ND Should Be Patient With Their Recruiting

[IrishInOntario]

ND is currently sitting at 15 commits in the 2019 class and projections have them taking between 21-23 players. Remaining needs seem to be...

1 QB (only if it's a top guy)
1 OL (only if it's a top guy)
1 Rover
1 CB
1 WDE
1-2 WR

Looking at ND's current recruiting board, a lot of the top end talent has committed elsewhere, and with 6-8 spots left in the class, I'd like to see them be very picky with who they take. They need to spend the remaing time during the summer ramping up interest from a couple studs and if they start strong, they need to start targetting quality players that are currently committed elsewhere and who might be wavering.

Of the current list of players that ND has already received a visit from and who are strongly considering the Irish, SDE David Ojabo, Rover targets Tristan Sinclair and Asa Turner, offensive line targets Saleem Wormley and Walter Rouse and Quarterback Brendon Clark are really the only prospects that I'd accept a commitment from right now. I'd like to see that 5th OL spot get locked down, a rover commitment and then the staff needs to re-evaluate their board. If ND can go out and start 4-0 or 5-1, they're going to peak the interest of some top end guys. I'd like to see 3 or 4 spots saved to go big game hunting between October and February.

 

[stu4don]

Agreed. With all the attrition, don't we need another RB?

 

[stu4don]

IIO -- just to clarify, are you saying that we shouldn't hurry to sign the guys you mention. I know you like Sinclair but only Wormley is a 4*....

Shouldn't we aim higher?

 

[NDAFArly]

IIO -- just to clarify, are you saying that we shouldn't hurry to sign the guys you mention. I know you like Sinclair but only Wormley is a 4*....

Shouldn't we aim higher?

Sinclair will finish ranked much higher. He had an amazing performance & testing at the big regional camps & got invited to the big national events. His recruitment is bigger because most thought he was a Stanford lock.

 

[NDAFArly]

Agreed. With all the attrition, don't we need another RB?

With changes made, ND has six guys with 3+ years of eligibility left. So they don’t need a guy just for numbers.

 

[justified1]

Ontario

With the targets known, how do you see ND finishing with an ave composite rating of .92 or greater ? This was basically a fait accompli by Friedman and we are all subjugated to Friedman. (ND will take 6 maybe 7 more notwithstanding the potential academic casualties)

 

[echowaker]

you have to keep working it hard, not only the non-committed but the verbals too. until signing day you can't bank on anything.

 

[nemeth#5]

You have to expect a few de-commitments as well right? Happens every year... for every team... kids change their mind.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

IIO you wouldn't take Woodi Washington at CB right now?

 

[IrishInOntario]

IIO you wouldn't take Woodi Washington at CB right now?

I would. I'd take Isaiah Rutherford as well. I just don't think either of them are even close to the point where they'd commit to ND as of right now.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Ontario

With the targets known, how do you see ND finishing with an ave composite rating of .92 or greater ? This was basically a fait accompli by Friedman and we are all subjugated to Friedman. (ND will take 6 maybe 7 more notwithstanding the potential academic casualties)

I don't. I don't see the "star power" left in the class to get there. They'd need guys like Hamilton and Kristofic to make big jumps in the ratings, as well as a few top 100 guys to become suddenly interested in ND.

 

[justified1]

Agree. Each class targets identified team weaknesses, then targets upgrading the overall starting units.
This class looks like it will do both. I don’t think RB is a weakness as much as it is inexperienced.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

I would. I'd take Isaiah Rutherford as well. I just don't think either of them are even close to the point where they'd commit to ND as of right now.

Sure I don't think either are close or even leaning, just curious about where you prioritized the CB list.

 

[justified1]

Hamilton might go to 5.8, Osita and NaNa to 5.9. Those are the likey commits to get bumped up.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Hamilton might go to 5.8, Osita and NaNa to 5.9. Those are the likey commits to get bumped up.

