Is there any chance ND goes rogue here

Golson5

I've posted how many times?
Apr 15, 2019
14,484
7,374
113
How many NC’s did Clemson win prior to 6 years ago? When is the last OK championship?
Are we playing now or in the past?

I'm going to assume we will field a team made up of current players and not Rocket and Timmy Brown

The best programs right now are

Bama
Clemson
Georgia
OSU

We are trying to get to that next tier. We've been tier 2 the last 5 years with Oklahoma and some others.

But those 4 are the elites
 

john0gaunt

ND Expert
Oct 11, 2004
1,677
419
83
Are we playing now or in the past?

I'm going to assume we will field a team made up of current players and not Rocket and Timmy Brown

The best programs right now are

Bama
Clemson
Georgia
OSU

We are trying to get to that next tier. We've been tier 2 the last 5 years with Oklahoma and some others.

But those 4 are the elites
Cool story. But you didn't answer the question.
 

4-4-3

Posts Like A Champion
Gold Member
Jan 29, 2003
3,436
1,181
113
"Bama" as you call them were irrelevant for 30 years before hiring Saban. OSU has been irrelevant for the last 20 years other than one NC with Urban. Clemson? Won 2 championships in the last 6 years. Previous 100 years? 1. And OU? Haven't won an NC in over 20 years. You want to redesign the entire college sports structure around those 4 teams? That's the definition of short sighted.

You only restated the thesis I made in my original thread post. Then claimed that the entire college sports should be redesigned based on the recent success of 4 teams.

All the while you ignore the original claim I made in the original post that CBS and NBC would sit idly by and allow it to happen. None of your 12,000 word posts have really made any sense at all other that reinforce your belief that seems to be ND should join the B1G. I continue to hope that doesn't happen and believe there is a good chance ESPN and Fox have made a big mistake here.
I’m talking about the CFB landscape today, not what BAMA did before Saban.

That I chose to mention BAMA along with other currently successful programs, such as OSU, Clemson and OU is because they comprise TODAY’S COMPETITION.

If some RADICAL ROTATION OCCURS AMONG THE PREMIER TEAMS, then ND will then have to PLAY THOSE TEAMS if it’s to win an NC.

That said, the MAJOR POWERS have remained remarkably consistent over time. Despite periodic eclipses, EACH OF THE TOP TEN HAS – BY AND LARGE – REMAINED PRETTY CONSISTENTLY WITHIN THE TOP TEN.

CHECK OUT THE NUMBERS.

By the way, if you stick STRICTLY to your THIRTY YEAR WINDOW, BAMA before Saban won 3 NC’s, had 12 double digit win seasons and 11 top ten finishes. Its winning percentage, while not great compared with what it’s done more recently, was still about 70%.

And even if you exclude the 78 and 79 NC seasons as OUTSIDE your 30 YEAR WINDOW (Saban arrived in 07), there was still the 92 NC. So, we’re not talking anything close to ND’s OWN DROUGHT.

As for OSU, it currently owns the HIGHEST ALL-TIME WINNING PERCENTAGE. Even as the team they have now REFLECTS THAT SAME ENDURING PROWESS. ND USED to hold that crown.

But then, I’m not sure what your point was.

Because to win an NC today does not require ND lining against a GENE STALLINGS or DENNIS FRANCHIONE BAMA team, but “MAY” very well require it to BEAT ONE COACHED BY NICK SABAN.

The same could be true as respects OSU and Clemson -- or OU should ND wind up playing it.

Fact is, if ND not only DOESN’T PLAY TEAMS OF THAT ILK REGULARLY BUT ALSO – IF AND WHEN IT DOES PLAY THEM – DOESN’T BEAT THEM, IT’s BYE-BYE NC IN PERPETUITY.

As much fun as it may be playing BYU, V-Tech, Washington State, Vandy or whichever other teams may get left out in the cold by SUPERCONFERENCE REALIGNMENT, it won’t be as USEFUL as playing THE BEST TEAMS. In fact, HOW IS IT WORTH IT AT ALL?

As for my restating your thesis, I DON’T ACTUALLY REMEMBER WHAT YOUR THESIS WAS.

