You guys out there? Would like to hear your takes on the 2019 class so far - especially the job Quinn is doing. And could Pyne '20 be an even better prospect than Phil J? Finally, any hopes for an elite RB to run behind all of these top 100, 4/5* lineman? Both "Q 2.0", Quinn Carroll and Pyne seem destined to grab a 5th star. And AKristofic seems destined to get a 4th. Thoughts?
IIO/Telx
- Thread starter stu4don
- Start date
The concern with Pyne is that he has not grown in the past year and his physical size alone will limit his ranking. Are you seriously comparing Nelson and Carroll?
He is 15 years old. He will still grow the next 3 years before he steps on campus. He is a 6.0 which means he is at worst the highest 4 Star possible. But could easily climb to a 5 Star if he keeps performing like he did last weekend.
If he's really 6'1", then his size shouldn't hurt him too much, though it won't really help his ranking either.
For comparison, in the 2019 class, only 1 of the Top 5 ranked Pro-Style QB's is taller than 6'2" and only 2 of the Top 5 Dual-Threat QB's are.
Assuming quality progression, Pyne should be a borderline 5* QB in 2020, similar to what Jurkovec was in 2018
Phil J & Pyne are two different scenarios. Phil played against the best HS competition in the nation & won the 6A title in Pennsylvania. Pyne plays below average competition so his rankings will be based off of camps. Pyne is a natural thrower, maybe the best in 2020. Phil is a great runner & pretty darn good thrower.
For the Star chasers who love to compare ND to Bama, OSU, Clemson, etc... how about this nugget. This pass weekend Pyne won the MVP (as a 2020 QB) over all the 2019 QBs, which included Clemson’s prize 2019 QB commit, & top 3 QB nationally. So Pyne beat out a top 3 ranked 2019 QB going to Clemson. (Also beat out Penn State’s big 2019 QB verbal).
At RB the problem is Denson. He just doesn’t recruit. It’s a huge problem. I think it is about to come to a head soon.
Quinn Carroll is not Q Nelson. Nothing against him, but he’s not Q. And committing this soon probably makes it harder to get that 5th Star. Some other uncommitted high 4 Star will shoot up the rankings as we near NSD to a 5th Star likeNPF did last year.
If Kristofic chose Ohio State I have no doubt he would be a 4 Star in the next rankings. He will eventually get there most likely. But a lot of people think he is the best OL ND has so far in this class.
The one guy the Rivals National guys have said will be moving up a lot is Hamilton on defense.
Better run and hide... I dared called out Denson in another thread and peeps were calling for my head lol. He just isn't getting the job done. No other way around it.
Hamilton and Kristofic are both CRIMINALLY underrated on Rivals
All you have to do is look at who was recruiting them HARD, and you know they must be high level talents
According to Rivals, Notre Dame (Kelly) , Ohio State (Meyer), Alabama (Saban), Georgia (Kirby), and Michigan (Harbaugh) all made a borderline 2* Safety one of their top priorities.
Right.....lol
I’m just repeating what is being reported.
I’m neutral because I’m not there so how can I know? But those who are there are saying it’s a problem. Evidently a top RB talent was very interested in ND but Denson didn’t give him any attention so now he’s a goner.
As a recruiter, he's clearly not getting it done, though it's pointless to really consider any 2019 class failing into that until we actually know how the 2019 class ends up
(similar to people b*tching about Lyght's DB recruitment at this point last year)
But as an actual coach, I think he's done a fairly good job of developing RBs
With all due respect...will there be another Q? He was one of the most nasty and dominant players I've seen since Aaron Taylor and Jeff Faine. I'm sure we'll get another kid in with that mentality and skills set at some point, but that is upper echelon stuff right there.
Man, was he fun to watch
Unacceptable. Positional coaches #1 job is to recruit for many coaches in the country, and that's just a fact. I just don't understand how BK let's these guys stick around so long. BVG refused to recruit and was terrible on the field. Paul Longo, the weight room was freaking OPTIONAL. Both of those guys would probably still be there if not for 4-8. If ND goes 8-4 in 2016 they are both still here. Denson, just not cutting it. The most talented back on the roster still can't pass block and run routes, are you joking? A great coach owns that and works his ass off with the kid seeing the talent. Won't even recruit, what a damn joke. Get the job done or get the hell out, this ain't Illinois.
Dexter's issues are his own. A coach can't make a kid want to do what needs to be done, or magically instill it in him.
The same issues crop up at Ohio State, Alabama, etc.
Not sure how you can defend the job he's done in recruiting RBs. That's clearly been subpar.
On field, he's been solid. Not great, but solid imo.
If wliams can't do the fundamental things that's 100 percent on him. He s been there long enough. The other guys don't have a problem. Densons is far from a problem. Maybe you want a staff Ike Weis had. Good recruiters who couldn't coach a lick.
Coaches are not solely responsible for recruiting the position they coach. They have regions. Densons I believe has the southeast which is easily the toughest gig by far.
His players have been very productive and they rarely put the ball on the ground.
Denson is responsible for RB recruiting though. That's who ND's RB recruiting is assigned to.
Pretty clear that he's fallen well short of the mark in that aspect of his job, which is probably the most critical thing there is for an RB coach
That's "on the field" not recruiting.
He didn't recruit Adams, Folston, etc.
Furthermore, a lot of that "massive productivity" is a result of the OL not the quality of the RB, as the NFL draft showed.
However, the RBs (especially Adams) have clearly been good and valuable.
This is why I've said he's been a subpar recruiter but a good/solid on-flied coach
It’s not an opinion anymore. He just doesn’t recruit.
Both Chip Long & Brian Kelly have spoken to him about his lack of effort in recruiting.
I like Denson as a person, but he was supposed to be able to relate to kids & make them feel comfortable at ND. Evidently it’s the exact opposite. Long, Polian & Alexander have had to take over RB recruiting lately.
If Denson doesn’t pull something off this year in recruiting he is in trouble.
Each position coach at ND is responsible for evaluation & recruiting their position. Other coaches help in regions, but they are mostly responsible. Even in the southeast Denson has not been involved with recruits ND signed.
We didn’t.
Urban knew he was the best in the business & gave him whatever he wanted & told him the following: I also coached at ND & realize how many restrictions there are & can tell you that is not the case at OSU...
From what I've heard, it was more about Alford realizing (or being told directly) that he would never be an OC at ND under Kelly
If that's why he left, then that life imo. I definitely wouldn't have wanted him to be OC here.
Best we could have done was some BS Co-OC title where he doesn't really do much as an OC, to set him up to be an actual OC at another program.
He has less responsibility at OSU evidently with more money. No way Urban lets him run the offense.
Yeah. I'm guess that after moving to another school he learned/accept that he's just not going to be an OC, and has now settled in...and cashed in.
Too bad we couldn't get him to do that at ND
We all know there is one reason why Urban wanted Tony Alford. Recruiting.
Coaches are assigned regions .they make the initial contact regardless of position. Position coaches next then coordinators with the head guy closing. I don't know what your premium board says but I've been dealing with recruiters for over 20 years not limited to our own players but kids throughout Southwest Ohio. I was speculating on densons region. I don't know of any school that has coaches criss crossing the country based on position in their initial phase of recruiting.
I'm talking about initial contact. It's done by region. For example Nick saban was the defensive backs coach when he initiated my recruitment to msu. Then o line coach buck nystrom followed by George perles. Of course position coaches are directly involved in the recruitment of the players they will coach. Recruiting is a collaborative effort not a singular one.
Yep and not just running backs. Alford was the point man for ND in Florida. He's one of the best.
Back to the original question of the 2019 class overall.
ND has got their top 2 Safties on the board, but are still kicking the tires on a couple big fish that have versatility (like HG last year).
They got a solid CB in Wallace but will take another big time CB if possible. If they could flip Barnett or maybe Salim.
Have SDE probably wrapped up because they see Spears out there with Cross, but will take a big time guy if possible.
DT is in good shape with Lacey on the board already & ND is looking good with a few others. It seems ND is slow-playing a few guys at DT (Briggs & Rodas) they probably could land now to see if they can get traction with others.
