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F+ update, ND drops to 9th after week 10 bye

chaseball

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Sep 8, 2007
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Notre Dame was at #7 last week, but dropped to #9 this week after the bye. Defense is ranked 5th, offense ranked 14th through week 10.

Notre Dame has been floating around 7th-15th (but have been a lock in the top 10 for the last several weeks). There's also a group in the top 5 starting to pull away from the rest of the pack a bit with F+ ratings at 2.0 or higher. There are TWO 2-loss teams rated higher than ND (Alabama, and Ole Miss).

1. OSU, 2.26
2. Oregon, 2.19
3. Georgia, 2.02
4. Ole Miss, 2.00
5. Texas, 2.00
6. Alabama, 1.89
7. Miami, 1.69
8. Penn State, 1.68
9. Notre Dame 1.67
10. Tennessee, 1.62
11. Indiana, 1.57
12. LSU, 1.45

 
F+ rankings of NDs 4 remaining opponents on schedule:

FSU #80
Virginia #70
USC #20
Army #29
 
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Ole Miss at 4 Lol
After South Carolina (a team Ole Miss beat badly) beat TAMU, Ole Miss got a nice bump into top 5. Their two losses are by a total of 6 points to LSU#12 and Kentucky#40

They've also dominated in all of their wins (less a 12 point victory to OU).
 
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After South Carolina (a team Ole Miss beat badly) beat TAMU, Ole Miss got a nice bump into top 5. Their two losses are by a total of 6 points to LSU#12 and Kentucky#40

They've also dominated in all of their wins (less a 12 point victory to OU).
I know

I laughed out loud about their ranking at 4
 
Notre Dame was at #7 last week, but dropped to #9 this week after the bye. Defense is ranked 5th, offense ranked 14th through week 10.

Notre Dame has been floating around 7th-15th (but have been a lock in the top 10 for the last several weeks). There's also a group in the top 5 starting to pull away from the rest of the pack a bit with F+ ratings at 2.0 or higher. There are TWO 2-loss teams rated higher than ND (Alabama, and Ole Miss).

1. OSU, 2.26
2. Oregon, 2.19
3. Georgia, 2.02
4. Ole Miss, 2.00
5. Texas, 2.00
6. Alabama, 1.89
7. Miami, 1.69
8. Penn State, 1.68
9. Notre Dame 1.67
10. Tennessee, 1.62
11. Indiana, 1.57
12. LSU, 1.45

EXACTLY WHY I CALL ABSOLUTE BS ON THESE S+FP-ZEQ RANKINGS.


In 2018(season) the final f+p+abc silly ranking had Clemson ranked 3rd behind Bama and Georgia. Even though there was only one team @ 15-0 at the end of the year and a statement win against Bama this ranking somewhere had the "data" to put Clemson lower than Bama and Georgia!!! WTF


This nonsense hasn't stopped and now has OSU ranked higher than the team they lost to in Oregon.

Boise State isn't in the Top 12...with an absolute identical record and near resume as OSU.

Yet they aren't beside them which is where they should be. Hell they're not even in the top 12.

This all goes back to the sham AP poll. You have 5 teams in lieu of any record in the top 10 from the SEC. WHY?
If the teams you play are over ranked then it all looks blue sky.
The very same conference that WILL NOT play north the mason dixon line post halloween.
A conference terrified to leave the friendly confines of the south east corner climate.

Bama and the Rebels @ #4 and #6

Come on brotha...
 
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After South Carolina (a team Ole Miss beat badly) beat TAMU, Ole Miss got a nice bump into top 5. Their two losses are by a total of 6 points to LSU#12 and Kentucky#40

They've also dominated in all of their wins (less a 12 point victory to OU).
You just explained why them at 4 is an absolute joke. It looks like it's rewarding close losses and crushing average/bad teams vs actually beating anyone. Ole miss doesn't have a good win. Either does Penn state, miami, or indiana.

I'm very curious to see CFP rankings tomorrow and how they view teams like penn state, miami, indiana that haven't beaten a good team.
 
You just explained why them at 4 is an absolute joke. It looks like it's rewarding close losses and crushing average/bad teams vs actually beating anyone. Ole miss doesn't have a good win. Either does Penn state, miami, or indiana.

I'm very curious to see CFP rankings tomorrow and how they view teams like penn state, miami, indiana that haven't beaten a good team.
The system considers everything down to the play by play level. The best way to describe the system at the highest level is as "a ranking system that adjusts for opponent quality and for luck".
 
