The volume of posts here focusing on the negative. What sort of unrealistic expectations do some have ?
Mystifying and sad
- Thread starter echowaker
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Yep.... First half minus special teams (easily correctable) ND played and looked like a Final Four type team. First game against a really good opponent, you aren't going to be perfect. I had high hopes for ND on O and D and even I didn't expect them to look as good as they did in the first half.
Wimbush looked like a confident leader/winner the entire game.
Wimbush looked like a confident leader/winner the entire game.
The volume of posts focusing on the weak coaching aspect of the game is amplified by the forever resident BK apologists who ignorantly defend what is obviously wrong …. here a BK apologist throws further gas on the fire by dedicating a thread to the very thing he is complaining about and yet is as responsible for as anybody
First game, good opponent, the performance had to meet or exceed expectations. Aside from an injury, what was there to be unhappy about? Would you rather be a Michigan fan?
If I didn't know any better just from seeing all the posts I'd say we lost the game, Wimbush can't play, our o-line can't block, we don't have any RBs, Mack is already a disappointment and Kelly needs to be fired.
echo, attention, attention please. My seating location is first row to the side of the goal post (corner back endzone). During pre-game warm ups, a Michigan team manager came to us and said their kicker will be kicking footballs into the seats , directly at us, so we should be heads up. I noticed the Michigan kicker on the other side of the goal post, directly on the end zone back line, with a ball teed up and he was kicking the ball into the crowd. In all my 20+ years in that seating location, I have never seen that done before, and, I don't even know what the purpose was for the kicker? Do you have any idea? Those balls were coming in on a line drive straight into the crowd. Any thoughts?
I thought it was an excellent game
Defense made a statement. Offense might have to catch up th te defense but it was the first game against a tough rival.
In all an excellent start to a promising season
I think that first of all ND fans are very happy with the win ! The defense was out standing, but as fans on
A message board , I think there were a number legitimate weaknesses on the offense especially during the second Half that were certainly legitimate topics for discussion on a message board ?
If fans are here only to praise the good and ignore the bad, then what should we discuss ?
Fans who argue that Michigan has one of the best defenses in the country may indeed be correct, but tha t remains to be seen as the season progresses ? What I saw was a good run defense with a very good pass
Rush, but a secondary that our ends showed was very vulnerable !
You may be right that as ND fans we may have unrealistic expectations ! I go into every season highly
Optimistic and thinking NC ! Certainly a very long shot and unrealistic in that sense. So you are correct
About the unrealistic part.
As far as focusing on the negative, I didn’t see that, but what I did see was praise for the defense,
Joy for the win, but discussing the let down by the offense and letting Michigan come within one play
of tying the game ! We did win! but I think the criticism is valid that if we let teams hang around and stay close, a potential great season can turn sour pretty quickly !
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First let me start by saying I love the win.
Second, I would rather be a ND fan than a Michigan fan right now.
However, no one on this board can or should even try to defend the ND offense after the Michigan Kick return. After the kick return ND went into "just hold the lead" mode.
ND should have scored before the half.
It's crazy to think ND only had 3 points in the second half. Zero excuse for that.
I am looking big picture! Yes, ND won but no way should it have been that close. You have to put the pedal to the metal and finish the game strong. ND started out the gate fast strong and aggressive on offense. Then the ND offense limbed acrossed the finish line.
Second, I would rather be a ND fan than a Michigan fan right now.
However, no one on this board can or should even try to defend the ND offense after the Michigan Kick return. After the kick return ND went into "just hold the lead" mode.
ND should have scored before the half.
It's crazy to think ND only had 3 points in the second half. Zero excuse for that.
I am looking big picture! Yes, ND won but no way should it have been that close. You have to put the pedal to the metal and finish the game strong. ND started out the gate fast strong and aggressive on offense. Then the ND offense limbed acrossed the finish line.
Honestly Notre Dame and Coach Kelly played very well. They were well prepared for a stellar defense and a good team. Michigan's defense brought relentless pressure all night long. I doubt ND will see a team that brings that type of speed and pressure the rest of the regular season. Wimbush and Mustipher just has to be to do a better job of reading defenses, and adjusting their audibles to be more effective.
