Is there any chance ND goes rogue here

ivan brunetti

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Heavily skewed towards research and scientific institutions, at the expense of universities with robust undergraduate programs. There also seems to be a bias against religious institutions.

But, I agree that UM is one of the best in the country academically.

I wouldn't say it is "at the expense of". Stanford, Harvard, MIT all have fantastic undergrad programs. The difference is, they have excellent grad schools. Where the best of the best study.

I wouldn't have brought it up, except that some dunces in this thread started talking smack.
 

thehellyousay

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I wouldn't say it is "at the expense of". Stanford, Harvard, MIT all have fantastic undergrad programs. The difference is, they have excellent grad schools. Where the best of the best study.

I wouldn't have brought it up, except that some dunces in this thread started talking smack.
wasn't me.
 
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4-4-3

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and creates an independent A(academic)FL type league with some of the left outs? I mean there is Stanford, UW, U of Arizona, Oregon, BYU, maybe Northwestern. Clemson may consider joining. BC and FSU are probably too far away but there must be a couple I'm leaving out that would all create there own league. A number of posters have mentioned this is a play by Fox and ESPN to corner the college game. If so, it's entirely possible CBS/NBC would want a piece of the action. No question usc carved out a ND exception before agreeing to the B1G deal. Also, I don't agree that the players are only interested in getting to the league. Many are interested in an education so they would still have access to the same marquee players. This new league could easily brand themselves a real college experience with classes and everything.
With ND, anything is possible. But such an arrangement runs the almost certain risk of devolving into ALSO-RAN football.

And unless the super-conferences, assuming they exist at that point, a) carve out an at-large berth for the ALSO-RANS and b) do it as part of a broader playoff field -- neither a likely possibility -- ND won't be able to keep saying it plays for the NC EVERY YEAR.

It won't be playing for the NC ANY YEAR.
 
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ftnfan62

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The ACC already is the best conference that has top academic institutions. Duke, Wake, BC, VT. Add ND and you have that conf. Miami (outside of the football players) is also a top university. If you wanted to make a run at it you could add Stanford, UConn and Cal. Add Rice and that conf has every one of the best states for recruiting and top schools.
 

wi_hoosier

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This thread is about creating a rival to the 2 superconferences beginning to appear in CFB consisting of independents and other schools left out by the reshuffling currently underway. A reshuffling that threatens to destroy existing conferences that have been around for many years.

michigan is in the B1G. Their conference is the one looting the PAC12 and they have no intention of leaving the B1G. As such, they are completely irrelevant to this thread. Perhaps you can create a new thread and title it "to the glory of michigan". You have that option.
I get what the thread is about... I was specifically responding to your comment about, "michigan trash haven't been relevant for 25 years."
 

john0gaunt

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I get what you’re saying about also ran, but the ABA and AFL both started out with the same problem but it worked out ok for them. There seems to be many top programs being left out of the new “superconferences.” Also, CBS, NBC may want a seat at the table. And netflix needs content…
 
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4-4-3

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I get what you’re saying about also ran, but the ABA and AFL both started out with the same problem but it worked out ok for them. There seems to be many top programs being left out of the new “superconferences.” Also, CBS, NBC may want a seat at the table. And netflix needs content…
Here's one possible "solution." And it's far from ideal.

If enough teams remain independent or uninvited in by the super-conferences and those teams' former conferences don't fold in to the super-conferences or outright cease to exist, then maybe what's left is a LANDSCAPE OF UNAFFILIATED INDEPENDENTS, the best of which could possibly be given access to some sort of preliminary round playoff berth.

How that BEST independent would be chosen would probably require some subjective HOCUS POCUS which of course would favor the teams with the most muscle and resources, ND among them.

But the teams comprising this LEFT OUT cadre would probably lack the OVERALL FIREPOWER of the super-conference members, and ND would most likely NOT be playing the best competition which would of course dull its GOLD SHEEN appreciably.
 

NDinNJ

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With ND, anything is possible. But such an arrangement runs the almost certain risk of devolving into ALSO-RAN football.

And unless the super-conferences, assuming they exist at that point, a) carve out an at-large berth for the ALSO-RANS and b) do it as part of a broader playoff field -- neither a likely possibility -- ND won't be able to keep saying it plays for the NC EVERY YEAR.

It won't be playing for the NC ANY YEAR.
You don't follow college football much do you? one of the main reasons the negotiations for an expanded playoff broke down was that SEC, ND, and I believe the B12 were against automatic qualifiers, Whereas the BIG, ACC, and PAC wanted to include conference champions as automatic qualifiers. Could you imagine a 9-3 conference champion getting in over a 10-2 or 11-1 ND, SEC team, B12, or any P5 team? This s why AQ's are a dumb idea.
 
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NDinNJ

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The only way I see ND joining a conference is if they lose access to playing for a championship, are unable to put a competitive schedule together because the super conferences decide to play in conference games only, and the disparity in money becomes unsustainable.

Based on what i've read, even with super conferences, there's a high probability that AQ's will not be a major factor in a playoff. 9-3 or 8-4 will not get in to an 8 team playoff, we may start seeing that with a 12 team playoff, but again AQ's will be limited to most likely 2 slots.

As for super conferences scheduling only in conferences games, this won't happen. If the SEC and BIG end up with 20 teams they'll most likely break the conference into 4 pods of 5 teams. Each team plays a team within their own pod annually (4 games) and schedule another pod (5 games) on a yearly rotation so that each conference member plays everyone every 3 years. This will leave 40 teams from 2 conferences each with 3 OOC games from which ND can schedule.

The money, is probably the trickiest part, because this where ND will need assistance from another conference to get what they want in terms of a media deal. I'm confident it will happen.
 

TDIrish27

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They won't play in conference games only IMO. They'll ultimately stop at 10 IMO. But they won't schedule ND as one of their OOC games.

Why should they ?

Our ability to play for a National Championship will be diminished by playing a weaker schedule.

It won't be eliminated if the field gets to 12 but it will definitely get diminished.
 

northvanole

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Of the Power 5, the ACC has the best overall academic credentials. And I had hoped that ND would have taken the lead, with the ACC, in creating a conference close to its "own image and likeness". But unfortunately, that ship has sailed. The Big Ten Network, which started out as a failure, has changed college football as there are only so many linear channels in the prime Saturday slots. The separate conference networks have changed the dynamics. They add space and have a different revenue model. Just getting Southern California into the Big Ten Network will be huge for that conference. I don't think people realize how much oxygen is taken out of the Saturday time slots of linear channels to showcase these 4 power schools in 2 huge conferences. The conference networks will provide more space. But ND didn't want to be a part of the ACC Network, because it didn't transfer its football rights to the ACC. What's done is done.

