level that cruise and keep a low profile.

Notre Dame is NOT recruiting at the level needed to beat Georgia, Oklahoma, then Clemson, in three consecutive games to win a title. No, we will never have to play in the SEC Champ game, but, we very well could be facing an elite USC, followed by playoff game 1 and 2. I'd like to look like we belong, not like we lucked in. If we are not attempting to recruit on a level that will bring National Titles, then join the ACC in full and allow us to win ACC Championships.

We also need better coaches and recruiters. I think Kelly is a great CEO. I like Long's potential (he coached at Memphis actually and the Memphis offense was FAR more explosive than ND's - I don't know what to attribute that to). I like Lea, but he had a stacked D this year, let's see how he handles the rebuild.

If I played safety for Clemson, what would scare me about ND? Dex Williams and a seem route to Alize Mack, that's it. We ran no screen plays to Dex, we never flexed him out as a WR, and we never ran a seem route with Mack. Claypool was the most dangerous WR and he played wide side of the field and Book doesn't have the arm to throw 15yrd out routes to the wide-side of the field. A pass that is 30-40 yards and needs to be on a rope. That is what would scare me as a safety. And since I'm not scared, and my coaches aren't scared, we ain't gonna run cover 2 or keep a safety deep, or any of that mess, we are going to play man coverage, overwhelm you with our athleticism, and let the safeties creep into the box and shut down the only weapon ND had. And that is EXACTLY what they did. Did you see #11 on Clemson?? He was everything Max Redfield was supposed to be. Clemson had the top 8 players on the field. Julian Love and Dex maybe could crack that top 8, but doubtful.

Alabama has 4 Dexter Williams, a Michael Floyd, a Will Fuller, and a Golden Tate, and a Tyler Eifert, and a Heisman finalist QB. But yeah, ND is reeeeeaaal close to that.

Call me a troll though. Cuz I haven't been suffering through the last 25yrs like you.

Nitwit alert!

 

[NDSMC78]

From reading torsten's past posts, he is most likely a Miami Hurricane fan. Guessing he thinks ND needs to loosen recruiting standards and of course, join a conference. Think he'd be more concerned with the lackluster season the Canes had.

I dunno. Could he be a Tulsa fan?

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Alabama finished the season playing Georgia, Oklahoma and Clemson. It literally doesnt get tougher than that.

Clemson finished with Pitt and Notre Dame. They were fresh for Bama. Pitt and ND is a joke compared to what Alabama had to go through.

We are alot further away from elite status than folks think. We have a nice program now, that's it.

Had ND scheduled Georgia, Oklahoma and Clemson as their last three games they would be outscored 120 - 21.

We get elite OL, that's it. And they disappear in big games. We had two top 10 NFL draft picks on the left side of the line and couldn't run for shit vs Georgia. Soft ass coaching.

We need more toxic masculinity, not Gilette softies that want to spoon with upperclassmen and travel Europe. We need guys that want to win and knock someone's head off, like Alohi G., and Drue T. But we need that attitude in athletes with measurables for the NFL, not tweeners that should be playing at Iowa.

Nice post OP.

Its weird that you say Bama ended with Georgia, OU and Clemson but then don't give Clemson Bama as one of the teams they ended with. Also throwing in the Gillette commentary is dumb. Europe is dope.

 

[Holycrossover3]

Momma took your xbox away so you take your frustration out on Hurricane Willy? How cute.. Hurricane Willy has contributed more in his one post than you have in 6.5 years. Though your likes to posts ratio is stellar, so you do know how to be cute. You probably kill it on twitter.

I don’t post often. I simply enjoy reading what fellow Irish alums/fans have to saying about the team.

That said, I thought it was comical Big Willy wrote 10 paragraphs with no substance. Truly impressive actually.

I would bet that due to this being Willy’s first post ever, and you justifying every attack on his post, that you two are one in the same.

Life’s tough Mr Wiggles, get a helmet.

 

[mrwigglesby21]

Nitwit alert!

Nice looking mirror you have there pal; Hobby Lobby?

 

[mrwigglesby21]

Its weird that you say Bama ended with Georgia, OU and Clemson but then don't give Clemson Bama as one of the teams they ended with. Also throwing in the Gillette commentary is dumb. Europe is dope.

