Not So Fast…

eshupe

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Lou Holtz started 1-4 and finished 4-2 with the two being close losses to ranked opponents.
Brian Kelly started 1-3 and went 7-2 the rest of the way I believe.
Holtz’s teams played competitive right from the start, Kelly had some bad losses.
So how will this team finish? To me that is more important than how they have started. If this staff can’t find its footing and come together down the stretch then that will be a good indication that Freeman was a the wrong choice.
 

HarlemIrish

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Lou Holtz started 1-4 and finished 4-2 with the two being close losses to ranked opponents.
Brian Kelly started 1-3 and went 7-2 the rest of the way I believe.
Holtz’s teams played competitive right from the start, Kelly had some bad losses.
So how will this team finish? To me that is more important than how they have started. If this staff can’t find its footing and come together down the stretch then that will be a good indication that Freeman was a the wrong choice.
What would you say is Holtz’s worst loss? Also look at all the ranked teams Lou played in his first season. I’m actually getting numb to these losses. Connecticut, Cuse ( senior day snowballs), Navy, Marshall, This Stanford team, South Florida, and northwestern.
 
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NDinNJ

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What would you say is Holtz’s worst loss? Also look at all the ranked teams Lou played in his first season. I’m actually getting numb to these losses. Connecticut, Cuse ( senior day snowballs), Navy, Marshall, This Stanford team, South Florida, and northwestern.
Yep, Holtz was playing 8-9 top 25 teams each year back then and usually 3-4 of those were top 5-10 teams. These young fans don't have a clue.
 

d1042

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Lou Holtz started 1-4 and finished 4-2 with the two being close losses to ranked opponents.
Brian Kelly started 1-3 and went 7-2 the rest of the way I believe.
Holtz’s teams played competitive right from the start, Kelly had some bad losses.
So how will this team finish? To me that is more important than how they have started. If this staff can’t find its footing and come together down the stretch then that will be a good indication that Freeman was a the wrong choice.
some of the more ridiculous analogies are of this type of comparison! ie: Russel Wilson is a great QB at 5’11 so all 5’11 QBs are great! oye!
 

shooter1977

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ND lost to #3 Michigan in the ‘86 opener, but they didn’t punt that game. It was obvious Lou was the answer from day 1. ND made the SI cover that week despite the loss.

It’s a fair point about Kelly having a strong November in 2010. Up until then, they looked like a marginally upgraded Weis team.
 
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HDK

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ND lost to #3 Michigan in the ‘86 opener, but they didn’t punt that game. It was obvious Lou was the answer from day 1. ND made the SI cover that week despite the loss.

It’s a fair point about Kelly having a strong November in 2010. Up until then, they looked like a marginally upgraded Weis team.

I remember thinking Kelly was a disaster the first half of the 2010 season and the first half of the 2011 season. I thought he was way too daring against Michigan when Crist was injured in the first half in 2010, and he literally allowed Rees to throw away the Tulsa game. The next year had the famous meltdown against South Florida and the absurd last-second loss to Michigan.
 

theskibro

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Lou Holtz started 1-4 and finished 4-2 with the two being close losses to ranked opponents.
Brian Kelly started 1-3 and went 7-2 the rest of the way I believe.
Holtz’s teams played competitive right from the start, Kelly had some bad losses.
So how will this team finish? To me that is more important than how they have started. If this staff can’t find its footing and come together down the stretch then that will be a good indication that Freeman was a the wrong choice.
We wish. But the pattern was clearly set in the first game vs Okla state. Freeman is not a head coach n the 2 losses to bad teams are unmatched in your analysis
 
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tbonesays

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ND lost to #3 Michigan in the ‘86 opener, but they didn’t punt that game. It was obvious Lou was the answer from day 1. ND made the SI cover that week despite the loss.

It’s a fair point about Kelly having a strong November in 2010. Up until then, they looked like a marginally upgraded Weis team.
That was BS call, we had the winning TD.

I thought the 2010 Irish showed that Kelly was doing more with less. They lost Clausen, Tate and probably some guys I am forgetting but were better than 2009.

I am not thinking that the loss of Coen and Davis justifies the current record.
 

Get Nasty

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Bob Stoops was 7-5 in his first season at OU.
They were 5-6 the year before.