The general view from college football "fans" is that ND pushed its weight around to remain independent. My view is that ND never knew how powerful it was to create a conference that it could use to achieve all its objectives. Oh well, water under the bridge. OU and Texas to the SEC and USC and UCLA to the Big Ten are massive changes to the footprint and the TV contracts.

Life goes on. The members of the ACC have to go their own way. If the current negotiations between ND and NBC allow it to extend its independence, or if it brings them to the Big Ten, it's game over for the ACC. The members are already working on next steps if either of those events happen. Actually, they are working on them before any decision is made. Nobody expects ND to join the ACC anymore. Fair enough . No promises were made. Time to move on.
 

4-4-3

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You don't follow college football much do you? one of the main reasons the negotiations for an expanded playoff broke down was that SEC, ND, and I believe the B12 were against automatic qualifiers, Whereas the BIG, ACC, and PAC wanted to include conference champions as automatic qualifiers. Could you imagine a 9-3 conference champion getting in over a 10-2 or 11-1 ND, SEC team, B12, or any P5 team? This s why AQ's are a dumb idea.
I'm not talking about AUTOMATIC QUALIFIERS. I'm talking about a kind of potential playoff spot for NON-CONFERENCE MEMBERS. A POINT OF ENTRY INTO THE PROCESS, NOT AN AUTOMATIC BERTH. They'd still have to qualify on the basis of their won-loss record vs. conference teams' won-loss records.

Otherwise, the system is restricted merely to conference members.

And I wasn't recommending it or not, merely conjecturing as to what options ND might have if it "WENT ROGUE" and didn't join a conference.
 

john0gaunt

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I'm not talking about AUTOMATIC QUALIFIERS. I'm talking about a kind of potential playoff spot for NON-CONFERENCE MEMBERS. A POINT OF ENTRY INTO THE PROCESS, NOT AN AUTOMATIC BERTH. They'd still have to qualify on the basis of their won-loss record vs. conference teams' won-loss records.
You repeated the process that would happen if what I posted in the original post came about, and I think it is more likely to happen than ND joining the b1g. The fox/espn/2superconference regime probably would not allow the non conference teams in, as that would permit them to remain non aligned. So, it's likely a separate championship would have to be played among those non aligned teams.

There seems to be unanimous agreement that this is a money play, and I would agree. To that, I would remind that cbs/nbc/nflx are not going to sit idly by and allow espn and fox to own college sports. They have plenty of cash to create a separate deal and there are plenty of non aligned teams. being left out and sent to the island of misfit teams. In addition to the cbs/nbc/nflx cash I would be happy to pay ~50+ a season to have access to all the ND games streamed and pay directly to the school. There are likely a ton of Stanford, BYU, FSU,BC and others who would do the same for their home teams.

After starting the thread I was reading around and there was an article that predicted this new arrangement of espn/fox would cause even more teams to go independant, they mentioned BYU had already done so. Many of these teams being sent to the island of misfit teams have long histories and strong sports programs, in all sports not only football. I think this whole thing is far from being decided.
 

sjb75

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You repeated the process that would happen if what I posted in the original post came about, and I think it is more likely to happen than ND joining the b1g. The fox/espn/2superconference regime probably would not allow the non conference teams in, as that would permit them to remain non aligned. So, it's likely a separate championship would have to be played among those non aligned teams.

There seems to be unanimous agreement that this is a money play, and I would agree. To that, I would remind that cbs/nbc/nflx are not going to sit idly by and allow espn and fox to own college sports. They have plenty of cash to create a separate deal and there are plenty of non aligned teams. being left out and sent to the island of misfit teams. In addition to the cbs/nbc/nflx cash I would be happy to pay ~50+ a season to have access to all the ND games streamed and pay directly to the school. There are likely a ton of Stanford, BYU, FSU,BC and others who would do the same for their home teams.

After starting the thread I was reading around and there was an article that predicted this new arrangement of espn/fox would cause even more teams to go independant, they mentioned BYU had already done so. Many of these teams being sent to the island of misfit teams have long histories and strong sports programs, in all sports not only football. I think this whole thing is far from being decided.
I’d be more than happy to pay $100.00 a year to Notre Dame for access to ND Football on TV. Heck, airfare/hotels now are so expensive to see a home game, that’s a drop in the bucket.

Anything to avoid aligning with the Big 10.
 
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4-4-3

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You repeated the process that would happen if what I posted in the original post came about, and I think it is more likely to happen than ND joining the b1g. The fox/espn/2superconference regime probably would not allow the non conference teams in, as that would permit them to remain non aligned. So, it's likely a separate championship would have to be played among those non aligned teams.

There seems to be unanimous agreement that this is a money play, and I would agree. To that, I would remind that cbs/nbc/nflx are not going to sit idly by and allow espn and fox to own college sports. They have plenty of cash to create a separate deal and there are plenty of non aligned teams. being left out and sent to the island of misfit teams. In addition to the cbs/nbc/nflx cash I would be happy to pay ~50+ a season to have access to all the ND games streamed and pay directly to the school. There are likely a ton of Stanford, BYU, FSU,BC and others who would do the same for their home teams.

After starting the thread I was reading around and there was an article that predicted this new arrangement of espn/fox would cause even more teams to go independant, they mentioned BYU had already done so. Many of these teams being sent to the island of misfit teams have long histories and strong sports programs, in all sports not only football. I think this whole thing is far from being decided.
It may or may not be far from decided, but I’d agree there are different ways it could go.

My questions are:

What is the point of ND remaining independent? If it’s something OTHER than monetary, it can only be CULTURAL, IDEOLOGICAL or EDUCATIONAL. None of which I understand.

But what it looks like to MANY is hubris, elitism or a kind of PRESUMED EXCEPTIONALISM.

But if ND is instead looking at this issue principally in terms of money, HOW MUCH MONEY IS ENOUGH? Does it wish just to cover expenses or maximize revenues? Or what? I’ve no idea.

Regardless, I’m sure ND has its NUMBER.

Yet, if it wishes to keep pace with other TRADITIONAL POWERS, its number must be high enough to finance the facilities, programs and other perks so much of recruiting now seems to HINGE ON.

BUT THEN . . .

. . . there's more to consider than just the MAKING of the money and the sums involved. There’s WHAT SORT OF PROGRAM will it fund. And what will be its MISSION?

If ND elects NOT to join a conference and instead competes for the most part against other REMAINDER PROGRAMS, will that be a satisfactory outcome given the team’s HISTORY?

I mean, should ND forsake its PLACE in CFB merely to retain its “INDEPENDENCE?” And why must its membership in the CFB CLUB still include a CINDERELLA RIDER? How does that still help?

IT DOESN’T.

