Did we know Freeman was a good coach?

SouthFloridaIrish88

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The great thing about evaluating ND head coaches with a prior track record, and then a subsequent past track record, is that all you have to do is just add up the W, s & Ls. The rest is just personal opinion. People just loved Ara & Lou, people just did not like Devine & Kelly. But the bottom line is simply the bottom line. W's and L's

But when take coaches with no prior track record as an FBS head coach, I guess the first place to start is to determine if they a good football coach? Then all the other considerations come into play, leadership, management & organizational, deftness with the media etc. But it should start with are they a good football coach and understand both sides of ball schematically.

Of the 3 prior inexperience Head Coaches, a case can be made the Marcus Freeman was the least qualified to take this job,

Faust-
Was a massively successful Head Coach albeit at HS, but none the less he led a major HS program and as a HS coach, you should be able to relate to young people and be a great teacher of fundamentals. Guys like Gus Malzahn and Art Briles have shown this can work.

Davie-
Like Freeman, Bob Davie was a highly sought-after glamour DC do you remember the Texas A&M "Wrecking Crew"? and just like Freeman, he came to ND and served under a ND Head Coach who won 100 ball games and unlike Freeman, Bob Davie served as Lou's DC for 3 years, not just 1 year. And like Freeman, the defenses he ran (94-96) were inferior to the defenses run by the previous DC RIck Minter (92.93, 05,06) None the less he got the job.

Weis-
Certainly, serving under 2 HOF NFL Head Coaches, wearing 4 Super Bowl Rings on your hand (90,01,03.04) and being QB Coach/OC for the great Tom Brady, would certainly lead anyone to believe that you are a good football coach. Right? Evaluating talent, teaching fundamentals, selecting a coaching staff not so much. Ensuing disaster with the roster, the defense, special teams, ND could attract offensive talent, put points on the board, but could do little else. 16-21 the last 3 years and left the place a freaking disaster area.

Freeman
Marcus Freeman was a GA for 2 years at Kent State, then was hired to be LB Coach / DC under Darrel Hazel and Purdue, BTW another young Jim Tressel protege, (Ohio State Connection #1) and he was subsequently fired, along with the whole staff after a 3-9 season, Then MF was hired to be DC and catch on with a true rising star in the business Luke Fickell (Ohio State Connection #2) Fickell is a defensive guru, and the UC defenses were really good when Freeman was there, but their defense was even better the year after Freeman left and they made the CFP, essential over ND, but virtue of beating ND at ND.

And if we are being completely honest with ourselves, the defenses under Clark Lea were 18-20, were better than Freeman's 2021 defense. FSU, Toledo, V-Tech, UNC and Oklahoma State were not good performances for the Freeman D last year.

We know Freeman is a great recruiter, with a great personality and seems like a really good man. But do we really know much else about the man from a football coaching perspective?

That's a fair question to ask, as we go along here. I honestly hope he gets things turned around, but to be fair history and precedent are not on his side.
 
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Rionegro

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Right place right time for Freeman. Your question is being answered every week and we’ll have enough data points in a year or two
 

Kelso86

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The great thing about evaluating ND head coaches with a prior track record, and then a subsequent past track record, is that all you have to do is just add up the W, s & Ls. The rest is just personal opinion. People just loved Ara & Lou, people just did not like Devine & Kelly. But the bottom line is simply the bottom line. W's and L's

But when take coaches with no prior track record as an FBS head coach, I guess the first place to start is to determine if they a good football coach? Then all the other considerations come into play, leadership, management & organizational, deftness with the media etc. But it should start with are they a good football coach and understand both sides of ball schematically.

Of the 3 prior inexperience Head Coaches, a case can be made the Marcus Freeman was the least qualified to take this job,

Faust-
Was a massively successful Head Coach albeit at HS, but none the less he led a major HS program and as a HS coach, you should be able to relate to young people and be a great teacher of fundamentals. Guys like Gus Malzahn and Art Briles have shown this can work.

Davie-
Like Freeman, Bob Davie was a highly sought-after glamour DC do you remember the Texas A&M "Wrecking Crew"? and just like Freeman, he came to ND and served under a ND Head Coach who won 100 ball games and unlike Freeman, Bob Davie served as Lou's DC for 3 years, not just 1 year. And like Freeman, the defenses he ran (94-96) were inferior to the defenses run by the previous DC RIck Minter (92.93, 05,06) None the less he got the job.

