If BK didn’t crap all over himself against UM...

[NDinNJ]

and actually had the team prepared to win. Notre Dame would be sitting comfortably in the 4 spot today, and looking forward to consecutive playoff appearances.

instead, everyone has to settle for a middle-tier bowl game and an 11-15 final ranking. That’s the difference between a B-level coach and a guy that’s going to get the team to that next level.

 

[8th Man]

Coaches usually don't win or lose games by themselves. The wins as well as the losses are team efforts. The players wouldn't have won playing as they did with Nick Saban and Vince Lombardi couching on the sideline.

 

[NDinNJ]

That team came out dead. Harbaugh had his team motivated to kick ass against a team with history. and they did. BK takes the approach, it’s business as usual, sometimes 18-21 year olds need that motivation to light a fire under their asses, BK can’t motivate.

 

[tbonesays]

He'd be someone else.

 

[d1042]

and actually had the team prepared to win. Notre Dame would be sitting comfortably in the 4 spot today, and looking forward to consecutive playoff appearances.

instead, everyone has to settle for a middle-tier bowl game and an 11-15 final ranking. That’s the difference between a B-level coach and a guy that’s going to get the team to that next level.

IF Ok, Bama LSU (not yet) and UGA all had the hiccup too, they could make the same contention.
Assuming CU and tOSU are playoff bound then Bama LSU UGA could produce only 1 undefeated, so that 12-1 gets in also. That leaves the UGA vs ND as is head to head playoff determining game. ND lost.

So right back where you started: looking for a bowl.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

and actually had the team prepared to win. Notre Dame would be sitting comfortably in the 4 spot today, and looking forward to consecutive playoff appearances.

instead, everyone has to settle for a middle-tier bowl game and an 11-15 final ranking. That’s the difference between a B-level coach and a guy that’s going to get the team to that next level.

The kids knew they can’t win in the rain.

 

[Kelso86]

Coaches usually don't win or lose games by themselves. The wins as well as the losses are team efforts. The players wouldn't have won playing as they did with Nick Saban and Vince Lombardi couching on the sideline.

"Coaches usually don't win or lose games by themselves"

No -- BUT, preparation begins with them ... and this team was not even remotely prepared to play against Michigan -- that is the troubling aspect to all of this -- especially in the high profile games

 

[napy2121]

Do you guys ever stop moaning I mean even for a day? Nobody is happy about UM but for shits sake everyone put some baileys in the coffee this am and have one happy thought and be thankful about... something.

 

[d1042]

Do you guys ever stop moaning I mean even for a day? Nobody is happy about UM but for shits sake everyone put some baileys in the coffee this am and have one happy thought and be thankful about... something.

have you ever tried Bourbon Cream? if you like Baileys, you will love Bourbon Cream!

 

[napy2121]

have you ever tried Bourbon Cream? if you like Baileys, you will love Bourbon Cream!

I haven’t but that sounds like a great freaking idea! Cheers.

 

[ndhogan]

OP is dead on accurate. I wholeheartedly agree. It happened. It was real. It was unfortunate.

 

[BGI User 1596]

OP is dead on accurate. I wholeheartedly agree. It happened. It was real. It was unfortunate.

You get what you deserve......epic debacle !

 

[BodiTheGreat]

Don't let one defeat cause two defeats.
---- Dinah Shore

 

[mirer03]

and actually had the team prepared to win. Notre Dame would be sitting comfortably in the 4 spot today, and looking forward to consecutive playoff appearances.

instead, everyone has to settle for a middle-tier bowl game and an 11-15 final ranking. That’s the difference between a B-level coach and a guy that’s going to get the team to that next level.

Yeah kelly really crapped the bed .. had nothing to do with players..

Morons.

 

[88ND]

Do you guys ever stop moaning I mean even for a day? Nobody is happy about UM but for shits sake everyone put some baileys in the coffee this am and have one happy thought and be thankful about... something.

The title was pretty clear on what was right around the corner in this post yet you couldn't help yourself?

 

[88ND]

Yeah kelly really crapped the bed .. had nothing to do with players..

Oh ye great supporter of mediocrity and champion of average performances...