Is an INDEPENDENT ND still ND if it can’t compete for an NC that will be decided by the best teams in the BIG 10 and SEC? As well as perhaps a few other good ones that are absorbed eventually from the ACC, Big 12 and elsewhere?

And don’t the REMAINDERS run the risk of being viewed as the CHILDREN’S TABLE on Thanksgiving? The old AFL? Paul Brown’s All America Conference from the 40’s? More specifically, do Pitt and BC = LSU and Bama?

Just my posing these questions creates a picture of the kind of RETREAT “remainder football” would represent vs. WHAT ND HAS TRADITIONALLY STOOD FOR.

AND WHY WOULD ND SETTLE FOR THIS? JUST TO REMAIN INDEPENDENT ENOUGH TO PICK ONLY HALF OF ITS SCHEDULE?

Whereas ND could EASILY abandon INDEPENDECNE AS ITS "MARKETING LOGOS" while still competing with the BIG BOYS on the MOST COMPETITIVE STAGE for that EVER-ELUSIVE NC.

Isn’t THAT the point?

I would think that playing principally with other INDEPENDENT REMAINDERS would move ND FARTHER AWAY FROM ANY CHANCE OF AN NC than at any time in the last 35 years.

Is that not TOO HIGH A PRICE for INDEPENDENCE?

And how would the REMAINDERS ORGANIZE THEMSELVES? Would they crown their “APOSTATE CALIPHATE” NC WINNER on the basis of computers and polls? Revive the idea of a MYTHICAL champion?

The ONLY ALTERNATIVE would be to organize themselves into DIVISIONS of some sort – CONFERENCES, LEAGUES, whatever? In which case, would we not be back at SQUARE ONE?

And would this not OVER TIME only lead to the REMAINDERS lobbying for THEIR CHAMPION – HOWEVER DETERMINED – to play in a CFB SUPER BOWL against the ESPN/FOX CHAMP?

MAYBE.

Seems like A LOT OF WORK, NUMEROUS INEFFICIENCIES and a LIKELY LESS LUCRATIVE OUTCOME for ND. And, at least as I understand it, NOTHING LIKE ND’s NORMAL M.O. as reflected in its CURRENT MISSION.

My sense is that ND will CUT THE BEST DEAL IT CAN to PLAY IN A CONFERENCE even as it fights to retain its INDEPENDENCE “SELLING POINT” in order to counter its tough ADMISSIONS AND ACADEMICS.

If the BIG TEN or ACC agrees to allow ND a SEMI-PREGNANT, PLAUSIBLY DENIABLE MEMBERSHIP, that’s the way it could go. Or we could see, as you suggest, some sort of REMAINDER CONFIGURATION.

But I HONESTLY don’t see ND opting to play PRINCIPALLY against any group of teams that doesn’t include -- and I’m omitting Boise State from this list for what I hope are understandable reasons – THE OTHER MOST SUCCESSFUL PROGRAMS IN CFB HISTORY:

OSU, Bama, USC, UM, PSU, Tennessee, Texas, Oklahoma and Nebraska.

I mean, WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT?

So as to play BC, West Virginia, Brigham Young and/or the dregs of the Big 12 and Pac 10? That would be even worse than the current roster of colorless ACC teams.

I ask you – WHAT PRICE INDEPENDENCE?
 

sjb75

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It may or may not be far from decided, but I’d agree there are different ways it could go.

My questions are:

What is the point of ND remaining independent? If it’s something OTHER than monetary, it can only be CULTURAL, IDEOLOGICAL or EDUCATIONAL. None of which I understand.

But what it looks like to MANY is hubris, elitism or a kind of PRESUMED EXCEPTIONALISM.

But if ND is instead looking at this issue principally in terms of money, HOW MUCH MONEY IS ENOUGH? Does it wish just to cover expenses or maximize revenues? Or what? I’ve no idea.

Regardless, I’m sure ND has its NUMBER.

Yet, if it wishes to keep pace with other TRADITIONAL POWERS, its number must be high enough to finance the facilities, programs and other perks so much of recruiting now seems to HINGE ON.

BUT THEN . . .

. . . there's more to consider than just the MAKING of the money and the sums involved. There’s WHAT SORT OF PROGRAM will it fund. And what will be its MISSION?

If ND elects NOT to join a conference and instead competes for the most part against other REMAINDER PROGRAMS, will that be a satisfactory outcome given the team’s HISTORY?

I mean, should ND forsake its PLACE in CFB merely to retain its “INDEPENDENCE?” And why must its membership in the CFB CLUB still include a CINDERELLA RIDER? How does that still help?

IT DOESN’T.

Is an INDEPENDENT ND still ND if it can’t compete for an NC that will be decided by the best teams in the BIG 10 and SEC? As well as perhaps a few other good ones that are absorbed eventually from the ACC, Big 12 and elsewhere?

And don’t the REMAINDERS run the risk of being viewed as the CHILDREN’S TABLE on Thanksgiving? The old AFL? Paul Brown’s All America Conference from the 40’s? More specifically, do Pitt and BC = LSU and Bama?

Just my posing these questions creates a picture of the kind of RETREAT “remainder football” would represent vs. WHAT ND HAS TRADITIONALLY STOOD FOR.

AND WHY WOULD ND SETTLE FOR THIS? JUST TO REMAIN INDEPENDENT ENOUGH TO PICK ONLY HALF OF ITS SCHEDULE?

Whereas ND could EASILY abandon INDEPENDECNE AS ITS "MARKETING LOGOS" while still competing with the BIG BOYS on the MOST COMPETITIVE STAGE for that EVER-ELUSIVE NC.

Isn’t THAT the point?

I would think that playing principally with other INDEPENDENT REMAINDERS would move ND FARTHER AWAY FROM ANY CHANCE OF AN NC than at any time in the last 35 years.

Is that not TOO HIGH A PRICE for INDEPENDENCE?

And how would the REMAINDERS ORGANIZE THEMSELVES? Would they crown their “APOSTATE CALIPHATE” NC WINNER on the basis of computers and polls? Revive the idea of a MYTHICAL champion?

The ONLY ALTERNATIVE would be to organize themselves into DIVISIONS of some sort – CONFERENCES, LEAGUES, whatever? In which case, would we not be back at SQUARE ONE?

And would this not OVER TIME only lead to the REMAINDERS lobbying for THEIR CHAMPION – HOWEVER DETERMINED – to play in a CFB SUPER BOWL against the ESPN/FOX CHAMP?

MAYBE.

Seems like A LOT OF WORK, NUMEROUS INEFFICIENCIES and a LIKELY LESS LUCRATIVE OUTCOME for ND. And, at least as I understand it, NOTHING LIKE ND’s NORMAL M.O. as reflected in its CURRENT MISSION.