Weis-
Certainly, serving under 2 HOF NFL Head Coaches, wearing 4 Super Bowl Rings on your hand (90,01,03.04) and being QB Coach/OC for the great Tom Brady, would certainly lead anyone to believe that you are a good football coach. Right? Evaluating talent, teaching fundamentals, selecting a coaching staff not so much. Ensuing disaster with the roster, the defense, special teams, ND could attract offensive talent, put points on the board, but could do little else. 16-21 the last 3 years and left the place a freaking disaster area.

Freeman
Marcus Freeman was a GA for 2 years at Kent State, then was hired to be LB Coach / DC under Darrel Hazel and Purdue, BTW another young Jim Tressel protege, (Ohio State Connection #1) and he was subsequently fired, along with the whole staff after a 3-9 season, Then MF was hired to be DC and catch on with a true rising star in the business Luke Fickell (Ohio State Connection #2) Fickell is a defensive guru, and the UC defenses were really good when Freeman was there, but their defense was even better the year after Freeman left and they made the CFP, essential over ND, but virtue of beating ND at ND.

And if we are being completely honest with ourselves, the defenses under Clark Lea were 18-20, were better than Freeman's 2021 defense. FSU, Toledo, V-Tech, UNC and Oklahoma State were not good performances for the Freeman D last year.

We know Freeman is a great recruiter, with a great personality and seems like a really good man. But do we really know much else about the man from a football coaching perspective?

That's a fair question to ask, as we go along here. I honestly hope he gets things turned around, but to be fair history and precedent are not on his side.
To honestly assess Freeman as a good coach -- we need to let the book be written on his time at ND when it is over -- whenever that date may be. Give the young man time to learn and grow into the position (one thing Faust never did)

p.s. -- Rick Minter did not have a good defense in 05-06.
 

DieHard_Irish

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The great thing about evaluating ND head coaches with a prior track record, and then a subsequent past track record, is that all you have to do is just add up the W, s & Ls. The rest is just personal opinion. People just loved Ara & Lou, people just did not like Devine & Kelly. But the bottom line is simply the bottom line. W's and L's

But when take coaches with no prior track record as an FBS head coach, I guess the first place to start is to determine if they a good football coach? Then all the other considerations come into play, leadership, management & organizational, deftness with the media etc. But it should start with are they a good football coach and understand both sides of ball schematically.

Of the 3 prior inexperience Head Coaches, a case can be made the Marcus Freeman was the least qualified to take this job,

Faust-
Was a massively successful Head Coach albeit at HS, but none the less he led a major HS program and as a HS coach, you should be able to relate to young people and be a great teacher of fundamentals. Guys like Gus Malzahn and Art Briles have shown this can work.

Davie-
Like Freeman, Bob Davie was a highly sought-after glamour DC do you remember the Texas A&M "Wrecking Crew"? and just like Freeman, he came to ND and served under a ND Head Coach who won 100 ball games and unlike Freeman, Bob Davie served as Lou's DC for 3 years, not just 1 year. And like Freeman, the defenses he ran (94-96) were inferior to the defenses run by the previous DC RIck Minter (92.93, 05,06) None the less he got the job.

Weis-
Certainly, serving under 2 HOF NFL Head Coaches, wearing 4 Super Bowl Rings on your hand (90,01,03.04) and being QB Coach/OC for the great Tom Brady, would certainly lead anyone to believe that you are a good football coach. Right? Evaluating talent, teaching fundamentals, selecting a coaching staff not so much. Ensuing disaster with the roster, the defense, special teams, ND could attract offensive talent, put points on the board, but could do little else. 16-21 the last 3 years and left the place a freaking disaster area.

Freeman
Marcus Freeman was a GA for 2 years at Kent State, then was hired to be LB Coach / DC under Darrel Hazel and Purdue, BTW another young Jim Tressel protege, (Ohio State Connection #1) and he was subsequently fired, along with the whole staff after a 3-9 season, Then MF was hired to be DC and catch on with a true rising star in the business Luke Fickell (Ohio State Connection #2) Fickell is a defensive guru, and the UC defenses were really good when Freeman was there, but their defense was even better the year after Freeman left and they made the CFP, essential over ND, but virtue of beating ND at ND.

And if we are being completely honest with ourselves, the defenses under Clark Lea were 18-20, were better than Freeman's 2021 defense. FSU, Toledo, V-Tech, UNC and Oklahoma State were not good performances for the Freeman D last year.

We know Freeman is a great recruiter, with a great personality and seems like a really good man. But do we really know much else about the man from a football coaching perspective?

