Life after Ian Book

[Quest4Twelve]

Since Ian has accepted the SR Bowl invitation ND will be auditioning for a new QB for 2021. So...

1. Does Tyler Buchner get the first opportunity to be the #1?
2. Does not playing in 2020 hurt those chances?
3. Does ND maybe look the route of a grad transfer?

 

[Shulkswagen]

If we take a grad transfer then all other QBs on the current roster would be getting the messsge that they are never going to play other than mop up duty. We open up the competition for our 3 QBs and see what we have.

 

[NCDomer1]

You play your best players. If Aron Rodgers happens to be in the transfer portal and wants to attend ND than so be it. College football is a business where the coaching staff has the have ND's best interest with that being said,
It's supposed to be fun just like being undefeated is fun making fun of Michigan is a bunch of fun.

 

[Telx1]

Kelly should have confidence that one of Clark, Payne or Buchner will separate and earn the starter role. I don’t see value in a grad transfer, but the transfer portal in general is a different consideration in my opinion. Too many really good QB’s have made a team switch in recent years via the portal not to keep this as an open option. Spring practice next year is going to be really interesting.

 

[Shulkswagen]

You play your best players. If Aron Rodgers happens to be in the transfer portal and wants to attend ND than so be it. College football is a business where the coaching staff has the have ND's best interest with that being said,
It's supposed to be fun just like being undefeated is fun making fun of Michigan is a bunch of fun.

Let’s invest in development of the kids we recruited. This feels like a better option vs the slippery slope of a one year guy and a giant hole left behind him. But sure if Aaron Rodgers is available I’ll go with that.

 

[savvyandsassier]

You play your best players. If Aron Rodgers happens to be in the transfer portal and wants to attend ND than so be it. College football is a business where the coaching staff has the have ND's best interest with that being said,
It's supposed to be fun just like being undefeated is fun making fun of Michigan is a bunch of fun.

Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen, though.... certainly not Aaron Rodgers.

This could be a good topic for some vigorous fan blather, however I couldn't help but notice how the OP put this thread on the right track by studiously ignoring the other scholarship QBs already on the roster, one who had a legit Clemson offer, and the other who while very short, had like, Bama and USC offers and whatnot in the 8th grade.

And so from the opening salvo, the discussion already contains a paranoid undercurrent where were down to either starting a true freshman or desperately trawling through the grad transfer ranks to see if we can find a savior until Buchner's ready. How about we just start either Drew Pyne or Brendan Clark and go from there? Because that would be the pretty much 100% obvious choice of both what we ought to do and what will happen anyway.

 

[scubastevefl]

Hopefully 2 of the 3 mentioned names can some reps in at least the Cuse game if not Cuse and WF. Some experience for 2021.

to the OP, why would Buchner have first shot at #1. Based on recruiting rankings?

 

[savvyandsassier]

Hopefully 2 of the 3 mentioned names can some reps in at least the Cuse game if not Cuse and WF. Some experience for 2021.

to the OP, why would Buchner have first shot at #1. Based on recruiting rankings?

I imagine because Clark and Pyne have already been written off. Even though Book, who's finally getting the long overdue respect he's pretty much deserved since he took over vs Wake back in '18, was a considerably more lowly recruit than either of those two. And how look how great he did.

So there is no reason to think Buchner would have first crack. But as fans, the prospect of having to wait two or three years for Buchner to start is almost unthinkable. Not everyone's going to be Trevor Lawrence however, and even he had to wait 4 games into his freshman year to start.

 

[TDIrish27]

Me ?

I would take 2-3 grad transfers every year.

If it's a QB with a proven track record who can serve as a 1 year band aid while Clark and the other guys develop why not ?

Where would we be without Skowronek and McCord ?

 

[Shulkswagen]

Me ?

I would take 2-3 grad transfers every year.

If it's a QB with a proven track record who can serve as a 1 year band aid while Clark and the other guys develop why not ?

Where would we be without Skowronek and McCord ?

While they develop from the sidelines? If you have a QB with potential you have to give him meaningful playing time for him to develop.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Me ?

I would take 2-3 grad transfers every year.

If it's a QB with a proven track record who can serve as a 1 year band aid while Clark and the other guys develop why not ?

Where would we be without Skowronek and McCord ?