My sense is that ND will CUT THE BEST DEAL IT CAN to PLAY IN A CONFERENCE even as it fights to retain its INDEPENDENCE “SELLING POINT” in order to counter its tough ADMISSIONS AND ACADEMICS.

If the BIG TEN or ACC agrees to allow ND a SEMI-PREGNANT, PLAUSIBLY DENIABLE MEMBERSHIP, that’s the way it could go. Or we could see, as you suggest, some sort of REMAINDER CONFIGURATION.

But I HONESTLY don’t see ND opting to play PRINCIPALLY against any group of teams that doesn’t include -- and I’m omitting Boise State from this list for what I hope are understandable reasons – THE OTHER MOST SUCCESSFUL PROGRAMS IN CFB HISTORY:

OSU, Bama, USC, UM, PSU, Tennessee, Texas, Oklahoma and Nebraska.

I mean, WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT?

So as to play BC, West Virginia, Brigham Young and/or the dregs of the Big 12 and Pac 10? That would be even worse than the current roster of colorless ACC teams.

I ask you – WHAT PRICE INDEPENDENCE?
Does anyone have any Advil?
 
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john0gaunt

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It may or may not be far from decided, but I’d agree there are different ways it could go.

My questions are:

What is the point of ND remaining independent? If it’s something OTHER than monetary, it can only be CULTURAL, IDEOLOGICAL or EDUCATIONAL. None of which I understand.

But what it looks like to MANY is hubris, elitism or a kind of PRESUMED EXCEPTIONALISM.

But if ND is instead looking at this issue principally in terms of money, HOW MUCH MONEY IS ENOUGH? Does it wish just to cover expenses or maximize revenues? Or what? I’ve no idea.

Regardless, I’m sure ND has its NUMBER.

Yet, if it wishes to keep pace with other TRADITIONAL POWERS, its number must be high enough to finance the facilities, programs and other perks so much of recruiting now seems to HINGE ON.

BUT THEN . . .

. . . there's more to consider than just the MAKING of the money and the sums involved. There’s WHAT SORT OF PROGRAM will it fund. And what will be its MISSION?

If ND elects NOT to join a conference and instead competes for the most part against other REMAINDER PROGRAMS, will that be a satisfactory outcome given the team’s HISTORY?

I mean, should ND forsake its PLACE in CFB merely to retain its “INDEPENDENCE?” And why must its membership in the CFB CLUB still include a CINDERELLA RIDER? How does that still help?

IT DOESN’T.

Is an INDEPENDENT ND still ND if it can’t compete for an NC that will be decided by the best teams in the BIG 10 and SEC? As well as perhaps a few other good ones that are absorbed eventually from the ACC, Big 12 and elsewhere?

And don’t the REMAINDERS run the risk of being viewed as the CHILDREN’S TABLE on Thanksgiving? The old AFL? Paul Brown’s All America Conference from the 40’s? More specifically, do Pitt and BC = LSU and Bama?

Just my posing these questions creates a picture of the kind of RETREAT “remainder football” would represent vs. WHAT ND HAS TRADITIONALLY STOOD FOR.

AND WHY WOULD ND SETTLE FOR THIS? JUST TO REMAIN INDEPENDENT ENOUGH TO PICK ONLY HALF OF ITS SCHEDULE?

Whereas ND could EASILY abandon INDEPENDECNE AS ITS "MARKETING LOGOS" while still competing with the BIG BOYS on the MOST COMPETITIVE STAGE for that EVER-ELUSIVE NC.

Isn’t THAT the point?

I would think that playing principally with other INDEPENDENT REMAINDERS would move ND FARTHER AWAY FROM ANY CHANCE OF AN NC than at any time in the last 35 years.

Is that not TOO HIGH A PRICE for INDEPENDENCE?

And how would the REMAINDERS ORGANIZE THEMSELVES? Would they crown their “APOSTATE CALIPHATE” NC WINNER on the basis of computers and polls? Revive the idea of a MYTHICAL champion?

The ONLY ALTERNATIVE would be to organize themselves into DIVISIONS of some sort – CONFERENCES, LEAGUES, whatever? In which case, would we not be back at SQUARE ONE?

And would this not OVER TIME only lead to the REMAINDERS lobbying for THEIR CHAMPION – HOWEVER DETERMINED – to play in a CFB SUPER BOWL against the ESPN/FOX CHAMP?

MAYBE.

Seems like A LOT OF WORK, NUMEROUS INEFFICIENCIES and a LIKELY LESS LUCRATIVE OUTCOME for ND. And, at least as I understand it, NOTHING LIKE ND’s NORMAL M.O. as reflected in its CURRENT MISSION.

My sense is that ND will CUT THE BEST DEAL IT CAN to PLAY IN A CONFERENCE even as it fights to retain its INDEPENDENCE “SELLING POINT” in order to counter its tough ADMISSIONS AND ACADEMICS.

If the BIG TEN or ACC agrees to allow ND a SEMI-PREGNANT, PLAUSIBLY DENIABLE MEMBERSHIP, that’s the way it could go. Or we could see, as you suggest, some sort of REMAINDER CONFIGURATION.

But I HONESTLY don’t see ND opting to play PRINCIPALLY against any group of teams that doesn’t include -- and I’m omitting Boise State from this list for what I hope are understandable reasons – THE OTHER MOST SUCCESSFUL PROGRAMS IN CFB HISTORY:

OSU, Bama, USC, UM, PSU, Tennessee, Texas, Oklahoma and Nebraska.

I mean, WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT?

So as to play BC, West Virginia, Brigham Young and/or the dregs of the Big 12 and Pac 10? That would be even worse than the current roster of colorless ACC teams.

I ask you – WHAT PRICE INDEPENDENCE?
You are looking at it all very much short sighted.

First, ND is currently getting 22 million from NBC for home games alone. This contract will expire in 2 years I think. The new contract is likely to be minimum 2-3x the old. So ND could be seeing 50+ million/yr for home games. Add to that a CBS contract for the remaining away games and the number could easily be at 75mil.

You may be too old to realize that NFLX is desperate for sports programming and may very well get involved. Add to that potential individual streaming deals sold directly to fans, and ND is easily eclipsing the potential 80mil from a conference affiliation.

While you may be too old to realize the NFLX needs, you aren't too old to remember a time when FSU and TX were very relevant FB powers. You're likely too young to remember Stanford, Cal, and Pitt were once college football powers. There is nothing written in stone that AL, Clemson, and OSU will be the forever champions of college football. Also, the DREGS as you call them have very storied histories both in college football, and many other sports. For instance, did you know that perhaps the greatest golfer of all time played at Stanford? And at one time Stanford has had some great QB's in NFL history, to include Elway, Plunkett, and even Andrew Luck, who had a respectable career before injury. Not to mention John McEnroe, Bob Mathias, or John Brodie.

