How Sad!

[Irish Duck]

We're 5-1 and will be favored in the next 6 games. We may end up with an 11-1 record, this a season after we went 12-1, and before that, we had a 10-3 record. That means that over the past 2 1/2 seasons, we are 27-5. Sure we've come up short (way short) in the last 2 bowl games but 27-5 is pretty damned impressive.

I know we all want to be an elite team and we just aren't there yet but we are still one of the 5 or 6 best teams in the country over that time span.

How sad it is that so many of our fellow posters can't enjoy this success. By just about any measure, this is the best span of ND football since Lou roamed the sideline and yet so many of us can't enjoy it.

Sure you can be critical of how we won and/or the games we lost. I get it but the fact is that we've been winning. Take a breath and enjoy the fact that ND football is back to relevance, even if we are not an elite team. Name one other program that you would trade for our program. Alabama? Clemson? LSU? All of those programs and universities have a different mindset as to academics and student athletes than we do. We're never going to be (hopefully) like any of those universities. We are ND - a unique and special university that at least tries to blend excellence in both academics and athletics.

Take a breath and enjoy what we've got going on...who knows how long it will last.

 

[d1042]

We're 5-1 and will be favored in the next 6 games. We may end up with an 11-1 record, this a season after we went 12-1, and before that, we had a 10-3 record. That means that over the past 2 1/2 seasons, we are 27-5. Sure we've come up short (way short) in the last 2 bowl games but 27-5 is pretty damned impressive.

I know we all want to be an elite team and we just aren't there yet but we are still one of the 5 or 6 best teams in the country over that time span.

How sad it is that so many of our fellow posters can't enjoy this success. By just about any measure, this is the best span of ND football since Lou roamed the sideline and yet so many of us can't enjoy it.

Sure you can be critical of how we won and/or the games we lost. I get it but the fact is that we've been winning. Take a breath and enjoy the fact that ND football is back to relevance, even if we are not an elite team. Name one other program that you would trade for our program. Alabama? Clemson? LSU? All of those programs and universities have a different mindset as to academics and student athletes than we do. We're never going to be (hopefully) like any of those universities. We are ND - a unique and special university that at least tries to blend excellence in both academics and athletics.

Take a breath and enjoy what we've got going on...who knows how long it will last.

Being a Top 10 team is an accomplishment. Who has a problem with that.

 

[NDAFArly]

We didn’t come up short in the last 2 Bowl Games. We beat LSU in the first one.

 

[mirer03]

We are just fine. Not a top 5 team this year but able to compete at a top 10 level. What davies destroyed overnight has taken a longtime to rebuild.

 

[Irishjohn68]

ND can play with anyone in the country not named Clemson or Alabama. Then again no one else is beating those two either.

 

[NDAFArly]

We are just fine. Not a top 5 team this year but able to compete at a top 10 level. What davies destroyed overnight has taken a longtime to rebuild.

If ND wins out they will finish top 5 most likely.

 

[Golson5]

ND can play with anyone in the country not named Clemson or Alabama. Then again no one else is beating those two either.

Disagree this year

 

[NDIRISH53]

If ND wins out they will finish top 5 most likely.

Yup. Top 5 finish and qualifying for a NY6 bowl would be a fantastic season. Just please for the love of god win the damn thing

 

[chaseball]

You see how there is a discussion with arbitrary evidence about where Notre Dame ranks among other programs. and someone like me comes in and says hey there is a system designed specifically to address this topic so that we don't have to guess. I provide that system and Notre Dame's ranking in it, and since it doesn't provide the confirmation biased Notre Dame fans want, the system is disregarded as junk

Notre Dame is not top 5 or top 10... they are somewhere between 10 and 15 in every measure: talent ranking to performance data on the field to recruiting class ranking to their preseason projection.

Being a 10 to 15 football program means that you have very little chances of ever making a playoff or winning it in the event you do get there. I think as Notre Dame fans we should aspire to way more than that. Notre Dame has a blue blood football program with all of the built-in advantages and wealth and power and brand that come with it. their current ranking as a program shouldn't be at the bottom among other blue bloods in modern college football

Where fans see a stellar record since 2017 other fans see that there's a lot of external factors that can impact a win-loss record. Like how good your opponents are probably being one of the biggest of those factors.

I just want to win another national title and all of those important signals and datapoints that indicate a teams national title worthiness aren't getting better or looking up or pointing in the right direction for Notre Dame's football program. Notre Dame has topped out as a 10 to 15 football program.

I'm sorry for revealing that Santa Claus isn't real...but if we ever want to see another national title in our lifetime we have to acknowledge this and demand more and allow the overton window of discourse to shift to a point where criticism it's not only tolerated but acknowledge d accepted and embraced

 

[TheSodFather]

You see how there is a discussion with arbitrary evidence about where Notre Dame ranks among other programs. and someone like me comes in and says hey there is a system designed specifically to address this topic so that we don't have to guess. I provide that system and Notre Dame's ranking in it, and since it doesn't provide the confirmation biased Notre Dame fans want, the system is disregarded as junk

Notre Dame is not top 5 or top 10... they are somewhere between 10 and 15 in every measure: talent ranking to performance data on the field to recruiting class ranking to their preseason projection.

Being a 10 to 15 football program means that you have very little chances of ever making a playoff or winning it in the event you do get there. I think as Notre Dame fans we should aspire to way more than that. Out of all the blue bloods in college football Notre Dame rank's way at the bottom in terms of on-field results over the last 25 years or so.

Where fans see a stellar record other fans see that there's a lot of external factors that can impact a win-loss record. Like how good your opponents are probably being one of the biggest of those factors.

I just want to win another national title and all of those important signals and datapoints that indicate a teams national title worthiness aren't getting better or looking up or pointing in the right direction for Notre Dame's football program.

I'm sorry for revealing that Santa Claus isn't real...but if we ever want to see another national title in our lifetime we have to acknowledge this and demand more and oh wow the overton window to shift to a point where criticism it's not only tolerated but embraced

Somehow someway I knew while reading through this thread that it would end up some kind of feel good Segway to this nightmare

 

[theskibro]

We're 5-1 and will be favored in the next 6 games. We may end up with an 11-1 record, this a season after we went 12-1, and before that, we had a 10-3 record. That means that over the past 2 1/2 seasons, we are 27-5. Sure we've come up short (way short) in the last 2 bowl games but 27-5 is pretty damned impressive.

I know we all want to be an elite team and we just aren't there yet but we are still one of the 5 or 6 best teams in the country over that time span.

How sad it is that so many of our fellow posters can't enjoy this success. By just about any measure, this is the best span of ND football since Lou roamed the sideline and yet so many of us can't enjoy it.

Sure you can be critical of how we won and/or the games we lost. I get it but the fact is that we've been winning. Take a breath and enjoy the fact that ND football is back to relevance, even if we are not an elite team. Name one other program that you would trade for our program. Alabama? Clemson? LSU? All of those programs and universities have a different mindset as to academics and student athletes than we do. We're never going to be (hopefully) like any of those universities. We are ND - a unique and special university that at least tries to blend excellence in both academics and athletics.

Take a breath and enjoy what we've got going on...who knows how long it will last.

I enjoy the team immensely. You assume we can’t be critical and support n enjoy the team

It’s not exclusive. You can expect more from the head coach and still be loyal n enjoy the product

Kelly has proven over n over he is not a big game coach. Proven

It’s not the talent, the speed, the execution. It’s Kelly’s Plan in big games. It’s shameful

 

[Irishjohn68]

I enjoy the team immensely. You assume we can’t be critical and support n enjoy the team

It’s not exclusive. You can expect more from the head coach and still be loyal n enjoy the product

Kelly has proven over n over he is not a big game coach. Proven

It’s not the talent, the speed, the execution. It’s Kelly’s Plan in big games. It’s shameful

ND/Kelly could win a NC and some posters still would not be happy.

 

[chaseball]

ND/Kelly could win a NC and some posters still would not be happy.

Do you have any examples?

 

[theskibro]

ND/Kelly could win a NC and some posters still would not be happy.

