Did OL show improvement?

[Telx1]

I’m conflicted about Quinn and the job he is doing as OL coach. He has shown to be a really good recruiter, but of course ND annually recruits the OL positions very well. Still, he has great enthusiasm for ND and connects with young recruits, and appears very well liked by his players, and he’s bringing in outstanding classes of talent. As to whether he is doing a good job developing the talent is up for discussion. Losing two starters to the first round of the NFL and then losing your best lineman in Barr are major challenges, but the question is how well did our OL develop and show improvement. In my view, We had three players show significant improvement during the season: Eichenberg and Banks and Hainsey, with Hainsey starting poorly with his ankle injury and finishing strong. Mustipher was very inconsistent, and Kraemer seemed to regress until he showed some life with his benching. That said, I was mostly disappointed as I expected Eichenberg and Mustipher and Kraemer and Hainsey to all start off at a higher level, and of these four, only Eichenberg and Hainsey reached that level and that was towards the end of the season.

So, interested in people’s view of the OL play, and perspectives on whether Quinn has shown the ability to develop the kind of talent he is successfully recruiting.

 

[jcswoopnh]

I’m conflicted about Quinn and the job he is doing as OL coach. He has shown to be a really good recruiter, but of course ND annually recruits the OL positions very well. Still, he has great enthusiasm for ND and connects with young recruits, and appears very well liked by his players, and he’s bringing in outstanding classes of talent. As to whether he is doing a good job developing the talent is up for discussion. Losing two starters to the first round of the NFL and then losing your best lineman in Barr are major challenges, but the question is how well did our OL develop and show improvement. In my view, We had three players show significant improvement during the season: Eichenberg and Banks and Hainsey, with Hainsey starting poorly with his ankle injury and finishing strong. Mustipher was very inconsistent, and Kraemer seemed to regress until he showed some life with his benching. That said, I was mostly disappointed as I expected Eichenberg and Mustipher and Kraemer and Hainsey to all start off at a higher level, and of these four, only Eichenberg and Hainsey reached that level and that was towards the end of the season.

So, interested in people’s view of the OL play, and perspectives on whether Quinn has shown the ability to develop the kind of talent he is successfully recruiting.

I’m conflicted about Quinn and the job he is doing as OL coach. He has shown to be a really good recruiter, but of course ND annually recruits the OL positions very well. Still, he has great enthusiasm for ND and connects with young recruits, and appears very well liked by his players, and he’s bringing in outstanding classes of talent. As to whether he is doing a good job developing the talent is up for discussion. Losing two starters to the first round of the NFL and then losing your best lineman in Barr are major challenges, but the question is how well did our OL develop and show improvement. In my view, We had three players show significant improvement during the season: Eichenberg and Banks and Hainsey, with Hainsey starting poorly with his ankle injury and finishing strong. Mustipher was very inconsistent, and Kraemer seemed to regress until he showed some life with his benching. That said, I was mostly disappointed as I expected Eichenberg and Mustipher and Kraemer and Hainsey to all start off at a higher level, and of these four, only Eichenberg and Hainsey reached that level and that was towards the end of the season.

So, interested in people’s view of the OL play, and perspectives on whether Quinn has shown the ability to develop the kind of talent he is successfully recruiting.

I was against his hiring as oline coach and it's always difficult to replace someone like Coach H. That being said, I think he's an average coach. The most frustrating thing to me was the inconsistency of the line play.
I'm far from an expert but it looked like the players didn't have the best technique either.
Recruiting wise he has landed an above average class. I believe they lost out on the true studs though.
The players do seem to like him, as does Coach K. They have worked together for years. Hopefully Echo will weigh in

 

[Bumpdaddy]

I’m conflicted about Quinn and the job he is doing as OL coach. He has shown to be a really good recruiter, but of course ND annually recruits the OL positions very well. Still, he has great enthusiasm for ND and connects with young recruits, and appears very well liked by his players, and he’s bringing in outstanding classes of talent. As to whether he is doing a good job developing the talent is up for discussion. Losing two starters to the first round of the NFL and then losing your best lineman in Barr are major challenges, but the question is how well did our OL develop and show improvement. In my view, We had three players show significant improvement during the season: Eichenberg and Banks and Hainsey, with Hainsey starting poorly with his ankle injury and finishing strong. Mustipher was very inconsistent, and Kraemer seemed to regress until he showed some life with his benching. That said, I was mostly disappointed as I expected Eichenberg and Mustipher and Kraemer and Hainsey to all start off at a higher level, and of these four, only Eichenberg and Hainsey reached that level and that was towards the end of the season.