If the UM debacle was something nobody ever seen from a Brian Kelly coached team, then you might have a little something.
Unfortunately the Brian Kelly coached team didn't break new ground in Ann Arbor. This type of defeat and performance has happened multiple times under the one they call...Brian Kelly.

It's not like we can all say where on earth did that come from? We(the realists) know EXACTLY where that came from. Brian Kelly. Many other games eerily like the UM game we've seen over a decade. You don't know when it will show it's ugly head but we do know it will in fact show it's ugly head.

If our players need that little "extra" from the coach...nope. Zip. Nada.

Coach Kelly...how much did you have the team practice in wet weather conditions leading up to this game?
Uuuuhhhhhh,,,,,,,,none.

Now that's some damn fine preparation right there. A mastery of sorts...eh'

 

[napy2121]

The title was pretty clear on what was right around the corner in this post yet you couldn't help yourself?

That’s a weird way to look at things I guess so long as you put it in the title you don’t get to get called out for bitching and moaning? OR hear me out, this thread is repetitive garbage and it should be called out for shame.

 

[spenna]

Oh ye great supporter of mediocrity and champion of average performances...

If the UM debacle was something nobody ever seen from a Brian Kelly coached team, then you might have a little something.
Unfortunately the Brian Kelly coached team didn't break new ground in Ann Arbor. This type of defeat and performance has happened multiple times under the one they call...Brian Kelly.

It's not like we can all say where on earth did that come from? We(the realists) know EXACTLY where that came from. Brian Kelly. Many other games eerily like the UM game we've seen over a decade. You don't know when it will show it's ugly head but we do know it will in fact show it's ugly head.

If our players need that little "extra" from the coach...nope. Zip. Nada.

Coach Kelly...how much did you have the team practice in wet weather conditions leading up to this game?
Uuuuhhhhhh,,,,,,,,none.

Now that's some damn fine preparation right there. A mastery of sorts...eh'

People who really care about something never get over certain things

 

[chaseball]

Coaches usually don't win or lose games by themselves. The wins as well as the losses are team efforts. The players wouldn't have won playing as they did with Nick Saban and Vince Lombardi couching on the sideline.

This is a point I've been wanting to touch on for a while.

In college football the coaches are given so much control over the entire program that in a lot of cases, they carry by far the brunt of the weight in terms of a team winning or losing.

It's their job to

• develop HS/teenage talent into men/college football players at the highest level.
• develop assistant coaches into developers of talent
• scout talent nationally
• recruit/sell talent on coming to their program
• Make sure the 85 man roster is balanced/loaded full to the brim so that 2nd/3rd/4th teamers can step in during roster attrition with minimal drop off
• scout the opponent
• develop a scheme to optimize the talent on hand
• develop a gameplan that optimizes chances for winning on gameday
• etc. etc. etc.

Due to all of this control, the head coach is by far the one responsible for the big picture status of the program.

The fact of the matter is when you take a step back and look at Brian Kelly big picture, he simply doesn't have what it takes to do this job good enough to beat the other premiere programs in the country.

The loss to Michigan happened because ND was losing to Michigan from January-October leading up to that game. That falls squarely on the head coach. And this is a pattern that has taken place during Brian Kelly's entire tenure. Substitute Michigan with every other program loss on the schedule over the last 9-10 years.

ND is a B-level team because ND has a B-level man at the helm of the program.

 

[BGI User 1596]

This is a point I've been wanting to touch on for a while.

In college football the coaches are given so much control over the entire program that in a lot of cases, they carry by far the brunt of the weight in terms of a team winning or losing.

It's their job to

• develop HS/teenage talent into men/college football players at the highest level.
• develop assistant coaches into developers of talent
• scout talent nationally
• recruit/sell talent on coming to their program
• Make sure the 85 man roster is balanced/loaded full to the brim so that 2nd/3rd/4th teamers can step in during roster attrition with minimal drop off
• scout the opponent
• develop a scheme to optimize the talent on hand
• develop a gameplan that optimizes chances for winning on gameday
• etc. etc. etc.

Due to all of this control, the head coach is by far the one responsible for the big picture status of the program.

The fact of the matter is when you take a step back and look at Brian Kelly big picture, he simply doesn't have what it takes to do this job good enough to beat the other premiere programs in the country.

The loss to Michigan happened because ND was losing to Michigan from January-October leading up to that game. That falls squarely on the head coach. And this is a pattern that has taken place during Brian Kelly's entire tenure. Substitute Michigan with every other program loss on the schedule over the last 9-10 years.

ND is a B-level team because ND has a B-level man at the helm of the program.

Ouch!

 

[iwish]

That team came out dead. Harbaugh had his team motivated to kick ass against a team with history. and they did. BK takes the approach, it’s business as usual, sometimes 18-21 year olds need that motivation to light a fire under their asses, BK can’t motivate.

Did Harbaugh have his teams motivated the last few years when he got stomped over and over in his big games? It happened and as stated above, it was across the board with coaches and players.

 

[iwish]

That team came out dead. Harbaugh had his team motivated to kick ass against a team with history. and they did. BK takes the approach, it’s business as usual, sometimes 18-21 year olds need that motivation to light a fire under their asses, BK can’t motivate.

Yep, he’s horrible. That’s why all these kids cont8 use to commit to his program, graduates say great things about him, players come back for their 5th year, he took them to the Playoff, hasn’t lost at home the past three years, etc.

 

[88ND]

Did Harbaugh have his teams motivated the last few years when he got stomped over and over in his big games? It happened and as stated above, it was across the board with coaches and players.

But WE (or at least me) aren't talking about Harbaugh nor Michigan.

If Michigan and Harbaugh is your barometer then that explains the problem with ND football.

Thx

 

[88ND]

Yep, he’s horrible. That’s why all these kids cont8 use to commit to his program, graduates say great things about him, players come back for their 5th year, he took them to the Playoff, hasn’t lost at home the past three years, etc.

LOL

Hasn't had a tough opponent at home since
..

Wait for it
.....

His last loss at home

The schedule has been beyond fortunate for BK especially at home.

 

[Pennick4]

2 year extension coming down soon! Stop all the bitching and enjoy another ND win.

 

[NDinNJ]

Did Harbaugh have his teams motivated the last few years when he got stomped over and over in his big games? It happened and as stated above, it was across the board with coaches and players.

I don’t care about Harbaugh or Michigan. I care about ND. If the games like the one against Michigan didn’t happen on a yearly basis most, including myself wouldn’t be complaining about BK.

 

[NDinNJ]

In the past three seasons, Kelly is 31-6. All 6 of those losses were to Top 20 teams. 3 of those losses were to teams that finished in the Top 3. All but 1 of the losses were on the road.

We have a 17 game winning streak at home. Double-digit wins in 4 of the past 5 seasons, if we beat Stanford. Two undefeated regular seasons in the past 8 years. 7-3 record against USC since Kelly took over.

Kelly isn't a perfect coach, by any stretch. But consider this: in his 29 years as a head coach, he only has 2 losing seasons. In the past 10 years, he's posted 3 undefeated regular seasons and won 6 national coach of the year awards. He's pretty damn good.

So the question I have is this: do you propose replacing Kelly after yet another 10 win season? If so, with whom?

He’s an above average coach, yes, but when it comes to facing top tier teams he folds like a lawn chair. anyone who’s followed this team for the last 10 years knows this.
So those in charge have two choices to make

1. Do they continue down the path of 8-10 wins/year knowing ND will never again truly compete for a title as long as BK is coach.

2. Go out and try to hire someone that’s going to take the program to the next level.

 

[NDinNJ]

Yep, he’s horrible. That’s why all these kids cont8 use to commit to his program, graduates say great things about him, players come back for their 5th year, he took them to the Playoff, hasn’t lost at home the past three years, etc.

I never said he was horrible. He just will never win a title. He doesn’t have what it takes. Glad you are content knowing this.

 

[benko's army]

So those in charge have two choices to make

1. Do they continue down the path of 8-10 wins/year knowing ND will never again truly compete for a title as long as BK is coach.

2. Go out and try to hire someone that’s going to take the program to the next level.

So to be clear: you'd advocate firing Kelly and replacing him this year?

 

[NDinNJ]

So to be clear: you'd advocate firing Kelly and replacing him this year?

What’s the goal of the program? To win a title or at least be in the mix and competitive most years.

