Kenny Minchey

savvyandsassier

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I almost want Buchner to transfer to Stanford, not that he's going to do that or is actually thinking about it or anything. I just want to see Buchner play, but I'm definitely going to say SH will be the starter for this next season. And then he probably will start for ND, in 2024, unless Minchey starts, which I don't think he would. But Minchey is pretty awesome, so it could possibly happen. And then I guess TB could transfer then if it came to that, after the spring of 2024.

But if he did transfer, let's just say he did..... that would be awesome if he could be starting QB at Stanford, and I think he could have a good shot. If he transferred after '23 spring practice, in April/May it would be.....
 

tbone3114

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I almost want Buchner to transfer to Stanford, not that he's going to do that or is actually thinking about it or anything. I just want to see Buchner play, but I'm definitely going to say SH will be the starter for this next season. And then he probably will start for ND, in 2024, unless Minchey starts, which I don't think he would. But Minchey is pretty awesome, so it could possibly happen. And then I guess TB could transfer then if it came to that, after the spring of 2024.

But if he did transfer, let's just say he did..... that would be awesome if he could be starting QB at Stanford, and I think he could have a good shot. If he transferred after '23 spring practice, in April/May it would be.....
If Minchey comes in and is as accurate as everyone says and shows out with his opportunities this spring..." I think" Buchner will transfer..... SH in 23'..... Minchey 24-25... then Carr!
 

Golson5

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The fact that you’re looking at their ranking is your issue.
You just said no one would agree with me except Tylers mom. Obviously a lot of people agree with me. Buchners junior film is extremely good. Anyone who watches and doesnt agree is clueless
 

Notre Dame du Lac

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You just said no one would agree with me except Tylers mom. Obviously a lot of people agree with me. Buchners junior film is extremely good. Anyone who watches and doesnt agree is clueless
If he’s better than Minchey then God help us. No way I agree and think Minchey will be a great QB.
 
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You just said no one would agree with me except Tylers mom. Obviously a lot of people agree with me. Buchners junior film is extremely good. Anyone who watches and doesnt agree is clueless
I'm with you, I'm pulling for Tyler, I think offense will be more dynamic with what he has to offer. He just lacks experience, but I'm impressed with what I seen from him and excited. My opinion is he'll start next year.
 
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Telx1

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I was blown away by Buchner’s pocket presence against South Carolina. He stayed in the pocket and made several great throws with a defender right in his face. Really impressive. And then he made several non forced poor throws where accuracy was the issue. I tend to think QBs accuracy is pretty much set in stone by college, and so I suspect this will always be a weakness. Pulling for Buchner to be the exception.
 

Golson5

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I was blown away by Buchner’s pocket presence against South Carolina. He stayed in the pocket and made several great throws with a defender right in his face. Really impressive. And then he made several non forced poor throws where accuracy was the issue. I tend to think QBs accuracy is pretty much set in stone by college, and so I suspect this will always be a weakness. Pulling for Buchner to be the exception.
This is inaccurate as I've shown many many example of qbs improving their accuracy including our own BQ
 

Notre Dame du Lac

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This is inaccurate as I've shown many many example of qbs improving their accuracy including our own BQ
He has not improved his accuracy at all since the Elite 11 when he was in HS. So is he going to miraculously improve it while Hartman plays all of 2023? Rees does not work with QB's on arm motion once they leave HS as he stated in the past.
 

Golson5

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He has not improved his accuracy at all since the Elite 11 when he was in HS. So is he going to miraculously improve it while Hartman plays all of 2023? Rees does not work with QB's on arm motion once they leave HS as he stated in the past.
He had a great season after the elite 11. Hes going to play a good amount whether he starts or Hartman starts
 
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NDinNJ

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I agree about Buchner. But all bets are off. If Buckner stays in 23 there are zero guarantees he can beat out minchey or Carr. Buchner seems to have the same problem Book and Pyne had - does not see the open man and surveys the routes. He has gotten better but inexcusable as a top tier QB does not miss that. Whether it was Lenny at end of q2 vs Marshall or countless other open receivers, he has sucked

The problem is everyone is comparing Buchner's college transcript at ND vs Minchey's and Carr's High School transcripts. Let's see what they do against D1 competition before we crown anyone a starter. Buchner will continu e to improve, Minchey and Carr have to learn the playbook first.
 
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NDinNJ

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One thing is certain. 2 years from now we won’t miss Pyne or Buchner. We are upping the talent at the position and it’s not even close.
Minchey and Carr have yet to throw a college pass. Let's wait and see how they develop. The jump from high school to D1 college football is almost as big a jump from college to the NFL.
 