Kelly will never win a NC. Unless he changes his game planning. He is one dimensional

Example- those line of scrimmage passes - no down the field passing - second half conservative defense schemes with no rush -

So it has nothing to do with fans not being happy. It has to do with Kelly underachieving every big game

 

[NDAFArly]

I enjoy the team immensely. You assume we can’t be critical and support n enjoy the team

It’s not exclusive. You can expect more from the head coach and still be loyal n enjoy the product

Kelly has proven over n over he is not a big game coach. Proven

It’s not the talent, the speed, the execution. It’s Kelly’s Plan in big games. It’s shameful

It’s funny how many times Lou has debunked this myth. It’s only “big games” when ND loses. When they win it’s no longer a big game. It’s also funny how many times people nationally talk about how BK outcoached other coaches with more talent.
BK is regarded as a top 5 coach nationally.
You post on a free message board. Hmmm

 

[Riverside Irish]

I enjoy the 12 games every year, good or bad. National Champion or not ! You know why?Because I love what ND is, and what they stand for period. Do I miss the days ND was the Alabamas and Ohio state's. Sure do, I understand what ND is, And Im ok with it. The Irish for the last 40 years have been my team and brings me happiness. Regardless of the records. I know we play to win Championships,. Enjoy our Team and Coaches.

 

[theskibro]

It’s funny how many times Lou has debunked this myth. It’s only “big games” when ND loses. When they win it’s no longer a big game. It’s also funny how many times people nationally talk about how BK outcoached other coaches with more talent.
BK is regarded as a top 5 coach nationally.
You post on a free message board. Hmmm

Lou has never, ever debunked losing the big game. What he said is that every game st ND is a big game. And fans n alumni get upset at losses

That is not what I am saying. I am saying that there are legitimate big games as recognized by poll position, etc. these games are top 10 matchups. They are not “ND is every teams target and big game”.

Kelly does not win these big games - ever. Exception might be LSU bowl

Every other big game is a L and that is on him

Lou won Cheerios bowl against favored Florida. Lou won against Miami. Lou won against TA&M. Lou beat FSU. Lou beat West Virginia. Lou beat Colorado except for a bs call on Greg lane

What the heck has Kelly ever done?

Sure Lou lost to AirForce, n others n that is what his quote is about. But he won big games. Kelly not!

Kelly is likely a top 5-10 coach. No argument. Of those top coaches he has the worst record in big games.

And this is. Free message board so what’s your point? That I am a know nothing with an opinion?

Yeah, it’s called posting and maybe the truth in my opinion irks you.

I’m a fan. You r a fan. We can disagree. But hopefully at some point one of us makes s point that is thought provoking and reasonable

 

[HRC08]

Great post, OP! Props.

Here’s hoping that the 2021 class is evidence that the Irish have turned the corner and will land top 10 classes from here on under BK. Instead of top 8 one year and then #16 the following year.

Kids are taking notice and are starting to trust that ND and BK are here to stay.

 

[Ara64]

There's so much BS on this thread that I had to get out the glade. It's a good thing ND is 5-1 now. Can you imagine if we were 2-3? This is the craziest BS I've read in a long time. Good Night everybody and pleasant dreams. Go Irish!

 

[Catholicfan95]

Great post by the OP, shame that once again the board is filled with the same downtrodden gibberish talking about God knows what from the same ol people who know as much about football as my 4 year old cousin. These guys give the board the same stats, same argument day in and day out and expect to change peoples minds. Here is a notion, change yours because your evidence to support your opinions and points to further prove them stink, they are awful and you couldn't hold a football conversation with anyone with sense. Why don't you just start a thread and argue amongst yourselves?

 

[mirer03]

You see how there is a discussion with arbitrary evidence about where Notre Dame ranks among other programs. and someone like me comes in and says hey there is a system designed specifically to address this topic so that we don't have to guess. I provide that system and Notre Dame's ranking in it, and since it doesn't provide the confirmation biased Notre Dame fans want, the system is disregarded as junk

Notre Dame is not top 5 or top 10... they are somewhere between 10 and 15 in every measure: talent ranking to performance data on the field to recruiting class ranking to their preseason projection.

Being a 10 to 15 football program means that you have very little chances of ever making a playoff or winning it in the event you do get there. I think as Notre Dame fans we should aspire to way more than that. Notre Dame has a blue blood football program with all of the built-in advantages and wealth and power and brand that come with it. their current ranking as a program shouldn't be at the bottom among other blue bloods in modern college football

Where fans see a stellar record since 2017 other fans see that there's a lot of external factors that can impact a win-loss record. Like how good your opponents are probably being one of the biggest of those factors.

I just want to win another national title and all of those important signals and datapoints that indicate a teams national title worthiness aren't getting better or looking up or pointing in the right direction for Notre Dame's football program. Notre Dame has topped out as a 10 to 15 football program.