Kristofic should get a bump to at least 5.8 too.

 

[zonairish]

Kristofic should get a bump to at least 5.8 too.

Some of our guys are underrated so it helps 53 narrative. darn

 

[justified1]

Some of our guys are underrated so it helps 53 narrative. darn

Fans usually think that.

 

[Telx1]

Fans usually think that.

That’s true, and I think the narrative that players are downgraded or frozen at a lower than deserved rating once they commit to ND is silly. I do think the three recruits listed above, NaNa and Kristofic and Hamilton and seriously underrated and I fully expect them to be raised. Not sure about Osita. I know I would be very happy if we get Three star Ojabo and Sinclair, and four star Wormley. I’d take these three in a heartbeat.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Fans usually think that.

I think that it's probably true of just about every recruiting class in the country that they have underrated and overrated prospects. Furthermore, it is impossible to measure intangibles (such as work ethic or toughness) that can allow a player to over achieve relative to his athletic traits. Rankings also tend to help a kid who is under developed physically and needs time to reach his potential... Here is an interesting thought. Who do you think is more valuable to his program in the long run more times than not.

A) a college ready high 4 or 5 star player, who comes in physically and technically developed, is able to get into the rotation as a freshman, splits starting reps as a sophomore and is the clear starter as a junior, before leaving for the draft.

B) an underdeveloped high three star or low four star who red shirts as a freshman, sees limited snaps as a sohphomore, is firmly in the rotation as a junior and starts as a senior. He then has the 5th year option as well.

Certainly you want a portion of your roster to be made up of players from the first category, but a large portion of them to come from the second category as well if you want program stability and continued success, but don't have the continued ability to recruit like Alabama or Ohio State each year.

 

[justified1]

I think that it's probably true of just about every recruiting class in the country that they have underrated and overrated prospects. Furthermore, it is impossible to measure intangibles (such as work ethic or toughness) that can allow a player to over achieve relative to his athletic traits. Rankings also tend to help a kid who is under developed physically and needs time to reach his potential... Here is an interesting thought. Who do you think is more valuable to his program in the long run more times than not.

A) a college ready high 4 or 5 star player, who comes in physically and technically developed, is able to get into the rotation as a freshman, splits starting reps as a sophomore and is the clear starter as a junior, before leaving for the draft.

B) an underdeveloped high three star or low four star who red shirts as a freshman, sees limited snaps as a sohphomore, is firmly in the rotation as a junior and starts as a senior. He then has the 5th year option as well.

Certainly you want a portion of your roster to be made up of players from the first category, but a large portion of them to come from the second category as well if you want program stability and continued success, but don't have the continued ability to recruit like Alabama or Ohio State each year.

You catch the mess over on the Rivals USC board? Freakin reporter tweets the kids commitment before the kid sets up his announcement. “Breaking News” was the driver; except there was no news.
Reminds me of the Vanderdosen’t mess. Wonder how this kid will handle this betrayal.

 

[hfhmilkman]

A few comments about recruiting. If I have confidence in the coaching staff, I don't care what the agencies say about a player. The agencies cannot analyze an individual nearly as well as staff worth their salt.

The 2nd item is that stars are based on NFL potential not value to a college team. There are certain kinds of tweeners that at their physical measurables are not useful to an NFL team but are immensely valuable for a college team. The best FB in the country will most likely never be more than a 3 star. But if you are power two 2 back team, you don't care. If your defensive scheme requires a Viper like WLB who is faster but smaller, than the individual you like may be a 3 star. Some teams pick the players that match their scheme which is how they are sometimes successful against teams with on paper better recruiting classes.

 

[NDIRISH53]

#5StarsMatter

 

[justified1]

A few comments about recruiting. If I have confidence in the coaching staff, I don't care what the agencies say about a player. The agencies cannot analyze an individual nearly as well as staff worth their salt.