I'm moving quickly my friend, my apologies. We know Clemson ended with Bama. I was comparing GA/OK versus Pitt/ND for the road traveled. Though I think Clemson is fully capable of beating GA, OK, then Alabama. Dabo has that program humming.

You are correct, my comment regarding Gillette could have been substituted for something more on topic.

 

[mrwigglesby21]

I don’t post often. I simply enjoy reading what fellow Irish alums/fans have to saying about the team.

That said, I thought it was comical Big Willy wrote 10 paragraphs with no substance. Truly impressive actually.

I would bet that due to this being Willy’s first post ever, and you justifying every attack on his post, that you two are one in the same.

Life’s tough Mr Wiggles, get a helmet.

I am definitely not Hurricane Willy. I tend to respond harshly to folks I perceive as bullying and not furthering the conversation.

His opening paragraph is not an analysis I've read on this board in the last 2 months. He also insults nobody.

How about you put the helmet on and post more?

*edit, if your comment of 'fellow Irish alums/fans' was your sly way of letting me/others know you're an alum - congratulations, truly something to be proud of. One of my greatest accomplishments would be getting my son into ND - but I doubt that happens.

 

[Pennick4]

Nice looking mirror you have there pal; Hobby Lobby?

Get back to the drive thru window.

 

[Kelso86]

wow, i'll never get that wasted minute back. what drivel.

"wow, i'll never get that wasted minute back. what drivel."

Thanks for saving me time on something I probably did not want to read!

 

[d1042]

It is clear now, the playoffs were primarily devised and created to make it more difficult for ND to gain entrence or win a national championship. The whole football world is against ND.

 

[NDSMC78]

It is clear now, the playoffs were primarily devised and created to make it more difficult for ND to gain entrence or win a national championship. The whole football world is against ND.

Meant in jest, I am sure. But I think there are some people here who actually believe this.

 

[Holycrossover3]

I am definitely not Hurricane Willy. I tend to respond harshly to folks I perceive as bullying and not furthering the conversation.

His opening paragraph is not an analysis I've read on this board in the last 2 months. He also insults nobody.

How about you put the helmet on and post more?

*edit, if your comment of 'fellow Irish alums/fans' was your sly way of letting me/others know you're an alum - congratulations, truly something to be proud of. One of my greatest accomplishments would be getting my son into ND - but I doubt that happens.

Bullying is an excessive accusation here.

When a new poster with a rival opponents account name writes an excessively long post which is purely critical and has no insight as to why he’s critical or how the Irish can improve... he’s going to get sarcastic negative response comments.

I wasn’t trying to be sly and I wish your son all of the luck in being accepted. My advice would be to set a meeting with the admissions office and come up with a plan of attack on how to increase his odds for acceptance. I transferred in because that was my best option. Good luck & Go Irish.

 

[irishalice]

I dunno. Could he be a Tulsa fan?

torstenHi I'm new here
Joined:
Dec 3, 2004
Messages:
19
Likes Received:
9
It's been fun getting a reminder of what (some) ND people are like. Just makes tonight even nicer. But I'll leave you to your misery as I have happier things to do. If you guys do happen to run into anyone wearing a gold chain, just do the priest chant from the Exorcist and I'm sure the evil individualists will leave you alone. Stay out of south Florida though. You don't handle it well.

50 torsten, Nov 12, 2017

Thinking Miami, not Tulsa.

Back on topic...

The OP likens a conference championship game to a playoff game. Seriously? How many marquee matchups are there yearly in college conference championship games? Also, OSU and Bama have bypassed the conference champ to make the playoffs.

...and edging to the end of January I am looking forward to 9/2/19.

Go Irish! Beat Louisville!!

 

[chaseball]

I'm a new poster to this forum, but have several observations after being on here for a few weeks.