At WDE it really is Na Na they want at this point. But it’s 50-50 with in-state Texas so ND is already making traction with others they like. Colt loves ND but just doesn’t want to leave home. ND likes Hicks a lot & have a great shot with him. DiCosmo is another possibility.
LB is not a huge concern of mine coming off of last year’s homer in LB class. Obviously everyone wants Brandon Smith. But right now ND seems to be the clear leader for Osita who is top 10 LB as well. ND is also in on Henrich & Lytle.
OL is obviously a strength. But will take Zeke, Wormley or another big fish if possible.
TE is a mystery. A few guys ND is in on but probably not getting top TE this year.
WR is also wide open. ND is starting to get traction finally with Bell. Maybe Metchie or Sheffield.
QB is a strange situation to me. Have Phil in 18 & Pyne in 20, so 19 is hard. They are getting Mertz on campus, but he would be day one starter at Wisconsin & probably backup at ND, so not sure why he would flip?
But they want to sign a QB.
RB is a disaster so far, but still early. ND thought Chaz Mellusi was theirs & he is now a Clemson commit. Never got traction with Sampson even though he’s in-state.
ND has great OL & QB commits but is struggling to land a top RB which makes zero sense. Top RBs look for teams with great QB & OL commits. Denson’s job should be easy.
It will be a top 10 class. If ND has a good year & gets a couple late big time guys it could maybe go up. But it will likely be a smaller class than last year.
ND has got their top 2 Safties on the board, but are still kicking the tires on a couple big fish that have versatility (like HG last year).
They got a solid CB in Wallace but will take another big time CB if possible. If they could flip Barnett or maybe Salim.
Have SDE probably wrapped up because they see Spears out there with Cross, but will take a big time guy if possible.
DT is in good shape with Lacey on the board already & ND is looking good with a few others. It seems ND is slow-playing a few guys at DT (Briggs & Rodas) they probably could land now to see if they can get traction with others.
At WDE it really is Na Na they want at this point. But it’s 50-50 with in-state Texas so ND is already making traction with others they like. Colt loves ND but just doesn’t want to leave home. ND likes Hicks a lot & have a great shot with him. DiCosmo is another possibility.
LB is not a huge concern of mine coming off of last year’s homer in LB class. Obviously everyone wants Brandon Smith. But right now ND seems to be the clear leader for Osita who is top 10 LB as well. ND is also in on Henrich & Lytle.
OL is obviously a strength. But will take Zeke, Wormley or another big fish if possible.
TE is a mystery. A few guys ND is in on but probably not getting top TE this year.
WR is also wide open. ND is starting to get traction finally with Bell. Maybe Metchie or Sheffield.
QB is a strange situation to me. Have Phil in 18 & Pyne in 20, so 19 is hard. They are getting Mertz on campus, but he would be day one starter at Wisconsin & probably backup at ND, so not sure why he would flip?
But they want to sign a QB.
RB is a disaster so far, but still early. ND thought Chaz Mellusi was theirs & he is now a Clemson commit. Never got traction with Sampson even though he’s in-state.
ND has great OL & QB commits but is struggling to land a top RB which makes zero sense. Top RBs look for teams with great QB & OL commits. Denson’s job should be easy.
It will be a top 10 class. If ND has a good year & gets a couple late big time guys it could maybe go up. But it will likely be a smaller class than last year.
Actual former ND coaches & players & families post on the Premium board.
I think they probably know better than you, no offense. And it has been laid out very clearly how ND works with their current coaches. And Denson has been relieved of certain duties by Long & Polian.
RB Coach is expected to make first contact, unless the OC or HC decide to die huge recruits. That is what happened with the 5 Star RB Ford. They didn’t even allow Denson to make first contact, Kelly & Long did.
Top 10 class is all you can ask for. Take that every year no doubt. Need need need Nana or someone just as good.
The RB's last year had the highest average y/carry in over decades. They are very well coached. Denson is going nowhere.
The only position where I really disagree with you is SDE.
Every source that I find credible is reporting that the staff now sees Spears as a pew or DT, after seeing how big he is in person this spring.
Also, due to need it the position, I’ve seen comments that we might take as many as 5D is, if we can get the right guys. That would be two more on the strong side to go with cross, and two on the weak side.
Beyond that, I think your summary is accurate
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