The defense was awesome! Everyone is happy obviously with the win. What has people concerned/bitching is that ND tried to give the game to Michigan in the second half playing way too conservative, although they were by far the better team. That falls on the coaching staff, something the bk apologists can't/wont admit.
As one analyst said on a podcast (One Foot Down), once Brian Kelly gets a two score lead it is the same as a four score lead.
He is 33-0 when by leading by at least 11 at half.
Playing the best Defense ND will face this year, he did exactly what was needed.
The only mistake made was on the TD drive ND went away from the press coverage, stunts & blitzes, to a prevent style defense. It used up time, but Michigan couldn't score on the other defense. When Michigan got the ball back ND switched back & got the turnover. So no complaints.
Well, those footballs were cruising in to the crowd as line drives. I once caught a screaming line drive foul ball off the bat of Tim Raines when he played for the White Sox and that was a piece of cake when compared to these kicks. It's probably not even a legit drill. Just screwing with the ND fans. Echo is right. We should have kept all the footballs.
I sat in the EZ last year, opening game versus Temple, for the first time because I gave my normal tickets to visiting family & myself & other family sat in the EZ under the Jumbotron. The same thing happened. I asked somebody close & they said it happens every game. The crowd has fun with the manager by chucking the balls in opposite directions on purpose to watch them run back & forth about 25 times.
Great advice if it ever happens again. I sure would like to know the purpose of this so called kicking drill.
The kickers are only given about 20 yards of field to kick. So when they practice kickoffs they just say eff it & kick the ball into the stands.
We were on the Jumbotron side, but like the 9th row dead center. So most kicks went over our heads & to the side. But one did hit a passed out kid (who was lying in his gf's lap) in the gut, which brought a loud cheer from the crowd.
great Stats, but here is the problem as I see it. I always thought that the idea of football is to keep your offense on the field moving the ball, in order to keep your defense fresh ?
No matter how good your defense, they can run out of “ Gas “ , and if they are on the field playing tired
Unnecessary injuries may occur ?
I always like to win the time of possession and have a fresh defense ! I like the way Lou and Joe Moore
Used to put their games away with great offensive line play and guys like Bettis, Brooks, Culver, Waters, etc. pounded away and Playing ball control.
Their defenses were also very solid and relative fresh if needed to shut down teams !
The Michigan kicker was kicking straight along the end zone back line, from one end, into the crowd at the other end. He wasn't facing the front of the post, but rather to the side. Is that what your guy was doing?
No. Ours was just outside the 5-10 yard line, offset to a side, just launching kicks into the crowd. Maybe the UM kicker thought it would be better to kick side to side?
I’m starting to wonder if these “fans” in here constantly crying are really ND fans? What is there to complain about? Sheesh.
Hey echo, that’s a bunch of bullshit calling me out. I’m no Kelly basher and I’m no Kelly lover. If you feel the need to defend any little nook and cranny that this staff does, go right ahead, but don’t make it look like there was nothing to complain about in the 2nd half of that game. Watch the tape, first down runs were a wasted down and first down passes were much more productive. That’s all I’m saying, so jam the goal line stand comment. We were up by 11 for the majority of the 3rd qtr & they had the ball down a td late in the game, how you say that isn’t hanging on is beyond me. Bottom line, I’m backing this team & staff 110% (as I always have & do), and I’m ecstatic about the win and thought we did some great things. I also thought we got a little too conservative on 1st down in the 2nd half. If you can’t take that criticism being one of this staff’s biggest backers on this board, tough shit, that’s my opinion & I’m not gonna let u paint me as a staff hater or Kelly hater or long hater. Mine are legitimate complaints. What’s sad and mystifying is how you have your heels dug in so much in defense of anything this staff does, that you’ll never budge the other way. That’s sad & mystifying.
In the first half, I think ND was about two-thirds run to pass on first down. The actual percentage of runs was probably a little higher because Wimbush scrambled a couple of times. In the second half I think we only threw once on first down. So, it certainly appears ND played more conservatively, but it also struck me that Michigan's defense really turned up the heat in the second half as well.
A win. One of hopefully many. The D is very promising. The O line? Beaten routinely on the edge. That must be addressed. BW? Man, a love hate relationship. Feast or famine so far but let's give it some time. Get after Ball State and ramp up for the season. I see 10-2 out of this team. With some luck 11-1 leaving the playoff committee with heartburn. lol.