That's a fair question to ask, as we go along here. I honestly hope he gets things turned around, but to be fair history and precedent are not on his side.
I agree with all this except Weis left the program in shambles. Weis' recruiting began the restocking of our cupboard from a talent level perspective. He in fact did inherited a program in shambles. Kelly then built on what he inherited
 
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Get Nasty

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I struggle here. Kelly's first two years didn't go exactly the way anyone wanted but everyone could clearly see the team was headed in a much much better direction. This was by their play on the field despite some losses. The team was clearly being developed, the game plans were good, and the play was good other than some complete bone head mistakes you knew could be corrected.

With freeman and ND this year, the team at times looks like it's taking major steps back. our offense 4 out of 6 games has been one of the worst in the country despite significant talent gaps in our favor 3 out of the 4 of those games.

Where you know ND is headed in the right direction is recruiting. My concern is that will slow down if freeman flat out can't coach, or hire coaches than can develop and help ND win.

Losing to stanford and Marshall put us in a situation where 6-6 is now possible and that's flat out unacceptable with how much talent and experience we had returning. 7-5 will only be acceptable if we show massive improvements but get unlucky with losses. If we look like we did vs stanford again any game moving forward, i just don't know that freeman can recover. Next year needs to be a damn good year and we need momentum and development heading into it.
 

Rionegro

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at this point you have to give the new hire 3 years but It is pretty shocking that a guy with his resume gets the nod at a major power—- no HC experience at any level, not a lot of coordinator experience and not regarded as elite dc. if this doesn’t work out it’ll go down as one of the more poorly thought out hires by an AD in nd history
 

NDblitz

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I struggle here. Kelly's first two years didn't go exactly the way anyone wanted but everyone could clearly see the team was headed in a much much better direction. This was by their play on the field despite some losses. The team was clearly being developed, the game plans were good, and the play was good other than some complete bone head mistakes you knew could be corrected.

You serious Clark? That's really not the vibe I remember feeling post 2011. In fact I was so disgusted post SC 2011 I told my wife "I'm not flying all the way back here to watch this crap until they Win a title. She went to the 2014 Louisville debacle (oh yeah! people forgot about that one) with her brothers and our daughter. Which came after that absolute clunker Northwestern game. I Haven't been to a home game since.
 
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Get Nasty

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I struggle here. Kelly's first two years didn't go exactly the way anyone wanted but everyone could clearly see the team was headed in a much much better direction. This was by their play on the field despite some losses. The team was clearly being developed, the game plans were good, and the play was good other than some complete bone head mistakes you knew could be corrected.

You serious Clark? That's really not the vibe I remember feeling post 2011. In fact I was so disgusted post SC 2011 I told my wife "I'm not flying all the way back here to watch this crap until they Win a title. She went to the 2014 Louisville debacle (oh yeah! people forgot about that one) with her brothers and our daughter. Which came after that absolute clunker Northwestern game. I Haven't been to a home game since.
At times we dominated at UM that year and should have won instead of crazy plays. USF was a crazy 14 point swing with Jonas fumble.

I came away from that season thinking we're a QB away (thought it would be Golson), and the D is young and ready to explode.

The only player we were losing tough to replace was Floyd.

Oline and Dline were drastically improving compared to Weis. To me Oline and Dline provide consistency, then match that with top skill for championships.
 

Golson5

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I struggle here. Kelly's first two years didn't go exactly the way anyone wanted but everyone could clearly see the team was headed in a much much better direction. This was by their play on the field despite some losses. The team was clearly being developed, the game plans were good, and the play was good other than some complete bone head mistakes you knew could be corrected.

With freeman and ND this year, the team at times looks like it's taking major steps back. our offense 4 out of 6 games has been one of the worst in the country despite significant talent gaps in our favor 3 out of the 4 of those games.

Where you know ND is headed in the right direction is recruiting. My concern is that will slow down if freeman flat out can't coach, or hire coaches than can develop and help ND win.

Losing to stanford and Marshall put us in a situation where 6-6 is now possible and that's flat out unacceptable with how much talent and experience we had returning. 7-5 will only be acceptable if we show massive improvements but get unlucky with losses. If we look like we did vs stanford again any game moving forward, i just don't know that freeman can recover. Next year needs to be a damn good year and we need momentum and development heading into it.
You clearly have forgotten Kellys first year. This is nonsense.

We started out 1 and 3 and then Navy blew us out abd we lost to Tulsa. Navy beat us by 18.

I wasnt on here but I highly highly doubt you were saying looks like we were headed in the right direction after Tulsa. If you say that, you are lying

We started 4 and 5 and had 2 humiliating losses
 

HDK

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I struggle here. Kelly's first two years didn't go exactly the way anyone wanted but everyone could clearly see the team was headed in a much much better direction. This was by their play on the field despite some losses. The team was clearly being developed, the game plans were good, and the play was good other than some complete bone head mistakes you knew could be corrected.

You serious Clark? That's really not the vibe I remember feeling post 2011. In fact I was so disgusted post SC 2011 I told my wife "I'm not flying all the way back here to watch this crap until they Win a title. She went to the 2014 Louisville debacle (oh yeah! people forgot about that one) with her brothers and our daughter. Which came after that absolute clunker Northwestern game. I Haven't been to a home game since.
LOL...I had some of the same feelings. I thought the 2011 season was just a pile of steaming dog waste. I was optimistic coming into that season with the way the team turned things around the second half of the 2010 season after all the early season problems.
 

Get Nasty

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You clearly have forgotten Kellys first year. This is nonsense.

We started out 1 and 3 and then Navy blew us out abd we lost to Tulsa. Navy beat us by 18.

I wasnt on here but I highly highly doubt you were saying looks like we were headed in the right direction after Tulsa. If you say that, you are lying

We started 4 and 5 and had 2 humiliating losses
no doubt I and most of us were pissed after Navy and Tulsa. But you could see signs of better days ahead in every game other than maybe Navy and stanford. Navy was pure Diaco and Kelly not having a clue how to defend them.

As you know i'm not a kelly homer but we lost almost everything from a 6-6 2009 team, vs we returned almost everything from a 2021 11-1 team. We are returning like 16 of 22 starters from 2021. Expectations were not the same at all going into 2010 as they were for 2022.

We were tying to finally just start winning games in 2010 vs we should be trying to dominate lesser opponents in 2022.

If I ranked what's most disappointing this year it would be

1. Physicality - I thought Freeman would have the team playing so hard and physical yet we are a very soft team and get pushed around both lines and don't want to tackle. Our lines have played down to competition.
2. Game planning - Some really dumb game plans especially on O but D as well. D is less game plan and more schemes around 3rd and long, and letting the other team dictate play
3. Execution - Freeman talks about this a lot, there's mental mistakes happening all over both sides of the ball that clearly let you know practices aren't working
 

echowaker

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I agree with all this except Weis left the program in shambles. Weis' recruiting began the restocking of our cupboard from a talent level perspective. He in fact did inherited a program in shambles. Kelly then built on what he inherited
Weis left some good players but the program itself was in absolute shambles. The culture was awful and remarkably soft. No one ever did less for more than Chuck Weis.
 

Kelso86

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no doubt I and most of us were pissed after Navy and Tulsa. But you could see signs of better days ahead in every game other than maybe Navy and stanford. Navy was pure Diaco and Kelly not having a clue how to defend them.

As you know i'm not a kelly homer but we lost almost everything from a 6-6 2009 team, vs we returned almost everything from a 2021 11-1 team. We are returning like 16 of 22 starters from 2021. Expectations were not the same at all going into 2010 as they were for 2022.

We were tying to finally just start winning games in 2010 vs we should be trying to dominate lesser opponents in 2022.

If I ranked what's most disappointing this year it would be

1. Physicality - I thought Freeman would have the team playing so hard and physical yet we are a very soft team and get pushed around both lines and don't want to tackle. Our lines have played down to competition.
2. Game planning - Some really dumb game plans especially on O but D as well. D is less game plan and more schemes around 3rd and long, and letting the other team dictate play
3. Execution - Freeman talks about this a lot, there's mental mistakes happening all over both sides of the ball that clearly let you know practices aren't working
"We are returning like 16 of 22 starters from 2021."

BUT -- missing of those 6 -- a QB who can throw the ball downfield, a depleted WR room -- those are big chunks missing
 
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Golson5

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no doubt I and most of us were pissed after Navy and Tulsa. But you could see signs of better days ahead in every game other than maybe Navy and stanford. Navy was pure Diaco and Kelly not having a clue how to defend them.

As you know i'm not a kelly homer but we lost almost everything from a 6-6 2009 team, vs we returned almost everything from a 2021 11-1 team. We are returning like 16 of 22 starters from 2021. Expectations were not the same at all going into 2010 as they were for 2022.

We were tying to finally just start winning games in 2010 vs we should be trying to dominate lesser opponents in 2022.