Yeah, I don't thin we're going to do that. We'll just start either Clark or Pyne. There's no call for a grad transfer QB. It just doesn't make any sense at all. Any grad transfer arriving in the summer would be well behind either of our two both younger current QBs on the roster. Heck a grad transfer would probably be behind Buchner if Buchner enrolls in the spring.

Now if we have a transfer this off season then yes, maybe a grad transfer QB is in order, for depth purposes. But otherwise no.

 

[Quest4Twelve]

While they develop from the sidelines? If you have a QB with potential you have to give him meaningful playing time for him to develop.

Bingo! Buchner looks to be a good one. We also thought Phil was going to be a good one. He might still be but you get the point. Payne and Clark have barely been on the field. Buchner has yet to take a college snap. This program has made so much progress in the last 3 years and you want to keep the train rolling so if a grad transfer can help why not? You don't want to take a step back just to develop a kid if you don't have to.

 

[Quest4Twelve]

Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen, though.... certainly not Aaron Rodgers.

This could be a good topic for some vigorous fan blather, however I couldn't help but notice how the OP put this thread on the right track by studiously ignoring the other scholarship QBs already on the roster, one who had a legit Clemson offer, and the other who while very short, had like, Bama and USC offers and whatnot in the 8th grade.

And so from the opening salvo, the discussion already contains a paranoid undercurrent where were down to either starting a true freshman or desperately trawling through the grad transfer ranks to see if we can find a savior until Buchner's ready. How about we just start either Drew Pyne or Brendan Clark and go from there? Because that would be the pretty much 100% obvious choice of both what we ought to do and what will happen anyway.

So scholarship offers 2 to 3 years prior are the barometer who should start? If that was the case then why is Mac Jones starting over Bryce Young?

 

[NCDomer1]

One other item: ND's identity is to run the ball and play defense just do not make stupid mistakes on offense like turnovers. This has been the make up for about 6 years.
ND will have more talent next year at the skill positions than this year, but we do lose three O-lineman to the pro's. Lugg and Patterson are for sure starters, coupled with a variety of choices including our favorite freshman slash recruiting coordinator.
Defense is a different story being guys could go or stay either way. Everybody knows Hayes, JOK, Crawford are gone, but after that who knows. It would be nice to see what Foskey can do starting as well as Houston. Defense is a box of chocolates

 

[savvyandsassier]

So scholarship offers 2 to 3 years prior are the barometer who should start? If that was the case then why is Mac Jones starting over Bryce Young?

I'm not sure what you mean. I was saying you never even mentioned Clark or Pyne, and most fans don't seem to be too high on either of them, and all they can talk about is Tyler Buchner. So I figured that would include you too, unless I misunderstood you somehow.

So are you just trolling me here? Mac Jones starting for Bama is sort of the equivalent to Clark starting for us next year. Or Pyne for that matter. And you skipped over both those guys like they weren't there in your OP. So by your logic if you will, Young should be starting Bama, and he's not, it's Mac Jones who might win the Heisman trophy. And yet you seem to want Buchner to take over either immediately or as soon as it can be arranged, hence your thought of enlisting a grad transfer to keep the seat warm for him or something.

So I have no idea what you're talking about in this post at all. But in any case you should pretty much count on either Clark or Pyne being the starter, at least for Week 1. However it would not be a huge shocker if Buchner won the job as a true frosh if he's as good as advertised, plus he'll be enrolling early.

 

[Shulkswagen]

I'm not sure what you mean. I was saying you never even mentioned Clark or Pyne, and most fans don't seem to be too high on either of them, and all they can talk about is Tyler Buchner. So I figured that would include you too, unless I misunderstood you somehow.

So are you just trolling me here? Mac Jones starting for Bama is sort of the equivalent to Clark starting for us next year. Or Pyne for that matter. And you skipped over both those guys like they weren't there in your OP. So by your logic if you will, Young should be starting Bama, and he's not, it's Mac Jones who might win the Heisman trophy. And yet you seem to want Buchner to take over either immediately or as soon as it can be arranged, hence your thought of enlisting a grad transfer to keep the seat warm for him or something.

So I have no idea what you're talking about in this post at all. But in any case you should pretty much count on either Clark or Pyne being the starter, at least for Week 1. However it would not be a huge shocker if Buchner won the job as a true frosh if he's as good as advertised, plus he'll be enrolling early.

We have opposite view on the same topic. Personally not a fan of recruiting good talented kids and not developing them in games ... but recently even top programs are grabbing QBs via transfer because quite frankly top kids are coming out of high school with a tremendous amount of coaching and development already. In our case let’s play the kids we have if Book moves on which is likely but not certain.