What price, as you say, would CBS pay to televise the next great golf champion in the NCAA 10 finals, whose name may very well be Woods.
 

NDinNJ

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It may or may not be far from decided, but I’d agree there are different ways it could go.

My questions are:

What is the point of ND remaining independent? If it’s something OTHER than monetary, it can only be CULTURAL, IDEOLOGICAL or EDUCATIONAL. None of which I understand.

But what it looks like to MANY is hubris, elitism or a kind of PRESUMED EXCEPTIONALISM.

But if ND is instead looking at this issue principally in terms of money, HOW MUCH MONEY IS ENOUGH? Does it wish just to cover expenses or maximize revenues? Or what? I’ve no idea.

Regardless, I’m sure ND has its NUMBER.

Yet, if it wishes to keep pace with other TRADITIONAL POWERS, its number must be high enough to finance the facilities, programs and other perks so much of recruiting now seems to HINGE ON.

BUT THEN . . .

. . . there's more to consider than just the MAKING of the money and the sums involved. There’s WHAT SORT OF PROGRAM will it fund. And what will be its MISSION?

If ND elects NOT to join a conference and instead competes for the most part against other REMAINDER PROGRAMS, will that be a satisfactory outcome given the team’s HISTORY?

I mean, should ND forsake its PLACE in CFB merely to retain its “INDEPENDENCE?” And why must its membership in the CFB CLUB still include a CINDERELLA RIDER? How does that still help?

IT DOESN’T.

Is an INDEPENDENT ND still ND if it can’t compete for an NC that will be decided by the best teams in the BIG 10 and SEC? As well as perhaps a few other good ones that are absorbed eventually from the ACC, Big 12 and elsewhere?

And don’t the REMAINDERS run the risk of being viewed as the CHILDREN’S TABLE on Thanksgiving? The old AFL? Paul Brown’s All America Conference from the 40’s? More specifically, do Pitt and BC = LSU and Bama?

Just my posing these questions creates a picture of the kind of RETREAT “remainder football” would represent vs. WHAT ND HAS TRADITIONALLY STOOD FOR.

AND WHY WOULD ND SETTLE FOR THIS? JUST TO REMAIN INDEPENDENT ENOUGH TO PICK ONLY HALF OF ITS SCHEDULE?

Whereas ND could EASILY abandon INDEPENDECNE AS ITS "MARKETING LOGOS" while still competing with the BIG BOYS on the MOST COMPETITIVE STAGE for that EVER-ELUSIVE NC.

Isn’t THAT the point?

I would think that playing principally with other INDEPENDENT REMAINDERS would move ND FARTHER AWAY FROM ANY CHANCE OF AN NC than at any time in the last 35 years.

Is that not TOO HIGH A PRICE for INDEPENDENCE?

And how would the REMAINDERS ORGANIZE THEMSELVES? Would they crown their “APOSTATE CALIPHATE” NC WINNER on the basis of computers and polls? Revive the idea of a MYTHICAL champion?

The ONLY ALTERNATIVE would be to organize themselves into DIVISIONS of some sort – CONFERENCES, LEAGUES, whatever? In which case, would we not be back at SQUARE ONE?

And would this not OVER TIME only lead to the REMAINDERS lobbying for THEIR CHAMPION – HOWEVER DETERMINED – to play in a CFB SUPER BOWL against the ESPN/FOX CHAMP?

MAYBE.

Seems like A LOT OF WORK, NUMEROUS INEFFICIENCIES and a LIKELY LESS LUCRATIVE OUTCOME for ND. And, at least as I understand it, NOTHING LIKE ND’s NORMAL M.O. as reflected in its CURRENT MISSION.

My sense is that ND will CUT THE BEST DEAL IT CAN to PLAY IN A CONFERENCE even as it fights to retain its INDEPENDENCE “SELLING POINT” in order to counter its tough ADMISSIONS AND ACADEMICS.

If the BIG TEN or ACC agrees to allow ND a SEMI-PREGNANT, PLAUSIBLY DENIABLE MEMBERSHIP, that’s the way it could go. Or we could see, as you suggest, some sort of REMAINDER CONFIGURATION.

But I HONESTLY don’t see ND opting to play PRINCIPALLY against any group of teams that doesn’t include -- and I’m omitting Boise State from this list for what I hope are understandable reasons – THE OTHER MOST SUCCESSFUL PROGRAMS IN CFB HISTORY:

OSU, Bama, USC, UM, PSU, Tennessee, Texas, Oklahoma and Nebraska.

I mean, WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT?

So as to play BC, West Virginia, Brigham Young and/or the dregs of the Big 12 and Pac 10? That would be even worse than the current roster of colorless ACC teams.

I ask you – WHAT PRICE INDEPENDENCE?
YAWN!!!!!!! 🥱
 

Rionegro

ND Expert
Sep 22, 2018
1,951
1,102
113
They’re not relevant. You’re trying to nitpick away from the original premise. Creating a different argument. ND is the only relevant academic institution. Period.
And we lost our last outing vs Michigan. And Forbes ranks USC above ND. All the academic rankings are very subjective. In fact Stanford refused to submit data to U.S. News because of perceived flaws in their ranking process.
 

Rionegro

ND Expert
Sep 22, 2018
1,951
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The ACC already is the best conference that has top academic institutions. Duke, Wake, BC, VT. Add ND and you have that conf. Miami (outside of the football players) is also a top university. If you wanted to make a run at it you could add Stanford, UConn and Cal. Add Rice and that conf has every one of the best states for recruiting and top schools.
‘’Outside of the football players” do you have any idea of the slack given to nd football players???? its a complete joke , there’s the academic institution then the entertainment aspect of the university. Miles apart
 

4-4-3

Posts Like A Champion
Gold Member
Jan 29, 2003
3,504
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You are looking at it all very much short sighted.

First, ND is currently getting 22 million from NBC for home games alone. This contract will expire in 2 years I think. The new contract is likely to be minimum 2-3x the old. So ND could be seeing 50+ million/yr for home games. Add to that a CBS contract for the remaining away games and the number could easily be at 75mil.

You may be too old to realize that NFLX is desperate for sports programming and may very well get involved. Add to that potential individual streaming deals sold directly to fans, and ND is easily eclipsing the potential 80mil from a conference affiliation.

While you may be too old to realize the NFLX needs, you aren't too old to remember a time when FSU and TX were very relevant FB powers. You're likely too young to remember Stanford, Cal, and Pitt were once college football powers. There is nothing written in stone that AL, Clemson, and OSU will be the forever champions of college football. Also, the DREGS as you call them have very storied histories both in college football, and many other sports. For instance, did you know that perhaps the greatest golfer of all time played at Stanford? And at one time Stanford has had some great QB's in NFL history, to include Elway, Plunkett, and even Andrew Luck, who had a respectable career before injury. Not to mention John McEnroe, Bob Mathias, or John Brodie.