Can anyone give me an example of a great coaches first year that was far worse than the year prior to taking over.

Freeman took over a team that was good solid/good coaching away from winning the fiesta bowl. Now this year like freeman said, can't even think about bowl games when you've lost to marshall and a terrible stanford team. We have to make improvements just to make a bowl game.

let that sink in. We need to make major improvements just to comfortably make a bowl game this year.
 

d1042

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forget others from the way back machine! what do your eyes see? what are your impressions? and what are your passwords?
 

Golson5

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That was BS call, we had the winning TD.

I thought the 2010 Irish showed that Kelly was doing more with less. They lost Clausen, Tate and probably some guys I am forgetting but were better than 2009.

I am not thinking that the loss of Coen and Davis justifies the current record.
Kyren and Hamilton, you forgot our 2 best players.

But no it doesn't justify our current record. We should be 5 and 1
 

Golson5

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They were 5-6 the year before.

Can anyone give me an example of a great coaches first year that was far worse than the year prior to taking over.

Freeman took over a team that was good solid/good coaching away from winning the fiesta bowl. Now this year like freeman said, can't even think about bowl games when you've lost to marshall and a terrible stanford team. We have to make improvements just to make a bowl game.

let that sink in. We need to make major improvements just to comfortably make a bowl game this year.
I think the only reason we were in the game in the Fiesta Bowl was because Freeman was coaching. That was the best game we played all year by far. So last year and that game, your point is off

This year, you are right. This has been a shit show. My only defense of this season is if we had this QB situation last year, I think we start that season 0 and 3 and then who knows how the season would have gone.

I dont see coaching being much different than last year. We were trash the first 6 games last year, worse than this season, the difference is we had a legit qb last year and not this one
 
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Get Nasty

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I think the only reason we were in the game in the Fiesta Bowl was because Freeman was coaching. That was the best game we played all year by far. So last year and that game, your point is off

This year, you are right. This has been a shit show. My only defense of this season is if we had this QB situation last year, I think we start that season 0 and 3 and then who knows how the season would have gone.

I dont see coaching being much different than last year. We were trash the first 6 games last year, worse than this season, the difference is we had a legit qb last year and not this one
it was the best HALF we played (except for last minute when it all began to fall apart) I can agree and BY FAR the worst half. OK state was not that good of an offense this year. They just simplified their game plan and pretty much threw it at lewis every time he had someone 1-1 or QB scrambled vs our lbs if nothing was there

2nd half not only could we not move the ball we almost gave up 400 yards of offense. inexcusable.

Our oline this year since second half of CAL is light years better than last year. Still not as good as they should be though.

I see coaching being significantly different. Coan played well vs FSU hitting a few shots and a blown coverage but he played absolutely terrible from then until the last 8 minutes of Virginia tech and moving forward. Kelly made the call to go to quick pass offense. I'm not a big kelly fan but he knows how to win games he should win. He was just terrible at some of his coaching hires. A few of freemans aren't panning out too well right now and Rees (jack's call) is just terrible as a coach more so than play caller.

We just had 100 yards first half vs a terrible stanford D.
 

Golson5

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it was the best HALF we played (except for last minute when it all began to fall apart) I can agree and BY FAR the worst half. OK state was not that good of an offense this year. They just simplified their game plan and pretty much threw it at lewis every time he had someone 1-1 or QB scrambled vs our lbs if nothing was there

2nd half not only could we not move the ball we almost gave up 400 yards of offense. inexcusable.

Our oline this year since second half of CAL is light years better than last year. Still not as good as they should be though.

I see coaching being significantly different. Coan played well vs FSU hitting a few shots and a blown coverage but he played absolutely terrible from then until the last 8 minutes of Virginia tech and moving forward. Kelly made the call to go to quick pass offense. I'm not a big kelly fan but he knows how to win games he should win. He was just terrible at some of his coaching hires. A few of freemans aren't panning out too well right now and Rees (jack's call) is just terrible as a coach more so than play caller.

We just had 100 yards first half vs a terrible stanford D.
We are 5 and 1 with Coan as our QB this year.