Not defending anything just questioning why there seems to be exceedingly more focus on the negative after a quality victory.
" Tried to give the game away ". That's really dumb even for you.
Who called you out ? I made a general statement to start the thread. Quit being a drama queen.
A first time starter at left tackle and an obviously not a 100 percent healthy one at right tackle. They likely won't face a better front all year. I look for steady solid improvement.
So you weren’t referencing any of my posts when you created a thread about it? Gotcha. Give the defending a rest, echo, there'll be a whole hell of a lot less drama around here when you do.
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Can you explain how having a two score lead for Kelly is like having a four score lead? That's not clear exactly how they meant it. I've listened to the one foot down podcast before and it's awful. I don't think they are actually experienced analysts more like superfans who got their hands on a microphone and an audience (unless they have changed since the last time I listened...it's been a few years). But in my opinion the whole site went to hell when they changed the person in charge two or three years ago.
I'd also be curious to see how many games Kelly had a two score lead in the first quarter and lost. The halftime stat is interesting. But I think the pattern people here are complaining about (at least the rational ones) is his tendency to shut it down as soon as there is a two score lead, and if this happens after the first two possessions then so be it.
Did you watch the game? ND had this game and was in complete control. Playing way too conservative and not playing to win almost cost them. If you are too stupid to comprehend this, shame on you. Heaven forbid you question the coaching. It would and could have easily been a travesty with Michigan winning this game when ND cleary outplayed and was the better team.
If he was hurt than he shouldn't be playing. He was awful and had no business on the field.
I will answer each one in order:
1) How is a 2 score lead like 4 score lead against Kelly...
If you are up 2 scores in the 2nd half & you start at your 20 & run up the middle 3 times, & punt, you take 2 minutes off the clock & give them the ball around the 35 yard line. Not good.
If you air it out you risk a turnover, sacks, etc, with incompletions you take less than a minute off the clock & give them the ball back at the 35 (or better with sacks or turnover). Really not good.
So what does Kelly do? He runs an offense that is built around safe, positive plays, low reward, but low risk. He throws 2 yard passes that are high completion chance, low interception or incomplete chances, maybe get 4-5 yards out of it. Runs reads that aren't meant to break a big play, but won't cost a fumble or big loss. He just runs plays looking to get 3-4 yards at a time. This takes about 4-5 minutes off the clock, changes field position, & now they get the ball back inside their 20 with 5 less minutes & no momentum.
So instead of giving them good to great field position 7-8 times, you give them bad field position 3-4 times. Makes a 2 score lead seem like a 4 score lead.
2) Doesn't matter what the stat is for a 1st Q lead & shutting it down because Kelly didn't do that. ND ran their offense the 2nd Q & scored a TD. Then aired it out again the next possession. ND then ran their offense to get the FG (as you saw they threw deep for the TD that got called back) in the 3rd Q. ND didn't shut it down until AFTER that.
3) Can't argue with 33-0. And that is the circumstance here. The other stuff doesn't matter because they are N/A in this game. ND had an 11 point lead at half. That was the circumstance, & Kelly is 33-0 in that situation. So it works for him.
Also, could you imagine if ND came out throwing & running high risk, high reward plays, like in the 1st half, turned it over 2-3 times & lost?
This place would have melted down.
You're wasting your time with him .. he also complains about the very things he does ... cat calls .. basically he's a hypocrite and homer of the worst kind ....anyone who claims everything the coach does is correct can't possibly be right ... nobody is right all the time .. and Kelly has a history of some real bone headed moves ... my favorite is when he has to start giving out his fake resume
Is it that hard to see this is total garbage .... since when can you count on drives taking 4-5 minutes off ... not if you're 3 and out .... toss in inc pass or 2 .... and since when can you count on your D pitching a shutout .... you can count on one hand how many ND has had in the last 20 years ... figure in we weren't playing Central Michigan ....
That post doesn't come close to explaining a 2 score lead as 4 .... a 2 score lead is just that because I can count to 16 .... duh
Anyone going to look up 33-0? .... what a joke ... if anyone watched the game you can see what a mess Kelly almost created
It is clear we have another BK can do no wrong guy .... puke
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