What price, as you say, would CBS pay to televise the next great golf champion in the NCAA 10 finals, whose name may very well be Woods.
I wouldn't call it short-sighted. I'd call it being focused on the STRUCTURAL CHANGES in the game CURRENTLY OCCURRING.

This includes -- besides realignment -- NIL and the portal. No one is letting any GRASS GROW anywhere. Events are moving quickly, and whatever is viewed as RELEVANT tomorrow will be based on what's happening TODAY and NOT what occurred YEARS AGO.

While there are undoubtedly many new ways to TRANSMIT ELECTROIC IMAGES to FOOTBALL-HUNGRY CONSUMERS, it's the QUALITY OF THE PRODUCT that determines if people will even AVAIL THEMSELVES of those options. In other words, electronics are still the MEDIUM, no matter how much those who control them would like to see them as the MESSAGE.

Should ND drop into some sort of OTHER or LIMBO status, no matter how slight, why wouldn't it's LEGACY DIMINISH? Should ND even take the CHANCE? Yesterday COMES VERY FAST. Trust me. Even today, ND fans are not NEARLY SO STEEPED in the program as they were in the 50's and 60's, a time I recall VERY WELL.

People on boards may still be deeply committed, but ND is, in fact, not as strong a national brand as in the past. Other alternatives have emerged.

Which isn't to say that ND still doesn't have broad appeal and a certain uniqueness. But once you don't win an NC for 35 years after having previously won them at the rate of a couple or more PER DECADE, the luster DOES DIM. And again, I'VE WATCHED IT HAPPEN. And with that, what's the HOOK for younger people? The BROADER SWATH out there.

So, the relief-valve idea of ND being able to DIAL UP OTHER OUTLETS AT WILL is WHOLLY DEPENDENT on its continuing to have an UNRIVALED STAND-ALONE APPEAL which I don't think is IN ANY WAY GUARANTEED.

The notion that ND will ALWAYS be the HEART & SOUL OF CFB and at the same time also TRANSCENDENTLY ABOVE IT is the SIGNFICANTLY QUESTIONABLE ASSUMPTION your argument rests on. I not only don't see ND's FUTURE PLACE in CFB as INDISPUTABLY PREEMINENT, I also question how much it's the case EVEN NOW.

Think of the Premier Football League in the UK. They have various interconnected levels. What you're suggesting, in effect, is that ND, the equivalent of a TOP-LEVEL Premier League side -- Arsenal, for instance -- drop down a level to compete PRINCIPALLY, if not quite wholly, with second level teams. How is that serving the ND fan base? And where's the path to an NC?

What I've been seeing, largely as a result of ESPN'S super-saturated coverage of ALL TEAMS, is the REST OF THE SPORT CATCHING UP, thereby DILUTING ND's claim to some kind of ONGOING PREEMINENCE. At some point, were that
"PREEMINENCE" to have any ONGOING VALIDITY, it would have to be RE-EARNED.

And the only way to do that is through UNRELENTING A-1 competition.

As for the Pitt's and Stanford's coming back, that will be a lot harder to achieve if they're not part of CFB's select 32, 48, 64 -- or whatever it turns out to be. They won't get the coverage as they won't be part of the EXCLUSIVE CONVERSATION that SUPER CONFERENCES will engender. As a result, as revenues drop, facilities will age and recruiting, ATROPHY.

Is that really the kind of uphill struggle you wish to see ND get caught up in? Why not just cut to the chase and have ND JOIN THE IVY LEAGUE? Or put together some sort of loose "COALITION OF INDEPENDENTS" like the one I've half-facetiously suggested which would include besides ND -- Stanford, BC, Rice, Duke, Vanderbilt, Air Force, Army, Navy and Northwestern.

Call it the AA League -- standing either for All Academic or All American, depending on whether you shoot straight or throw breaking balls.

No, I don't see ND's path to continued RELEVANCE, let alone CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER FOOTBALL, as best achieved by playing in a leftover league of REMAINDERS. I see it rather in going HEAD to HEAD with the big dogs -- Bama, OSU, Clemson, OU -- AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE.

To ND, I would say: You want to BE the BEST? Then BEAT the BEST. Otherwise, RISK LIVING IN THE PAST.
 

sjb75

BlueandGold All Star
Gold Member
Jul 27, 2004
71,818
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I wouldn't call it short-sighted. I'd call it being focused on the STRUCTURAL CHANGES in the game CURRENTLY OCCURRING.

This includes -- besides realignment -- NIL and the portal. No one is letting any GRASS GROW anywhere. Events are moving quickly, and whatever is viewed as RELEVANT tomorrow will be based on what's happening TODAY and NOT what occurred YEARS AGO.

While there are undoubtedly many new ways to TRANSMIT ELECTROIC IMAGES to FOOTBALL-HUNGRY CONSUMERS, it's the QUALITY OF THE PRODUCT that determines if people will even AVAIL THEMSELVES of those options. In other words, electronics are still the MEDIUM, no matter how much those who control them would like to see them as the MESSAGE.

Should ND drop into some sort of OTHER or LIMBO status, no matter how slight, why wouldn't it's LEGACY DIMINISH? Should ND even take the CHANCE? Yesterday COMES VERY FAST. Trust me. Even today, ND fans are not NEARLY SO STEEPED in the program as they were in the 50's and 60's, a time I recall VERY WELL.

People on boards may still be deeply committed, but ND is, in fact, not as strong a national brand as in the past. Other alternatives have emerged.

Which isn't to say that ND still doesn't have broad appeal and a certain uniqueness. But once you don't win an NC for 35 years after having previously won them at the rate of a couple or more PER DECADE, the luster DOES DIM. And again, I'VE WATCHED IT HAPPEN. And with that, what's the HOOK for younger people? The BROADER SWATH out there.

So, the relief-valve idea of ND being able to DIAL UP OTHER OUTLETS AT WILL is WHOLLY DEPENDENT on its continuing to have an UNRIVALED STAND-ALONE APPEAL which I don't think is IN ANY WAY GUARANTEED.

The notion that ND will ALWAYS be the HEART & SOUL OF CFB and at the same time also TRANSCENDENTLY ABOVE IT is the SIGNFICANTLY QUESTIONABLE ASSUMPTION your argument rests on. I not only don't see ND's FUTURE PLACE in CFB as INDISPUTABLY PREEMINENT, I also question how much it's the case EVEN NOW.