I'm sorry for revealing that Santa Claus isn't real...but if we ever want to see another national title in our lifetime we have to acknowledge this and demand more and allow the overton window of discourse to shift to a point where criticism it's not only tolerated but acknowledge d accepted and embraced

Jist another case of you not understanding. Its cool, we are used to it.

 

[mirer03]

Lou has never, ever debunked losing the big game. What he said is that every game st ND is a big game. And fans n alumni get upset at losses

That is not what I am saying. I am saying that there are legitimate big games as recognized by poll position, etc. these games are top 10 matchups. They are not “ND is every teams target and big game”.

Kelly does not win these big games - ever. Exception might be LSU bowl

Every other big game is a L and that is on him

Lou won Cheerios bowl against favored Florida. Lou won against Miami. Lou won against TA&M. Lou beat FSU. Lou beat West Virginia. Lou beat Colorado except for a bs call on Greg lane

What the heck has Kelly ever done?

Sure Lou lost to AirForce, n others n that is what his quote is about. But he won big games. Kelly not!

Kelly is likely a top 5-10 coach. No argument. Of those top coaches he has the worst record in big games.

And this is. Free message board so what’s your point? That I am a know nothing with an opinion?

Yeah, it’s called posting and maybe the truth in my opinion irks you.

I’m a fan. You r a fan. We can disagree. But hopefully at some point one of us makes s point that is thought provoking and reasonable

Well there was that win on the road at Oklahoma. That no one thought we would win...

 

[Catholicfan95]

Well there was that win on the road at Oklahoma. That no one thought we would win...

That doesn't count since we won lol or maybe there is a 5 year gap where big wins lose credibility. Be prepared for the "yeah well that was just one, BKs lost more than he's won" responses

 

[deadirishpoet]

We're 5-1 and will be favored in the next 6 games. We may end up with an 11-1 record, this a season after we went 12-1, and before that, we had a 10-3 record. That means that over the past 2 1/2 seasons, we are 27-5. Sure we've come up short (way short) in the last 2 bowl games but 27-5 is pretty damned impressive.

I know we all want to be an elite team and we just aren't there yet but we are still one of the 5 or 6 best teams in the country over that time span.

How sad it is that so many of our fellow posters can't enjoy this success. By just about any measure, this is the best span of ND football since Lou roamed the sideline and yet so many of us can't enjoy it.

Sure you can be critical of how we won and/or the games we lost. I get it but the fact is that we've been winning. Take a breath and enjoy the fact that ND football is back to relevance, even if we are not an elite team. Name one other program that you would trade for our program. Alabama? Clemson? LSU? All of those programs and universities have a different mindset as to academics and student athletes than we do. We're never going to be (hopefully) like any of those universities. We are ND - a unique and special university that at least tries to blend excellence in both academics and athletics.

Take a breath and enjoy what we've got going on...who knows how long it will last.

Great post
Recruits notice this as well

 

[echowaker]

We are just fine. Not a top 5 team this year but able to compete at a top 10 level. What davies destroyed overnight has taken a longtime to rebuild.

wow, blaming the lack of sustained success since Holtz left solely on Bob Davie is pretty short sighted. It isn't like the last few years Holtz was there they tore it up. 23-11-1 in his last three years at ND.

 

[echowaker]

You see how there is a discussion with arbitrary evidence about where Notre Dame ranks among other programs. and someone like me comes in and says hey there is a system designed specifically to address this topic so that we don't have to guess. I provide that system and Notre Dame's ranking in it, and since it doesn't provide the confirmation biased Notre Dame fans want, the system is disregarded as junk

Notre Dame is not top 5 or top 10... they are somewhere between 10 and 15 in every measure: talent ranking to performance data on the field to recruiting class ranking to their preseason projection.

Being a 10 to 15 football program means that you have very little chances of ever making a playoff or winning it in the event you do get there. I think as Notre Dame fans we should aspire to way more than that. Notre Dame has a blue blood football program with all of the built-in advantages and wealth and power and brand that come with it. their current ranking as a program shouldn't be at the bottom among other blue bloods in modern college football

Where fans see a stellar record since 2017 other fans see that there's a lot of external factors that can impact a win-loss record. Like how good your opponents are probably being one of the biggest of those factors.

