Jim Cheney goes all Elko on Georgia

[Bumpdaddy]

1. Not sure the premise Graham "job hopped" is even true. He spent 4 years at Tulsa, left for Pitt for 1 year, and then spent 6 years at ASU and got fired from there because his last 3 years were disappointing. Each year he left for arguably a better job and definitely a better offer until he got fired. The only job he really bounced from was Pitt after a year for ASU. Him not getting another job after ASU may be his reputation but I am going to guess the bigger factor is that he doesn't want a coordinator position and he hasn't been willing to interview at lower level schools(G5) he was a finalist at KU this past year though.

2. Everything you are talking about here is different then the argument that was being made initially. I think we can all agree that you shouldn't be an asshole in business. I think where we disagree is that I do not believe that Elko making decision to take a new offer that was better then what ND gave him makes him an asshole in and of itself. Additionally I do not believe there is any ethical or moral principle that Elko violated that would suggest what he did was bad.

3. This is definitely selective outrage because in the 3 examples you provided no one here cares about that shit. In fact, Petrino, before the debacle that was last year was considered by many on this board as well as nationally to be a good coach independent of him being a dick. No one on this board gets mad at that stuff, and no one on this board cares or is even really mad at Cheney for the situation between him and UGA. The only reason anyone here cares is because it reminds them of Elko and ND. This tells me that (a) people only really care about the Elko situation because they believe that ND got screwed and (b) that if people only care because ND is involved then the probability that what Elko did is ethically/morally wrong is minimal.

1. I think the Pittsburg situation is what gave Graham the reputation and it was a reputation he earned whether you want to acknowledge it or not. And it is good that you included the word "arguably" in your assessment that each job was arguably a step up. I think moving from Pitt to ASU after only 1 year is not a step up although, arguably, it could be depending on what one values. Pitt is the more storied program between the two even if they've been mediocre at best over the last 15 years or so. I think most people thought it was a lateral move and most considered it a dick move at the time.

2. I've talked about the initial argument - Elko was a dick for accepting ND's very high offer and then continued to take phone calls - so it's not like I'm dodging that aspect of the outrage, I'm just pointing out that there is a different way of looking at what Elko did that may be easier for some people to relate to in the real world. After all, that is what Telx1 was asserting; that we see people like Elko in the real world and he was implying most of us are OK with it. I disagree and I think most people do too. Maybe "job-hopper" isn't a term that is as widely used as I think. Regardless, I think we have all known coworkers, supervisors, managers, and executives who could never quite get both feet inside the door and we don't think that's OK. We normally think those people are shitty employees. Just so we're clear, no one begrudges anyone who leaves a job for a promotion. No one begrudges anyone for accepting a higher paying job after working in their current position for a reasonable amount of time. But most do begrudge people who continue to take phone calls and entertain other offers immediately after agreeing to terms with their current employer. And this isn't just a pissed-off-ND-fan thing. I think most people feel this way. In real time, this is what the former co-owner and GM of the Dallas Mavs, Frank Zaccanelli, said about Elko when he left for A&M. As far as I know, he is not at all affiliated with ND:

"It may not be illegal. It may not be, in his mind, wrong. But what he’s done is unethical. [Notre Dame did] the right thing.They sat him down and said, ‘OK. Maybe we missed this. We’re going to give you even more money. We want you to stay. We think you’re a great employee... If the employee says, ‘Yes. I accept. I’m going to stay,’ then that’s the end of it. If the employee went back and took it to another round, I would say that the employee is not being trustworthy and that would be an ex-employee in one of my operations. If I was [Texas A&M] and he came to me a second time, that’d be game over. It’s obvious now this guy is in the auction business. And if Notre Dame can’t trust you, how the hell am I going to trust you?”
(Here's a link: https://www.onefootdown.com/2018/1/...experts-texas-am-aggies-defensive-coordinator)
​

