How would this board respond if Kelly treated his kicker like Dabo

[Chitownrealist]

For those of you who were not interested in watching Clemson beat the snot (again) out of the Criminoles yesterday, there was an episode right before the half where Dabo demonstrated (again) what a jackass he can be. For those who do not follow Dabo's tirades it is not easy to do, because he is a media darling. He is rarely called out for his temper tantrums and sideline tirades, which are every bit as epic as Kelly's were, and they are not compiled and publicized the way they are/were for the head football coach at ND. Dabo is great during interviews and everyone likes someone being able to beat Saban, and give it to the Hurricanes and Seminoles like he has. He has built a great program and recruited very well, but the guy can be a complete ass. Below is a link to the only coverage I found on it. You have to watch the 1 minute video in the story to get a complete feel for it.

https://deadspin.com/dabo-swinney-whose-team-is-headed-for-a-blowout-win-an-1839000841?jwsource=cl

I dare to say, that if Brian Kelly acted like this toward Doerer in a game where we were up 28-0 and Doerer missed a FG right before the half to put us up 31-0, there would be a large contingent, including media, that would be running this clip over and over and calling for some sort of response from the admin - potentially severe. I am not a Kelly apologist. I have never gotten over him throwing the Weis recruits under the bus following the 2011 loss to USC (and it's been 8 years), but people need to come to grips with the fact that there are very few college football coaches, even the seemingly "nice"/"cool" ones that are not Grade A jags. That said, Clemson seems to be absolutely fine with it at the moment.

 

[notredamerises23]

Commentators are just laughing it off. But yeah, Kelly got the business end of the stick for his tirades. I think it didn’t help things that Kelly turned almost an unnatural red while screaming which seemed to exacerbate things though Dabo does just as much on the sidelines, yet he is treated differently.

 

[tbonesays]

Commentators are just laughing it off. But yeah, Kelly got the business end of the stick for his tirades. I think it didn’t help things that Kelly turned almost an unnatural red while screaming which seemed to exacerbate things though Dabo does just as much on the sidelines, yet he is treated differently.

Kelly got a week of bad media coverage, normal since we usually lost said game anyway. Probably a stern lecture from JS. So nothing ado about nothing

 

[francade]

Thought the very same thing when I was watching it. Dabo has done a great job but he gets away w/ being just as much or more of a jackass on the sidelines than Kelly’s ever been. It’s the aw shucks schtick that lets him get away w/ it. Saban’s just as bad too. Winning big cures all I guess.

 

[IrishMike409]

There’s a clear double standard.

 

[Toby Smart]

This is not Dabo's only time he has had a tantrum with a kicker. He did it at least once last season. I brought it up in a topic. The response here was that's football. Tough sport for tough people. The Clemson fans, alums, boosters, and student body are all fine with the way it is. The program is winning. Money is flowing. Happy times are here again. I don't blame Dabo. He has been given the license to coach as he sees fit....as long as he keeps winning and the money keeps flowing in.

 

[d1042]

ummm: Crist and Golson ?
Has anyone ever seen BK lose his composure during a game?
Has he ever publicly chastised a player during a game?

 

[chaseball]

Brian Kelly still loses his s*** he's just much better at doing it in blind spots of the camera. NBC also doesn't show the Notre Dame sideline during high emotional plays that don't go Notre Dame's way anymore.

 

[Toby Smart]

Just because you say NBC isn't watching BK, that doesn't mean there aren't a dozen other cameras that are. There are cameras and vid cameras all over the stadium. On the field and in the crowd. There is no big conspiracy that allows BK free reign to chew out his players without being on camera. The "Never Brian Kellys" will always deflect situations like Dabo and Saban back to BK.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

I watched the video and didn't think Swinney's reaction was over the top, although it was hard to decipher what he might have been saying to the kid.

When BK lost it, on the other hand, there is some YouTube video of him (with a very red face) yelling at a player and clearly calling him a "f@#king moron!" I also seem to recall a couple of incidents where BK lost it with Dayne Crist and there was video of BK on the sideline screaming a stream of f-bombs at Crist, with spittle coming out of his mouth. I thought that was a little over the top. I suspect Fr. Jenkins might have had something to say about that, and to Kelly's credit, that hasn't happened for a long time. Kelly can still get a little bit fiery--and I like it when the coach has some fire in his belly--but he has toned down the language a little bit, realizing I am sure that he is on national television and that a stream of f-bombs is not going to play well. But I'd much rather see the fire of Kelly than the maddening stoicism of Ty Willingham.

