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Coaching and Development Matters

NDinNJ

Posts Like A Champion
Nov 23, 2018
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Most on here focus so much on recruiting, they forget that coaching and development is just as important if not more important.

TCU is the perfect example of this. Look at their classes the last 6 years.

2017: 28th 23 commits, 4- 4 star, 16-3 star
2018: 25th 25 commits, 5-4 star, 20-3 star
2019: 32nd 27 commits, 4-4 star, 23-3 star
2020: 23rd 21 commits, 1-5 star, 6-4 star, 13-3 star
2021: 54th 15 commits, 3-4 star, 11-3 star
2022: 45th 14 commits, 4-4 star, 10-3 star

Transfer portal: last 2 years
2022: 13th 14 transfers, 2-4 star, 12-3 star
2023: 22nd 4 transfers, 2-4 star, 2-3 star

Some will say, but they had Max Duggan. Sure, but he was still developed, he wasn't a top 100 or even a Top 200 recruit.

Recruiting is important, but development and coaching are equally important.
 
Easy on him. He clearly has the mental capacity of a 4 year old. He doesn't understand.
I don’t understand losing … you two can fill me in on how people become losers? Or teams or organizations?
 
You're a loser at life. You live it. What are you talking about
You think we had a good year, you think losing top recruits isn’t a big deal; you think not retaining top players or winning in the portal is no big deal … we got some good recruits but not fixing holes
 
You think we had a good year, you think losing top recruits isn’t a big deal; you think not retaining top players or winning in the portal is no big deal … we got some good recruits but not fixing holes
We had a good year considering what was left in the qb and wr room by BK and Del, yes. We went 9 and 4 with a backup qb and against our toughest schedule since 17. What was our record in 17, 10 and 3. Not a bad year at all

What top players didnt we retain, Joesph? Thats the only guy. So 1 guy left and thats bad during this time in cfb. Wake the f up. Players are going to the league and tranferring like crazy. To keep what we have so far is excellent.

Best recruiting class since 2013. Next

Holes

Qb Landed a top guy in Minchey. Going to land a solid vet in Hartman as a backup or starter

Wr landed four 4 star guys in recruiting and landed a transfer so far

Vyper hole

Cb landed 2 studs in recruiting

Safety landed 3 guys in recruiting to fill out depth chart. Hope Hillman is the stud. Tbd here

You're full of shit making it seem like we had a crap recruiting class and have theae huge holes on the roster

BS
 
We had a good year considering what was left in the qb and wr room by BK and Del, yes. We went 9 and 4 with a backup qb and against our toughest schedule since 17. What was our record in 17, 10 and 3. Not a bad year at all

What top players didnt we retain, Joesph? Thats the only guy. So 1 guy left and thats bad during this time in cfb. Wake the f up. Players are going to the league and tranferring like crazy. To keep what we have so far is excellent.

Best recruiting class since 2013. Next

Holes

Qb Landed a top guy in Minchey. Going to land a solid vet in Hartman as a backup or starter

Wr landed four 4 star guys in recruiting and landed a transfer so far

Vyper hole

Cb landed 2 studs in recruiting

Safety landed 3 guys in recruiting to fill out depth chart. Hope Hillman is the stud. Tbd here

You're full of shit making it seem like we had a crap recruiting class and have theae huge holes on the roster

BS
If Notre Dame works out the QB situation then they'll be competing for the playoff next year.

Their o line might be best in the country and our running backs are fantastic. Defense should be much improved as well with Morrison and the improved talent at linebacker.
 
If Notre Dame works out the QB situation then they'll be competing for the playoff next year.

Their o line might be best in the country and our running backs are fantastic. Defense should be much improved as well with Morrison and the improved talent at linebacker.
Problem is we don’t have one player that would start on the dline or lbs or safeties for Georgia um or Ohio state

Our d concerns me next year other than corners
 
We had a good year considering what was left in the qb and wr room by BK and Del, yes. We went 9 and 4 with a backup qb and against our toughest schedule since 17. What was our record in 17, 10 and 3. Not a bad year at all

What top players didnt we retain, Joesph? Thats the only guy. So 1 guy left and thats bad during this time in cfb. Wake the f up. Players are going to the league and tranferring like crazy. To keep what we have so far is excellent.