Notre Dame du Lac

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Minchey and Carr have yet to throw a college pass. Let's wait and see how they develop. The jump from high school to D1 college football is almost as big a jump from college to the NFL.
No chance they’re worse than why we had in 2022.
 

NDinNJ

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No chance they’re worse than why we had in 2022.
How many freshman and sophomores do you see starting and playing well at the P5 level? very few. Minchey is not one that will start day one or even in year 2 unless Buchner transfers, gets hurt, or fails to develop. Even then, Minchey is going to have his hands full trying to beat out Angeli.

You are setting yourself up for major disappointment if you think Minchey is going to just step in and excel.
Carr possibly, but it's too early to tell.
 
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Telx1

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This is inaccurate as I've shown many many example of qbs improving their accuracy including our own BQ
Troy Aikman: “I think as a quarterback when you’re inaccurate, from my experience as a player in studying these guys for the last 17 years, you usually do not overcome that.” Of course there are exceptions, which is what I hope for Buchner.
 
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Notre Dame du Lac

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Troy Aikman: “I think as a quarterback when you’re inaccurate, from my experience as a player in studying these guys for the last 17 years, you usually do not overcome that.” Of course there are exceptions, which is what I hope for Buchner.
But if you think this you’re dumb and don’t know anything about football according to our resident name caller.
 

Harpo Marxist

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He has not improved his accuracy at all since the Elite 11 when he was in HS. So is he going to miraculously improve it while Hartman plays all of 2023? Rees does not work with QB's on arm motion once they leave HS as he stated in the past.
Buchner's "accuracy" is also tied to the speed of the game and college level of talent on both offense and defense vs. high school. The margin for error is smaller...and that helps to separate good from great quarterbacks. There is a world of difference between Buchner and Hartman with game experience at both the high school and college level. Experience is the x factor next year, imo.
 

Golson5

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Troy Aikman: “I think as a quarterback when you’re inaccurate, from my experience as a player in studying these guys for the last 17 years, you usually do not overcome that.” Of course there are exceptions, which is what I hope for Buchner.
There's more than exceptions. There is many many many examples. He studied nfl qbs as well, not college freshman
 
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mirer03

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I was blown away by Buchner’s pocket presence against South Carolina. He stayed in the pocket and made several great throws with a defender right in his face. Really impressive. And then he made several non forced poor throws where accuracy was the issue. I tend to think QBs accuracy is pretty much set in stone by college, and so I suspect this will always be a weakness. Pulling for Buchner to be the exception.
Buchners issue with easy throws are correctable with mechanics. His down field accuracy is fine. He pushed a lot high early in the sc game but 1. He had a lot of big hands in his face until the ots caught up to the sc ends 2. First start in months.

You are correct that down field accuracy likely isn't going to change, but short field misses can absolutely be fixed. He didn't set his feet and short armed a bunch of balls. That would come with reps and QB coaching.
 

mirer03

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Buchner's "accuracy" is also tied to the speed of the game and college level of talent on both offense and defense vs. high school. The margin for error is smaller...and that helps to separate good from great quarterbacks. There is a world of difference between Buchner and Hartman with game experience at both the high school and college level. Experience is the x factor next year, imo.
Note.... Wake let Hartman develop with reps on the field. This is desperately needed with Buchner. Hartman as a freshmen and sophomore wasn't setting the world on fire. His biggest jump was after his 3rd year playing and 22 games played. Prior to that Hartman had 15 ints.... He then had 14 and 12 picks his last two years. Both Hartman and Buchner throw to spots and make wrs make plays. It's going to result in ints.
 

Notre Dame du Lac

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Note.... Wake let Hartman develop with reps on the field. This is desperately needed with Buchner. Hartman as a freshmen and sophomore wasn't setting the world on fire. His biggest jump was after his 3rd year playing and 22 games played. Prior to that Hartman had 15 ints.... He then had 14 and 12 picks his last two years. Both Hartman and Buchner throw to spots and make wrs make plays. It's going to result in ints.
Top 10 programs don’t lose games for the sake of letting quarterbacks get game reps. Perhaps he can play some mop up. I agree this has to be a priority for the next man in but if the staff doesn’t see progress in his accuracy over time then they need to give those reps to Minchey or Angeli. If Buchner is the starter in 2024 then we are once again 1 hit away from playing a guy that has 0 game reps and/or looking to the portal. Buchner has been hurt as many times as he’s thrown touchdowns. I am fairly confident he cannot make it through an entire season.
 

stu4don

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If I'm TB I stay this year... Get into games in some creative packages and in mop-up time. Then I'm starter in '24. If '23 doesn't go as planned. Transfer to Stanford with 2-3 years of eligibility left (and a nice fat Stanford Grad Degree, which will come in handy if the NFL isn't an option.) I really like Tyler. Best running QB I've seen at ND (yes, better than Wimbush and Book) kid can cut on a dime... I'd use him as a receiver, or a option guy this year while SH is in the game! Tommy needs to be creative with TB.
 