If I ranked what's most disappointing this year it would be

1. Physicality - I thought Freeman would have the team playing so hard and physical yet we are a very soft team and get pushed around both lines and don't want to tackle. Our lines have played down to competition.
2. Game planning - Some really dumb game plans especially on O but D as well. D is less game plan and more schemes around 3rd and long, and letting the other team dictate play
3. Execution - Freeman talks about this a lot, there's mental mistakes happening all over both sides of the ball that clearly let you know practices aren't working
Come on. You're lying. You saw signs of better days when we got beat by Tulsa. Kellys coaching decisions in that game were worse than any Freeman has made thus far. Dont blame only Diaco for Navy. We scored 17 points. What was Kelly known for? Offense

Stanford destroyed us physically that year. They blew us out. And we lost to unranked Mich and Msu

This is revisionist history. You're full of it here.

That team was returning Mike Floyd, Kyle Rudolph, Harrison Smith, Manti Teo, Darrin Walls. Had Eifert Jonas Gray Theo Riddick TJ Jones,Robert Hughes Armando Allen Cierre Wood KLM

That team had a boatload of talent and big time returning players.

Weis had talent here left for BK. He just couldn't coach.
 
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mbd11

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You clearly have forgotten Kellys first year. This is nonsense.

We started out 1 and 3 and then Navy blew us out abd we lost to Tulsa. Navy beat us by 18.

I wasnt on here but I highly highly doubt you were saying looks like we were headed in the right direction after Tulsa. If you say that, you are lying

We started 4 and 5 and had 2 humiliating losses
When we beat a good Utah team 28-3 that November, that started us on a 4-game winning streak to end the season, culminating with a 33-17 bowl win over Miami. So there was plenty of cause for optimism after that season.
 
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Golson5

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When we beat a good Utah team 28-3 that November, that started us on a 4-game winning streak to end the season, culminating with a 33-17 bowl win over Miami. So there was plenty of cause for optimism after that season.
Yes, after. You can only compare at the same time as we dont know the future and how this season will end
 

SouthFloridaIrish88

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Brian Kelly is still sucking all the oxygen out of the room. This is about Marcus Freeman. Brian Kelly has another crack at a Top 10 team at home this week. If LSU beats Ole Miss and ND loses to UNLV. I plan on jumping from my condo balcony. FYI, I live on the 6th floor of a 6-story condominium.
 

NDblitz

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You clearly have forgotten Kellys first year. This is nonsense.

We started out 1 and 3 and then Navy blew us out abd we lost to Tulsa. Navy beat us by 18.

I wasnt on here but I highly highly doubt you were saying looks like we were headed in the right direction after Tulsa. If you say that, you are lying

We started 4 and 5 and had 2 humiliating losses
And.... a way easier schedule.
 

HDK

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Yes, after. You can only compare at the same time as we dont know the future and how this season will end
What we did know was that Kelly had a decade of experience and a track record of success. A decade later, it was pretty obvious to everyone that he was a very good coach who could just not make that final step.

With Freeman, we got a fairy tale hire. After only one year at ND it's impossible to say whether he would have even been a great DC. I remember our '21 defense giving up a lot of big plays and being in odd lineups that even the TV announcers questioned -- and when they are doing it, you know something's out of whack.

Our fans have short fuses. Most are ready to run the whole coaching staff out of town. Those who aren't that upset about things are just hoping Freeman grows into the job quickly because I think even his defenders realize he's not ready.
 

Get Nasty

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Come on. You're lying. You saw signs of better days when we got beat by Tulsa. Kellys coaching decisions in that game were worse than any Freeman has made thus far. Dont blame only Diaco for Navy. We scored 17 points. What was Kelly known for? Offense

Stanford destroyed us physically that year. They blew us out. And we lost to unranked Mich and Msu

This is revisionist history. You're full of it here.

That team was returning Mike Floyd, Kyle Rudolph, Harrison Smith, Manti Teo, Darrin Walls. Had Eifert Jonas Gray Theo Riddick TJ Jones,Robert Hughes Armando Allen Cierre Wood KLM

That team had a boatload of talent and big time returning players.

Weis had talent here left for BK. He just couldn't coach.
Those players other than Floyd hadn’t done squat and weren’t starters, a couple on D were though.
Again freeman has an old experienced talented team playing crappy
 

Golson5

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Those players other than Floyd hadn’t done squat and weren’t starters, a couple on D were though.
Again freeman has an old experienced talented team playing crappy
Kyle Rudolph wasn't a starter? Harrison wasnt? Manti wasnt? Darrin Walls didnt start? There were other very good starters I mentioned as well. Ever hear of Trevor Robinson? Robert Blanton?

Are you sure you watched Notre Dame prior to the last 5 years?

Doesnt sound like it

And we're inexperienced at the most important position in sports....
 
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savvyandsassier

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Right, MF was a pretty boy, with a nice enough superficial track record and resume, and that's why he was hired. And nobody else would have hired him, nor was looking to hire him, but ND would indeed be the one exception. And the fact that he was already here, and he could flash his baby blues as it were, enough times to completely transfix Jack Swarbrick, who otherwise would have absolutely no business hiring this guy, and definitely would not have. I could understand trying to somehow keep him on as DC, whoever the new HC might be, and maybe they could have worked something like that out.....

But without question, IMO, as far as what happened where MF ended up our HC to replace ND's all-time winning coach BK, was because Swarbrick was simply not going to let him get away. And if that means hiring this extremely unqualified person in MF, to be the HC of the ND football team, then that's just what it's going to be. And that's it. This was not a football-based decision, it was not a merit-based decision. And as far as Jack Swarbrick was concerned, MF was not walking out that door. And there wasn't much more deliberation put into it than that.

The whole thing was a fait accompli the moment BK excused himself from old boy's living room in Vancouver, WA to take that fateful call on his cell.....
 

NIN Irish

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Brian Kelly is still sucking all the oxygen out of the room. This is about Marcus Freeman. Brian Kelly has another crack at a Top 10 team at home this week. If LSU beats Ole Miss and ND loses to UNLV. I plan on jumping from my condo balcony. FYI, I live on the 6th floor of a 6-story condominium.
Don't get your hopes up. Kelly's record against the top 10 is terrible.
 

Golson5

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Right, MF was a pretty boy, with a nice enough superficial track record and resume, and that's why he was hired. And nobody else would have hired him, nor was looking to hire him, but ND would indeed be the one exception. And the fact that he was already here, and he could flash his baby blues as it were, enough times to completely transfix Jack Swarbrick, who otherwise would have absolutely no business hiring this guy, and definitely would not have. I could understand trying to somehow keep him on as DC, whoever the new HC might be, and maybe they could have worked something like that out.....

But without question, IMO, as far as what happened where MF ended up our HC to replace ND's all-time winning coach BK, was because Swarbrick was simply not going to let him get away. And if that means hiring this extremely unqualified person in MF, to be the HC of the ND football team, then that's just what it's going to be. And that's it. This was not a football-based decision, it was not a merit-based decision. And as far as Jack Swarbrick was concerned, MF was not walking out that door. And there wasn't much more deliberation put into it than that.

The whole thing was a fait accompli the moment BK excused himself from old boy's living room in Vancouver, WA to take that fateful call on his cell.....
You are obsessed with MFs looks. Just come out already
 

Get Nasty

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Kyle Rudolph wasn't a starter? Harrison wasnt? Manti wasnt? Darrin Walls didnt start? There were other very good starters I mentioned as well. Ever hear of Trevor Robinson? Robert Blanton?

Are you sure you watched Notre Dame prior to the last 5 years?

Doesnt sound like it

And we're inexperienced at the most important position in sports....
Walls was Terrible Rudolph had coming out party under Kelly, Harrison wasn’t good until Kelly, same with blanton, same with Trevor

it’s called coaching and you saw the improvement, our current coaching staff is coaching regression.
 
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notredamerises23

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I struggle here. Kelly's first two years didn't go exactly the way anyone wanted but everyone could clearly see the team was headed in a much much better direction. This was by their play on the field despite some losses. The team was clearly being developed, the game plans were good, and the play was good other than some complete bone head mistakes you knew could be corrected.

With freeman and ND this year, the team at times looks like it's taking major steps back. our offense 4 out of 6 games has been one of the worst in the country despite significant talent gaps in our favor 3 out of the 4 of those games.

Where you know ND is headed in the right direction is recruiting. My concern is that will slow down if freeman flat out can't coach, or hire coaches than can develop and help ND win.

Losing to stanford and Marshall put us in a situation where 6-6 is now possible and that's flat out unacceptable with how much talent and experience we had returning. 7-5 will only be acceptable if we show massive improvements but get unlucky with losses. If we look like we did vs stanford again any game moving forward, i just don't know that freeman can recover. Next year needs to be a damn good year and we need momentum and development heading into it.
A lot of this is true, but the difference is that Kelly followed Weis who took us to the nadir while Freeman is following Kelly who had ND as at least a top 10 program that was cleanly run. Anything or anyone was better than Mr. “Schematic advantage.”
 

notredamerises23

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You are obsessed with MFs looks. Just come out already
His looks are a big part of the overall discussion, though. It‘s almost certain that Freeman’s good looks have a lot to do with how he’s perceived, how he might have had opportunities he wouldn’t otherwise have (good chance), and how he recruits.
 