The difference between a 4-8 2016 ND team and a 12-0 2018 ND team is insignificant and within the margin of error of average for the team. It all comes down to schedule. ND typically plays roughly the same name brand of teams each year, but sometimes those teams are good, and sometimes not. In 2018 final AP poll, Michigan was the highest ranked regular season opponent at 14. In 2016, USC and Stanford were ranked higher than that. ND tends to be either slightly better or slightly worse than opponents, and if the highest ranked opponent is 13, there is a good enough chance that they can go undefeated with a little luck. On the flip slide there is also just as good of a chance they can go 4-8 by being slightly worse than opponents. This is the conference conundrum, where typically you play 1-4 really good teams, and a lot of bad teams, so you are more likely to by 9-3 every year, vs the independent schedule of team all ranked 15 - 30. The variability of ND W/L is going to be higher.

Because you can go 12-0 without being a legit top 5 program (regardless of what the rankings say) and make the playoffs, there is little chance you can beat 2 very good teams to win the Natty. Any given Saturday, you can win one, but the odds are significantly stacked against you to win 2 in a row. With the old BCS format, you could have maybe lucked into a championship with a good match up, or an off day for the opponent, but not with the playoff. I don't see this changing under BK and the current structure. Some of this comes down to lack of conference affiliation. If in 2018 ND had to play Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, or Oklahoma in a conference championship game, odds are they would have lost and there would be no conversation about ND being overrated in another major bowl game blowout. That conference championship game is essentially a playoff game only in the fact that the loser is out. They would be like Georgia or Texas, a good team who is not quite at the same level as the playoff teams. It is a disservice to the team to let them think they can compete with the elite teams in the country because of a 12-0 record.

The 27 point loss to Clemson compared to Alabama's 28 point loss does not mean that ND is on the same level as Alabama. Clemson played a mediocre game against ND, and a perfect game against Alabama. Clemson spent 4 weeks preparing for Alabama, and only 1 week on ND. Clemson's focus coming into every season now is how to beat Alabama, unconcerned about any other teams they could face. It is a 1v1 championship rivalry that Clemson has figured out how to play. ND is not at this level. ND's loss to Clemson did not come down to lack of PI calls, or Love getting hurt, or momentum killed because of overturned calls. It was because Clemson has better talent and the coaching staff is superior. I saw a lot of overenthusiastic ND fans talking about how Clemson would be crushed because they almost lost to Syracuse, or they gave of 500 yards passing to Bentley, but none of that matter in team vs team match ups. Clemson is a better team than ND, and it doesn't help the ND case to push the narrative that they could beat Clemson.

I have seen several posts that say ND could win if they were allowed to recruit 5 star talent like Lawrence or Ross. This is nonsense. If either of these kids wanted to go to ND, they would be playing there today. It has been suggested that if ND had Trevor Lawrence and Clemson had Book, that ND with Lawrence would have beat Clemson. That is reasonably plausible if the switch had happened in Dec. If the switch had happened in August, Clemson would still have won, because of superior coaching, and a better battle between Book and Kelly Bryant. Not sure Book would have even been on the field.

In order to be considered elite, ND is going to need to beat some SEC teams or Clemson. Beating Michigan does nothing for reputation. 2 great opportunities in the next 2 years. At Georgia, and Clemson at home. ND has got to win 1 of these 2 to take the next step. The thing about becoming elite is it doesn't matter who you lose to, it matter who you beat, and ND hasn't beat an elite team in a very long time.

I don't agree with some of the comments in this post and dont have the time to go into the reasons why at the moment but i appreciate a well written and fresh take and hope that you join the conversation/debate and post more often. Thanks for contributing.

 

[Shulkswagen]

Had ND scheduled Georgia, Oklahoma and Clemson as their last three games they would be outscored 120 - 21.


Nice post OP.[/QUOTE]

3 loss Georgia? The team that was blown out twice by 3 and 4 loss teams? That Georgia?

Get a clue man.

ND was destroyed in 87 Cotton Bowl by Texas A&M amd was best team in CFB a season later. Clemson was a non factor in playoff game last year and rolled Alabama for the title this year.

 

[88ND]

I'm a new poster to this forum, but have several observations after being on here for a few weeks.

