Late Signing Day Wednesday
- Thread starter beachcardinal
- Start date
any fears that CLR was going to build a powerhouse at SC can be laid to rest. He will, as was his history at Oklahom, have good teams and 10 W’s, but he is not going to be a NC coach. His recruiting is not at elite levels. His loyalty to a poor DC who is also an abysmal recruiter will wear out fan welcome by year 4. Gone are the days of 5* commits on signing day! Today had to be a huge letdown for SC fans! SC failed to ‘recruit’ a top DL in the ‘23 class. In fact no position group except QB and WR was near elite. SC is an offense only team. ND will dominate the next 5 years vs SC.
Elite fast Rodrick Pleasant, who lives 20 minutes from USC, announcing to Oregon today, was a bit of a surprise.
And you are correct. Per Rivals, Marcus Freeman out recruited Lincoln Riley and USC for the 2023 class. And USC has every advantage you can imagine, from a much much better recruiting area in so. California, to easier academic standards, to weather.
I am not sure why you would say that, Are you leaving out the transfer portal? SC has a higher rated overall class than ND (8th vs 11th) although Freeman did well, and it was too bad we didn’t get Pleasent. Oh course, anyone is free to only count HS kids but leaving out players like Caleb Williams and Jordan Addison is not a very good way to look at a team’s talent. Do you not think your transfer QB is important to your chances to win next year?
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but no denying that CLR/Grinch cannot recruit the H.S defensive talent. The tactic they are using has a cieling short of elite. CLR needs a competent DC; one who coaches and recruits. The portal gets improvement only to a certain level.
Two bad non portal classes will be a hard sell.
That's fair. Riley has not done well with High School defensive talent, I think because of Grinch. But he has done well with defensive talent in the portal. I couldn't agree more about the need to replace Grinch.
MF did outrecruit him, but just by a little.
SC class is higher because they have 4 more players. ND player avg is 91.26 vs SC 91.06
Sc has more high end talent but our bottom half is better. We have 6 players 3 star or below. Sc has 14
I don't know how any ND fan could be happy with this class right now
ND is down to 10th in the recruiting rankings with 5 other programs biting at their heels.
MF was supposed to be the guy who brought in the high end talent despite being really green as a coach.
Now we have a really green coach and he's not even moving the needle on the talent side of the equation either.
This is a Brian Kelly esque recruiting class but without Brian Kelly here to coach them up. SIGH
Not a good sign at all
ND is down to 10th in the recruiting rankings with 5 other programs biting at their heels.
MF was supposed to be the guy who brought in the high end talent despite being really green as a coach.
Now we have a really green coach and he's not even moving the needle on the talent side of the equation either.
This is a Brian Kelly esque recruiting class but without Brian Kelly here to coach them up. SIGH
Not a good sign at all
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What you have written is absolutely accurate. But part of this is how one evaluates things. To me five stars are way more important than four stars because they are project to play immediately. I think ND did a fine job in recruiting but to say it substantially out recruit SC isn't accurate to me. I do agree that player average is very important, but so is depth.
I am not trying to take away form ND's class, it uis very good. I just don't think that ND substantially our recruited USC.
(Forgive typos just returned from a three-drink dinner in Carystal Cove)
Have you seen what he’s grabbed from the portal? Recruiting is now about evaluating hs kids vs what’s available in the portal. just looking at hs kids that sign is a big mistake. And btw, virtually everybody on the board, myself included, thought in august that sc was a W. Everybody said their ol/dl was pathetic and we would role them. Coaching also matters and frankly Riley is better then Freeman, so there is that. Totally agree on Grinch ( DC) though
CLR is a one dimensional coach. Think of the top HC’s, you don’t just think of the offense or defense. When you think of Dabo, Saban, Smart, and a few others, you are thinking ‘team’, not an aspect of that team. SC has 1/2 an excellent HC.
The loyalty to Grinch will bring CLR down; Grinch has to go, but CLR is reluctant to bring in a guy with charisma or clout, he would be distrusting of such a strong persona. Can you imagine CLR with an Ed O type recruiting defense and OL.
As is CLR recruits QB and WR! He cannot even recruit a TE! His ceiling is a 10W coach and a 8-12 ranking. The SEC domination has nothing to fear from CLR.
The loyalty to Grinch will bring CLR down; Grinch has to go, but CLR is reluctant to bring in a guy with charisma or clout, he would be distrusting of such a strong persona. Can you imagine CLR with an Ed O type recruiting defense and OL.
As is CLR recruits QB and WR! He cannot even recruit a TE! His ceiling is a 10W coach and a 8-12 ranking. The SEC domination has nothing to fear from CLR.
Wondered if Crystal Cove had significant water damage to beach or rentals? Beautiful setting for dinner at sunset!
Marcus Freeman walked into a better situation than Lincoln Riley on day 1 on the job. It’s fair to say that both inherited rosters with holes. Riley had more holes and closed them faster. He also beat Freeman in year 1 rather handily which no one saw coming and made a serious run at the playoffs (2 very close losses). I’m fine with where ND is with Freeman but there’s no way you can slam Riley and say Freeman is outperforming him.