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Get Nasty

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If I'm TB I stay this year... Get into games in some creative packages and in mop-up time. Then I'm starter in '24. If '23 doesn't go as planned. Transfer to Stanford with 2-3 years of eligibility left (and a nice fat Stanford Grad Degree, which will come in handy if the NFL isn't an option.) I really like Tyler. Best running QB I've seen at ND (yes, better than Wimbush and Book) kid can cut on a dime... I'd use him as a receiver, or an option guy this year while SH is in the game! Tommy needs to be creative with TB.
Agree on all accounts other than better runner than wimbush. Wimbush had 800 yards rushing on 6 ypc in 12 games. I think Buchner can get to 14 tds if he’s full time starter in 24 but would be shocked if he ever runs for that many yards due to injuries. I’d think 500 would be probably max I could see.
 

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Buchner's running ability behind these tackles and tight ends is something serious. It's a big part of the offense when Buchner is healthy. I don't see the arrival of Sam Hartman changing any of that.

Buchner overwhelmed South Carolina and looked like an offensive force opening up huge rushing lanes with the RPO despite some of the bad throws and bad luck with a tipped pass. Some players take longer to develop other parts of their game. I really like Buchner's intangibles on top of the dynamic arm/legs combo. He plays hard and focused and doesn't let the ups and downs of the game effect his mental-state. It's really awesome to witness; when he tucks and runs with the football, he looks like an I-formation running back and he hits defenders hard and falls forward.

With some progress this off-season, and another year for physical and mental maturity, I really hope he continues to grow and has yet another level to his game (especially as a passer).

It's really hard to get QB reps as a true freshman, and Buchner was able to carve out a role even after a potential NFL QB like Coan transferred in, I think that speaks a lot to how much confidence the coaching staff has in his ability.

The program desperately needs a several season stop gap at QB who has a lot of upside to overcome other position groups that lack star power and upside at Notre Dame. Buchner is the much better bet to provide that than Hartman is, even as soon as 2023.
 
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tbone3114

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Buchner's running ability behind these tackles and tight ends is something serious. It's a big part of the offense when Buchner is healthy. I don't see the arrival of Sam Hartman changing any of that.

Buchner overwhelmed South Carolina and looked like an offensive force opening up huge rushing lanes with the RPO despite some of the bad throws and bad luck with a tipped pass. Some players take longer to develop other parts of their game. I really like Buchner's intangibles on top of the dynamic arm/legs combo. He plays hard and focused and doesn't let the ups and downs of the game effect his mental-state. It's really awesome to witness; when he tucks and runs with the football, he looks like an I-formation running back and he hits defenders hard and falls forward.

With some progress this off-season, and another year for physical and mental maturity, I really hope he continues to grow and has yet another level to his game (especially as a passer).

It's really hard to get QB reps as a true freshman, and Buchner was able to carve out a role even after a potential NFL QB like Coan transferred in, I think that speaks a lot to how much confidence the coaching staff has in his ability.

The program desperately needs a several season stop gap at QB who has a lot of upside to overcome other position groups that lack star power and upside at Notre Dame. Buchner is the much better bet to provide that than Hartman is, even as soon as 2023.
When you have a QB like SH who can throw it... couple that with the running game ND has ...he DOES NOT NEED TO RUN! TB has to run.. he either misses passes or can't read the D quickly enough...hopefully with more time in that changes because TB is a great athlete!!!
 
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When you have a QB like SH who can throw it... couple that with the running game ND has ...he DOES NOT NEED TO RUN! TB has to run.. he either misses passes or can't read the D quickly enough...hopefully with more time in that changes because TB is a great athlete!!!
Presuming Hartman wins the QB1 job, I wonder if Rees designs a redzone/short yardage package for Buchner. Dual threat QBs can put a lot of stress on a defense when the field shrinks. Helps RBs too since LB/DE hesitate with threat of a real Read Option. And Buchner is a real threat.

Ideally the package would let him be a true dual threat, not a one dimensional run-only package like he had behind Coan. And also avoiding dumb play calls like the Gator bowl INT. Rees should want to get TB real experience but coach him to take better care of the ball.