The 2nd item is that stars are based on NFL potential not value to a college team. There are certain kinds of tweeners that at their physical measurables are not useful to an NFL team but are immensely valuable for a college team. The best FB in the country will most likely never be more than a 3 star. But if you are power two 2 back team, you don't care. If your defensive scheme requires a Viper like WLB who is faster but smaller, than the individual you like may be a 3 star. Some teams pick the players that match their scheme which is how they are sometimes successful against teams with on paper better recruiting classes.

Good points, for every Julio Jones, there is the kind of kd as you describe. Which one is easier to pick/find out of the talent pool? And for the Q Nelson’s there are the Matt Carufel’s (the Staff liked both).
Judgments are really projections of the future abilities, based upon the “now” vitals and stats. Some pan out and many more do not. That is what happens when you try to predict teens’ behavior.

 

[Telx1]

ND is currently sitting at 15 commits in the 2019 class and projections have them taking between 21-23 players. Remaining needs seem to be...

1 QB (only if it's a top guy)
1 OL (only if it's a top guy)
1 Rover
1 CB
1 WDE
1-2 WR

Looking at ND's current recruiting board, a lot of the top end talent has committed elsewhere, and with 6-8 spots left in the class, I'd like to see them be very picky with who they take. They need to spend the remaing time during the summer ramping up interest from a couple studs and if they start strong, they need to start targetting quality players that are currently committed elsewhere and who might be wavering.

Of the current list of players that ND has already received a visit from and who are strongly considering the Irish, SDE David Ojabo, Rover targets Tristan Sinclair and Asa Turner, offensive line targets Saleem Wormley and Walter Rouse and Quarterback Brendon Clark are really the only prospects that I'd accept a commitment from right now. I'd like to see that 5th OL spot get locked down, a rover commitment and then the staff needs to re-evaluate their board. If ND can go out and start 4-0 or 5-1, they're going to peak the interest of some top end guys. I'd like to see 3 or 4 spots saved to go big game hunting between October and February.

IIO... recently read that ND is no longer the lead for Ojabo, who fell in Love with Michigan. Also of note, read where ND has cooled on Wormley, and told him so, while they have turned their focus to Rouse, whom they really like, who has the size to play inside or out, where Wormley is inside only. You were the first That I’ve read to mention Rouse a while back, and would be interested in your assessment of strengths and developmental needs, etc...

 

[justified1]

That’s true, and I think the narrative that players are downgraded or frozen at a lower than deserved rating once they commit to ND is silly. I do think the three recruits listed above, NaNa and Kristofic and Hamilton and seriously underrated and I fully expect them to be raised. Not sure about Osita. I know I would be very happy if we get Three star Ojabo and Sinclair, and four star Wormley. I’d take these three in a heartbeat.

NaNa has gotten a rating boost and at composite .95 is about where he should be.
I actually think Osita is the gem of the defensive class.

 

[IrishInOntario]

NaNa has gotten a rating boost and at composite .95 is about where he should be.
I actually think Osita is the gem of the defensive class.

Personally, I think on the defensive side of the ball it goes...

1. Kyle Hamilton
2. Osita Ekwonu
3. Nana Osafo-Mensah

And none of then would have been in my top 3 of the 2018 class ahead of Shayne Simon, Jayson Ademilola or Derrik Allen.

 

[justified1]

Do you wonder about Hamilton? We all seem to of the same opinion, but the services have seen him and while his ranking improved he is still not among the top 5 at his position. The other thing is where is the usual competition for him?

 

[TXND30]

Personally, I think on the defensive side of the ball it goes...

1. Kyle Hamilton
2. Osita Ekwonu
3. Nana Osafo-Mensah

And none of then would have been in my top 3 of the 2018 class ahead of Shayne Simon, Jayson Ademilola or Derrik Allen.

IIO,

Is that a talent assessment or physically ready to compete?

 

[IowaIrish1]

Personally, I think on the defensive side of the ball it goes...