Best recruiting class since 2013. Next

Holes

Qb Landed a top guy in Minchey. Going to land a solid vet in Hartman as a backup or starter

Wr landed four 4 star guys in recruiting and landed a transfer so far

Vyper hole

Cb landed 2 studs in recruiting

Safety landed 3 guys in recruiting to fill out depth chart. Hope Hillman is the stud. Tbd here

You're full of shit making it seem like we had a crap recruiting class and have theae huge holes on the roster

BS
LOL the same Freeman "Fan Boys" crying about going 11-1 or losing in the CFP, are justifying an 8-4 regular season? What happened to your lofty Natty or bust standards? Marcus gets graded on a curve Year 1. It is Tommy Rees fault; it is Al Golden fault. it is the 11-1 & Pre-Season #5 roster that got left behind. A roster so talented it can whip Clemson, with a backup QB?

2022 featured 2 losses to 2 unranked teams. Something that had NOT happened around the program in 7 years.

But that's okay right? Why? Because the 8-4 guy recruits more 4-star players? Then the biggest chode of them all, writes a thread about how player development, is just as important as the star ratings, being touted as the reason to justify a 8-4 season. "Look at TCU". Nothing like dumping all over your own argument. That is pure genius

ND starts next year with 3 glorified controlled scrimmages. No coach in ND history has ever opened with an easier stretch of games. Let's hope ND can avoid the "not ready to play" episodes again this year.
 
LOL the same Freeman "Fan Boys" crying about going 11-1 or losing in the CFP, are justifying an 8-4 regular season? What happened to your lofty Natty or bust standards? Marcus gets graded on a curve Year 1. It is Tommy Rees fault; it is Al Golden fault. it is the 11-1 & Pre-Season #5 roster that got left behind. A roster so talented it can whip Clemson, with a backup QB?

2022 featured 2 losses to 2 unranked teams. Something that had NOT happened around the program in 7 years.

But that's okay right? Why? Because the 8-4 guy recruits more 4-star players? Then the biggest chode of them all, writes a thread about how player development, is just as important as the star ratings, being touted as the reason to justify a 8-4 season. "Look at TCU". Nothing like dumping all over your own argument. That is pure genius

ND starts next year with 3 glorified controlled scrimmages. No coach in ND history has ever opened with an easier stretch of games. Let's hope ND can avoid the "not ready to play" episodes again this year.
Remind me, did Kelly win a Title in his 12 years at ND?
 
LOL the same Freeman "Fan Boys" crying about going 11-1 or losing in the CFP, are justifying an 8-4 regular season? What happened to your lofty Natty or bust standards? Marcus gets graded on a curve Year 1. It is Tommy Rees fault; it is Al Golden fault. it is the 11-1 & Pre-Season #5 roster that got left behind. A roster so talented it can whip Clemson, with a backup QB?

2022 featured 2 losses to 2 unranked teams. Something that had NOT happened around the program in 7 years.

But that's okay right? Why? Because the 8-4 guy recruits more 4-star players? Then the biggest chode of them all, writes a thread about how player development, is just as important as the star ratings, being touted as the reason to justify a 8-4 season. "Look at TCU". Nothing like dumping all over your own argument. That is pure genius

ND starts next year with 3 glorified controlled scrimmages. No coach in ND history has ever opened with an easier stretch of games. Let's hope ND can avoid the "not ready to play" episodes again this year.
This might be one of the worst posts ever on this board.
 
Remind me, did Kelly win a Title in his 12 years at ND?
How about Devore ?

Oh, I forgot, he’s no longer coaching ND.

Freeman inherited a winning program that won over 50 games in the last five seasons.