Thankfully the cove is fine. One part of coast Highway was damaged nearby and it is under repair.
I didn't say that. I said slightly. Very close. I do wish we had a few more top end guys
This post is a bit careless with the facts, “Gone are the days of 5* commits on signing day!” SC signed three five stars on early signing day (one of whom was later lowered to a high four star). ND signed none. “SC failed to ‘recruit’ a top DL in the ‘23 class”. SC signed three four-star DL; Shelby, Lucas, and Sullivan. Now I suppose one could argue that four stars aren’t elite, but if that is the case no one is ND’s class is elite. “In fact no position group except QB and WR was near elite.” I am not sure why our RB room wouldn’t qualify. Five Star Brown didn’t even see that much playing time and this year we added three four stars to the group. Linebacker has substantially been upgraded with the addition of four stars Tacket Curtis and Mason Cobb.
Late signing day was a disappointment because we had hoped to sign Pleasant, but we did add four Star Walker Lyons.
As to coach Riley, he has been a head coach since 2017 and has appeared in three playoffs. During that time three coaches won the natty. During that time only Clemson appeared in more playoffs. It is hard to find a better record for the first years of a head coach in modern college football,
“ND will dominate the next 5 years vs SC.” While this may end up being true it makes no sense in context. SC had it worst defensive in decades last season, but still defeated ND.
Finally, a general comment. People seemed to be slow adapting to the new college football, The transfer portal has dramatically changed recruiting. For example, SC will probably add 3-5 more players when the portal reopens after spring ball. In today's world you can’t judge the upside of a class until summer. Can anyone argue that the addition of Calen Williams, Jordan Addison and Travis Dye didn’t impact SC’s team? Even five star Duce Robinson hasn’t signed yet, It is a new world.
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did you read the 247 article regarding the defensive recruiting? SC is losing the ‘gap’ war with the elite teams.
Offensively, SC is competitive but that is 1/2 a team. And defensively, there is a lot to be done by a defensive staff that has not gotten it done. Aside from having former Ok. players follow him, even CLR has not shown to be a dynamo on the recruiting trail; not even with portal elites.
No, I didn't. I was just addressing thew many errors in your post, as described above.
The landscape has changed but there's nothing more predictive of the future success of a football program than the amount of freshman talent they are bringing into the organization every year, and that doesn't change with the portal.
The portal is there as a tool to repair an error in the system, but the incoming freshman class (recruiting class) is a tool used to build your entire system with.
That could be true but there is no evidence to suggest it is true. Michigan State and USC dramatically changed their success rate using the portal. The idea that having a freshman rather than a proven player is somehow better hasn't been tested. It is an especially dubious proposition now that players can transfer without consequence.
USC Football has won one PAC12 title in the last 14 seasons. Again. One. USC Football should focus on winning the PAC12 in 2023.
1 year yes. Then back down to below average for MSU. Hard to sustain. Easier when you have Caleb Williams. Hes the eraser for any LR mistakes
Yes guys you get from the portal make a huge difference, as I said. Why is it hard to sustain? You get guys for a shorter window but they come with experience. For example, SC picked up a first team all Big-Ten and Second team all SEC player from the portal this year.
Culture, picking up the right guys, choosing team guys and not just guys wanting the nfl, finding the right fits for scheme and lockerroom, high school recruiting and transfers can become an issue if they see guys constantly getting passed up and pushed. Dealing with a revolving door of players.
It's only year 2 and you have the equalizer. Some programs may be able to sustain it. A lot will be up and down like a Mich state
Too early to say one way or another at this point
Agree it is too early but much easier to judge a culture fit with someone who has competed at the college level rather than High School.
No it's not. You recruit players for months if not years. You know the kid, family and background.
Transfers go in the portal in december and commit to a team in 2 weeks, sometimes less. It's about skills, not fit most of the time
Culture matters
Disagree, you need to know more about HS students because the transition from High School to college is huge. Culture in football means work ethic and ability to transfer from practice to the field and be a good teammate. It isn't learning Sanskrit. A coach can judge that by reviewing how a player presented at HS verses how they perform in CFB. It much easier to determine than trying to judge a high school players against lesser athletes.
Do they think it was easier to evaluate Caleb Williams or C.J. Williams for USC. Let's take your new transfer QB. You think the coaches had enough information on him to sign him? It a coach can make a good decision on one why not of ten?
They know the type of person CJ Carr more than Sam Hartman. Theyve been recruiting and talking to him for over a year. By the time he gets here they'd have known him for maybe 3 years. They learned about Hartman in a month.
They absolutely know Carr moreso than Hartman.
They aren't dating. You need to know abilty, coachability, attitude and work ethic. You watch the high school film, talk to the HS coach, watch the college tape maybe talk to some guys who know him and decide.
It doesn't matter if you know someone better. All that matters is if you now enough to decide if the player will help the team.
No it's not. You need to know how a player fits into your lockerroom, into your culture, into the schools culture.
I never said anything about what is easier to identify ability. Thats college.
I specifically said culture and fit
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