The difference between a 4-8 2016 ND team and a 12-0 2018 ND team is insignificant and within the margin of error of average for the team. It all comes down to schedule. ND typically plays roughly the same name brand of teams each year, but sometimes those teams are good, and sometimes not. In 2018 final AP poll, Michigan was the highest ranked regular season opponent at 14. In 2016, USC and Stanford were ranked higher than that. ND tends to be either slightly better or slightly worse than opponents, and if the highest ranked opponent is 13, there is a good enough chance that they can go undefeated with a little luck. On the flip slide there is also just as good of a chance they can go 4-8 by being slightly worse than opponents. This is the conference conundrum, where typically you play 1-4 really good teams, and a lot of bad teams, so you are more likely to by 9-3 every year, vs the independent schedule of team all ranked 15 - 30. The variability of ND W/L is going to be higher.

Because you can go 12-0 without being a legit top 5 program (regardless of what the rankings say) and make the playoffs, there is little chance you can beat 2 very good teams to win the Natty. Any given Saturday, you can win one, but the odds are significantly stacked against you to win 2 in a row. With the old BCS format, you could have maybe lucked into a championship with a good match up, or an off day for the opponent, but not with the playoff. I don't see this changing under BK and the current structure. Some of this comes down to lack of conference affiliation. If in 2018 ND had to play Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, or Oklahoma in a conference championship game, odds are they would have lost and there would be no conversation about ND being overrated in another major bowl game blowout. That conference championship game is essentially a playoff game only in the fact that the loser is out. They would be like Georgia or Texas, a good team who is not quite at the same level as the playoff teams. It is a disservice to the team to let them think they can compete with the elite teams in the country because of a 12-0 record.

The 27 point loss to Clemson compared to Alabama's 28 point loss does not mean that ND is on the same level as Alabama. Clemson played a mediocre game against ND, and a perfect game against Alabama. Clemson spent 4 weeks preparing for Alabama, and only 1 week on ND. Clemson's focus coming into every season now is how to beat Alabama, unconcerned about any other teams they could face. It is a 1v1 championship rivalry that Clemson has figured out how to play. ND is not at this level. ND's loss to Clemson did not come down to lack of PI calls, or Love getting hurt, or momentum killed because of overturned calls. It was because Clemson has better talent and the coaching staff is superior. I saw a lot of overenthusiastic ND fans talking about how Clemson would be crushed because they almost lost to Syracuse, or they gave of 500 yards passing to Bentley, but none of that matter in team vs team match ups. Clemson is a better team than ND, and it doesn't help the ND case to push the narrative that they could beat Clemson.

I have seen several posts that say ND could win if they were allowed to recruit 5 star talent like Lawrence or Ross. This is nonsense. If either of these kids wanted to go to ND, they would be playing there today. It has been suggested that if ND had Trevor Lawrence and Clemson had Book, that ND with Lawrence would have beat Clemson. That is reasonably plausible if the switch had happened in Dec. If the switch had happened in August, Clemson would still have won, because of superior coaching, and a better battle between Book and Kelly Bryant. Not sure Book would have even been on the field.

In order to be considered elite, ND is going to need to beat some SEC teams or Clemson. Beating Michigan does nothing for reputation. 2 great opportunities in the next 2 years. At Georgia, and Clemson at home. ND has got to win 1 of these 2 to take the next step. The thing about becoming elite is it doesn't matter who you lose to, it matter who you beat, and ND hasn't beat an elite team in a very long time.

How about we just start with winning a major bowl game. Something Kelly has yet to do. Matter of fact how about we even be competitive in a major bowl game. That alone would be a gigantic leap.

Imagine that...talking Notre Dame and about just being competitive in a major bowl game...even if we lose.

My oh my, our beloved mother..where have you gone?

 

[Patrirish]

Mr Wigglesby21,

I too was puzzled by ND’s failure to run left more proficiently in 2017 with 2 outstanding NFL lineman.

Still a mystery to me.

 

[Patrirish]

Hurricane Willy,

How do you know that Clemson played a mediocre game against ND and a perfect game against Alabama ?

Maybe it was the level of competition.

Let’s also not forget that Clemson got every break in that game and ND got none.

 

[AzIrish69]

Alabama finished the season playing Georgia, Oklahoma and Clemson. It literally doesnt get tougher than that.

Clemson finished with Pitt and Notre Dame. They were fresh for Bama. Pitt and ND is a joke compared to what Alabama had to go through.