Put Pyne and Bucnher on last years team we may have started 2 and 4
 

Patrirish

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Lou Holtz started 1-4 and finished 4-2 with the two being close losses to ranked opponents.
Brian Kelly started 1-3 and went 7-2 the rest of the way I believe.
Holtz’s teams played competitive right from the start, Kelly had some bad losses.
So how will this team finish? To me that is more important than how they have started. If this staff can’t find its footing and come together down the stretch then that will be a good indication that Freeman was a the wrong choice.
Terrible and highly flawed analogy !

Holtz inherited a poor team that Faust had coached for 5 years, Freeman inherited a good team with a terrific 5 year record
 

NDinNJ

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They were 5-6 the year before.

Can anyone give me an example of a great coaches first year that was far worse than the year prior to taking over.

Freeman took over a team that was good solid/good coaching away from winning the fiesta bowl. Now this year like freeman said, can't even think about bowl games when you've lost to marshall and a terrible stanford team. We have to make improvements just to make a bowl game.

let that sink in. We need to make major improvements just to comfortably make a bowl game this year.
Kirby Smart. Mark Richt last season at UGA went 10-3. Kirby followed that up with a 7-5 record.

Btw Kirby won a national championship last year, his 6th year as HC at UGA.
 
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BGI User 756

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Terrible and highly flawed analogy !

Holtz inherited a poor team that Faust had coached for 5 years, Freeman inherited a good team with a terrific 5 year record
Holtz inherited a significant amount of finesse talent that was in wrong positions.

Brown, Beurlein, Streeter, Green, Johnson, Francisco, Heck, Stams, Williams, Carney, Kleine are just names off the top of my head that earned NFL paychecks
 
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IrishBeer

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Holtz fixed a broken program. Stop comparing Marcus Freeman to legendary coaches like Saban and Dabo. It makes you look stupid.
 
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Golson5

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Holtz fixed a broken program. Stop comparing Marcus Freeman to legendary coaches like Saban and Dabo. It makes you look stupid.
Judging a coach after 6 games also makes people look stupid. Especially when you don't have a qb. Both look stupid
 

IrishBeer

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Judging a coach after 6 games also makes people look stupid. Especially when you don't have a qb. Both look stupid
Then everyone in all of ND nation is stupid according to you. He's being judged.
 

Get Nasty

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Kirby Smart. Mark Richt last season at UGA went 10-3. Kirby followed that up with a 7-5 record.

Btw Kirby won a national championship last year, his 6th year as HC at UGA.
Fair, finished second in the country thr following year.
Finished season 8-5 with bowl win
 

ftnfan62

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Lou was great, but I believe he had a future NFL QB I’m Beuerleine. He did play a brutal schedule, lost to all ranked teams but USC and a few unranked. But you could see the diff immediately in his team from the previous coach.

Put Steve B on this team I’m pretty sure your 5-1 or 6-0.

Throw in Tim Brown who was just a slightly better returner than Joseph and his 1 yard average. So tough to compare.
 

NDblitz

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I think the only reason we were in the game in the Fiesta Bowl was because Freeman was coaching. That was the best game we played all year by far. So last year and that game, your point is off

This year, you are right. This has been a shit show. My only defense of this season is if we had this QB situation last year, I think we start that season 0 and 3 and then who knows how the season would have gone.

I dont see coaching being much different than last year. We were trash the first 6 games last year, worse than this season, the difference is we had a legit qb last year and not this one
To this day I say I can’t believe those guys were 11-1
 

NDDadx3

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What would you say is Holtz’s worst loss? Also look at all the ranked teams Lou played in his first season. I’m actually getting numb to these losses. Connecticut, Cuse ( senior day snowballs), Navy, Marshall, This Stanford team, South Florida, and northwestern.
Holtz lost at home to unranked Pitt 10-9. Pitt was coming off a loss to Temple.

Other than that game, all Holtz losses were competitive games vs ranked teams (Mich, Mich St, LSU, Bama, Penn State)

Holtz managed a few bad losses as well, getting shutout by Miami, blowing a big lead at home to Tennessee, losing to BYU and Air Force … bad losses happen sometimes when you put 18-22 year olds on the field.
 

Patrirish

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Holtz inherited a significant amount of finesse talent that was in wrong positions.