 

[IrishMike409]

I just don’t love the idea of a true freshman starting. Especially one that had no game action his senior year of HS.

Clark or Pyne need to be ready.

Makes for a messy situation because ideally, TB would be ready by is soph year, but Clark/Pyne will be back.

I’m sure BK and Rees will make the right call.

 

[Tru2Irish]

The trouble is in a normal season ,Clark might have gotten into 4-5 games but he hasn't got the opportunity much against ACC competition. This hurts development. You cannot underestimate game situations compared to practice. I agree though. McCloud and Skorownek have been valuable to the team. I even think by next year Pryor will be seen as a steal. 2-3 really good transfers will help. Just need to pick the right ones. No players who don't make a difference.

 

[Get Nasty]

there’s so much talent coming back and in to not have a good passing qb next year. If Kelly isn’t sure of what he has he needs to seek transfer. Tremble Kyren Mayer Johnson maybe javon or Ben, maybe Davis, Austin, tyree, and the frosh coming in ....chance at another great offense.

 

[savvyandsassier]

I just don’t love the idea of a true freshman starting. Especially one that had no game action his senior year of HS.

Clark or Pyne need to be ready.

Makes for a messy situation because ideally, TB would be ready by is soph year, but Clark/Pyne will be back.

I’m sure BK and Rees will make the right call.

Yeah, I guess it could be messy, and there may well be a transfer, maybe two. The messiest scenario would be if Buchner won the job, and then Pyne and Clark both transferred. Which could happen. Buchner is really good and he'll be here for the spring. The fact that apparently he's not playing this season at all in HS doesn't help his cause, but still, it'd be three guys trying to win the job, may the best man win.

And on a related note, when they switch to open transfer policy with no penalty which they're obviously gearing up to do, the QB position is the one position where it could get messy. Because QBs who don't win the job at their home school the way Clark or Pyne might not, the temptation to and the ease with which they could transfer could cause chaos at that one position. But of course it's ultimately a zero sum game and there's only so many starting QB spots.

In general that rule's going to help smaller programs, because there's going to be a lot of former blue-chippers at big programs that after they sit for a couple of years will transfer to lower echelon schools. More readily than they do now.

 

[IrishMike409]

Yeah, I guess it could be messy, and there may well be a transfer, maybe two. The messiest scenario would be if Buchner won the job, and then Pyne and Clark both transferred. Which could happen. Buchner is really good and he'll be here for the spring. The fact that apparently he's not playing this season at all in HS doesn't help his cause, but still, it'd be three guys trying to win the job, may the best man win.

And on a related note, when they switch to open transfer policy with no penalty which they're obviously gearing up to do, the QB position is the one position where it could get messy. Because QBs who don't win the job at their home school the way Clark or Pyne might not, the temptation to and the ease with which they could transfer could cause chaos at that one position. But of course it's ultimately a zero sum game and there's only so many starting QB spots.

In general that rule's going to help smaller programs, because there's going to be a lot of former blue-chippers at big programs that after they sit for a couple of years will transfer to lower echelon schools. More readily than they do now.

Great points. Agree w you: Buchner is damn good. That said, he’s not Trevor Lawrence good. He’s not Fields good. Could he come in here and win 11 game next year, as a true Freshman? I don’t see it. Hope I’m wrong.
Schedule lines up nicely. With the guys we have coming back, 11 wins is in the cards. Gotta get it right at QB.

Best case scenario is Book comes back. Buchner sits, learns, then is a ready to start sophomore in 2022. But that isn’t happening.....

 

[Pennick4]

Clark or Pyne.

 

[TDIrish27]

While they develop from the sidelines? If you have a QB with potential you have to give him meaningful playing time for him to develop.

While you lose----if you're OK with that fine.

Me----I'm not.

I want a good club every year.

I'm a pig.

 

[TDIrish27]

Yeah, I don't thin we're going to do that. We'll just start either Clark or Pyne. There's no call for a grad transfer QB. It just doesn't make any sense at all. Any grad transfer arriving in the summer would be well behind either of our two both younger current QBs on the roster. Heck a grad transfer would probably be behind Buchner if Buchner enrolls in the spring.

Now if we have a transfer this off season then yes, maybe a grad transfer QB is in order, for depth purposes. But otherwise no.