While we wish him the ultimate success you can’t deny his disappointing performance and record in 2022, unless you’re a deaf, dumb and blind apologist.

Losing to Marshall and Stanford was inexcusable !

Let’s hope that the team and the coaching improves significantly in 2023 and beyond !

P.S. For those morons who aren’t aware of it, Kelly is no longer the coach at ND !
 
How about Devore ?

Oh, I forgot, he’s no longer coaching ND.

Freeman inherited a winning program that won over 50 games in the last five seasons.

While we wish him the ultimate success you can’t deny his disappointing performance and record in 2022, unless you’re a deaf, dumb and blind apologist.

Losing to Marshall and Stanford was inexcusable !

Let’s hope that the team and the coaching improves significantly in 2023 and beyond !

P.S. For those morons who aren’t aware of it, Kelly is no longer the coach at ND !
Losing to Tulsa, Navy twice, USF, and going 4-8 in year 7 are all inexcusable.
 
Most on here focus so much on recruiting, they forget that coaching and development is just as important if not more important.

TCU is the perfect example of this. Look at their classes the last 6 years.

2017: 28th 23 commits, 4- 4 star, 16-3 star
2018: 25th 25 commits, 5-4 star, 20-3 star
2019: 32nd 27 commits, 4-4 star, 23-3 star
2020: 23rd 21 commits, 1-5 star, 6-4 star, 13-3 star
2021: 54th 15 commits, 3-4 star, 11-3 star
2022: 45th 14 commits, 4-4 star, 10-3 star

Transfer portal: last 2 years
2022: 13th 14 transfers, 2-4 star, 12-3 star
2023: 22nd 4 transfers, 2-4 star, 2-3 star

Some will say, but they had Max Duggan. Sure, but he was still developed, he wasn't a top 100 or even a Top 200 recruit.

Recruiting is important, but development and coaching are equally important.
Water is wet.
 
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Losing to Tulsa, Navy twice, USF, and going 4-8 in year 7 are all inexcusable.
True, but that was over 12 years, not twice in one season, and Kelly inherited a poor program, Freeman inherited a vibrant program

You forgot Northwestern.

Tulsa and Northwestern were absolutely inexcusable.

I can’t get upset over losses to Navy as I’m a fan of the service academies.

But let me remind you and everyone else ….. again, Kelly is gone, Freeman is now at the helm and Freeman and Freeman alone is now responsible for the team’s performance !
 
True, but that was over 12 years, not twice in one season, and Kelly inherited a poor program, Freeman inherited a vibrant program

You forgot Northwestern.

Tulsa and Northwestern were absolutely inexcusable.

I can’t get upset over losses to Navy as I’m a fan of the service academies.

But let me remind you and everyone else ….. again, Kelly is gone, Freeman is now at the helm and Freeman and Freeman alone is now responsible for the team’s performance !
I agree, Kelly is gone. Was 9-4 disappointing? of course it was.
Recruiting is up, let's see how it plays out with Freeman in the next 2-3 years.

Some on this board are blaming Freeman for not doing more with recruiting, or transfers. That's more an admin problem, not a coaching staff problem.

Notre Dame isn't going to drop a million or two at a recruits feet to come play for Notre Dame.

They also aren't going to just start taking undergraduate transfers by bending the academic side of it.

These are administration issues that quite frankly Freeman has navigated better than Kelly considering the talent ND has coming in with the 2023 class and how the 2024 class is looking.
It's going to come down to what the staff will do with these young men to develop them. Let's see what happens next year and year 3 before we label the Freeman hire a failure.
 
You think we had a good year, you think losing top recruits isn’t a big deal; you think not retaining top players or winning in the portal is no big deal … we got some good recruits but not fixing holes
What's this "we" shit. You clearly have no understanding of ND, or of CFB. Someone posted you were a 4 year old, I think they were being generous. Put your binky back in your mouth and STFU ... and stop the "we" shit
 
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True, but that was over 12 years, not twice in one season, and Kelly inherited a poor program, Freeman inherited a vibrant program

You forgot Northwestern.