So, interested in people’s view of the OL play, and perspectives on whether Quinn has shown the ability to develop the kind of talent he is successfully recruiting.

It's a great topic to bring up because I think a lot of posters have had strong opinions on the subject when I think, ultimately, the fairest answer to your question is the jury is still out. I think a lot of posters forget Harry had some off years with his OL's as well to the point where some were calling him the most overrated coach on the staff. Those off years mostly coincided with years when the OL was replacing multiple starters. Back then people were disappointed because, even though everyone understood there would likely be a slight drop-off from the year before, they believed our OL depth was solid enough that we shouldn't have seen the OL struggle as much as it did. Think back to 2014 and 2016 when Golson and Kizer were respectively asked to carry their offenses while the OL underperformed in run blocking and pass protection. It wasn't pretty, but then in the following years we saw significant improvement in both areas as the OL was much more experienced and cohesive.

This year I saw what you saw, Telx1. I saw the OL struggle mightily early in the season but then showed a lot of improvement as the 3 players you cited - Liam, Banks, and Hainsey - got better each successive game even if some inconsistency was mixed in with that improvement. I'm interested to see what this unit can do next season after only losing Mustipher and having a year+ to play together.

I'm not saying I have complete confidence in Quinn but I do think it's way too early to declare him a bust as others have stated. Next year everything will be in his favor and we should know whether or not he's capable of developing an elite OL.

 

[ftnfan62]

Y1, losing 3 starters that were all everything for 3-4 years (Bars to inj.). So he was basically asked to take a new line with really no experience so I'm not sure I can judge him fairly. We are judging Lee as an A, reality is the defense was stacked. My take was we didn't dominate in the run game when we needed to. Our pass blocking with the exception of Clemson was pretty darn good. So for a new line, playing a pretty tough schedule and watching Clemson beat up on a very experienced bama line, seemed to be OK. I would certainly not say our line was our strength this year, so from that standpoint it was a C+, B- line to me. I'd say lets see what he does next year with some experience and weight room work.

 

[napy2121]

I think people were too hard on him due to the factors OP highlighted. I can’t add much else but I do think he’s a notch below as a fundamentals coach from HH. Similar recruiters. Overall solid coach.

 

[ftnfan62]

Isn’t Andy heck a line coach in the NFL? Be good to go get some old Moore guys some day that played at ND. If Quinn doesn’t cut it.

 

[d1042]

“Y1, losing 3 starters that were all everything for 3-4 years (Bars to inj.”

^ that

 

[88ND]

Losing Q and Mcglinchey is massive regression.

Perception of that makes thing seem worse than they are.

Hainsey and Mustipher were two of the bright spots.

The biggest issue I seen was too many missed assignments. Whatever the reason it's wrong.

 

[echowaker]

I was against his hiring as oline coach and it's always difficult to replace someone like Coach H. That being said, I think he's an average coach. The most frustrating thing to me was the inconsistency of the line play.
I'm far from an expert but it looked like the players didn't have the best technique either.
Recruiting wise he has landed an above average class. I believe they lost out on the true studs though.
The players do seem to like him, as does Coach K. They have worked together for years. Hopefully Echo will weigh in

First and foremost quality o-line play is way more dependent on the unit functioning as one as opposed to individual talent levels. give me 5 average guys who work well together over 5 elite level guys who don't. That said i think Quinn did a pretty good job given the hand he was dealt. Remember that not only did the 2017 line possess 2 top ten draft picks it was also loaded with experience sans kraemer/ hainsey but also went through the entire season pretty much injury free. compare that with this past season and its night and day. I thought Eicheberg got incrementally better as the season progressed. Mustipher was inconsistent but i believe that was a direct result of the constant changes at both guard positions most of the year. He'll be playing on Sundays. Banks showed promise. Hainsey while I believe would be an ideal center should only move if one of the young tackles show they're ready. Kraemer is an enigma to me. i've watched him since he was a freshman in high school. Looked way too heavy to me last season. didn't move nearly as well as he has in the past. Funny thing is CBssports has him as one of the top returning college players next year. Quinn is fine as a teacher. those folks who cite technique as an issue please elaborate ? Continuity among the first five was the biggest issue this past year in my opinion.