Brown, Beurlein, Streeter, Green, Johnson, Francisco, Heck, Stams, Williams, Carney, Kleine are just names off the top of my head that earned NFL paychecks
Stams and Carney were not on the 1986 team
 

raulduke_007

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Terrible and highly flawed analogy !

Holtz inherited a poor team that Faust had coached for 5 years, Freeman inherited a good team with a terrific 5 year record
Faust put together 3 straight years of of #1 or #2 recruiting classes.
 

Patrirish

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Faust put together 3 straight years of of #1 or #2 recruiting classes.
As the great American philosopher, Bill Parcels, stated, you are who your record says you are.

if Holtz inherited such a talented team why did Holtz have a losing record at 5-6 in his first year ?

And only 8-4 in his second year with Faust’s great recruiting classes ?

When Holtz finally won big, two of Faust’s recruiting classes were gone.
 

deadmanramsey

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Did Holtz inherit a team with 54 wins in a five year span and a top 5 pre-season ranking? No? Then the comparison is totally invalid. Patience was expected for he and Kelly, since they were tasked with rebuilding the program given their failed predecessors.

For Freeman, this was supposed to be a passing of the baton with the expectation to keep the good times going. Well, good times it ain't. I cannot stomach watching anymore of this garbage and have no intention of watching any more games this year.
 
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IrishBeer

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Fair, finished second in the country thr following year.
Finished season 8-5 with bowl win
Comparing an SEC schedule to losing to a MAC program and a Stanford team that hasn't beaten an FBS team in 12 games? This happens every week. ND fans slowly forget just how horrible the coaching staff is. Our next major loss to an unranked team and everyone will return to meltdown mode. At least consistency dislike the coaches. The bipolar around here is epic.
 

Golson5

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Comparing an SEC schedule to losing to a MAC program and a Stanford team that hasn't beaten an FBS team in 12 games? This happens every week. ND fans slowly forget just how horrible the coaching staff is. Our next major loss to an unranked team and everyone will return to meltdown mode. At least consistency dislike the coaches. The bipolar around here is epic.
Georgia lost to Vanderbilt his first year
 

IrishBeer

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You said STANFORD as well. PAC school. NOT MAC.
Ok. Yes, we lost to Stanford. That sucked.

What's Smart's equivalent to Marshall?

Are you confident Freeman is the next Smart, Dabo, Saban? It seems you do since you bring this comparison up constantly. That's a fairly major speculation considering his start and the fact that only 1% of coaches reach that level. Call me crazy, I'm not as convinced as you that the deer in head lights that I threw my full support behind is going to be better than 99% of college coaches.
 

Golson5

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Ok. Yes, we lost to Stanford. That sucked.

What's Smart's equivalent to Marshall?

Are you confident Freeman is the next Smart, Dabo, Saban? It seems you do since you bring this comparison up constantly. That's a fairly major speculation considering his start and the fact that only 1% of coaches reach that level. Call me crazy, I'm not as convinced as you that the deer in head lights that I threw my full support behind is going to be better than 99% of college coaches.
I dont know what he is going to be. I'm hopeful but I really dont know. I just laugh at people like yourself who act like they know already what he is going to be. You don't but you act like you do. I think that is laughable.

He could be the next Smart. People forget fans at Georgia used to talk so much shit on him because they thought he was a terrible in game coach but he could recruit his ass off. Or he could be the next Weis or whatever other name you want to use.

Fact is we just don't know yet. Having no qb skews what he is because it's hard to win without a qb
 

IrishBeer

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I dont know what he is going to be. I'm hopeful but I really dont know. I just laugh at people like yourself who act like they know already what he is going to be. You don't but you act like you do. I think that is laughable.

He could be the next Smart. People forget fans at Georgia used to talk so much shit on him because they thought he was a terrible in game coach but he could recruit his ass off. Or he could be the next Weis or whatever other name you want to use.

Fact is we just don't know yet. Having no qb skews what he is because it's hard to win without a qb
It's more laughable to compare him to the 1% of legendary coaches in today's game. Far more laughable actually.
 

Golson5

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It's more laughable to compare him to the 1% of legendary coaches in today's game. Far more laughable actually.
I'm not comparing him to Smart. I'm using him as an example just like I used Weis

Your lack of comprehension is laughable
 
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