And as for my redesigning CFB on the basis of four teams – first, they were only examples of CURRENTLY POWERFUL TEAMS; and second, I’M NOT REDESIGING ANYTHING.

I’m merely arguing that ND should JOIN A CONFERENCE ALREADY so as to SIMPLIFY THE PROCESS of playing against THE BEST COMPETITION so as to thereby SECURE FOR ITSELF as often as possible A PLAYOFF BERTH.

In other words, I’VE SEEN ENOUGH ANGELS DANCING ON THE HEAD OF THE PIN CALLED INDEPENDENCE. Unless it DEMONSTRABLY BRINGS IN MORE BUCKS, why is it STILL NEEDED?

Seems it has become for many a CHERISHED VESTIGE.

As for CBS and NBC – right, THEY WON’T SIT IDLY BY. I didn’t think it required my AFFIRMATION to be a valid observation. I thought it, in fact, SELF-EVIDENT. But I certainly didn’t “IGNORE” IT, even as I'm not ignoring it NOW.

As for my posts, IF THEY DON’T MAKE SENSE TO YOU, WHY READ THEM? I mean, you're reading "12,000 word posts" that make no sense at all?

You should RETHINK THAT.
 
Last edited:

sjb75

BlueandGold All Star
Gold Member
Jul 27, 2004
71,118
24,435
113
I’m talking about the CFB landscape today, not what BAMA did before Saban.

That I chose to mention BAMA along with other currently successful programs, such as OSU, Clemson and OU, is because they comprise TODAY’S COMPETITION.

If some RADICAL ROTATION OCCURS AMONG THE PREMIER TEAMS, then ND will then have to PLAY THOSE TEAMS if it’s to win an NC.

That said, the MAJOR POWERS have remained remarkably consistent over time. Despite periodic eclipses, EACH OF THE TOP TEN HAS – BY AND LARGE – REMAINED PRETTY CONSISTENTLY WITHIN THE TOP TEN.

CHECK OUT THE NUMBERS.

By the way, if you stick STRICTLY to your THIRTY YEAR WINDOW, BAMA before Saban won 3 NC’s, had 12 double digit win seasons and 11 top ten finishes. Its winning percentage, while not great compared what it’s done more recently, was still about 70%.

And even if you exclude the 78 and 79 NC seasons as OUTSIDE your 30 YEAR WINDOW (Saban arrived in 07), there was still the 92 NC. So, we’re not talking anything close to ND’s OWN DROUGHT.

As for OSU, it currently owns the HIGHEST ALL-TIME WINNING PERCENTAGE. Even as the team they have now REFLECTS THAT SAME ENDURING PROWESS. ND USED to hold that crown.

But then, I’m not sure what your point was.

Because to win an NC today does not require ND lining against a GENE STALLINGS or DENNIS FRANCHIONE BAMA team, but “MAY” very well require it to BEAT ONE COACHED BY NICK SABAN.

The same could be true as respects OSU and Clemson -- or OU should ND wind up playing it.

Fact is, if ND not only DOESN’T PLAY TEAMS OF THAT ILK REGULARLY BUT ALSO – IF AND WHEN IT DOES PLAY THEM – DOESN’T BEAT THEM, IT’s BYE-BYE NC IN PERPETUITY.

As much fun as it may be playing BYU, V-Tech, Washington State, Vandy or whichever other teams may get left out in the cold by SUPERCONFERENCE REALIGNMENT, it won’t be as USEFUL as playing THE BEST TEAMS. In fact, HOW IS IT WORTH IT AT ALL?

As for my restating your thesis, I DON’T ACTUALLY REMEMBER WHAT YOUR THESIS WAS.

And as for my redesigning CFB on the basis of four teams – first, they were only examples of CURRENTLY POWERFUL TEAMS; and second, I’M NOT REDESIGING ANYTHING.

I’m merely arguing that ND should JOIN A CONFERENCE ALREADY so as to SIMPLIFY THE PROCESS of playing against THE BEST COMPETITION so as to thereby SECURE FOR ITSELF as often as possible A PLAYOFF BERTH.