So Zaccanelli appears to have been "outraged" by Elko's actions and he isn't even associated with ND. And before you say, "who the hell is Frank Zaccanelli and why would anyone care what he says," remember, the point you and Telx1 are trying to make is that we outraged ND fans are being selective in our outrage. I took that to mean that we are only outraged because it happened to us and that if someone else did it to some other team we would think that it is OK, but a former NBA GM was also "outraged" at Elko and he isn't even affiliated with ND. Granted, I realize ND fans are certainly less aware of similar situations when they happen to other teams because they don't follow those teams nor care to, but if a specific incident comes up and we look at the details, I think most of us will be consistent and say, "hey, that Georgia coach just screwed over Georgia. What an asshole!." And if we exploit that example by then using it as a way to further drag Elko, so be it. And if we are being obsessive about Elko in doing so, then what are you doing by trying to police everyone who tries to call Elko an asshole? Aren't you being just as obsessive but in the other direction?

3. Saying that many on this board viewed Petrino as an asshole but would still hire him doesn't prove your point at all. No one is saying Elko is a bad coach. A coach can be an unethical asshole and be good at his job at the same time. When the topic is "that asshole thing that that asshole coach did" we should be able to talk about that asshole coach without having to stop just because he might also be a good coach. Also, the word "many" is doing a lot of work in your claim that "many on this board wanted Petrino." Many certainly doesn't mean most, and it doesn't even imply that holding that view is reasonable. In fact, I think most reasonable ND fans never seriously considered Petrino to be a suitable coaching candidate.

And your overall point is baseless too. While 99% of the topics on this board are certainly ND related, as anyone would expect, many posters do bring up hot topics that concern other teams and even other sports and a lot of posters express their opinions on those topics. So you are wrong to imply that if it doesn't pertain to ND then no one cares, but even if you were right about that point, it wouldn't then be true that just because ND fans only talk about ND topics they can't be objective when it comes to a coach that might have screwed them over. I think many of us can be objective in assessing what Elko did. You are trying to dismiss our arguments offhand by implying that we only think he was an asshole because he did it to us. That isn't true. Would we be pissed off it happened to someone else? Probably not, but we wouldn't think it was OK. We would consider anyone who did what Elko did to be a shitty employee.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

1. I think the Pittsburg situation is what gave Graham the reputation and it was a reputation he earned whether you want to acknowledge it or not. And it is good that you included the word "arguably" in your assessment that each job was arguably a step up. I think moving from Pitt to ASU after only 1 year is not a step up although, arguably, it could be depending on what one values. Pitt is the more storied program between the two even if they've been mediocre at best over the last 15 years or so. I think most people thought it was a lateral move and most considered it a dick move at the time.

2. I've talked about the initial argument - Elko was a dick for accepting ND's very high offer and then continued to take phone calls - so it's not like I'm dodging that aspect of the outrage, I'm just pointing out that there is a different way of looking at what Elko did that may be easier for some people to relate to in the real world. After all, that is what Telx1 was asserting; that we see people like Elko in the real world and he was implying most of us are OK with it. I disagree and I think most people do too. Maybe "job-hopper" isn't a term that is as widely used as I think. Regardless, I think we have all known coworkers, supervisors, managers, and executives who could never quite get both feet inside the door and we don't think that's OK. We normally think those people are shitty employees. Just so we're clear, no one begrudges anyone who leaves a job for a promotion. No one begrudges anyone for accepting a higher paying job after working in their current position for a reasonable amount of time. But most do begrudge people who continue to take phone calls and entertain other offers immediately after agreeing to terms with their current employer. And this isn't just a pissed-off-ND-fan thing. I think most people feel this way. In real time, this is what the former co-owner and GM of the Dallas Mavs, Frank Zaccanelli, said about Elko when he left for A&M. As far as I know, he is not at all affiliated with ND:

