If read Tom Lemming, Lou S, or the rest of the Baghdad Bobs on the premium board. The Irish have a tremendous haul. To the recruit guys, what’s a fair non homer assessment of the next haul?
Next Years Recruits
- Thread starter HarlemIrish
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Par for the course! Really good players. A couple studs and a slew of NFL types if they develop. A top 10 type of overall class...
That said, a few that will get rolled like the 2012, 2017 (Miami) and 2018 group. 1, 5 star player (Kyle Hamilton), at a non premium position , among them... No other top 100 players in the class.
A Trevor Lawrence? No. A Tee Higgins? No. A Justyn Ross? No. A Mitch Hyatt? No. A Christian Wilkins or a Dexter Lawrence? No. Simmonds? No.
That's an honest assessment. Anybody who argues that has no credibility until the talent gap isn't obvious and evientn on the football field when ND plays those teams. You'll see it at Georgia next year as well if they all return as expected. ND recruited a really good class that is a long way from the groups that Alabama, Georgia, Clemson and Texas A&M recruited.
ND is composite ranked 14th right now and they typically slide once NSD comes around because most of the elite kids wait all the way until NSD before choosing one of the top tier programs to join.
This is not a top 10 overall class and it isn't a class just a lil bit away from Clemson/Texas A&M/Georgia/Alabama, etc.
This narrative has to stop. ND is multiple tiers away from the top like they have been much of the last half decade.
And they will likely finish somewhere in the ~15th range according to 24/7 composite rankings by NSD.
This is not a top 10 overall class and it isn't a class just a lil bit away from Clemson/Texas A&M/Georgia/Alabama, etc.
This narrative has to stop. ND is multiple tiers away from the top like they have been much of the last half decade.
And they will likely finish somewhere in the ~15th range according to 24/7 composite rankings by NSD.
Recruiting is not good enough to win a championship. Period.
Then let's give up. Shut down the football program.
You two are so alike. If you had your way there would be no entrance requirements, no going to class, just focusing on football.
Many of those elite recruits cannot qualify to get into ND and most have absolutely no intention of getting an education. Remember Cardale (as dumb as a box of rocks) Jones? As he stated "I didn't come to Ohio State to go to class. I came to play football".
They simply want to get ready for the NFL. That's not what ND stands for.
Why can't a serious Irish fan inquire about who's coming to play? I'm glad some posters who are into recruiting post a non homer legitimate narrative on the recruits. It's clear after last night that nothing has changed from the arse beating in 2012. Brian Kelly is doing the best he can with the tools given to him. I give him a A minus solid B + for his coaching this year. He simply doesn't have the horses to compete at the next level. I personally would rather lose to Northwestern at this point then show up on a National Stage and get flat out embarrassed.
Some teams ahead of us like PSU. Oregon., Michigan and Texas A&M recruited well but had off years. We kould close w Foskey and Turner. I say we need another top cb to replace Love.
This is the worst attitude that has emerged from yesterday and others have repeated it. Just because some of us are, and have been, calling it like it is regarding the current talent disparity, none of us are suggesting ND give up... We just want you to rework your expectations unless / until ND does something that allows them to recruit like they did under Lou Holtz.
Agreed, but if you think their talking about recruiting is beating a dead horse, what do you think your post is? In reality ND does not and can not recruit at the highest level. Shut down the program? No, accept ND for who they are, you bet, we all need to do this.
Ya tell that to Saban and Dabo. Yes you have to have coaching also. But I think the evidence is beyond glaring without those stud elite players no matter who's coaching you will not get to that tier one status of Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, and Ohio State. Period, end of the story
That's what it is, it seems well be a top ten team who occasionally will get invited to the dance then get bit slapped when we run into these tier one teams. Unless we make changes to allowing these elite players we are who we are.
I don't think this is ALL about a talent gap. They were a better team, talent-wise, no doubt, but so was the 2015 Clemson team we nearly beat at home. This was also about a coaching gap. Chip Long laid a giant egg yesterday and Kelly's team came out tight, making mistakes. The offense was terrible. Because of the lack of imagination in play calling I now have all kinds of questions: is Ian the answer? Does Phil get a real chance to start (Ian missed another deep ball we really needed). The defense played championship level (until Love went out.) The offense looked terrible -- why no packages for Wimbush when it was clear Ian couldn't be Ian -- why not look back to the Michigan game and let our most athletic guy try to make some plays?