 

[napy2121]

I probably should have qualified my claim on fundamentals better because they taught Oline much different when I played ball 20 years ago- regardless I still see too much standing straight up and could see better/more consistent hand placement. Especially from the C position which is why I think we saw some inconsistency there. It comes accross overly harsh and I’m no expert. Even with that our C probably graded out very well overall, and will play on Sunday.

 

[echowaker]

I probably should have qualified my claim on fundamentals better because they taught Oline much different when I played ball 20 years ago- regardless I still see too much standing straight up and could see better/more consistent hand placement. Especially from the C position which is why I think we saw some inconsistency there. It comes accross overly harsh and I’m no expert. Even with that our C probably graded out very well overall, and will play on Sunday.

i hear ya. i just doubt that quinn was teaching fundamentals any different than harry was. fundamentals only improve through hard work. now harry was probably a better teacher as he's one of the best ever.

 

[napy2121]

Fair points.

 

[SIhoosier26]

I’m conflicted about Quinn and the job he is doing as OL coach. He has shown to be a really good recruiter, but of course ND annually recruits the OL positions very well. Still, he has great enthusiasm for ND and connects with young recruits, and appears very well liked by his players, and he’s bringing in outstanding classes of talent. As to whether he is doing a good job developing the talent is up for discussion. Losing two starters to the first round of the NFL and then losing your best lineman in Barr are major challenges, but the question is how well did our OL develop and show improvement. In my view, We had three players show significant improvement during the season: Eichenberg and Banks and Hainsey, with Hainsey starting poorly with his ankle injury and finishing strong. Mustipher was very inconsistent, and Kraemer seemed to regress until he showed some life with his benching. That said, I was mostly disappointed as I expected Eichenberg and Mustipher and Kraemer and Hainsey to all start off at a higher level, and of these four, only Eichenberg and Hainsey reached that level and that was towards the end of the season.

So, interested in people’s view of the OL play, and perspectives on whether Quinn has shown the ability to develop the kind of talent he is successfully recruiting.

No, they didn't.

 

[echowaker]

No, they didn't.

sure they did. given the injuries and loss of personnel they did fine. not great but anyone who expected them to be great was fooling themselves.

 

[Java65]

IMO, ND needs to replace both Quinn and Alexander. WR development and recruiting has been disappointing. I don't think we have seen nearly enough development from the OL especially considering the talent that's been recruited.

 

[jcswoopnh]

IMO, ND needs to replace both Quinn and Alexander. WR development and recruiting has been disappointing. I don't think we have seen nearly enough development from the OL especially considering the talent that's been recruited.

Eventhough I didn't like the the hire, I'd give Quinn more time. I think he's more than just an online coach to Kelly.
Alexander I agree with you

 

[Telx1]

i hear ya. i just doubt that quinn was teaching fundamentals any different than harry was. fundamentals only improve through hard work. now harry was probably a better teacher as he's one of the best ever.

Not at all knowledgeable of the technical aspects of playing OL, but have read many comments to the effect that our players tended to stop moving their feet after the initial hit which hurt their ability to sustain the block and hurt their ability to maintain good pad level. And these were comments aimed at criticizing Quinn’s attention to detail, etc... Appreciate your input as someone who played the position at this level.

 

[Telx1]

Eventhough I didn't like the the hire, I'd give Quinn more time. I think he's more than just an online coach to Kelly.
Alexander I agree with you

I think WR recruiting has been excellent, a position of strength. The question is why these guys haven’t seen the field nearly enough. Do Kelly and Long put too much emphasis on experience, or has Alexander failed in preparing these guys? I suspect the former.

 

[echowaker]

IMO, ND needs to replace both Quinn and Alexander. WR development and recruiting has been disappointing. I don't think we have seen nearly enough development from the OL especially considering the talent that's been recruited.

the guy has had the job for one season. what were you expecting ? i think eichenberg is developing quite nicely and banks looks to have a bright future .