 

[BGI User 1596]

There’s a clear double standard.

Just like at CNN and MSNBC.

 

[HDK]

I just watched that entire video. Yeah, Swinney is obviously pissed off and publicly berating the kicker, but to compare this to Brian Kelly's second half meltdown against South Florida is a huge stretch.

The reason Kelly's behavior got so much attention is because it was a full out temper tantrum that went on and on. He completely lost his shit on national television and looked like he was going to blow a blood vessel in his temple. You can't really expect your team to respond positively when you, the leader, has totally lost it.

I remember a lot of posters defended Kelly at the time, arguing that it was time someone lit a fire under Notre Dame's entitled players, but I'm of the belief that that is better done in practice or even in private.

I saw an old interview with Bart Starr shortly after his death this year in which he talked about how early in his career, Lombardi would lose it with him on the sideline and at practice, so he requested a meeting to clear the air. To hear Starr tell it, he told Lombardi if he expected him to be the leader he wanted, he had to show confidence in him, and if he had something to complain about, it would be better done in practice. And Lombardi agreed. I think the result speaks for itself.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

I just watched that entire video. Yeah, Swinney is obviously pissed off and publicly berating the kicker, but to compare this to Brian Kelly's second half meltdown against South Florida is a huge stretch.

The reason Kelly's behavior got so much attention is because it was a full out temper tantrum that went on and on. He completely lost his shit on national television and looked like he was going to blow a blood vessel in his temple. You can't really expect your team to respond positively when you, the leader, has totally lost it.

I remember a lot of posters defended Kelly at the time, arguing that it was time someone lit a fire under Notre Dame's entitled players, but I'm of the belief that that is better done in practice or even in private.

I saw an old interview with Bart Starr shortly after his death this year in which he talked about how early in his career, Lombardi would lose it with him on the sideline and at practice, so he requested a meeting to clear the air. To hear Starr tell it, he told Lombardi if he expected him to be the leader he wanted, he had to show confidence in him, and if he had something to complain about, it would be better done in practice. And Lombardi agreed. I think the result speaks for itself.

Starr was absolutely right, and says a lot for Lombardi that he could admit he was wrong about how he handled things. When I served in the Navy I had a CO (commanding officer) that was a total flamer. I used to think he didn't feel good unless he started the day by publicly dressing down or humiliating someone. Smart guy, but had no idea of what it meant to be a leader. The entire crew lacked any respect for him.

 

[Catholicfan95]

The world is soft, it is sad that a coach just doing his job is even a topic of discussion.

 

[napy2121]

Brian Kelly still loses his s*** he's just much better at doing it in blind spots of the camera. NBC also doesn't show the Notre Dame sideline during high emotional plays that don't go Notre Dame's way anymore.

Lol you kinda sound salty that nbc doesn’t show Bk outbursts. I’m sorry this is happening to you. Frankly if it’s true ND is getting protected by nbc in this manner, GREAT, we should get some other benefits from that relationship. I think he has improved a bit in this area but almost all coaches do this and there is clearly a double standard. Ultimately it’s a big ole whatever. For any coach.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Nick Saban is even worse than Dabo. He's a complete tyrant when his kids screw up or when he deals with the media. Bill Belichick runs the Patriots as ruthlessly as they come and he treats the media like sub-humans.

Saban, Belichick and Swinney have national championships in Div 1 and the NFL. Even a guy like Gary Patterson can be a psychopath on the sideline. He's not chastised for it.

Brian Kelly was paraded as a bad guy by ESPN for two reasons.

1. NBC has their home television rights so ESPN isn't as invested in Notre Dame as they are some other teams.

2. Notre Dame is an institution that is perceived as snobby and seeing themselves as "above" others in the national spotlight. The media will take any chance they can get to tear Notre Dame down.

When you win, you can tell people to stick it. Lou Holtz was a tyrant as well. Grabbing guys by the facemask on the sideline and ripping them a new asshole. But we won a Natty and some other Big Bowl games, so he gets the Saban treatment. Brian Kelly does not because he has not won at that level.