Tulsa and Northwestern were absolutely inexcusable.

I can’t get upset over losses to Navy as I’m a fan of the service academies.

But let me remind you and everyone else ….. again, Kelly is gone, Freeman is now at the helm and Freeman and Freeman alone is now responsible for the team’s performance !
Really...he went 4 and 8 on year 7

That whole season was an embarassment and disaster

How quickly people forget
 
Really...he went 4 and 8 on year 7

That whole season was an embarassment and disaster

How quickly people forget
He’s the winningest coach in ND history and in case you didn’t know it, he’s gone !

Are you his spurned lover ?

Get over it, he’s gone !
 
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He’s the winningest coach in ND history and in case you didn’t know it, he’s gone !

Are you his spurned lover ?

Get over it, he’s gone !
Im happy we have MF

But I'm not going to ignore people putting down a coach that went 9 and 4 and act like BK won 10 games every year

He had plenty of humiliating moments, games and seasons
 
Im happy we have MF

But I'm not going to ignore people putting down a coach that went 9 and 4 and act like BK won 10 games every year

He had plenty of humiliating moments, games and seasons
We know you’re happy with Freeman, all of us want him to succeed now that he’s the HC.

Here’s news for you, Kelly is gone, so is Davie, Weis and Willingham !

Get over it !
 
We know you’re happy with Freeman, all of us want him to succeed now that he’s the HC.

Here’s news for you, Kelly is gone, so is Davie, Weis and Willingham !

Get over it !
I never talk about them. Didn't make sense
 
seems like coaches have abandoned defense as indefensible so they are just focused upon outscoring the opposition! 50-40 games are not reminiscent of defensive struggles, but they have become the norm.
 
Freeman must take the blame for losses against Marshall and Stanford. I agree it's inexcusable.

But as a whole body of work across a season he fine given the circumstances. And a year 1 coach always gets some runway. Which in this case is enough when you have an overall 9-4 record.

It's fun to compare against past coaches. But for me, it's obvious that the here and now matter most. Meaning can Freeman stabilize the QB situation, recruit amid a massively changed landscape, develop Tommy Rees, make the OL consistent, and improve the defense?

Freeman is the coach and must assume primary responsibility for all these issues. He weathered this season. I've every reason to at least be hopeful for a solid next season.

My main concern: can ND recruit enough elite talent in depth. I'd be a liar if I said he can. No ND coach since Holtz has managed to do this...so odds are ND won't do what it must to change this for any coach.

I hope I'm wrong on this last point, but in the end I go by the fact I've not seen a dominant ND team with depth at even skill positions since Holtz.
 
Pretty simple in my opinion. Freeman is recruiting at a higher level then Kelly did. His coaching staff is better then Kellys. Look at the corner development this year. Having such a thin receivers corps really hurt. They bolstered that room with the Va. Tech commit. The Quarterback room has been upgraded. Holding Freeman accountable isn't fair. He played the hand he was dealt.
 
Problem is we don’t have one player that would start on the dline or lbs or safeties for Georgia um or Ohio state

Our d concerns me next year other than corners
Is that true?
 
Coaching and Development is why teams like Wisconsin and others who barely sniff a top 20 recruiting class are still competitive.

Iowa on the O line has made a true science out of taking 3 stars and under and developing them to a point where they go to the NFL where many 4-5 stars flame out.

Much has been made of the lack at QB; Book was an excellent college QB but we were unable to replace him with as good or better. That has been the glaring problem (that and WRs)
 
In addition to never winning anything of relevance, Kelly also was at his worst under the brightest lights, lost more games than any coach in ND history, vacated a season and a half of wins and oversaw more off the field embarrassments than any of his predecessors … but he did have a good run against unranked teams, so there’s that.
 
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We know you’re happy with Freeman, all of us want him to succeed now that he’s the HC.

Here’s news for you, Kelly is gone, so is Davie, