ND joins a conference, what’s the worst thing that would happen??
- Thread starter Zorich 88
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In 10 years we would be the same as the other non-state schools that push education. We could compete with Vanderbuilt, Northwestern, Stanford and Duke.
Would be great.
Would be great.
ND would lose its brand. It's identity. Also would likely lose its contract with NBC. It would take away from the mystique of ND being the only competitive school who can be independent and not have to follow the status quo.
With that said, it would be another tradition lost for CFB. That’s what pains me the most about the ever shifting landscape of CFB. Leaving conferences. Ending rivalries. NIL. No longer about loyalty and representing your school with pride.
CFB needs to hold onto as much tradition as it can and also figure out way to increase parity. Anyway, that's my rant. I don't ever want to see ND in a conference.
With that said, it would be another tradition lost for CFB. That’s what pains me the most about the ever shifting landscape of CFB. Leaving conferences. Ending rivalries. NIL. No longer about loyalty and representing your school with pride.
CFB needs to hold onto as much tradition as it can and also figure out way to increase parity. Anyway, that's my rant. I don't ever want to see ND in a conference.
We lose our uniqueness, our identity, our brand, our national appeal
We lose our own tv contact and become just like everyone else.
We become a regional school
We lose our independence and freedom amd power
We lose our own tv contact and become just like everyone else.
We become a regional school
We lose our independence and freedom amd power
Why can't Notre Dame be a national brand in a national conference like the Big 10? Ohio State, Michigan State, and now USC do it
You get a better TV contract with more money and more exposure on more than 1 big name network
Notre Dame most certainly would not become a regional school. They would still likely play football games in 3 timezones like they do every year
You lose your independence sure, and your "freedom and uniqueness" (whatever that means), but Notre Dame would not lose any power in the future of CFB. In fact, you could make the argument that they will lose power in shaping the future of CFB if things keep trending the way they are with these 2 super conferences
Why don't you visit the Buckeye Board and tell FOSU fans what Ohio State Football should do.
The mere thought of going to the Big 10 and aligning ourselves with Michigan gives me nausea.
The Big 10 fan base as a whole despises Notre Dame.
Why can't you come up with a mature and reasonable response like a grown adult?
I provide solid opinions but you can't get over your fixation that I'm a fan of another team. Maybe you just have nothing interesting to say
Because we are not a state school and we don’t churn out 20k new fans a year with an 80k enrollment. ND is not in a big city. They are not in a football rich state and they are not state affiliated. What keeps them ND is their national brand that they control.
Im a decade ND would be on the decline and in 3 decades they would be like Army or Navy.
They will regress to the means but they aren't dropping that far. Don't forget there will be 2 and possibly 3 california schools joining the conference. It's not like ND will be losing exposure and playing all their games in a thousand mile radius. Who knows what Notre Dame could do with an extra 40 million per year ever year in their athletic department.
ND would lose it's exclusive contract with whichever network is in their future. They would also be required to split any proceeds of bowl games with their new conference.
So, since ND could potentially be looking at as much as 100-150 million in TV revenues going forward, plus the proceeds of their bowl games, MONEY is what would be lost. And that is something the school will fight hard to protect...
So, since ND could potentially be looking at as much as 100-150 million in TV revenues going forward, plus the proceeds of their bowl games, MONEY is what would be lost. And that is something the school will fight hard to protect...
You think Michigan State is a national program LOL
Why are you worried about NDs money and why as a fan would I care about their money. ND will never have a money problem. Irrelevant
You are not a ND fan and your program is not unique and doesnt have the freedom that we have had for over a century. I wouldn't expect you to understand
We will have more power than ever the longer we stay independent
You've been saying the same thing for how long now. We've all responded. Why are you continuing to bring it up.
Football is starting soon. Who cares about this
Yes, many or all of those elements could wholly or in part DISAPPEAR.
So what?
ND would still play football, and NEW TRADITIONS WOULD ARISE AND EVOLVE. Kids growing up with ND in a conference would not know -- OR CARE NECESSARILY -- about the ANCIENT AND HEROIC days of INDEPENDENCE.
Two generations in -- and well past OUR LIFETIMES -- it wouldn't matter a whit.
Money drives all sports, including college sports. Maximizing monetization opportunities requires ever greater expansion on one hand and ever greater efficiencies on the other.
And to DO THAT, there needs to be greater organization and formalization as you can't otherwise accommodate the GROWTH that PRODUCES MORE DOUGH.
For me, trying to maintain ND as it currently operates is like ADVOCATING FOR AMISH FARM LIFE. Or investing in BUGGY WHIPS at the turn of the 20th century.
Money will call the tune here, and once ND realizes which is the shortest and most LUCRATIVE ROUTE to it, THAT'S WHERE IT WILL HEAD -- even if with a "heavy heart."
One way or the other, THERE WILL BE CHANGE. Hey, who foresaw the ACC deal or one-year conference membership? Were THOSE acts of INDEPENDENCE?
No, ND NEEDED THOSE AFFILIATIONS and to a large extent, will continue to need them, moving ahead.
It won't be the end of the world, JUST OF THE WORLD WE KNOW.
ND still CAN be a national brand.
ND CAN get a better TV contract.
ND will NEVER be just another regional school.
ND might lose "freedom and uniqueness" ONLY TO GAIN A REALISTIC FUTURE.
Times change.
If playing Indiana, Maryland, Illinois, Rutgers, Minnesota, And Purdue annually excites you, wonderful.
I’m not interested in being Northwestern.
Are you saying that ND, as its just deserts for remaining independent, is going from $15 million in TV revenue to $100 to $150 million?
If so, over what period of time and as compared to what Big Ten and SEC teams will get within that same time frame? You can't be suggesting that ND will get $150 million in 2025 -- a TEN-FOLD INCREASE -- to reup with NBC. Or can you?
Right now, ND is apparently asking NBC for $75 million. Some think THAT'S a stretch, though I will confess, I have no idea.
I know this is an era of OVERVALUED ASSETS, but what you are suggesting strikes me as CORNICOPIAN UTOPIAN.
Lose its identity??? How???
B10 schools like Minnesota makes more TV revenue from the B10 network that ND does with NBC.
75 million is for home games ONLY. As you say, assets have shot up in value, and ND is currently getting 22 million from NBC. So, 75 does not seem that much of a stretch.
That is for the home games, or half the season. Then you have the away games. How much are they worth to CBS/NFLX? Or, how many ND fans would just pay ND directly to stream away games. That could be another 40 or 50 million. Per year. Over 10 years, that's maybe 25-50 million more than b1g conference teams are getting per year. Or, 250-500 million over 10 years. That's a LOT of money.
Which means nothing to recruiting.
Minnesota will always be Minnesota.
Lipstick on a pig is still a pig.
Who gives a shit about NDs money?
They have and will always have a boatload of it. Money will never be an issue
We will also be getting a huge bump in our next tv contract and apparel contact.
Why are you obsessed with NDs money
If ND and the B1G can make the same deal as the one ND has with the ACC by playing five big ten games on NBC and three rivalries. An agreement would be a win-win for both parties. The B1G needs content for all three networks. ND brings that with its national schedule and the flexibility to schedule games and the brand that would play on fox, CBS, and NBC. The B1G will insist ND move their Olympic sports to the B1G. ND will Stay with NBC 330pm slot. ND will get their 75 mils if they agree to play five big ten teams annually. ND's biggest rivalries are all in the B1G. Mich, Purdue, MSU, Penn st, Nebraska, USC, UCLA, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Ohio st. I want ND to stay Independent. I like the b1G to play ND stay by putting them in the B1G National footprint. If the powers to be can make it happen, then it is a win-win.....What do you think about that?
The current contract was BACKLOADED, so the $22 million isn't indicative of the contract's TERM VALUE which in reality averages $15 million per year. So, we're talking at $15 million, a 500% increase and at $22 million one of almost 350%. Who hands out raises like that?
Especially, if it's from an org that has just MADE THE BIG TEN RICH. And in what could easily turn into a deeply DEFLATIONARY ECONOMY as at some point, DELUSIONAL MONEY PRINTING MUST STOP.
So, I'll stick with calling it a STRETCH.
As for the away games, I know of no way of estimating their value given the shifting landscape.
What I WILL SAY is that if ND can put together TOTAL TV REVENUE of $75 million while still remaining independent, it will be doing HANDSOMELY. And if it feels that's all it needs, SO BE IT.
But it will still then have to NAVIGATE its way into the playoff picture while finding a sustainable home for its other sports. The easiest and most EFFICIENT way to achieve both would be to JOIN THE BIG 10. Plus, it would earn comparable money there or even more as it wouldn't have to compete for it with conferences which over time will have more NEGOTIATING LEVERAGE.
ND may still be at the center of all of this but that's because it's still a DESIRABLE PROPERTY. My sense is that the longer it tries to STAND ALONE the more it risks DEPRECIATING ITS REPUTATION. Even now, it's NOT PLAYING OFFENSE in all of this. It's playing DEFENSE.
It was clear from the recent Swarbrick interview that nothing's been decided or ruled out, even as he voiced a) his EXTREME MISGIVINGS about NIL and b) ND's plan to counter NIL's abuses with its traditional 4 and forever proposition. Too bad that for many of the more talented players in the country, THAT DOG WON'T HUNT.
I think it will all come down to whether or not CFB continues to allow ND to play its SELF-ANNOINTED CINDERELLA ROLE. And that may in turn depend DIRECTLY on what happens on the field over the next three years.
So, regardless of how things turn out, the Marcus Freeman hire will no doubt prove to have been PIVOTAL.
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It's a reasonable compromise as well as a potential penultimate move towards full conference membership. Or not. But I don't see it as REAL INDEPENDENCE -- because there's an obvious DEPENDENCY FACTOR. Which is that ND needs comparable TV money; other schools' willingness to allow it to retain CFP eligibility; and a home for its other sports.
Yes, it's a mirror of the ACC deal, but I've never considered that arrangement LEGITIMATE PROOF of ND's continued FOOTBALL INDEPENDENCE. The ND/ACC deal is basically a LAWYER'S TRICK. It's TITULAR INDEPENDENCE with the whole thing hinging on the ACC's allowing ND certain prerogatives in return for playing a required number of games against members of its conference.
That's not FULLY INDEPENDENT. That's HALF PREGNANT.
Which leads back to the basic question of WHY MUST THIS CONCEIT BE PERPETUATED? Especially when much simpler solutions are available and almost ACHING to be implemented.
I also have difficulty seeing it as a LONG-TERM SOLUTION. Who can speak for the Big Ten, but if it were me, I'd only agree to such an arrangement for 5 years then require full conference membership. If ND chose not to comply, it could THEN OPT OUT.
In no other sport is the kind of EXCEPTION ND is looking for granted. In a way, it's an OUTRAGEOUS REQUEST in light of ND's need for conference membership in other sports. If I were the rest of CFB, I'd play hardball with ND. Say to it basically, PUT UP or SHUT UP. You need us more than we need you.
Contrary to what many on ND boards may think, CFB would not fold up and die if ND exited the scene.
But, again, to answer your question, if ND wishes to do this and the Big Ten is willing -- and some sort of equitable playoff eligibility scenario for ND can be concocted -- then this would probably be the best solution out there.
But such an arrangement might come as quite a shock to a lot of ND fans as in any given year, UM, MSU, OSU, PSU and USC have the firepower to beat ND. And it could even happen in the SAME YEAR! Even as Iowa, Purdue, Minnesota or Wisconsin in the right year could do likewise.
I can't see how playing Big Ten teams regularly wouldn't result in MORE LOSSES. Even in good years, ND has ALWAYS LOST TO BIG TEN TEAMS. And in some years, more than one. Plus, in the 50's and early 60's when ND lost regularly to Big 10 teams. I can't remember any one season where it played more than four in all. Never five.
And now, with NIL and the portal, even a semi-Big Ten schedule could be TREACHEROUS.
I would love to see ND play a better schedule then. This is three years in a row now that ND plays a trash home schedule.