Has BK given the program any of this during his tenure? No. You may counter and say yes because of the 2 undefeated seasons, but both times ND got hammered.
Will he ever? We know he won’t based on the previous 9 years.

If ND can get a coach that could take the program to the next level, then yes absolutely, otherwise they stay status quo until that someone comes along.

 

[NDinNJ]

IF Ok, Bama LSU (not yet) and UGA all had the hiccup too, they could make the same contention.
Assuming CU and tOSU are playoff bound then Bama LSU UGA could produce only 1 undefeated, so that 12-1 gets in also. That leaves the UGA vs ND as is head to head playoff determining game. ND lost.

So right back where you started: looking for a bowl.

In this scenario, ND’s sole loss would be better than any other teams loss you mentioned except maybe Alabama. That’s something the committee would look at when comparing one loss teams.

 

[chaseball]

In the past three seasons, Kelly is 31-6. All 6 of those losses were to Top 20 teams. 3 of those losses were to teams that finished in the Top 3. All but 1 of the losses were on the road.

We have a 17 game winning streak at home. Double-digit wins in 4 of the past 5 seasons, if we beat Stanford. Two undefeated regular seasons in the past 8 years. 7-3 record against USC since Kelly took over.

Kelly isn't a perfect coach, by any stretch. But consider this: in his 29 years as a head coach, he only has 2 losing seasons. In the past 10 years, he's posted 3 undefeated regular seasons and won 6 national coach of the year awards. He's pretty damn good.

So the question I have is this: do you propose replacing Kelly after yet another 10 win season? If so, with whom?

I made a thread to counter this entire argument. Copied and pasted below:

Any defense of Brian Kelly comes down to program W/L record over the last three years. But as we all know W/L record doesn't tell the whole story...

• It doesn't tell us what the level of competition is/was which can vary widely from year to year in a league with 130+ teams, especially for a team that isn't in a conference.
• What the margin of victory in those games were.
• How much luck might have been involved in those games and who benefited most from it.
• How dominantly or poorly the team performed in those games.
• etc. etc. etc.

When we use a ranking system that accounts for all of these important factors, here is how Brian Kelly ranks in recent years:

2019: #16 (3 games left)
2018: #7
2017: #11

Do these look like the rankings of a team that has any chance of making a playoff or winning a national title anytime soon...Especially when you match up these rankings with the program's middling recruiting rankings over that same time as well?

Some people want to ignore all of the important components listed above, and just keep aimlessly citing Brian Kelly's W/L record as an argument for how lucky ND fans should feel ("best record since lou holtz"), but that's simpleton thinking.

There are WAAY better tools with which to evaluate program performance in the year 2019/2020. These tools do a much better job pinpointing exactly how good a team is. And in Brian Kelly's case, ND now plays multiple poor G5 cupcakes on their schedule, along with 5 games in the worst P5 conference in college football that BK is greatly benefiting from in terms of his W/L record.

So yes, W/L record is really good under Brian Kelly but when put into the proper context, Brian Kelly's W/L record is driven by a REALLY WEAK schedule relative to past Notre Dame teams in past eras.

And when games come around vs top level competition Brian Kelly's program comes crashing back down to earth. Their performance doesn't warrant their gaudy record which is why they can't beat top level competition. Their record is driven more by poor schedule than a team/program on the cusp of greatness.

 

[Golson5]

I made a thread to counter this entire argument. Copied and pasted below:

Any defense of Brian Kelly comes down to program W/L record over the last three years. But as we all know W/L record doesn't tell the whole story...

• It doesn't tell us what the level of competition is/was which can vary widely from year to year in a league with 130+ teams, especially for a team that isn't in a conference.
• What the margin of victory in those games were.
• How much luck might have been involved in those games and who benefited most from it.
• How dominantly or poorly the team performed in those games.
• etc. etc. etc.

When we use a ranking system that accounts for all of these important factors, here is how Brian Kelly ranks in recent years:

2019: #16 (3 games left)
2018: #7
2017: #11

Do these look like the rankings of a team that has any chance of making a playoff or winning a national title anytime soon...Especially when you match up these rankings with the program's middling recruiting rankings over that same time as well?