Golson5

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Walls was Terrible Rudolph had coming out party under Kelly, Harrison wasn’t good until Kelly, same with blanton, same with Trevor

it’s called coaching and you saw the improvement, our current coaching staff is coaching regression.
Nonsense. Walls was a good player and played 5 years in the nfl. Rudolph didnt have his coming out party under Kelly lol. He only played in 6 games and his stats the year before were better.

You didn't see the improvement the first year. We were 4 and 5 and had 3 humiliating losses. We finished 8 and 5 because we did close strong. But the first 9 games of Kelly was a disaster

The offense actually got worse. In 2009 we averaged 30 ppg. In 2010 we averaged 26ppg.

You're lying to yourself. Maybe you werent a fan then.
 
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Golson5

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His looks are a big part of the overall discussion, though. It‘s almost certain that Freeman’s good looks have a lot to do with how he’s perceived, how he might have had opportunities he wouldn’t otherwise have (good chance), and how he recruits.
That's a joke lol. Who gives a shit about his looks. That's freaking weird.
 

BGI User 756

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I struggle here. Kelly's first two years didn't go exactly the way anyone wanted but everyone could clearly see the team was headed in a much much better direction. This was by their play on the field despite some losses. The team was clearly being developed, the game plans were good, and the play was good other than some complete bone head mistakes you knew could be corrected.

With freeman and ND this year, the team at times looks like it's taking major steps back. our offense 4 out of 6 games has been one of the worst in the country despite significant talent gaps in our favor 3 out of the 4 of those games.

Where you know ND is headed in the right direction is recruiting. My concern is that will slow down if freeman flat out can't coach, or hire coaches than can develop and help ND win.

Losing to stanford and Marshall put us in a situation where 6-6 is now possible and that's flat out unacceptable with how much talent and experience we had returning. 7-5 will only be acceptable if we show massive improvements but get unlucky with losses. If we look like we did vs stanford again any game moving forward, i just don't know that freeman can recover. Next year needs to be a damn good year and we need momentum and development heading into it.
Kelly’s first 2 seasons were both 8-5. You forget how many people including you dubbed him “8-4 man”?
 

beachcardinal

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You clearly have forgotten Kellys first year. This is nonsense.

We started out 1 and 3 and then Navy blew us out abd we lost to Tulsa. Navy beat us by 18.

I wasnt on here but I highly highly doubt you were saying looks like we were headed in the right direction after Tulsa. If you say that, you are lying

We started 4 and 5 and had 2 humiliating losses
I think Kelly is a very good coach and even I was shocked by the decision to pass in the Tulsa game.
 
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Zorich 88

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The great thing about evaluating ND head coaches with a prior track record, and then a subsequent past track record, is that all you have to do is just add up the W, s & Ls. The rest is just personal opinion. People just loved Ara & Lou, people just did not like Devine & Kelly. But the bottom line is simply the bottom line. W's and L's

But when take coaches with no prior track record as an FBS head coach, I guess the first place to start is to determine if they a good football coach? Then all the other considerations come into play, leadership, management & organizational, deftness with the media etc. But it should start with are they a good football coach and understand both sides of ball schematically.

Of the 3 prior inexperience Head Coaches, a case can be made the Marcus Freeman was the least qualified to take this job,

Faust-
Was a massively successful Head Coach albeit at HS, but none the less he led a major HS program and as a HS coach, you should be able to relate to young people and be a great teacher of fundamentals. Guys like Gus Malzahn and Art Briles have shown this can work.

Davie-
Like Freeman, Bob Davie was a highly sought-after glamour DC do you remember the Texas A&M "Wrecking Crew"? and just like Freeman, he came to ND and served under a ND Head Coach who won 100 ball games and unlike Freeman, Bob Davie served as Lou's DC for 3 years, not just 1 year. And like Freeman, the defenses he ran (94-96) were inferior to the defenses run by the previous DC RIck Minter (92.93, 05,06) None the less he got the job.

Weis-
Certainly, serving under 2 HOF NFL Head Coaches, wearing 4 Super Bowl Rings on your hand (90,01,03.04) and being QB Coach/OC for the great Tom Brady, would certainly lead anyone to believe that you are a good football coach. Right? Evaluating talent, teaching fundamentals, selecting a coaching staff not so much. Ensuing disaster with the roster, the defense, special teams, ND could attract offensive talent, put points on the board, but could do little else. 16-21 the last 3 years and left the place a freaking disaster area.