You know that's the North American way. We ignore the transgressions and character inconsistencies of those that are ultra successful because we idolize that success. They're held to a different standard in society than people similarly tempered, but less successful.

How many times have we heard somebody say "Bill Belichick is a complete asshole... But it's ok he can get away with it. He's arguably the best coach in football history"... There is always a "but" for those that have seen uber success.

That's the nature of a meritocracy. You gain infallibility to an extent as you build upon your successes.

 

[VTND]

The world is soft, it is sad that a coach just doing his job is even a topic of discussion.

This is exactly what I thought. He didn’t even get in the kids face and addressed essentially the whole team as well.

 

[HDK]

Nick Saban is even worse than Dabo. He's a complete tyrant when his kids screw up or when he deals with the media. Bill Belichick runs the Patriots as ruthlessly as they come and he treats the media like sub-humans.

Saban, Belichick and Swinney have national championships in Div 1 and the NFL. Even a guy like Gary Patterson can be a psychopath on the sideline. He's not chastised for it.

Brian Kelly was paraded as a bad guy by ESPN for two reasons.

1. NBC has their home television rights so ESPN isn't as invested in Notre Dame as they are some other teams.

2. Notre Dame is an institution that is perceived as snobby and seeing themselves as "above" others in the national spotlight. The media will take any chance they can get to tear Notre Dame down.

When you win, you can tell people to stick it. Lou Holtz was a tyrant as well. Grabbing guys by the facemask on the sideline and ripping them a new asshole. But we won a Natty and some other Big Bowl games, so he gets the Saban treatment. Brian Kelly does not because he has not won at that level.

You know that's the North American way. We ignore the transgressions and character inconsistencies of those that are ultra successful because we idolize that success. They're held to a different standard in society than people similarly tempered, but less successful.

How many times have we heard somebody say "Bill Belichick is a complete asshole... But it's ok he can get away with it. He's arguably the best coach in football history"... There is always a "but" for those that have seen uber success.

That's the nature of a meritocracy. You gain infallibility to an extent as you build upon your successes.

I think the Brian Kelly 2011 meltdown against South Florida was really a stupendous show, and that's why it developed such a life of its own. (Plus, unfortunately, in the age of Photoshop, people started purple to his face and spreading it around the Internet. )

Holtz would grab a guy by the face mask or front of the jersey from time to time to give him a good dressing down, but as his players would tell you, the tough stuff came out during practices. For the most part during games, he paced the sidelines or crouched down, chewing on a piece of grass.

 

[Kelso86]

ummm: Crist and Golson ?
Has anyone ever seen BK lose his composure during a game?
Has he ever publicly chastised a player during a game?

"Has anyone ever seen BK lose his composure during a game?
Has he ever publicly chastised a player during a game?"

Go back to 2011 And the South Florida game ... that is all you need to know.

 

[Toby Smart]

It's apparent none of youz guys ever played for an inner city school for an inner city coach in the 1960s. I don't care if you were a starter or buried so deep in the depth chart the coach didn't even know your name, you were fair game for the paddle and/or "suicides".

 

[Kelso86]

It's apparent none of youz guys ever played for an inner city school for an inner city coach in the 1960s. I don't care if you were a starter or buried so deep in the depth chart the coach didn't even know your name, you were fair game for the paddle and/or "suicides".

"It's apparent none of youz guys ever played for an inner city school for an inner city coach in the 1960s."

I did in the 70's -- same type of mentality...

However, the state of the game has changed, and with it, coaching attitudes as well.

 

[IrishInOntario]

It's apparent none of youz guys ever played for an inner city school for an inner city coach in the 1960s. I don't care if you were a starter or buried so deep in the depth chart the coach didn't even know your name, you were fair game for the paddle and/or "suicides".

I've coached with tyrants as well. The best coach I've ever coached alongside can be a maniac on the sidelines. The language that can come out of his mouth would not be suitable for a Navy sailor, let alone a college football team.

Extremely type A, highly successful competitors are often egotistical, narcissistic, high functioning, self-regulated sociopaths.

 

[d1042]

I've coached with tyrants as well. The best coach I've ever coached alongside can be a maniac on the sidelines. The language that can come out of his mouth would not be suitable for a Navy sailor, let alone a college football team.