 

[Java65]

the guy has had the job for one season. what were you expecting ? i think eichenberg is developing quite nicely and banks looks to have a bright future .

I expect (especially younger players) to show significant improvement from game 1 to game 13 and that just didn't happen. Eichenberg showed very little improvement.

Quinn is a great recruiter but a very average coach.

 

[echowaker]

I expect (especially younger players) to show significant improvement from game 1 to game 13 and that just didn't happen. Eichenberg showed very little improvement.

Quinn is a great recruiter but a very average coach.

You obviously have little background in o line play to state Eichenberg showed little improvement. thats absurd.

 

[jcswoopnh]

I think WR recruiting has been excellent, a position of strength. The question is why these guys haven’t seen the field nearly enough. Do Kelly and Long put too much emphasis on experience, or has Alexander failed in preparing these guys? I suspect the former.

I think wr recruiting has been above average but far far from elite. The game changers on offense have been tough to land so development is crucial. The question about the young receivers not seeing the field is legit. Are they not developing or are they being held back? I haven't noticed any huge improvement with the exception being Finke. Chasepool has been a stud on s.t.

 

[echowaker]

I think wr recruiting has been above average but far far from elite. The game changers on offense have been tough to land so development is crucial. The question about the young receivers not seeing the field is legit. Are they not developing or are they being held back? I haven't noticed any huge improvement with the exception being Finke. Chasepool has been a stud on s.t.

i thought Boykin had a very good year.

 

[Patriot82]

Too many false starts and too many missed assignments this past year. We have to realize these were mostly new guys and playing against some pretty stiff competition.

 

[Telx1]

I think wr recruiting has been above average but far far from elite. The game changers on offense have been tough to land so development is crucial. The question about the young receivers not seeing the field is legit. Are they not developing or are they being held back? I haven't noticed any huge improvement with the exception being Finke. Chasepool has been a stud on s.t.

We see our young wide receivers through different lenses, and that’s ok. I see tremendous talent sitting on the bench: Young and Austin and Lenzy and Keys and Tremble, specifically. We won’t really know if any of these guys are elite until they are given the opportunity to show what they can do on game days, and thus far, these opportunities have been few and far between.

 

[jcswoopnh]

We see our young wide receivers through different lenses, and that’s ok. I see tremendous talent sitting on the bench: Young and Austin and Lenzy and Keys and Tremble, specifically. We won’t really know if any of these guys are elite until they are given the opportunity to show what they can do on game days, and thus far, these opportunities have been few and far between.

I think they're very talented and have very good potential. I hope they're getting the coaching they deserve. I wish they got the chance to see the field. I don't think they are going to be Clemson or Bama good. Hope I'm wrong

 

[jcswoopnh]

i thought Boykin had a very good year.

Agreed

 

[theskibro]

Agreed

TelX

Excellent topic for discussion. I think u r money about linemen not moving feet. Footwork is the number 1 unspoken, unseen major factor that impacts success in many sports.

In tennis, players move their feet so quickly and smoothly the viewer never noticed it, but it’s crucial to get in position to hit winners. Big O linemen are viewed as lumbering behemoths when the reality is that with the bull rushers and finesse rushers they now face of with —. Quick feet are essential. There is a lot to master to become a Q Nelson or Z Martin

I believe it can be taught but like any great athlete, there are some who are blessed with big time talent

I feel the o line can be made elite thru good coaching even if the players are not elite. They will be exposed at the pro level but collegiately they can thrive. Quinn is not the guy to build elite linemen imo. But I will say this—. The ND lines under Weis were the worst I’ve seen in a long time
The lines under Kelly are a huge improvement - especially under Harry. Under Quinn, so so. Adequate

 

[echowaker]

TelX

Excellent topic for discussion. I think u r money about linemen not moving feet. Footwork is the number 1 unspoken, unseen major factor that impacts success in many sports.