Might be that Hartman's back shoulder accuracy with fades/pick plays to 6'5 Colzie and Evans and 6'4 Merriweather are more efficient RZ looks than a Buchner package, but I'd like to see Rees flesh it out in practice at least.
 

savvyandsassier

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I don't know if there's going to be packages for TB. We brought SH to win, so we could win games. Like, no more 8-4 seasons. And that's the imperative. So of course it's totally possible, but I'm just thinking they're going to be erring on the side of winning, winning now.... and not on coming up with creative ways to get their backup QB playing time. And that's definitely lower on the priority list. Especially if it's not needed. And the situation doesn't require a special package if/when SH pretty has it under control and we're winning...

Certainly in blowout wins we can get him in there for the fourth quarter. The one dynamic that could be different though is the transfer threat. And maybe he gets more PT as a concession to that new reality on the CFB scene. And certain coaches could be motivated to be more proactive about that. It's one thing to stick with your starting QB, in good conscience, and you do your job and win the game as a coach and you trust your starter. But if you do it that way, and then your backup QB who you were counting on for next season ends up flying the coop.... then maybe you try to get ahead of that. In a way that you wouldn't otherwise do and weren't planning on and don't really don't want to do as a coach, but now you're going to do it anyway to preempt a transfer you don't want to suffer from later.

So maybe it could go that way too....
 
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I don't know if there's going to be packages for TB. We brought SH to win, so we could win games. Like, no more 8-4 seasons. And that's the imperative. So of course it's totally possible, but I'm just thinking they're going to be erring on the side of winning, winning now.... and not on coming up with creative ways to get their backup QB playing time. And that's definitely lower on the priority list. Especially if it's not needed. And the situation doesn't require a special package if/when SH pretty has it under control and we're winning...

Certainly in blowout wins we can get him in there for the fourth quarter. The one dynamic that could be different though is the transfer threat. And maybe he gets more PT as a concession to that new reality on the CFB scene. And certain coaches could be motivated to be more proactive about that. It's one thing to stick with your starting QB, in good conscience, and you do your job and win the game as a coach and you trust your starter. But if you do it that way, and then your backup QB who you were counting on for next season ends up flying the coop.... then maybe you try to get ahead of that. In a way that you wouldn't otherwise do and weren't planning on and don't really don't want to do as a coach, but now you're going to do it anyway to preempt a transfer you don't want to suffer from later.

So maybe it could go that way too....
Yeah I'd rather win with Hartman than get too cute/clever trying to appease Buchner, but still think it's worth experimenting at least through Spring practice.

Getting off to early leads with Hartman in the first 4 games would help. Give Buchner multiple drives a game even if it's in garbage time. Would be nice if Hartman didn't have to play a 4th quarter until Ohio State.
 

Notre Dame du Lac

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Yeah I'd rather win with Hartman than get too cute/clever trying to appease Buchner, but still think it's worth experimenting at least through Spring practice.

Getting off to early leads with Hartman in the first 4 games would help. Give Buchner multiple drives a game even if it's in garbage time. Would be nice if Hartman didn't have to play a 4th quarter until Ohio State.
I agree with this. However, if Buchner does not seem to be improving his accuracy over time, then I give those reps to Angeli or Minchey. I start with Buchner as the backup, give him the second most reps and expect actual data driven growth in terms of assessing his accuracy and decision making. If no significant growth in his passing skills, move on. Last thing we need is to go into 2024 with a group of inexperienced QB's and the only one with actual game experience being the guy that we need to replace.
 

1Redrum

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I agree with this. However, if Buchner does not seem to be improving his accuracy over time, then I give those reps to Angeli or Minchey. I start with Buchner as the backup, give him the second most reps and expect actual data driven growth in terms of assessing his accuracy and decision making. If no significant growth in his passing skills, move on. Last thing we need is to go into 2024 with a group of inexperienced QB's and the only one with actual game experience being the guy that we need to replace.
You mean like this year? Just keep playing portal roulette. Look....either Minchey, Buchner or Angeli are transferring eventually. If Buchner wins starting job in 2024 is it for one year or two? Carr....starts year three or is he the starter his second year? if Minchey surpases Buchner in 2024 Buchner leaves....but then what about Carr?

At the end of the day just keep winning and try to get even more competition. The only thing I know for sure is if you are #2 at ND you will likely be #1 sometime during the season. It is very rare for a QB to start every minute of every game (not including mop up time) due to injuries.
 