I just want to win another national title and all of those important signals and datapoints that indicate a teams national title worthiness aren't getting better or looking up or pointing in the right direction for Notre Dame's football program. Notre Dame has topped out as a 10 to 15 football program.

I'm sorry for revealing that Santa Claus isn't real...but if we ever want to see another national title in our lifetime we have to acknowledge this and demand more and allow the overton window of discourse to shift to a point where criticism it's not only tolerated but acknowledge d accepted and embraced

actually watching the games would greatly benefit you.

 

[chaseball]

It is funny because I've been saying the same thing for nearly 15 years and yet I'm the one who doesn't understand something. Lol

 

[NDIRISH53]

ND/Kelly could win a NC and some posters still would not be happy.

Absolutely false. I just want ONE before I die. That’s all I ask for

 

[Irishjohn68]

Do you have any examples?

If you have to ask for examples then you must feel guilty.

 

[Irishjohn68]

Absolutely false. I just want ONE before I die. That’s all I ask for

I did not say all posters. There are a few who are determined to be miserable no matter what.

 

[HarlemIrish]

Would this be a fair statement on ND football. BK is winning the games that the Irish are favored to win. They lose to the teams that they are underdogs. I am glad we are winning just wished we could knock off a top tier team.

 

[Kelso86]

Being a Top 10 team is an accomplishment. Who has a problem with that.

"Being a Top 10 team is an accomplishment. Who has a problem with that."

Have you not read the board??? lol

 

[nemeth#5]

Do you have any examples?

One example, while not direct, would be you using a historical based algorithm to criticize the reigning HCOY. Winning is all that matters.... we are winning a lot. The fact that you and others bitch about FP+ leads me and others to believe that you would find a way to bitch or critique ND if they won it all.... ie.... Alabama wasn't in the ship, we got lucky, we caught the SEC in the downturn... etc.

 

[SIhoosier26]

I enjoy the 12 games every year, good or bad. The Irish for the last 40 years have been my team and brings me happiness. Regardless of the records.

 

[SIhoosier26]

That doesn't count since we won lol or maybe there is a 5 year gap where big wins lose credibility. Be prepared for the "yeah well that was just one, BKs lost more than he's won" responses

Kelly has beaten 1 team that finished in the top 10 in his decade at Notre Dame (2013 Michigan State). Won zero major bowl games and been blown out in every big game he's made it to. Not to mention the large amount of upset losses he's had.

I'm as glad as anyone he's been able to turn it around the last few years, but he's still yet to win a big bowl game or anything of note.

Also, it's okay to have high expectations, and Kelly is clearly not above criticism. Criticism of the coach doesn't mean people are rooting for him to fail or that we won't be ecstatic when he succeeds. We just want to see him have a team show up in a big game and actually prove why some people consider him an elite coach.

 

[nemeth#5]

Kelly has beaten 1 team that finished in the top 10 in his decade at Notre Dame (2013 Michigan State). Won zero major bowl games and been blown out in every big game he's made it to. Not to mention the large amount of upset losses he's had.

I'm as glad as anyone he's been able to turn it around the last few years, but he's still yet to win a big bowl game or anything of note.

Also, it's okay to have high expectations, and Kelly is clearly not above criticism. Criticism of the coach doesn't mean people are rooting for him to fail or that we won't be ecstatic when he succeeds. We just want to see him have a team show up in a big game and actually prove why some people consider him an elite coach.

You literally state he beat a top ten team.... then you say hes been blown out in every big game hes made it to..... so which is it? Also, we need to stop with this whole beat a team ranked in the top ten vs a team that finishes in the top ten.... to finish in the top ten you basically need to lose 1 or two games.... so for ND to beat a team that finishes in the top ten, they (the opponent) also have to go undefeated the rest of the year?

I understand you can be critical and still want the team to succeed. Trust me I yell at the TV every Saturday as well. I think what separates some people is what do you actually think coming to a message board and nit-picking and bitching will do? It is almost as if you want to complain because you think/know ND will not win it all so you can say "TOLD YA, I am so smart... " What is the point of being critical... especially of a team that has been on the incline for the last few years and pumping out W's, NFL'ers, and assistants getting promoted? Why not be positive and get over the bad blow outs and upsets that happened years ago.... why bring that crap up... it is irrelevant. All that matters is the future. Just my opinion..... glass half full..... whether with whisky or wine