In other words, I’VE SEEN ENOUGH ANGELS DANCING ON THE HEAD OF THE PIN CALLED INDEPENDENCE. Unless it DEMONSTRABLY BRINGS IN MORE BUCKS, why is it STILL NEEDED?

Seems it has become for many a CHERISHED VESTIGE.

As for CBS and NBC – right, THEY WON’T SIT IDLY BY. I didn’t think it required my AFFIRMATION to be a valid observation. I thought it, in fact, SELF-EVIDENT. But I certainly didn’t “IGNORE” IT, even as I'm not ignoring it NOW.

As for my posts, IF THEY DON’T MAKE SENSE TO YOU, WHY READ THEM? I mean, your reading "12,000 word posts" that make no sense at all?

You should RETHINK THAT.
Regurgitated garbage.
 

john0gaunt

ND Expert
Oct 11, 2004
1,677
419
83
As for my posts, IF THEY DON’T MAKE SENSE TO YOU, WHY READ THEM?
I read your post because I enjoy reading different opinions. Hence, my presence here on a message board. I read opinions of sc fans, michigan fans, fsu fans, and B1G fans like yourself. It's a rivals board. As for my original thesis, it was stated in the original thread post. That's how message boards work. Here is the argument simply put:

I believe ND should seek out other teams not included in the new "superconferences" in order to remain independent both of the conferences and ESPN/Fox. As you say, I "cherish" the independence. I believe there is plenty of money and will among the other TV players and streaming to make such independence profitable for the schools.

You believe ND must join the B1G and you don't feel independence will be profitable for ND and may eliminate their chance to play for NC's. You may be right.

So far, the ND administration is not jumping at any offers to join either conference. Will they in the future? They are playing their cards close to the vest so we cannot know.

I hope you're wrong, but I don't know. Time will tell.
 

sjb75

BlueandGold All Star
Gold Member
Jul 27, 2004
71,118
24,435
113
I read your post because I enjoy reading different opinions. Hence, my presence here on a message board. I read opinions of sc fans, michigan fans, fsu fans, and B1G fans like yourself. It's a rivals board. As for my original thesis, it was stated in the original thread post. That's how message boards work. Here is the argument simply put:

I believe ND should seek out other teams not included in the new "superconferences" in order to remain independent both of the conferences and ESPN/Fox. As you say, I "cherish" the independence. I believe there is plenty of money and will among the other TV players and streaming to make such independence profitable for the schools.

You believe ND must join the B1G and you don't feel independence will be profitable for ND and may eliminate their chance to play for NC's. You may be right.

So far, the ND administration is not jumping at any offers to join either conference. Will they in the future? They are playing their cards close to the vest so we cannot know.

I hope you're wrong, but I don't know. Time will tell.
Notre Dame wants to be Independent. Period. It’s ingrained in the Brand.

I hope Notre Dame Football is always Independent.

I don’t read 4-4-3. His regurgitated crap is not worth my time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Golson5

john0gaunt

ND Expert
Oct 11, 2004
1,677
419
83
Notre Dame wants to be Independent. Period. It’s ingrained in the Brand.

I hope Notre Dame Football is always Independent.

I don’t read 4-4-3. His regurgitated crap is not worth my time.
Agreed ND wants to be independent and I also hope they remain so. But there are quite a few ND posters that don't agree and prefer to join a conference. 443 represents those posters and gives us all of their arguments in his posts so I can appreciate that. He is insulting sure but I read sc fans, mich fans, fsu and even osu fan posts. I can read posts from a b1g fan also...
 

sjb75

BlueandGold All Star
Gold Member
Jul 27, 2004
71,118
24,435
113
Agreed ND wants to be independent and I also hope they remain so. But there are quite a few ND posters that don't agree and prefer to join a conference. 443 represents those posters and gives us all of their arguments in his posts so I can appreciate that. He is insulting sure but I read sc fans, mich fans, fsu and even osu fan posts. I can read posts from a b1g fan also...
I have no problems reading opponent’s perspectives. None. My problem with 4-4-3 is his incessant, condescending remarks about anything and everything Notre Dame Football.
 

Golson5

I've posted how many times?
Apr 15, 2019
14,484
7,374
113
Our NBC ontract and our Under Armour contract is up soon.