Now, the one place were we can complete with anyone is along the offensive line -- and this year's line was the worst of the last five-seven years. (Which is why I was shocked we went undefeated.) I'm not saying they were bad, just that the other years we had several NFL guys playing championship football. This year it just wasn't the case. Losing three NFL players (I include Bars) two of them all-pro-ers is hard to make up and it showed yesterday and throughout the year. Even with Dexter we had trouble running it against most teams. That will change. The problem is, I just don't see any playmakers in the mold of Fuller or Eifert or Floyd, Tate or hell, Dexter or Riddick on this team or coming in.... That is where we need the kind of talent Clemson has -- but even then, the coaches need to do a better job.
Kelly seemed to say it in his presser -- he said the coaches are young and learned a lot. I'm tired of getting embarrassed but I have to continue to hope. We had a perfect storm schedule wise this year (Florida State, Stanford, USC had down years) -- and that won't be the case next year.
Now, the one place were we can complete with anyone is along the offensive line -- and this year's line was the worst of the last five-seven years. (Which is why I was shocked we went undefeated.) I'm not saying they were bad, just that the other years we had several NFL guys playing championship football. This year it just wasn't the case. Losing three NFL players (I include Bars) two of them all-pro-ers is hard to make up and it showed yesterday and throughout the year. Even with Dexter we had trouble running it against most teams. That will change. The problem is, I just don't see any playmakers in the mold of Fuller or Eifert or Floyd, Tate or hell, Dexter or Riddick on this team or coming in.... That is where we need the kind of talent Clemson has -- but even then, the coaches need to do a better job.
Kelly seemed to say it in his presser -- he said the coaches are young and learned a lot. I'm tired of getting embarrassed but I have to continue to hope. We had a perfect storm schedule wise this year (Florida State, Stanford, USC had down years) -- and that won't be the case next year.
IIO- what is your solution to our recruiting challenges? You said it last night, and I agree: The 5* kids from the South aren't coming here. What do you suggest we do, to counteract that?
IIO, if you recall, there were a LOT of off-field problems with some of those recruits under Holtz. It's not like everything was perfect. Yes, he did deal with it but those guys brought issues nonetheless.
At that time, ND could sell recruits about being on TV every week and that was clearly an advantage. That was then; this is now. All teams are on some network each and every week. Plus social media allows kids to know so much more about any team they're looking at. Again, they didn't have that in the past.
Some of you all must HONESTLY not pay attention to football. I follow recruiting, and a bunch of the incoming recruits had multiple offers from schools you deem “elite” (if you want to argue, go look at the offers of the incoming class)...there also is such a thing as timing. Clemson has been good the last 5 to 6 years, but they were on the fence for the previous 8 to 10. I make no excuse for the performance in the semi-final, and I am an absolute realist. That game wasn’t about the talent on the field. The score 3-3 until the last 8 minutes of the first half. Love leaving did have an effect on the secondary continuity...and if you don’t recognize this, you should refrain from commenting. I understand the history makes it seem just like the same thing, but this game was a bit different. I won’t go into breaking down all of what I saw that contributed to their performance, however there is such a thing as a bad game. They had I injuries, tough calls, and some sub-par play (recipe for a loss). Yes, I know...how many times will they have a “bad game” on the big stage? I remember the 2012 team, and the others....this was not the same, Clemson even said the big plays gave them momentum, ND never caught any. Clemson did not control from start to finish...coaching decisions had a lot to do with their meltdown. Yes, Clemson has a few more horses, but like I said...just these last two classes show promise they can keep progressing...if you feel what I’m saying is incorrect, and want to question, ponder this. In the last two classes, 80 percent of the recruits had offers from the “elite” schools some of you day we need to catch up to. Maybe they develop them better, but there isn’t the glaring disparity some of you “fans” seem to claim. I say all of this while I’m watching this Georgia team that I’ve seen some say ND will lose to badly next year down to 8-4 Texas by two scores (now say Texas has comparable recruiting to Georgia).
And one thing I did forget to mention....that a good majority of people tend to forget, there has been considerable talent dismissed from the team in recent years...three of which would have been STARTERS this year, and most definitely would have been game changers (Kevin Stepherson would have lit up most if not all the teams we played this year)
What your missing about the kids that had offers from elite schools is that teams offer a bunch of kids at each position so that they don't get left with their pants around their knees if their top guy(s) go to one of the other elite recruiting programs instead... They don't offer 10 defensive ends and value them all equally. They offer 10 guys, and pursue the top of their board, while maintaining enough of a relationship, via an offer, to the guys further down their board, in case they are forced to take them later.