Think of the Premier Football League in the UK. They have various interconnected levels. What you're suggesting, in effect, is that ND, the equivalent of a TOP-LEVEL Premier League side -- Arsenal, for instance -- drop down a level to compete PRINCIPALLY, if not quite wholly, with second level teams. How is that serving the ND fan base? And where's the path to an NC?

What I've been seeing, largely as a result of ESPN'S super-saturated coverage of ALL TEAMS, is the REST OF THE SPORT CATCHING UP, thereby DILUTING ND's claim to some kind of ONGOING PREEMINENCE. At some point, were that
"PREEMINENCE" to have any ONGOING VALIDITY, it would have to be RE-EARNED.

And the only way to do that is through UNRELENTING A-1 competition.

As for the Pitt's and Stanford's coming back, that will be a lot harder to achieve if they're not part of CFB's select 32, 48, 64 -- or whatever it turns out to be. They won't get the coverage as they won't be part of the EXCLUSIVE CONVERSATION that SUPER CONFERENCES will engender. As a result, as revenues drop, facilities will age and recruiting, ATROPHY.

Is that really the kind of uphill struggle you wish to see ND get caught up in? Why not just cut to the chase and have ND JOIN THE IVY LEAGUE? Or put together some sort of loose "COALITION OF INDEPENDENTS" like the one I've half-facetiously suggested which would include besides ND -- Stanford, BC, Rice, Duke, Vanderbilt, Air Force, Army, Navy and Northwestern.

Call it the AA League -- standing either for All Academic or All American, depending on whether you shoot straight or throw breaking balls.

No, I don't see ND's path to continued RELEVANCE, let alone CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER FOOTBALL, as best achieved by playing in a leftover league of REMAINDERS. I see it rather in going HEAD to HEAD with the big dogs -- Bama, OSU, Clemson, OU -- AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE.

To ND, I would say: You want to BE the BEST? Then BEAT the BEST. Otherwise, RISK LIVING IN THE PAST.
Regurgitated crap.
 

sjb75

BlueandGold All Star
Gold Member
Jul 27, 2004
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‘’Outside of the football players” do you have any idea of the slack given to nd football players???? its a complete joke , there’s the academic institution then the entertainment aspect of the university. Miles apart
Do you ever say or write anything positive regarding Notre Dame Football? Seemingly everything you write has a slant that Notre Dame sucks.
 

4-4-3

Posts Like A Champion
Gold Member
Jan 29, 2003
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I read the first 2 sentences and I moved on. I read your novel type posts when I retire for the evening. Your posts are a great sedative. 😂
Well, aren't YOU lucky.
 

NIN Irish

ND Expert
Oct 31, 2012
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I read the first 2 sentences and I moved on. I read your novel type posts when I retire for the evening. Your posts are a great sedative. 😂
As soon as I see his avatar I know it's time to move on. Every once in awhile I will read the first two sentences, but always regret it as waisted time.
 
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Golson5

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Apr 15, 2019
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I wouldn't call it short-sighted. I'd call it being focused on the STRUCTURAL CHANGES in the game CURRENTLY OCCURRING.

This includes -- besides realignment -- NIL and the portal. No one is letting any GRASS GROW anywhere. Events are moving quickly, and whatever is viewed as RELEVANT tomorrow will be based on what's happening TODAY and NOT what occurred YEARS AGO.

While there are undoubtedly many new ways to TRANSMIT ELECTROIC IMAGES to FOOTBALL-HUNGRY CONSUMERS, it's the QUALITY OF THE PRODUCT that determines if people will even AVAIL THEMSELVES of those options. In other words, electronics are still the MEDIUM, no matter how much those who control them would like to see them as the MESSAGE.

Should ND drop into some sort of OTHER or LIMBO status, no matter how slight, why wouldn't it's LEGACY DIMINISH? Should ND even take the CHANCE? Yesterday COMES VERY FAST. Trust me. Even today, ND fans are not NEARLY SO STEEPED in the program as they were in the 50's and 60's, a time I recall VERY WELL.

People on boards may still be deeply committed, but ND is, in fact, not as strong a national brand as in the past. Other alternatives have emerged.

Which isn't to say that ND still doesn't have broad appeal and a certain uniqueness. But once you don't win an NC for 35 years after having previously won them at the rate of a couple or more PER DECADE, the luster DOES DIM. And again, I'VE WATCHED IT HAPPEN. And with that, what's the HOOK for younger people? The BROADER SWATH out there.

So, the relief-valve idea of ND being able to DIAL UP OTHER OUTLETS AT WILL is WHOLLY DEPENDENT on its continuing to have an UNRIVALED STAND-ALONE APPEAL which I don't think is IN ANY WAY GUARANTEED.

The notion that ND will ALWAYS be the HEART & SOUL OF CFB and at the same time also TRANSCENDENTLY ABOVE IT is the SIGNFICANTLY QUESTIONABLE ASSUMPTION your argument rests on. I not only don't see ND's FUTURE PLACE in CFB as INDISPUTABLY PREEMINENT, I also question how much it's the case EVEN NOW.

Think of the Premier Football League in the UK. They have various interconnected levels. What you're suggesting, in effect, is that ND, the equivalent of a TOP-LEVEL Premier League side -- Arsenal, for instance -- drop down a level to compete PRINCIPALLY, if not quite wholly, with second level teams. How is that serving the ND fan base? And where's the path to an NC?

What I've been seeing, largely as a result of ESPN'S super-saturated coverage of ALL TEAMS, is the REST OF THE SPORT CATCHING UP, thereby DILUTING ND's claim to some kind of ONGOING PREEMINENCE. At some point, were that
"PREEMINENCE" to have any ONGOING VALIDITY, it would have to be RE-EARNED.

And the only way to do that is through UNRELENTING A-1 competition.

As for the Pitt's and Stanford's coming back, that will be a lot harder to achieve if they're not part of CFB's select 32, 48, 64 -- or whatever it turns out to be. They won't get the coverage as they won't be part of the EXCLUSIVE CONVERSATION that SUPER CONFERENCES will engender. As a result, as revenues drop, facilities will age and recruiting, ATROPHY.

Is that really the kind of uphill struggle you wish to see ND get caught up in? Why not just cut to the chase and have ND JOIN THE IVY LEAGUE? Or put together some sort of loose "COALITION OF INDEPENDENTS" like the one I've half-facetiously suggested which would include besides ND -- Stanford, BC, Rice, Duke, Vanderbilt, Air Force, Army, Navy and Northwestern.

Call it the AA League -- standing either for All Academic or All American, depending on whether you shoot straight or throw breaking balls.

No, I don't see ND's path to continued RELEVANCE, let alone CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER FOOTBALL, as best achieved by playing in a leftover league of REMAINDERS. I see it rather in going HEAD to HEAD with the big dogs -- Bama, OSU, Clemson, OU -- AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE.