1. Kyle Hamilton
2. Osita Ekwonu
3. Nana Osafo-Mensah

And none of then would have been in my top 3 of the 2018 class ahead of Shayne Simon, Jayson Ademilola or Derrik Allen.

Nana hits a need so I'd put him right towards the top. Jayson is a dang freak and can't wait to watch him dominate, but he's not a edge rusher that we lack, though if you watch his tape from camps he's going to provide some pass rush. Both Nana and Osita are Bama players if they want. That's good enough for me.

 

[IrishInOntario]

That's my best guess at who ends up having the best careers at Notre Dame and graduates as the most productive player(s) in their respective classes.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Ademilola, Simon and Allen could have went anywhere they wanted. They were pursued HEAVILY by everyone. Jayson and Derrik could have went to Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, Ohio State, USC, Michigan, Florida State or anywhere else they wanted to. The only reason Simon was missing an Alabama and Georgia offer is that they play a 3-4 defense, with big outside backers, and Simon is a SAM / Rover all the way. He's a perfect system fit at Notre Dame and would have been in any 4-3 defense.

 

[NDIRISH53]

Ademilola, Simon and Allen could have went anywhere they wanted. They were pursued HEAVILY by everyone. Jayson and Derrik could have went to Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, Ohio State, USC, Michigan, Florida State or anywhere else they wanted to. The only reason Simon was missing an Alabama and Georgia offer is that they play a 3-4 defense, with big outside backers, and Simon is a SAM / Rover all the way. He's a perfect system fit at Notre Dame and would have been in any 4-3 defense.

God bless St. Peter's Prep. Jayson Ade & Simon probably contribute a lot as a freshman. I think Simon has a solid career and will be a multi year starter who just gets the job done and people don't even have to worry about, all while making key plays on the ball. Mark my word Bo Bauer will be the most loved prospect in this class. He will be Manti like!

 

[IrishInOntario]

I also love Jayson Ademilola's ability to rush the passer from the interior. He brings that Sheldon Day burst, with advanced technique. I definitely bet he plays as a freshman, like Sheldon did. To me he's a pure 3-Tech though. I don't want to see him wasting time as a SDE. He's 6'2 and should be 290lbs as a freshman. Get him into your first 4 games and see what you have in him. He needs to be 295-300lbs and STRONG by his sophomore year. ND would like him to split reps with Myron as Tillery's replacement.

 

[IrishInOntario]

God bless St. Peter's Prep. Jayson Ade & Simon probably contribute a lot as a freshman. I think Simon has a solid career and will be a multi year starter who just gets the job done and people don't even have to worry about, all while making key plays on the ball. Mark my word Bo Bauer will be the most loved prospect in this class. He will be Manti like!

I want to believe that, I just don't know that Bo runs well enough. I'm sincerely hoping he does because man do I love the attitude he arrives to the football at, but I tend to think at 240lbs he might be limited athletically. I really hope I'm wrong.

The two guys that I think could just be superstars in the class are Phil Jurkovec and Kevin Austin. Defensively, I think Derrik Allen is a "Dawg"... The first time I heard the story of him pushing his teammate and getting emotional after the guy cost him an interception, I was smiling ear-to-ear. I love a kid who comes from an Army household and who cares about football like the kids that go to Georgia and Alabama... Oh yeah he's a 6'1, 205lb safety coming out of high school. Yes Please.

And my sleeper in that class is a Tommy Tremble. I think he could be a MAJOR weapon for ND as the split tight end. He's not your 6'6 traditional tight end. He's 6'3.5-6'4 and he weighs about 225lbs right now. I think at the end of the day he'll be 240lbs and he runs better than the majority of ND's receiving corps. Despite a lack fanfare (because of his rankings) he has a great offer list, and could wind up being who ND thought they were getting in Aliz'e Mack.