What has happened to Notre Dame is that they end up landing a lot of guys that were #3 or #4 on their own board, which is actually pretty good... The problem is that they are actually #7 or #8 on Alabama's board, and the talent gap between the guy the #1 guy and the #8 guy on the board, especially as it relates to upside, is considerable.
So when Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State get a vast number of their plan A guys, and Notre Dame's class finishes ranked 13th-14th, its because they got a lot of really good players, who were Alabama's plan B and plan C guys... When 38/44 players in your 2-deep fit that description and you have to play one of those teams head-to-head, capped of by the fact that their coaching staff is better than yours... You get what we've seen in Notre Dame's last 3 opportunities to beat one of those perennial powers in the a Bowl Game... Eviscerated by Alabama (2012), Ohio State (2015) and Clemson (2018).
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More stupid excuses and holier than thou bs. Notre Dame is too good for an elite football program.
I'm not sure it's being "holier-than-thou" to wonder if it's realistic for ND to land some of these top recruits, given ND's current admission requirements.
Of the composite top 100 recruits the last 3 years, how many would qualify to attend Notre Dame? Not saying that to be arrogant. If the university has academic requirements that eliminate half the list from being eligible, it doesn't matter how great at recruiting the coaches are, does it? Heck, maybe all of them qualify to attend Notre Dame -- I honestly don't know.
Can't some of the star gazers supply a realistic short list of top recruits who would qualify? How did Weis bring in top classes? Do the academic standards need to be changed/modified? By how much?
Maybe the answers to these questions could lead to some realistic things ND can do to close the gap.
Of the composite top 100 recruits the last 3 years, how many would qualify to attend Notre Dame? Not saying that to be arrogant. If the university has academic requirements that eliminate half the list from being eligible, it doesn't matter how great at recruiting the coaches are, does it? Heck, maybe all of them qualify to attend Notre Dame -- I honestly don't know.
Can't some of the star gazers supply a realistic short list of top recruits who would qualify? How did Weis bring in top classes? Do the academic standards need to be changed/modified? By how much?
Maybe the answers to these questions could lead to some realistic things ND can do to close the gap.
Without a doubt, Stepherson would have been the legit field stretcher we have missed since Fuller left.
Better recruiting allows you to overcome foreseeable program attrition. Stepherson was an unbelievable waste of talent. Kid could have been so special.
The gazers want ND to lower the standards. Not happening nor should it. As BK has said ND shops down a different aisle!
ND doesnt need a bunch of illiterate dudes, they need some mean spirited dudes. 22 Quentin Nelsons, is that possible 
. A couple junk yard dogs who would rip their own arm off if it meant winning a game. A 6'2'' WR who can run like the wind and catch the ball. A LB who scares teams into not running the ball near him. A safety with range and hits like a hammer.
. A couple junk yard dogs who would rip their own arm off if it meant winning a game. A 6'2'' WR who can run like the wind and catch the ball. A LB who scares teams into not running the ball near him. A safety with range and hits like a hammer.Like a broken record. Is the ND degree 1988 worthless? What is the demarcation line where the ND degree is looked upon greatly by the lace curtain Irish? 1998?2005?2018?
Pretty sure those kids had to go to real classes and God forbid take 1 year of a foreign language. Ole Miss wants you
How does one know if Lenzy or Keys doesn't become that playmaker? Nobody predicted Fuller that I know of.
ND doesnt need a bunch of illiterate dudes, they need some mean spirited dudes. 22 Quentin Nelsons, is that possible
How many Q. Nelsons were there in last 10 years?
Nice avoidance of question. Once again, Was the ND degree worthless under Lou?
The football players admitted today are way below the average student academically than they were under Lou.
Go root for Ole Miss.
Standards are good. Notre Dame does it right!
Well the only way to fix that problem is changing admissions policy, not require the players to go to class, give meaningless degrees, and let all the troublemakers stay on the team like they do at all the other schools that do win the national championships. Problem is is not going to happen, so the fact that Notre Dame went undefeated during the regular season is a testament to the school, players and coaching staff. Yeah, we'd all like to win a National Championship, but given the choice, I'll hire a Notre Dame graduate before I'll hire a graduate from Alabama or Clemson with all things being equal.
Don't get me wrong, I'm VERY happy to get the win, but I am concerned about 22 one-armed guys winning the next game or two afterwards.ND doesnt need a bunch of illiterate dudes, they need some mean spirited dudes. 22 Quentin Nelsons, is that possible