The system considers everything down to the play by play level. The best way to describe the system at the highest level is as "a ranking system that adjusts for opponent quality and for luck".
If the system is so bad, you have to change the system
 
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Opponent quality based on what?
For the first 5 or 6 weeks of the new season, "opponent quality" is based on the SP+ preseason projections because the sample size is too small (non existent) to effectively rank teams with F+ data.

And the SP+ preseason projections are based on 3 core football program components:
1. a program's recent production overall (recent seasons weighted heaviest)
2. what players are returning (including transfer portal players) and what did they produce last year?, and
3. the incoming talent from recruiting (recent classes weighted heaviest).

At the 6 or 7 week point, the F+ system takes into consideration 100% of the performance data from the current season, and disregards most of the SP+ preseason projection data to determine each team's F+ rating (and opponent quality is then determined by each team's current in season F+ rating).

So teams are being ranked at this point in the 2024 season based purely on how well their offense, defense, and special teams has produced in the 2024 season down to the play by play level.
 
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For the first 5 or 6 weeks of the new season, "opponent quality" is based on the SP+ preseason projections because the sample size is too small (non existent) to effectively rank teams with F+ data.

And the SP+ preseason projections are based on 3 core football program components:
1. a program's recent production overall (recent seasons weighted heaviest)
2. what players are returning (including transfer portal players) and what did they produce last year?, and
3. the incoming talent from recruiting (recent classes weighted heaviest).

At the 6 or 7 week point, the F+ system takes into consideration 100% of the performance data from the current season, and disregards most of the SP+ preseason projection data to determine each team's F+ rating (and opponent quality is then determined by each team's current in season F+ rating).

So teams are being ranked at this point in the 2024 season based purely on how well their offense, defense, and special teams has produced in the 2024 season down to the play by play level.
When are you gonna start producing that head of the curve next level analysis you keep pounding your chest about? This is a pile of sh!t flawed metrics that would have you handing your weekly paycheck over to the bookies.
 
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For the first 5 or 6 weeks of the new season, "opponent quality" is based on the SP+ preseason projections because the sample size is too small (non existent) to effectively rank teams with F+ data.

And the SP+ preseason projections are based on 3 core football program components:
1. a program's recent production overall (recent seasons weighted heaviest)
2. what players are returning (including transfer portal players) and what did they produce last year?, and
3. the incoming talent from recruiting (recent classes weighted heaviest).

At the 6 or 7 week point, the F+ system takes into consideration 100% of the performance data from the current season, and disregards most of the SP+ preseason projection data to determine each team's F+ rating (and opponent quality is then determined by each team's current in season F+ rating).

So teams are being ranked at this point in the 2024 season based purely on how well their offense, defense, and special teams has produced in the 2024 season down to the play by play level.
Which is nothing but absolute BS.
So these ranknings are based on ...

wait for it...

assumption!!!!

So if team A which is "perceived" to be VERY good beats team B who is "perceived" to be really good, by 4 points....

and then....

wait for it...

Team C who is perceived to be just "good" obliterates team A...

the rankings will have
#1 team A
#2 team b
#3 team C

Why?
Because of...hypothetical BS!

Team A, Team B play a schedule of full of ASSUMED really good teams. So all those stupid teams in that conference up and down the line all get padded because of hypothetical assumptions.
 
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Notre Dame was at #7 last week, but dropped to #9 this week after the bye. Defense is ranked 5th, offense ranked 14th through week 10.

Notre Dame has been floating around 7th-15th (but have been a lock in the top 10 for the last several weeks). There's also a group in the top 5 starting to pull away from the rest of the pack a bit with F+ ratings at 2.0 or higher. There are TWO 2-loss teams rated higher than ND (Alabama, and Ole Miss).

1. OSU, 2.26
2. Oregon, 2.19
3. Georgia, 2.02
4. Ole Miss, 2.00
5. Texas, 2.00
6. Alabama, 1.89
7. Miami, 1.69
8. Penn State, 1.68
9. Notre Dame 1.67
10. Tennessee, 1.62
11. Indiana, 1.57
12. LSU, 1.45

Yawn, what a BS ranking system. Why do you continue to post this garbage that no one but you gives a rats a$$ about? OSU ranked higher than Oregon even though Oregon won head to head. Ole Miss at #4, LMFAO. Complete garbage, F+ is a joke and not worth the paper its printed on. The only ranking that matters is the one that comes out tonight. Enough of this nonsense speculation
 
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EXACTLY WHY I CALL ABSOLUTE BS ON THESE S+FP-ZEQ RANKINGS.