 

[NDIRISH53]

I want to believe that, I just don't know that Bo runs well enough. I'm sincerely hoping he does because man do I love the attitude he arrives to the football at, but I tend to think at 240lbs he might be limited athletically. I really hope I'm wrong.

The two guys that I think could just be superstars in the class are Phil Jurkovec and Kevin Austin. Defensively, I think Derrik Allen is a "Dawg"... The first time I heard the story of him pushing his teammate and getting emotional after the guy cost him an interception, I was smiling ear-to-ear. I love a kid who comes from an Army household and who cares about football like the kids that go to Georgia and Alabama... Oh yeah he's a 6'1, 205lb safety coming out of high school. Yes Please.

And my sleeper in that class is a Tommy Tremble. I think he could be a MAJOR weapon for ND as the split tight end. He's not your 6'6 traditional tight end. He's 6'3.5-6'4 and he weighs about 225lbs right now. I think at the end of the day he'll be 240lbs and he runs better than the majority of ND's receiving corps. Despite a lack fanfare (because of his rankings) he has a great offer list, and could wind up being who ND thought they were getting in Aliz'e Mack.

Bauer may lack top speed but he does show good sideline to sideline range in high school, probably not great coverage range though. He has extremely explosive qualities about him and can accelerate quickly. BK has stated he is the most advanced and dedicated of the freshmen in the weight room. He just has future captain written all over him. He is a perfect mix of explosiveness instincts and blue collar toughness.

I agree on Tremble, and obviously Austin who will be the best offensive player on the staff. I am cautiously optimistic about Jurkovec. I'm not pleased with the QB development in BK's tenure, and he does have a lot of things to clean up. The thing that threw me off about him was when he was mic'd up in the army all American game, he was not doing a good job leading the huddle, and was almost quiet in play calling and pre snap. I know it's an all American game, but that did throw me off.

 

[amazingreis]

ND is currently sitting at 15 commits in the 2019 class and projections have them taking between 21-23 players. Remaining needs seem to be...

1 QB (only if it's a top guy)
1 OL (only if it's a top guy)
1 Rover
1 CB
1 WDE
1-2 WR

Looking at ND's current recruiting board, a lot of the top end talent has committed elsewhere, and with 6-8 spots left in the class, I'd like to see them be very picky with who they take. They need to spend the remaing time during the summer ramping up interest from a couple studs and if they start strong, they need to start targetting quality players that are currently committed elsewhere and who might be wavering.

Of the current list of players that ND has already received a visit from and who are strongly considering the Irish, SDE David Ojabo, Rover targets Tristan Sinclair and Asa Turner, offensive line targets Saleem Wormley and Walter Rouse and Quarterback Brendon Clark are really the only prospects that I'd accept a commitment from right now. I'd like to see that 5th OL spot get locked down, a rover commitment and then the staff needs to re-evaluate their board. If ND can go out and start 4-0 or 5-1, they're going to peak the interest of some top end guys. I'd like to see 3 or 4 spots saved to go big game hunting between October and February.

I

 

[amazingreis]

It's "pique" interest not "peak."

 

[IrishInOntario]

It's "pique" interest not "peak."

Yes it is. I appreciate the correction.

 

[justified1]

Ademilola, Simon and Allen could have went anywhere they wanted. They were pursued HEAVILY by everyone. Jayson and Derrik could have went to Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, Ohio State, USC, Michigan, Florida State or anywhere else they wanted to. The only reason Simon was missing an Alabama and Georgia offer is that they play a 3-4 defense, with big outside backers, and Simon is a SAM / Rover all the way. He's a perfect system fit at Notre Dame and would have been in any 4-3 defense.

Simon and Allen would not be takes by USC in ‘18. USC took 3 guys at each position that were better prospects. They would have loved the DT.

 

[NDIRISH53]

Simon and Allen would not be takes by USC in ‘18. USC took 3 guys at each position that were better prospects. They would have loved the DT.

lol I'm sure 2 top 100 recruits wouldn't be takes at the almighty USC