Notre Dame du Lac

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You mean like this year? Just keep playing portal roulette. Look....either Minchey, Buchner or Angeli are transferring eventually. If Buchner wins starting job in 2024 is it for one year or two? Carr....starts year three or is he the starter his second year? if Minchey surpases Buchner in 2024 Buchner leaves....but then what about Carr?

At the end of the day just keep winning and try to get even more competition. The only thing I know for sure is if you are #2 at ND you will likely be #1 sometime during the season. It is very rare for a QB to start every minute of every game (not including mop up time) due to injuries.
Minchey, Buchner, Carr won't stick around to play career backup. If Buchner looks like the future of the program and a top 10, elite QB, then make him happy and tell him he's without a doubt the starter in 2024 and we aren't taking transfers. Get him on the field in just about every game all season unless it's a nail biter. If he's not that guy and he's not going to win a championship, then dump his ass and get Minchey the reps and get him ready to duke it out with CJ. We don't need a mediocre QB taking all the reps and losing big games in 2024.
 

savvyandsassier

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Yeah I'd rather win with Hartman than get too cute/clever trying to appease Buchner, but still think it's worth experimenting at least through Spring practice.

Getting off to early leads with Hartman in the first 4 games would help. Give Buchner multiple drives a game even if it's in garbage time. Would be nice if Hartman didn't have to play a 4th quarter until Ohio State.
Well, that's typically how coaches/teams seem to like to do it, to invest in the starter, and he gets all the prep, and the attention and the coaching. And that's one of the most bedrock received wisdoms in the sport of football. If you have two starting QB then you don't have any. However true or not that really is. But with the new transfer rule, maybe that wisdom, and the usual practices employed when it comes to handling your QB and the QB position will change somewhat. And backup, understudy QBs will be more actively involved, to help get them more invested in staying, or at least wanting to stay, and not just pop off and transfer all free and easy, and maybe they'll have more to lose by leaving than they might realize.... Something like that....

Bottom line I would say SH was brought in to start, pretty obviously. That doesn't mean that's exactly how it will play out, only that our coaches would be very content if it did play out that way, and we ended up making the playoff if things go really well. And it will be quite interesting to see how this develops, needless to say....
 
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Well, that's typically how coaches/teams seem to like to do it, to invest in the starter, and he gets all the prep, and the attention and the coaching. And that's one of the most bedrock received wisdoms in the sport of football. If you have two starting QB then you don't have any. However true or not that really is. But with the new transfer rule, maybe that wisdom, and the usual practices employed when it comes to handling your QB and the QB position will change somewhat. And backup, understudy QBs will be more actively involved, to help get them more invested in staying, or at least wanting to stay, and not just pop off and transfer all free and easy, and maybe they'll have more to lose by leaving than they might realize.... Something like that....

Bottom line I would say SH was brought in to start, pretty obviously. That doesn't mean that's exactly how it will play out, only that our coaches would be very content if it did play out that way, and we ended up making the playoff if things go really well. And it will be quite interesting to see how this develops, needless to say....
The challenge here of course being the desire to maximize Hartman's preparation as QB1 and prioritize his reps over all else, which presumably gives us the best chance to win in 2023.

But also recognizing that the new state of QBs and the portal means that Buchner is a transfer risk if he's impatient being QB2, particularly until the May transfer window closes.

So even if Freeman knows he's rolling with Hartman from the jump, he has to "play the game" a little bit and keep Buchner engaged through the spring practices at a minimum. This is all assuming that he wants Buchner as his QB1 in 2024. If not, just swap in Minchey or Angeli for this.

That might mean delaying official announcement of the starter until June, or giving Buchner enough first-team reps in Spring to keep him happy. Which means possibly taking some first-team reps away from Hartman, something we don't want. Freeman has to figure out the correct balance, the exact minimum number of reps he can steal from Hartman needed to retain Buchner.

I think it's fine for this spring but this "try to feed all the mouths" at QB thing might become an annual game teams play in spring practice. All the more reason to keep adding excess talent to the room, even if it means someone is more likely to transfer. Can't be scared to add more talent due to fears someone MIGHT transfer - news flash, they already might.
 

bizzybecknd

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Troy Aikman: “I think as a quarterback when you’re inaccurate, from my experience as a player in studying these guys for the last 17 years, you usually do not overcome that.” Of course there are exceptions, which is what I hope for Buchner.
The throws he missed were not accuracy issues, they were of the yips. He made a accurate throws 20 yards down the field numerous times against SC but tipped a few screens/short ones into the dirt- to me thats not a Quarterback who is inaccurate but had some yips, that can be cleaned up. Those are the easy ones
 
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