In 2018(season) the final f+p+abc silly ranking had Clemson ranked 3rd behind Bama and Georgia. Even though there was only one team @ 15-0 at the end of the year and a statement win against Bama this ranking somewhere had the "data" to put Clemson lower than Bama and Georgia!!! WTF


This nonsense hasn't stopped and now has OSU ranked higher than the team they lost to in Oregon.

Boise State isn't in the Top 12...with an absolute identical record and near resume as OSU.

Yet they aren't beside them which is where they should be. Hell they're not even in the top 12.

This all goes back to the sham AP poll. You have 5 teams in lieu of any record in the top 10 from the SEC. WHY?
If the teams you play are over ranked then it all looks blue sky.
The very same conference that WILL NOT play north the mason dixon line post halloween.
A conference terrified to leave the friendly confines of the south east corner climate.

Bama and the Rebels @ #4 and #6

Come on brotha...
Exactly, OSU ahead of Oregon, guess the data doesn't look at the most important metric which is head to head results.

2-loss teams Ole Miss #4, #6 Alabama, and #12 LSU ahead of more deserving teams
 
Exactly, OSU ahead of Oregon, guess the data doesn't look at the most important metric which is head to head results.

2-loss teams Ole Miss #4, #6 Alabama, and #12 LSU ahead of more deserving teams
The NFL has it down. No rankings, no bullshit polls, no committees, no SOS arguments, no television shows announcing a top 12 decided by a committee....

Play games, qualify for the playoffs, crown a champion.

What a concept.
 
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The NFL has it down. No rankings, no bullshit polls, no committees, no SOS arguments, no television shows announcing a top 12 decided by a committee....

Play games, qualify for the playoffs, crown a champion.

What a concept.
Different sport. Non comparable
 
The NFL has it down. No rankings, no bullshit polls, no committees, no SOS arguments, no television shows announcing a top 12 decided by a committee....

Play games, qualify for the playoffs, crown a champion.

What a concept.
How in the f*** are you to do that with 113 FBS schools? For once please STHU!
 
When are you gonna start producing that head of the curve next level analysis you keep pounding your chest about? This is a pile of sh!t flawed metrics that would have you handing your weekly paycheck over to the bookies.
Oh, man.... Served!

Still though, why would you even gamble anymore in the age of advanced algorithmic metrics and Ai able to accurately predict the winner to several decimal points. Wouldn't that be where you finally give it up? The whole point of it was being a man, and making your call and letting it all ride. Just something men do to keep their sanity and regulate their testosterone and keep the demons at bay. Or do you need the money? That's how you supplement your income.

One thing's for sure nobody wants no pile of shit metrics to be basing their thinking on. And their picks. Is there a software designer in the house that can help us make sense of all this??
 
Exactly, OSU ahead of Oregon, guess the data doesn't look at the most important metric which is head to head results.

2-loss teams Ole Miss #4, #6 Alabama, and #12 LSU ahead of more deserving teams
Exactly...

and where in theee holy hail is
Boise State University?
Absolutely identical onw loss as OSU.
Both have very similar results although BSU is scoring more...
Yet they aren't anywhere in the top 12.

Just another poll/ranking type thing thumbing it's nose at all the
non elite pretty conferences.
One of these days those idiots will learn parity is higher than ever and continues to gain traction every day.
 
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F+ rankings of NDs 4 remaining opponents on schedule:

FSU #80
Virginia #70
USC #20
Army #29
So you USC is still 20th. I missed that. That must be on account of all those last drive losses. Every single game they could have won if they had been just a bit better in the clutch. So the computer knows they're still a dangerous foe to reckon with. And they're making a switch at QB. Now we get old boy from Hawaii!
 
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Which is nothing but absolute BS.
So these ranknings are based on ...

wait for it...

assumption!!!!

So if team A which is "perceived" to be VERY good beats team B who is "perceived" to be really good, by 4 points....

and then....

wait for it...

Team C who is perceived to be just "good" obliterates team A...

the rankings will have
#1 team A
#2 team b
#3 team C

Why?
Because of...hypothetical BS!

Team A, Team B play a schedule of full of ASSUMED really good teams. So all those stupid teams in that conference up and down the line all get padded because of hypothetical assumptions.
I take your point, but if the “perception” of an opponent’s quality relies on more than a mere qualitative “assumption,” then in fact there is a way of at least comparatively measuring the strength of various teams.

On one hand, you have the various output/containment metrics; and on the other, a metrics-based formula that measures a team’s strength of schedule.