We are alot further away from elite status than folks think. We have a nice program now, that's it.

Had ND scheduled Georgia, Oklahoma and Clemson as their last three games they would be outscored 120 - 21.

We get elite OL, that's it. And they disappear in big games. We had two top 10 NFL draft picks on the left side of the line and couldn't run for shit vs Georgia. Soft ass coaching.

We need more toxic masculinity, not Gilette softies that want to spoon with upperclassmen and travel Europe. We need guys that want to win and knock someone's head off, like Alohi G., and Drue T. But we need that attitude in athletes with measurables for the NFL, not tweeners that should be playing at Iowa.

Nice post OP.

Toxic Masculinity?

Boys will be boys!

We need more gentle giants who understand that jacked up testosterone performance on the field only can lead to violence against other men and women off the field.

College football would be much better served, if it involved flags and no pads, and was equally represented by women on the playing field.

Please check your man card at the door the next time you choose to bring your archaic way of thinking to this site again.

Has ESPN's hiring the past few years of numerous women anchors and sports reporters taught you nothing?????

Good Day!

 

[NDIRISH53]

Hurricane? As in Miami Hurricanes fan?

My coworker is a hardcore canes fan and an even bigger Dallas Cowboys fan. I’m from Philly.

 

[mrwigglesby21]

3 loss Georgia? The team that was blown out twice by 3 and 4 loss teams? That Georgia?

Get a clue man.

ND was destroyed in 87 Cotton Bowl by Texas A&M amd was best team in CFB a season later. Clemson was a non factor in playoff game last year and rolled Alabama for the title this year.

I appreciate the response.

Georgia underperformed this year, sure. But I dont think the ND roster and staff can beat GA roster and staff more than 3-4 times out of 10 on a neutral field. I would settle for 5 wins, meaning we are on par as a program.

In 87 Notre Dame had Lou Holtz and was recruiting at an elite level. Do we have Lou Holtz? Are we recruiting at an elite level? Clemson and Alabama are vacillating between #1 program in the nation, they can afford a bad loss.

Kelly's best wins are over a subpar Oklahoma in 2012 and subpar Michigan in 2018. A win against an 11-1 Michigan St looked good until that program met Bama and got slapped back so hard they havent recovered. Kelly has not beaten an 88 Miami, 93 FL St, or even come close to a 2005 Bush Push.

 

[mrwigglesby21]

Mr Wigglesby21,

I too was puzzled by ND’s failure to run left more proficiently in 2017 with 2 outstanding NFL lineman.

Still a mystery to me.

They were great in 2017 overall. Just couldn't open holes vs GA. But hey, that was GA's game plan and they executed.

Really looking forward to watching Aaron Banks, he reminds me of another Aaron, Aaron Taylor.

 

[tbonesays]

In 2018 final AP poll, Michigan was the highest ranked regular season opponent at 14. In 2016, USC and Stanford were ranked higher than that.

Amazing how teams are ranked higher when they win the game.

 

[irontooth123]

Nitwit alert!

Mr. Wigglesby needs psychiatric help. Who comes to an anonymous message board and gives a manic post about all that he has accomplished? Answer: Someone who can get away with it on an anonymous message board. I guess he thought we would all write, "Oh my God Mr. Wigglesby, you are so successful, you must know more than anyone else about recruiting because you sold your company".

Conclusion: He works at Chipotle in the Burrito line and also posts under the moniker of Hurricane Willy.

 

[irishalice]

My coworker is a hardcore canes fan and an even bigger Dallas Cowboys fan. I’m from hen the Philly.

I pass a house daily on my way into town that flies the Cane flag year around and know of three HS compadres that actually have degrees from the University of Miami. One got his BA from Notre Dame and his law degree from Miami. Vincennes on a good day has about a population of 20,000.

...what is funnier is that back in the day of Petey and Bush, I 'd pass a house that flew a Trojie football flag.

My gist though is why in hades would a Hurricane fan* be posting on this board telling Irish fans how ND won't do this or that because of this or that when the Miami Hurricanes were ranked in the top ten at the beginning of the season and ended up with a 7-6 record. #GLASSHOUSES

*If the OP is Cane fan