In tennis, players move their feet so quickly and smoothly the viewer never noticed it, but it’s crucial to get in position to hit winners. Big O linemen are viewed as lumbering behemoths when the reality is that with the bull rushers and finesse rushers they now face of with —. Quick feet are essential. There is a lot to master to become a Q Nelson or Z Martin

I believe it can be taught but like any great athlete, there are some who are blessed with big time talent

I feel the o line can be made elite thru good coaching even if the players are not elite. They will be exposed at the pro level but collegiately they can thrive. Quinn is not the guy to build elite linemen imo. But I will say this—. The ND lines under Weis were the worst I’ve seen in a long time
The lines under Kelly are a huge improvement - especially under Harry. Under Quinn, so so. Adequate

i don't think its fair to judge quinn after just one season considering the hand he was dealt.

 

[Telx1]

TelX

Excellent topic for discussion. I think u r money about linemen not moving feet. Footwork is the number 1 unspoken, unseen major factor that impacts success in many sports.

In tennis, players move their feet so quickly and smoothly the viewer never noticed it, but it’s crucial to get in position to hit winners. Big O linemen are viewed as lumbering behemoths when the reality is that with the bull rushers and finesse rushers they now face of with —. Quick feet are essential. There is a lot to master to become a Q Nelson or Z Martin

I believe it can be taught but like any great athlete, there are some who are blessed with big time talent

I feel the o line can be made elite thru good coaching even if the players are not elite. They will be exposed at the pro level but collegiately they can thrive. Quinn is not the guy to build elite linemen imo. But I will say this—. The ND lines under Weis were the worst I’ve seen in a long time
The lines under Kelly are a huge improvement - especially under Harry. Under Quinn, so so. Adequate

Ski...I hope you are wrong about Quinn, but I suspect not. This year should answer a lot of these questions. The optimist in me recalls what bumpdaddy references above, and that Harry got a ton of criticism after a couple weak years, and everyone was bemoaning the loss of our prior OL coach to Ohio St. Hoping we have a similar end result with Quinn. The left side is set, and Hainsey will absolutely start. While I tend to want him moved to center, and I tend to want the younger studs inserted on the right side, I think Echo’s point about communication and comfort with those next to you is critical, and we can’t afford another season where Quinn is indecisive and experiments. Spring ball is going to be more interesting than usual with these questions about the OL, our linebackers, who replaces Love, who emerges as lead and two deep running backs, whether Phil challenges Book for starter, and whether some of our your receivers emerge as game breakers. Your comments about feet movement and positioning make perfect sense, and it seems to me that this is one of those constant attention to details, and non stop stressing fundamentals all season long that we see from coaches like Harry. No reason in my mind that Quinn can’t elevate his coaching technique and style, if Kelly sees this as an issue.

 

[jcswoopnh]

Ski...I hope you are wrong about Quinn, but I suspect not. This year should answer a lot of these questions. The optimist in me recalls what bumpdaddy references above, and that Harry got a ton of criticism after a couple weak years, and everyone was bemoaning the loss of our prior OL coach to Ohio St. Hoping we have a similar end result with Quinn. The left side is set, and Hainsey will absolutely start. While I tend to want him moved to center, and I tend to want the younger studs inserted on the right side, I think Echo’s point about communication and comfort with those next to you is critical, and we can’t afford another season where Quinn is indecisive and experiments. Spring ball is going to be more interesting than usual with these questions about the OL, our linebackers, who replaces Love, who emerges as lead and two deep running backs, whether Phil challenges Book for starter, and whether some of our your receivers emerge as game breakers. Your comments about feet movement and positioning make perfect sense, and it seems to me that this is one of those constant attention to details, and non stop stressing fundamentals all season long that we see from coaches like Harry. No reason in my mind that Quinn can’t elevate his coaching technique and style, if Kelly sees this as an issue.

Tex, No doubt it's going to be an interesting spring and summer! Lots of positions are up for grabs. I wish the younger players for some more playing time. Thank God the talent has been significantly upgraded the last few years. Any predictions on break out players?

 

[Java65]

You obviously have little background in o line play to state Eichenberg showed little improvement. thats absurd.

Then you must have thought he completely sucked at the beginning of the year because while he was ok by the end of the season he certainly anything special.

 

[Telx1]

Tex, No doubt it's going to be an interesting spring and summer! Lots of positions are up for grabs. I wish the younger players for some more playing time. Thank God the talent has been significantly upgraded the last few years. Any predictions on break out players?