I wouldn't take a kid who can't arrive till summer as a QB.

He would have to come in at midyear.

I would NEVER take a kid as a grad transfer to be a backup at any position just as I wouldn't recruit a HS kid if I didn't think he had the ability to start.

I don't think we'll do it either.

But like it or not this is the new world of college football and you have to be on board with the Grad Transfer thing.

No one here unhappy with how it's worked out this year for us I'm sure.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Great points. Agree w you: Buchner is damn good. That said, he’s not Trevor Lawrence good. He’s not Fields good. Could he come in here and win 11 game next year, as a true Freshman? I don’t see it. Hope I’m wrong.
Schedule lines up nicely. With the guys we have coming back, 11 wins is in the cards. Gotta get it right at QB.

Best case scenario is Book comes back. Buchner sits, learns, then is a ready to start sophomore in 2022. But that isn’t happening.....

You want Book to come back? I'm against it. Call me old-fashioned I suppose. I don't really know, it's such a one-off scenario. I mean obviously a high-quality veteran like Book for one more year at the all-imporant QB position helps us, but it doesn't seem quite right. ND's having a full season, he really hasn't been robbed of any opportunity.

That's another huge topic this off season for fans to mull over. What's the deal with the extra eligibility and who should we bring back or not? We could bring everyone back! But we're not actually going to do that are we?

That could be crazy.

 

[Shulkswagen]

While you lose----if you're OK with that fine.

Me----I'm not.

I want a good club every year.

I'm a pig.

Managing QBs is tricky ... we will see what happens. I have seen a steady stream of underwhelming transfers at QB. Occasionally they work out but usually there’s a good reason they didn’t win the job at their current school. For every Jalen Hurts there are 10 Malik Zaires. If we think our young QBs are the answer let’s win with them. If we think none of them are the answer then admit our recruiting failed and look for a transfer. I’d imagine we would be a prime landing spot.

 

[savvyandsassier]

I wouldn't take a kid who can't arrive till summer as a QB.

He would have to come in at midyear.

I would NEVER take a kid as a grad transfer to be a backup at any position just as I wouldn't recruit a HS kid if I didn't think he had the ability to start.

I don't think we'll do it either.

But like it or not this is the new world of college football and you have to be on board with the Grad Transfer thing.

No one here unhappy with how it's worked out this year for us I'm sure.

Yeah, I don't think we'll take a grad transfer QB, there's no need. Unless we have transfers. Then we could take one for depth purposes, in spite of what you just said about no grad transfers just for depth. That would be the one position, and you're down to two QBs. Then again who wants to transfer in at QB just to be a backup?

This off season is going to be hectic.

 

[Shulkswagen]

Yeah, I don't think we'll take a grad transfer QB, there's no need. Unless we have transfers. Then we could take one for depth purposes, in spite of what you just said about no grad transfers just for depth. That would be the one position, and you're down to two QBs. Then again who wants to transfer in at QB just to be a backup?

This off season is going to be hectic.

The last 2 ND QBs to grad transfer out had to compete for starting jobs and both lost the competition and played their last season on the bench at a new school while they could have helped to contribute at ND.

 

[savvyandsassier]

The last 2 ND QBs to grad transfer out had to compete for starting jobs and both lost the competition and played their last season on the bench at a new school while they could have helped to contribute at ND.

I know. LOL! We've had a number of ND QB grad transfers. Zaire was just an idiot, he shouldn't have transferred to a power program like UF. That was just foolish. And Wimbush is Wimbush, he can't pass, I'm not sure where he would have won the job. And he too transferred to a winning team that couldn't afford to put up with such a poor-passing QB.

I guess Crist did okay, right? Golson did okay too, until he was eventually beaten out by some no-name QB at FSU. I think Andrew Hendrix actually did the best of all our QB grad transfers. He didn't get drafted or nothing, but I believe he started the whole season, right?

 

[IrishMike409]

You want Book to come back? I'm against it. Call me old-fashioned I suppose. I don't really know, it's such a one-off scenario. I mean obviously a high-quality veteran like Book for one more year at the all-imporant QB position helps us, but it doesn't seem quite right. ND's having a full season, he really hasn't been robbed of any opportunity.

That's another huge topic this off season for fans to mull over. What's the deal with the extra eligibility and who should we bring back or not? We could bring everyone back! But we're not actually going to do that are we?

That could be crazy.