Where the assumptions come in with a metrics-based analysis of opponent quality, in particular, is in the choice of exactly which metrics to use and how ACCURATELY INDICATIVE they prove to be as per a team’s relative strengths.

In other words, what exactly goes into a given STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE qualifier. Without getting into specifics, I’d argue that that is something that can be REASONABLY CALCULATED.

As in any “quantitative” analysis of this type, there will be better and worse performance predictors. Accordingly, cleverer people will select the better ones and vice-versa. But then, this is exactly what this kind of data analysis is all about:

EXTRAPOLATING PATTERNS.

To dismiss it all as merely TOTALLY SUBJECTIVE, I’d argue, is to overstate it.

I’ve experimented with several of these systems myself and have noted that most of them line up with one another while also CLOSELY TRACKING both the quantitative-based power rankings published in the media and the old EYE-TEST method.

At the same time, these systems have proven equally useful in pointing out which teams are being both underrated and overrated in the polls. For instance, my own analysis pointed out how relatively “weak” teams like UM, Illinois and Navy were when facing better competition. And yet, these teams were being ranked – right up until they FELL ON THEIR FACES – when the NUMBERS indicated that there was no real basis for it other than their WON/LOSS records.

I would also point out what I consider to be the INDICATIVE value of team power rankings vs. the PREDICTIVE value. The former is based on how a team has done to date, while the latter assumes outcomes based on past performance. While I would say that there CAN be correlation, I would never argue that it’s in any way ironclad given the that probability is still a function of RANDOMNESS.

But as a means of measuring relative strength based on performance to date, which in fact could – and in my view should – be used as a basis in selecting playoff teams, I view METRICS-BASED POWER RANKINGS as useful an INDICATIVE tool as we have.

Besides, in which area of society are we not MODELING things in a similar way?

None I can think of.
 
I take your point, but if the “perception” of an opponent’s quality relies on more than a mere qualitative “assumption,” then in fact there is a way of at least comparatively measuring the strength of various teams.

On one hand, you have the various output/containment metrics; and on the other, a metrics-based formula that measures a team’s strength of schedule.

Where the assumptions come in with a metrics-based analysis of opponent quality, in particular, is in the choice of exactly which metrics to use and how ACCURATELY INDICATIVE they prove to be as per a team’s relative strengths.

In other words, what exactly goes into a given STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE qualifier. Without getting into specifics, I’d argue that that is something that can be REASONABLY CALCULATED.

As in any “quantitative” analysis of this type, there will be better and worse performance predictors. Accordingly, cleverer people will select the better ones and vice-versa. But then, this is exactly what this kind of data analysis is all about:

EXTRAPOLATING PATTERNS.

To dismiss it all as merely TOTALLY SUBJECTIVE, I’d argue, is to overstate it.

I’ve experimented with several of these systems myself and have noted that most of them line up with one another while also CLOSELY TRACKING both the quantitative-based power rankings published in the media and the old EYE-TEST method.

At the same time, these systems have proven equally useful in pointing out which teams are being both underrated and overrated in the polls. For instance, my own analysis pointed out how relatively “weak” teams like UM, Illinois and Navy were when facing better competition. And yet, these teams were being ranked – right up until they FELL ON THEIR FACES – when the NUMBERS indicated that there was no real basis for it other than their WON/LOSS records.

I would also point out what I consider to be the INDICATIVE value of team power rankings vs. the PREDICTIVE value. The former is based on how a team has done to date, while the latter assumes outcomes based on past performance. While I would say that there CAN be correlation, I would never argue that it’s in any way ironclad given the that probability is still a function of RANDOMNESS.

But as a means of measuring relative strength based on performance to date, which in fact could – and in my view should – be used as a basis in selecting playoff teams, I view METRICS-BASED POWER RANKINGS as useful an INDICATIVE tool as we have.

Besides, in which area of society are we not MODELING things in a similar way?

None I can think of.
So you USC is still 20th. I missed that. That must be on account of all those last drive losses. Every single game they could have won if they had been just a bit better in the clutch. So the computer knows they're still a dangerous foe to reckon with. And they're making a switch at QB. Now we get old boy from Hawaii!
Exactly...

and where in theee holy hail is
Boise State University?
Absolutely identical onw loss as OSU.
Both have very similar results although BSU is scoring more...
Yet they aren't anywhere in the top 12.

Just another poll/ranking type thing thumbing it's nose at all the
non elite pretty conferences.
One of these days those idiots will learn parity is higher than ever and continues to gain traction every day.
Quite a trio.
 
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