We are going to be coming into a whole lot of cash very shortly.

As long as there is a path to the cfp, all ND fans should want to remain independent
 

tbonesays

I've posted how many times?
Jul 12, 2017
5,367
1,495
113
I have no problems reading opponent’s perspectives. None. My problem with 4-4-3 is his incessant, condescending remarks about anything and everything Notre Dame Football.
I don't find 443 offensive at all, That may be because I read just the first paragraph and skim the next 12.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sjb75

4-4-3

Posts Like A Champion
Gold Member
Jan 29, 2003
3,436
1,181
113
I read your post because I enjoy reading different opinions. Hence, my presence here on a message board. I read opinions of sc fans, michigan fans, fsu fans, and B1G fans like yourself. It's a rivals board. As for my original thesis, it was stated in the original thread post. That's how message boards work. Here is the argument simply put:

I believe ND should seek out other teams not included in the new "superconferences" in order to remain independent both of the conferences and ESPN/Fox. As you say, I "cherish" the independence. I believe there is plenty of money and will among the other TV players and streaming to make such independence profitable for the schools.

You believe ND must join the B1G and you don't feel independence will be profitable for ND and may eliminate their chance to play for NC's. You may be right.

So far, the ND administration is not jumping at any offers to join either conference. Will they in the future? They are playing their cards close to the vest so we cannot know.

I hope you're wrong, but I don't know. Time will tell.
You read my post because, according to you, you “enjoy reading different opinions.” That may be true as a GENERAL STATEMENT. But you already told me that my posts, SPECIFICALLY, are too long and don’t make any sense, so THAT DOG WON’T HUNT, really.

But then, HERE YOU ARE AGAIN, MY LENGTH AND “SENSELESSNESS” NOTWITHSTANDING.

Hey, it’s your dime.

As for me, I’ll ALWAYS respond unless and until SOMEONE ATTACKS ME REPEATEDLY. As it is, there are 6 souls on this board whose SNARK I NO LONGER HAVE TO LISTEN TO.

What a MODERN MARVEL that IGNORE FEATURE is.

But here’s MY QUESTION:

Rather than me give you DOZENS OF INTRICATE, TIME-CONSUMING REASONS why joining the Big Ten or whatever SUPERCONFERENCE DEAL emerges is the EVENTUAL smart play, maybe you could explain to me what is SO COMPELLING about ND remaining INDEPENDENT that makes it something you CHERISH?

And what EXACTLY will be LOST if ND DOESN’T?

And how does that PRESUMED LOSS possibly net out TO THE GOOD against potentially losing the freedom to play TOP-NOTCH COMPETITION and VIE FOR AN NC?

Wasn’t the ORIGINAL POINT to compete at the highest levels and, in fact, didn’t Rockne wish to JOIN the Big Ten? Why is it now such a POISON PILL?

It almost sounds like you’re trying to protect something INVIOLABLE? Which would be WHAT?

WHAT’S THE STORY?
 

john0gaunt

ND Expert
Oct 11, 2004
1,677
419
83
Calm down 443. Mine was only a slight dig at the length of your posts. I really have no problem with them. As for independence, talk to the coach:

“We love being independent,” Freeman said. “Our program was really built on being independent. As long as we can continue to do that, we will.
 

4-4-3

Posts Like A Champion
Gold Member
Jan 29, 2003
3,436
1,181
113
Calm down 443. Mine was only a slight dig at the length of your posts. I really have no problem with them. As for independence, talk to the coach:

“We love being independent,” Freeman said. “Our program was really built on being independent. As long as we can continue to do that, we will.
The thing is, I CAN'T TALK to the coach. Besides, I don't care what HE thinks.

What I'm interested in is why YOU and a HOST OF OTHERS prize INDEPENDENCE SO DEARLY.

As a practical matter in playing football games, it makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE.

So, I'll ask you again -- WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE FOR YOU?

If you don't wish to answer, fine.

As for me, I'm just looking to SIMPLIFY things even as the sport seeks greater EFFICIENCIES. As things become more organized -- particularly around MONEY MAKING -- this is INEVITABLY what happens.