Last time I predicted breakout players I was convinced Claypool was the one, and that was two seasons ago. So, not very good at predictions. But, I think Claypool will thrive in Boykin’s spot as a primary receiver, and I think this is the year he finally has his head on right. I fully expect Austin to break out and prove to be a game changer with both after catch runs and stretching the field. Griffith had a terrible freshman year imo, but I won’t be surprised to see him at safety a lot and Alohi playing the nickel. I think Simon will be dominant in his first year starting, just not clear at which linebacker position. Lots of candidates since we have so many positions that aren’t returning last Year’s starters. Your thoughts?

 

[jcswoopnh]

Last time I predicted breakout players I was convinced Claypool was the one, and that was two seasons ago. So, not very good at predictions. But, I think Claypool will thrive in Boykin’s spot as a primary receiver, and I think this is the year he finally has his head on right. I fully expect Austin to break out and prove to be a game changer with both after catch runs and stretching the field. Griffith had a terrible freshman year imo, but I won’t be surprised to see him at safety a lot and Alohi playing the nickel. I think Simon will be dominant in his first year starting, just not clear at which linebacker position. Lots of candidates since we have so many positions that aren’t returning last Year’s starters. Your thoughts?

My track record on predictions is nothing to brag about, but I'm on board with Simon and Austin. I still have high hopes for Derrik Allen. I'm hoping either Lamb or Bauer will step up this year. I really wish the younger players were able to play some meaningful minutes last season. It's going to be fun to see how it plays out!

 

[Pennick4]

Then you must have thought he completely sucked at the beginning of the year because while he was ok by the end of the season he certainly anything special.

Tell us about your line play knowledge. I thought the kid played pretty well in his first year at the blind side tackle.

 

[chitown sot]

Tell us about your line play knowledge. I thought the kid played pretty well in his first year at the blind side tackle.

First of all your opinion means nothing. You couldn't judge talent if it bit you in the a$$. You obviously no nothing about defense(bvg is going to be great, lol). I doubt you know anything about OL play either.

 

[Pennick4]

First of all your opinion means nothing. You couldn't judge talent if it bit you in the a$$. You obviously no nothing about defense(bvg is going to be great, lol). I doubt you know anything about OL play either.

Stop blaming BK cause you can't get a date.
Brohm....lol

 

[echowaker]

Then you must have thought he completely sucked at the beginning of the year because while he was ok by the end of the season he certainly anything special.

Not sure who you were watching. You're way,way off.

 

[SIhoosier26]

sure they did. given the injuries and loss of personnel they did fine. not great but anyone who expected them to be great was fooling themselves.

They lost a lot that's true, but it isn't like Notre Dame doesn't have highly recruited/talented players. They were bad even in the the last game of the season. I'm not saying he should be fired at this point, just that he has a lot to prove and he didn't prove much this year. I wasn't that surprised though, Heistand is a big loss any way you slice it.

 

[BodiTheGreat]

I’m conflicted about Quinn and the job he is doing as OL coach. He has shown to be a really good recruiter, but of course ND annually recruits the OL positions very well. Still, he has great enthusiasm for ND and connects with young recruits, and appears very well liked by his players, and he’s bringing in outstanding classes of talent. As to whether he is doing a good job developing the talent is up for discussion. Losing two starters to the first round of the NFL and then losing your best lineman in Barr are major challenges, but the question is how well did our OL develop and show improvement. In my view, We had three players show significant improvement during the season: Eichenberg and Banks and Hainsey, with Hainsey starting poorly with his ankle injury and finishing strong. Mustipher was very inconsistent, and Kraemer seemed to regress until he showed some life with his benching. That said, I was mostly disappointed as I expected Eichenberg and Mustipher and Kraemer and Hainsey to all start off at a higher level, and of these four, only Eichenberg and Hainsey reached that level and that was towards the end of the season.

So, interested in people’s view of the OL play, and perspectives on whether Quinn has shown the ability to develop the kind of talent he is successfully recruiting.

The Irish will have a dominant Oline in 19. Experience for Olineman is very important. The Irish will go 12 and 0 in 2019 and beat Georgia with the Oline leading the way !