"It may not be illegal. It may not be, in his mind, wrong. But what he’s done is unethical. [Notre Dame did] the right thing.They sat him down and said, ‘OK. Maybe we missed this. We’re going to give you even more money. We want you to stay. We think you’re a great employee... If the employee says, ‘Yes. I accept. I’m going to stay,’ then that’s the end of it. If the employee went back and took it to another round, I would say that the employee is not being trustworthy and that would be an ex-employee in one of my operations. If I was [Texas A&M] and he came to me a second time, that’d be game over. It’s obvious now this guy is in the auction business. And if Notre Dame can’t trust you, how the hell am I going to trust you?”
(Here's a link: https://www.onefootdown.com/2018/1/...experts-texas-am-aggies-defensive-coordinator)
​

So Zaccanelli appears to have been "outraged" by Elko's actions and he isn't even associated with ND. And before you say, "who the hell is Frank Zaccanelli and why would anyone care what he says," remember, the point you and Telx1 are trying to make is that we outraged ND fans are being selective in our outrage. I took that to mean that we are only outraged because it happened to us and that if someone else did it to some other team we would think that it is OK, but a former NBA GM was also "outraged" at Elko and he isn't even affiliated with ND. Granted, I realize ND fans are certainly less aware of similar situations when they happen to other teams because they don't follow those teams nor care to, but if a specific incident comes up and we look at the details, I think most of us will be consistent and say, "hey, that Georgia coach just screwed over Georgia. What an asshole!." And if we exploit that example by then using it as a way to further drag Elko, so be it. And if we are being obsessive about Elko in doing so, then what are you doing by trying to police everyone who tries to call Elko an asshole? Aren't you being just as obsessive but in the other direction?

3. Saying that many on this board viewed Petrino as an asshole but would still hire him doesn't prove your point at all. No one is saying Elko is a bad coach. A coach can be an unethical asshole and be good at his job at the same time. When the topic is "that asshole thing that that asshole coach did" we should be able to talk about that asshole coach without having to stop just because he might also be a good coach. Also, the word "many" is doing a lot of work in your claim that "many on this board wanted Petrino." Many certainly doesn't mean most, and it doesn't even imply that holding that view is reasonable. In fact, I think most reasonable ND fans never seriously considered Petrino to be a suitable coaching candidate.

And your overall point is baseless too. While 99% of the topics on this board are certainly ND related, as anyone would expect, many posters do bring up hot topics that concern other teams and even other sports and a lot of posters express their opinions on those topics. So you are wrong to imply that if it doesn't pertain to ND then no one cares, but even if you were right about that point, it wouldn't then be true that just because ND fans only talk about ND topics they can't be objective when it comes to a coach that might have screwed them over. I think many of us can be objective in assessing what Elko did. You are trying to dismiss our arguments offhand by implying that we only think he was an asshole because he did it to us. That isn't true. Would we be pissed off it happened to someone else? Probably not, but we wouldn't think it was OK. We would consider anyone who did what Elko did to be a shitty employee.

Lolol TLR... agree to disagree i guess. It's the weekend boys be safe and avoid those bookings.

 

[shabak]

One thing about Elko is he was a hell of a recruiter, look at the class he put together in his 1 year and what he's doing at A&M.

Mickey Mouse could out recruit Notre Dame considering that your pool of athletes couldn't even get past admissions, where the athletes can take bogus majors obtaining bogus degrees, where you probably don't have to go to class, and we can go on and on. Notre Dame has higher standards then Texas A&M and probably all the SEC schools combined

 

[SIhoosier26]

Mickey Mouse could out recruit Notre Dame considering that your pool of athletes couldn't even get past admissions, where the athletes can take bogus majors obtaining bogus degrees, where you probably don't have to go to class, and we can go on and on. Notre Dame has higher standards then Texas A&M and probably all the SEC schools combined

In Elko's 1 year at Notre Dame he landed 6 top 100 recruits in the defense and a bunch more in the top 300. Every program outside of the top 5 or so would absolutely take that.