I feel the same way about Duke, UNC, Syracuse, and Louisville every year. I’d love it if ND stayed independent but not if the schedule doesn’t pick up.
Actually, although it hasn’t been officially announced yet, it appears your “contract with NBC” has either been drastically affected to where you will be locked out of any night games at home beginning in 2023, or, Swarbrick has already given a “silent verbal” to NBC that you will be joining the Big Ten.
Indications are that Kevin Warren has negotiated an exclusive 7:30 PM window with NBC to televise Big Ten Games ONLY in that time slot beginning next year. Of course if Notre Dame is a Big Ten member, that is totally irrelevant. But if they are Independent, they will be locked out of being able to play a Home game at night.
There are some other things in that contract that may negatively affect Notre Dame wrt NBC programming unless Notre Dame is a full time Big Ten member. But since the details haven’t been publicly announced yet, and the possibility that any negatives become totally irrelevant if Notre Dame does in fact become a member, I won’t get into those right now.
In short, the tea leaves seem to indicate that if you stay with NBC, you will be joining the Big Ten.
Have you been on campus lately???
All of the upgrades takes $$$$.
The biggest issue will be qualifying for the CFP. At anytime ND could be on the outside looking in when it comes to qualifying for the CFP.
Are you willing to stay independent and keep your worthless independent tradition if it means ND can no longer qualify for the CFP because only Conferance champions make the playoffs or you have to belong to a conference period???
There are zero reasons to stay independent. How do I know this?
BECAUSE EVERY TOP TEAM IN THE PAST 20 YEARS BELONGS TO A CONFERANCE AND THEY ARE DOING JUST FINE.
Some teams are actually doing better than independent Notre Dame.
Better in revenue
Better in recruiting
Better in wins
Better in championships
ND will NOT be hurt in anyway if they joined a conference.
Notre Dame would still be very relevant, they would be on television every single week.
Look at how many brands are in conferences.
Texas
Michigan
Ohio State
Alabama
LSU
Florida
USC
UNC
Duke
Oklahoma
I'm talking large money making brands, regardless of the sport. But each of those schools I listed has at least one major revenue sport (whether basketball or football) that is a major brand.
Losing the TV contract--Notre Dame would be on TV every single week if they were in a conference because the powers that be know that their games draw ratings.
The national appeal would not be affected, are you saying people would stop watching ND games if they joined a conference? Absolutely no way. In fact, it may even draw more intrigue.
Notre Dame's independence isn't what you think it is, the ACC dictates to ND who they will play from the conference each year. That most certainly is not independence. Most teams in the ACC get a bye before playing ND on their schedule. I live in ACC country and I love that I have the ability to go see them play depending on the opponents each year. However, if Notre Dame was truly independent, those 4-5 ACC games a year would be replaced with other teams on the schedule of ND's choosing. But this is the agreement Notre Dame got with the ACC, they are fence-sitting about being in a conference. At some point the way this gets structured, Notre Dame will have to commit.
Look at how many brands are in conferences.
Texas
Michigan
Ohio State
Alabama
LSU
Florida
USC
UNC
Duke
Oklahoma
I'm talking large money making brands, regardless of the sport. But each of those schools I listed has at least one major revenue sport (whether basketball or football) that is a major brand.
Losing the TV contract--Notre Dame would be on TV every single week if they were in a conference because the powers that be know that their games draw ratings.
The national appeal would not be affected, are you saying people would stop watching ND games if they joined a conference? Absolutely no way. In fact, it may even draw more intrigue.
Notre Dame's independence isn't what you think it is, the ACC dictates to ND who they will play from the conference each year. That most certainly is not independence. Most teams in the ACC get a bye before playing ND on their schedule. I live in ACC country and I love that I have the ability to go see them play depending on the opponents each year. However, if Notre Dame was truly independent, those 4-5 ACC games a year would be replaced with other teams on the schedule of ND's choosing. But this is the agreement Notre Dame got with the ACC, they are fence-sitting about being in a conference. At some point the way this gets structured, Notre Dame will have to commit.
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