Freeman
Marcus Freeman was a GA for 2 years at Kent State, then was hired to be LB Coach / DC under Darrel Hazel and Purdue, BTW another young Jim Tressel protege, (Ohio State Connection #1) and he was subsequently fired, along with the whole staff after a 3-9 season, Then MF was hired to be DC and catch on with a true rising star in the business Luke Fickell (Ohio State Connection #2) Fickell is a defensive guru, and the UC defenses were really good when Freeman was there, but their defense was even better the year after Freeman left and they made the CFP, essential over ND, but virtue of beating ND at ND.

And if we are being completely honest with ourselves, the defenses under Clark Lea were 18-20, were better than Freeman's 2021 defense. FSU, Toledo, V-Tech, UNC and Oklahoma State were not good performances for the Freeman D last year.

We know Freeman is a great recruiter, with a great personality and seems like a really good man. But do we really know much else about the man from a football coaching perspective?

That's a fair question to ask, as we go along here. I honestly hope he gets things turned around, but to be fair history and precedent are not on his side.
You could have saved yourself a lot of time writing and researching this topic. Every point you brought up has been brought up numerous times.

The counter will then go,

Dabo
Lincoln
Smart

All had zero HC experience but it worked for them.
 

Golson5

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So… you don’t think how he looks plays into the opportunities and success he’s had? That they aren’t part of his recruiting success?
No on his success. Maybe a very small part in recruiting. That's about it. It's really irrelevant and weird
 

mbd11

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Nonsense. Walls was a good player and played 5 years in the nfl. Rudolph didnt have his coming out party under Kelly lol. He only played in 6 games and his stats the year before were better.

You didn't see the improvement the first year. We were 4 and 5 and had 3 humiliating losses. We finished 8 and 5 because we did close strong. But the first 9 games of Kelly was a disaster

The offense actually got worse. In 2009 we averaged 30 ppg. In 2010 we averaged 26ppg.

You're lying to yourself. Maybe you werent a fan then.
Yeah, but there was improvement, and we finished strong (and we finally beat USC). That's what you want in a first year of a HC. Criticizing Kelly for an 8-5 overall record that year is like criticizing Nick Saban because he went 7-6 his first year at Alabama.
 

Golson5

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Yeah, but there was improvement, and we finished strong (and we finally beat USC). That's what you want in a first year of a HC. Criticizing Kelly for an 8-5 overall record that year is like criticizing Nick Saban because he went 7-6 his first year at Alabama.
Improvement from week 10 and on. Not before. We were awful after 9 games. That's my point. Usc stunk that year
 

Get Nasty

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Kelly’s first 2 seasons were both 8-5. You forget how many people including you dubbed him “8-4 man”?
I liked so many things Kelly did with program early on to improve it…. I liked he wasn’t going to put up with BS play, I did not know he wasn’t going to be good with elite qbs and hiring friends of his
 

Get Nasty

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Nonsense. Walls was a good player and played 5 years in the nfl. Rudolph didnt have his coming out party under Kelly lol. He only played in 6 games and his stats the year before were better.

You didn't see the improvement the first year. We were 4 and 5 and had 3 humiliating losses. We finished 8 and 5 because we did close strong. But the first 9 games of Kelly was a disaster

The offense actually got worse. In 2009 we averaged 30 ppg. In 2010 we averaged 26ppg.

You're lying to yourself. Maybe you werent a fan then.
Walls was not good but that’s fine,

rudolph had big games under Kelly and got injured

no shit offense got worse, we lost 3 year starting qb, nfl wr, oline , rb we only returned 3 starters on offense in 2010

this year we returned 9 from bowl game starters
 

Golson5

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Walls was not good but that’s fine,

rudolph had big games under Kelly and got injured

no shit offense got worse, we lost 3 year starting qb, nfl wr, oline , rb we only returned 3 starters on offense in 2010

this year we returned 9 from bowl game starters
Walls was really good. He started games in the nfl. Clueless

Rudolph was good the year prior

The offense had mike floyd kyle rudolph theo riddick. It shouldnt have got worse. 26ppg was pathetic with that talent. We returned more than 3 starters. Floyd rudolph allen and other Ol were returning starters. This is a lie
 
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Harry Hondo

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Kelly’s first 2 seasons were both 8-5. You forget how many people including you dubbed him “8-4 man”?
Kelly had a huge advantage though, he had been a successful college head coach and at more than one school.

Based on previous attempts to hire a guy with no college HC experience I’d say Freeman’s chances of success here are slim.