Extremely type A, highly successful competitors are often egotistical, narcissistic, high functioning, self-regulated sociopaths.

was Woody Hayes a good coach?
Bobby Knight?
Bear Bryant?
Vince lombardi!

Or was Bobby Layne a great leader?

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

I've coached with tyrants as well. The best coach I've ever coached alongside can be a maniac on the sidelines. The language that can come out of his mouth would not be suitable for a Navy sailor, let alone a college football team.

Extremely type A, highly successful competitors are often egotistical, narcissistic, high functioning, self-regulated sociopaths.

I am not a shrinking violet and after serving in the US Navy I have heard (and occasionally used) as much profanity as anyone. (There is a special place on that spectrum for US Marine Corps drill instructors, but even that is changing.) Here is my view:

1. Youth league coaches should NEVER yell at or verbally abuse kids. They are kids. They will make mistakes. And when you yell at them and cuss them out, you are pushing them away from the sport.
2. At the high school level and above, I don't have a problem with a coach raising his or her voice (or using colorful language) if the purpose of it is to get the player's attention and assist the player with improvement of his/her performance. But I think a line is crossed when a coach publicly humiliates or embarrasses a player. That is counterproductive.

I know Bill Belichick can get frosty and dismissive with the media, but I don't recall ever seeing him dress down a player on the sideline with a loud and abusive tongue lashing. Maybe he has done so, but I don't remember it. Saban is a little more animated with players, and he is equally dismissive with the media. There is no denying his success.

Every coach has to coach to his or her style. For every successful screamer coach out there, there are other successful coaches who have adopted a completely different style. John Wooden is a great example of a highly successful coach who always appeared calm and collected. Maybe he chewed players out, but I assume he did it in private. Andy Reid is an NFL coach I have a lot of respect for, and I don't think I have ever seen him publicly blow his top at a player.

 

[twalsh]

Brian Kelly still loses his s*** he's just much better at doing it in blind spots of the camera. NBC also doesn't show the Notre Dame sideline during high emotional plays that don't go Notre Dame's way anymore.

There are no blind spots on a head coach. There are cameras that do nothing but follow him.

 

[twalsh]

"Has anyone ever seen BK lose his composure during a game?
Has he ever publicly chastised a player during a game?"

Go back to 2011 And the South Florida game ... that is all you need to know.

What does it say that your example goes back 8 years?

 

[88ND]

For those of you who were not interested in watching Clemson beat the snot (again) out of the Criminoles yesterday, there was an episode right before the half where Dabo demonstrated (again) what a jackass he can be. For those who do not follow Dabo's tirades it is not easy to do, because he is a media darling. He is rarely called out for his temper tantrums and sideline tirades, which are every bit as epic as Kelly's were, and they are not compiled and publicized the way they are/were for the head football coach at ND. Dabo is great during interviews and everyone likes someone being able to beat Saban, and give it to the Hurricanes and Seminoles like he has. He has built a great program and recruited very well, but the guy can be a complete ass. Below is a link to the only coverage I found on it. You have to watch the 1 minute video in the story to get a complete feel for it.

https://deadspin.com/dabo-swinney-whose-team-is-headed-for-a-blowout-win-an-1839000841?jwsource=cl

I dare to say, that if Brian Kelly acted like this toward Doerer in a game where we were up 28-0 and Doerer missed a FG right before the half to put us up 31-0, there would be a large contingent, including media, that would be running this clip over and over and calling for some sort of response from the admin - potentially severe. I am not a Kelly apologist. I have never gotten over him throwing the Weis recruits under the bus following the 2011 loss to USC (and it's been 8 years), but people need to come to grips with the fact that there are very few college football coaches, even the seemingly "nice"/"cool" ones that are not Grade A jags. That said, Clemson seems to be absolutely fine with it at the moment.

Self serving POV...

Dabo is pushing his players...

But he also would be the first one going bonkers if his kicker hit a 50 yarder befire the half like it was a kick that won a title.

He coaches hard and rewards equally as much.

He wins big games.

I would say if BK actually won some big games like more than once in a decade he'd be extebded a very similar understanding of said behavior.

 

[mbd11]

I didn't think it was that big a deal. He coaches hard. He wasn't chewing the guy out because of that game. He was thinking of big games down the road, letting him know that missing 24 yard FGs isn't acceptable.