Some people want to ignore all of the important components listed above, and just keep aimlessly citing Brian Kelly's W/L record as an argument for how lucky ND fans should feel ("best record since lou holtz"), but that's simpleton thinking.

There are WAAY better tools with which to evaluate program performance in the year 2019/2020. These tools do a much better job pinpointing exactly how good a team is. And in Brian Kelly's case, ND now plays multiple poor G5 cupcakes on their schedule, along with 5 games in the worst P5 conference in college football that BK is greatly benefiting from in terms of his W/L record.

So yes, W/L record is really good under Brian Kelly but when put into the proper context, Brian Kelly's W/L record is driven by a REALLY WEAK schedule relative to past Notre Dame teams in past eras.

And when games come around vs top level competition Brian Kelly's program comes crashing back down to earth. Their performance doesn't warrant their gaudy record which is why they can't beat top level competition. Their record is driven more by poor schedule than a team/program on the cusp of greatness.

No one cares about your useless ranking system

 

[d1042]

In this scenario, ND’s sole loss would be better than any other teams loss you mentioned except maybe Alabama. That’s something the committee would look at when comparing one loss teams.

no. ND lost the only 2 competitive games on the schedule.

 

[TDIrish27]

This is a point I've been wanting to touch on for a while.

In college football the coaches are given so much control over the entire program that in a lot of cases, they carry by far the brunt of the weight in terms of a team winning or losing.

It's their job to

• develop HS/teenage talent into men/college football players at the highest level.
• develop assistant coaches into developers of talent
• scout talent nationally
• recruit/sell talent on coming to their program
• Make sure the 85 man roster is balanced/loaded full to the brim so that 2nd/3rd/4th teamers can step in during roster attrition with minimal drop off
• scout the opponent
• develop a scheme to optimize the talent on hand
• develop a gameplan that optimizes chances for winning on gameday
• etc. etc. etc.

Due to all of this control, the head coach is by far the one responsible for the big picture status of the program.

The fact of the matter is when you take a step back and look at Brian Kelly big picture, he simply doesn't have what it takes to do this job good enough to beat the other premiere programs in the country.

The loss to Michigan happened because ND was losing to Michigan from January-October leading up to that game. That falls squarely on the head coach. And this is a pattern that has taken place during Brian Kelly's entire tenure. Substitute Michigan with every other program loss on the schedule over the last 9-10 years.

ND is a B-level team because ND has a B-level man at the helm of the program.

Wisconsin 35- Michigan 0

Splain that Lucy

 

[iwish]

I never said he was horrible. He just will never win a title. He doesn’t have what it takes. Glad you are content knowing this.

I’ll tell you what I’m content with, and that’s rooting for my team and knowing that we have a class act for our coach who cares about his players, the school and has us competing under difficult expectations and recruiting restrictions. I root for the Irish every time they play and hope they win every single game, but win or lose i go on with my life knowing it’s a GAME.....

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Did Harbaugh have his teams motivated the last few years when he got stomped over and over in his big games? It happened and as stated above, it was across the board with coaches and players.

Right. ND has stomped Michigan more often than not in the Kelly era. The guys were flat. Why? I have no idea. However, Harbaugh is NOT as good of a coach as Kelly. Maybe they were motivated because they’re sick of being everyone’s bitch. I think in the next couple of years ND will remain important and Michigan will continue their reign of 3rd or 4th in the Big 10. I’m not too worried about It anymore.

 

[Classic Irish]

What’s the goal of the program? To win a title or at least be in the mix and competitive most years.

Has BK given the program any of this during his tenure? No. You may counter and say yes because of the 2 undefeated seasons, but both times ND got hammered.
Will he ever? We know he won’t based on the previous 9 years.

If ND can get a coach that could take the program to the next level, then yes absolutely, otherwise they stay status quo until that someone comes along.

Clueless.

 

[NDinNJ]

Clueless.

That’s all you got? You know I’m right. Facts hurt. BK hit his peak. What we see is the best we’ll get. At least I’m not delusional.

 

[Classic Irish]

That’s all you got? You know I’m right. Facts hurt. BK hit his peak. What we see is the best we’ll get. At least I’m not delusional.

Ok, you want to get rid of Kelly? So who do you think should be his replacement? And no, I actually think you’re an idiot.