To ND, I would say: You want to BE the BEST? Then BEAT the BEST. Otherwise, RISK LIVING IN THE PAST.
Yawn !
 
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john0gaunt

ND Expert
Oct 11, 2004
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big dogs -- Bama, OSU, Clemson, OU
"Bama" as you call them were irrelevant for 30 years before hiring Saban. OSU has been irrelevant for the last 20 years other than one NC with Urban. Clemson? Won 2 championships in the last 6 years. Previous 100 years? 1. And OU? Haven't won an NC in over 20 years. You want to redesign the entire college sports structure around those 4 teams? That's the definition of short sighted.
I've half-facetiously suggested which would include besides ND -- Stanford, BC, Rice, Duke, Vanderbilt, Air Force, Army, Navy and Northwestern.
Call it the AA League -- standing either for All Academic or All American, depending on whether you shoot straight or throw breaking balls.
You only restated the thesis I made in my original thread post. Then claimed that the entire college sports should be redesigned based on the recent success of 4 teams.

All the while you ignore the original claim I made in the original post that CBS and NBC would sit idly by and allow it to happen. None of your 12,000 word posts have really made any sense at all other that reinforce your belief that seems to be ND should join the B1G. I continue to hope that doesn't happen and believe there is a good chance ESPN and Fox have made a big mistake here.
 

sjb75

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Gold Member
Jul 27, 2004
71,818
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I wouldn't call it short-sighted. I'd call it being focused on the STRUCTURAL CHANGES in the game CURRENTLY OCCURRING.

This includes -- besides realignment -- NIL and the portal. No one is letting any GRASS GROW anywhere. Events are moving quickly, and whatever is viewed as RELEVANT tomorrow will be based on what's happening TODAY and NOT what occurred YEARS AGO.

While there are undoubtedly many new ways to TRANSMIT ELECTROIC IMAGES to FOOTBALL-HUNGRY CONSUMERS, it's the QUALITY OF THE PRODUCT that determines if people will even AVAIL THEMSELVES of those options. In other words, electronics are still the MEDIUM, no matter how much those who control them would like to see them as the MESSAGE.

Should ND drop into some sort of OTHER or LIMBO status, no matter how slight, why wouldn't it's LEGACY DIMINISH? Should ND even take the CHANCE? Yesterday COMES VERY FAST. Trust me. Even today, ND fans are not NEARLY SO STEEPED in the program as they were in the 50's and 60's, a time I recall VERY WELL.

People on boards may still be deeply committed, but ND is, in fact, not as strong a national brand as in the past. Other alternatives have emerged.

Which isn't to say that ND still doesn't have broad appeal and a certain uniqueness. But once you don't win an NC for 35 years after having previously won them at the rate of a couple or more PER DECADE, the luster DOES DIM. And again, I'VE WATCHED IT HAPPEN. And with that, what's the HOOK for younger people? The BROADER SWATH out there.

So, the relief-valve idea of ND being able to DIAL UP OTHER OUTLETS AT WILL is WHOLLY DEPENDENT on its continuing to have an UNRIVALED STAND-ALONE APPEAL which I don't think is IN ANY WAY GUARANTEED.

The notion that ND will ALWAYS be the HEART & SOUL OF CFB and at the same time also TRANSCENDENTLY ABOVE IT is the SIGNFICANTLY QUESTIONABLE ASSUMPTION your argument rests on. I not only don't see ND's FUTURE PLACE in CFB as INDISPUTABLY PREEMINENT, I also question how much it's the case EVEN NOW.

Think of the Premier Football League in the UK. They have various interconnected levels. What you're suggesting, in effect, is that ND, the equivalent of a TOP-LEVEL Premier League side -- Arsenal, for instance -- drop down a level to compete PRINCIPALLY, if not quite wholly, with second level teams. How is that serving the ND fan base? And where's the path to an NC?

What I've been seeing, largely as a result of ESPN'S super-saturated coverage of ALL TEAMS, is the REST OF THE SPORT CATCHING UP, thereby DILUTING ND's claim to some kind of ONGOING PREEMINENCE. At some point, were that
"PREEMINENCE" to have any ONGOING VALIDITY, it would have to be RE-EARNED.

And the only way to do that is through UNRELENTING A-1 competition.

As for the Pitt's and Stanford's coming back, that will be a lot harder to achieve if they're not part of CFB's select 32, 48, 64 -- or whatever it turns out to be. They won't get the coverage as they won't be part of the EXCLUSIVE CONVERSATION that SUPER CONFERENCES will engender. As a result, as revenues drop, facilities will age and recruiting, ATROPHY.

Is that really the kind of uphill struggle you wish to see ND get caught up in? Why not just cut to the chase and have ND JOIN THE IVY LEAGUE? Or put together some sort of loose "COALITION OF INDEPENDENTS" like the one I've half-facetiously suggested which would include besides ND -- Stanford, BC, Rice, Duke, Vanderbilt, Air Force, Army, Navy and Northwestern.

Call it the AA League -- standing either for All Academic or All American, depending on whether you shoot straight or throw breaking balls.

No, I don't see ND's path to continued RELEVANCE, let alone CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER FOOTBALL, as best achieved by playing in a leftover league of REMAINDERS. I see it rather in going HEAD to HEAD with the big dogs -- Bama, OSU, Clemson, OU -- AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE.

To ND, I would say: You want to BE the BEST? Then BEAT the BEST. Otherwise, RISK LIVING IN THE PAST.
Regurgitated garbage.
 
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NENextt

Irish Insider
Jun 20, 2018
71
22
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A way too early welcome to the B10 to the Irish! Think this is going to be a great thing for the conference and the future of college football!
 

Golson5

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Apr 15, 2019
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"Bama" as you call them were irrelevant for 30 years before hiring Saban. OSU has been irrelevant for the last 20 years other than one NC with Urban. Clemson? Won 2 championships in the last 6 years. Previous 100 years? 1. And OU? Haven't won an NC in over 20 years. You want to redesign the entire college sports structure around those 4 teams? That's the definition of short sighted.

You only restated the thesis I made in my original thread post. Then claimed that the entire college sports should be redesigned based on the recent success of 4 teams.

All the while you ignore the original claim I made in the original post that CBS and NBC would sit idly by and allow it to happen. None of your 12,000 word posts have really made any sense at all other that reinforce your belief that seems to be ND should join the B1G. I continue to hope that doesn't happen and believe there is a good chance ESPN and Fox have made a big mistake here.
That first part is all nonsense
 

john0gaunt

ND Expert
Oct 11, 2004
1,705
423
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How many NC’s did Clemson win prior to 6 years ago? When is the last OK championship?