I agree with you, it’s likely time for both Book and ND to part ways. I’m just saying, best case scenario is Book coming back- all but guarantees double digit wins, and another shot at playoffs.

 

[VTND]

Since Ian has accepted the SR Bowl invitation ND will be auditioning for a new QB for 2021. So...

1. Does Tyler Buchner get the first opportunity to be the #1?
2. Does not playing in 2020 hurt those chances?
3. Does ND maybe look the route of a grad transfer?

All three will compete for the job. Buchner is coming in early for that very reason. I wouldn’t write of Clark or Pyne. As for hitting the transfer portal, probably isn’t going to happen unless one of the above two transfers.

 

[NCDomer1]

Book has decided to move on after this year

 

[TDIrish27]

I know. LOL! We've had a number of ND QB grad transfers. Zaire was just an idiot, he shouldn't have transferred to a power program like UF. That was just foolish. And Wimbush is Wimbush, he can't pass, I'm not sure where he would have won the job. And he too transferred to a winning team that couldn't afford to put up with such a poor-passing QB.

I guess Crist did okay, right? Golson did okay too, until he was eventually beaten out by some no-name QB at FSU. I think Andrew Hendrix actually did the best of all our QB grad transfers. He didn't get drafted or nothing, but I believe he started the whole season, right?

The last 2 Heisman Trophy winners were grad transfers .

Last years Big 12 Offensive POY was a Grad Transfer .

My point is to just shut your mind down and say no way doesn't make sense.

 

[savvyandsassier]

The last 2 Heisman Trophy winners were grad transfers .

Last years Big 12 Offensive POY was a Grad Transfer .

My point is to just shut your mind down and say no way doesn't make sense.

I suppose you're right. And if Book leaves, and there just happens to be a legit, high-quality option who wants in and is a program fit all the rest of it, of course you'd have to consider it. Though I don't think Kyler Murray was a grad transfer. Jalen Hurts was. And there are still impracticalities and drawbacks about it. We're not hurting at the QB position.

 

[IrishMike409]

Clark should be ready. Has to be ready. It’s that simple. He’ll be a 3rd year guy, and should be ready to step into the role. Did he come here to be a starter or a career backup!?

 

[Zorich 88]

I have been saying for some time now, all the Book haters are going to wish he was here after he leaves.
Book without a doubt, has had one of the greatest Careers any ND QB.
He will be missed the day he plays his last game.

No matter who starts next year, there will be a struggle at the QB position.

ND does not have a guy like DJ from Clemson waiting in the wings.

Who ever the QB is, he will not have any game plan built around him. ND will be a run first team.

Just need a game Manager next year at the QB spot.

 

[IrishMike409]

I have been saying for some time now, all the Book haters are going to wish he was here after he leaves.
Book without a doubt, has had one of the greatest Careers any ND QB.
He will be missed the day he plays his last game.

No matter who starts next year, there will be a struggle at the QB position.

ND does not have a guy like DJ from Clemson waiting in the wings.

Who ever the QB is, he will not have any game plan built around him. ND will be a run first team.

Just need a game Manager next year at the QB spot.

Totally agree here. I said back in September: we will miss Ian when he moves on. The guy has just done it right, from Day 1.

 

[IrishMike409]

Is Clark as good a runner as Book?

 

[savvyandsassier]

Is Clark as good a runner as Book?

Yeah, I think Clark's a good athlete. I don't know if he'll be as talented or instinctive a scrambler as Book. Though Book's cautious/conservative style dovetails with his escapability, so it's sort of a perfect storm for someone who's a nice, quick athlete, a little shorter, and he can afford to take his time because he knows he can take off and run, it just plays off each other.

And so yes, I think Clark is considered a nimble athlete for a QB who was a rather prolific runner in HS. I'm guessing like Book he can be a threat carrying the ball.

 

[IrishMike409]

Yeah, I think Clark's a good athlete. I don't know if he'll be as talented or instinctive a scrambler as Book. Though Book's cautious/conservative style dovetails with his escapability, so it's sort of a perfect storm for someone who's a nice, quick athlete, a little shorter, and he can afford to take his time because he knows he can take off and run, it just plays off each other.

And so yes, I think Clark is considered a nimble athlete for a QB who was a rather prolific runner in HS. I'm guessing like Book he can be a threat carrying the ball.

Your synopsis of Book’s “perfect storm” is spot on. Those skill sets really compliment each other nicely, supported by tremendous instincts.