Sooner or later, others get tired of those PLAYING HARD TO GET.

So, why is ND still doing this?
 

john0gaunt

ND Expert
Oct 11, 2004
1,677
419
83
So, I'll ask you again -- WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE FOR YOU?
If you don't wish to answer, fine.
Why wouldn't I answer 443? You seem to be asking a question in good faith, I'm happy to respond.

When you say for ME, I assume you are saying the fact the ND can earn more money keeping it's independence than joining a conference isn't relevant to this conversation. Because, I DO believe that ND could earn more by staying independent. But we'll ignore that. I think with a new NBC deal, plus CBS/NFLX/ND streaming, the school could earn 1.5x to 2x what the conferences are offering.

First, I enjoy that ND can play BC, then FSU, TX, usc, Stanford, UW, and Northwestern in one season. They can traverse the entire US and play in any region of the country. I like that. They control much of their schedule.

Second, I assume you know the history of ND and the b1g. Many of us are Irish Catholics, and we hold our grudges dear to our hearts, and we like to think ND does also. And we like being that way.

So that's about it. Will they end up in a conference? It seems likely they will. But I would prefer they not. It's simple really.
 

4-4-3

Posts Like A Champion
Gold Member
Jan 29, 2003
3,436
1,181
113
Why wouldn't I answer 443? You seem to be asking a question in good faith, I'm happy to respond.

When you say for ME, I assume you are saying the fact the ND can earn more money keeping it's independence than joining a conference isn't relevant to this conversation. Because, I DO believe that ND could earn more by staying independent. But we'll ignore that. I think with a new NBC deal, plus CBS/NFLX/ND streaming, the school could earn 1.5x to 2x what the conferences are offering.

First, I enjoy that ND can play BC, then FSU, TX, usc, Stanford, UW, and Northwestern in one season. They can traverse the entire US and play in any region of the country. I like that. They control much of their schedule.

Second, I assume you know the history of ND and the b1g. Many of us are Irish Catholics, and we hold our grudges dear to our hearts, and we like to think ND does also. And we like being that way.

So that's about it. Will they end up in a conference? It seems likely they will. But I would prefer they not. It's simple really.
Yes, I asked in GOOD FAITH.

And you cited better $$$ (in your view); tradition; and lingering animosity towards the Big Ten.

FAIR ENOUGH.

I also favored ND remaining independent ONCE, but when CFB -- to increase its DOLLAR-HAUL while streamlining the process of determining a CHAMPION -- decided to go FULL FRONTAL PLAYOFFS, it seemed to me that it would make more sense for ND to enter the JOUSTING LISTS the same way as everyone else.

While to remain outside the PLAYOFF PROCESS ALTOGETHER -- just for the sake of INDEPENDENCE -- seemed like a COMPLETE INVERSION OF PRIORITIES. As did, ALTERNATIVELY, insisting on a seat at the table via some SPECIAL EXEMPTION/INCLUSION PROVISO on the basis of just what exactly?

Yet, while NOT SUPPORTING IT, I do GET the tradition/anti-Big Ten argument as my father who IDENTIFIED ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY as IRISH CATHOLIC, lived and breathed that ethic.

But with me, IT NEVER TOOK. While my paternal side has roots in Dublin and Belfast, it also includes significant ancestry in Glasgow, Liverpool and London. And it's that side I identify with with MORE. To me, it's never been solely about Ireland but the British Isles as a whole.

As for the Irish connection to ND, IT IS WHAT IT IS, but nothing I've ever connected with.
 

tbonesays

I've posted how many times?
Jul 12, 2017
5,367
1,495
113
Does anyone think NBC will barter away the right to ND night games cold turkey? Like say SC @ ND, would that count as a BUG10 game and thus be played at night?
 

ivan brunetti

Fighting Irish Fanatic
Nov 27, 2003
2,468
1,087
113
Does anyone think NBC will barter away the right to ND night games cold turkey? Like say SC @ ND, would that count as a BUG10 game and thus be played at night?

SC @ ND would have to be played when NBC had open time for ND home games. So, anywhere from noon to around 4:00 kickoff. ND's night games would only be for away games if it sticks with NBC.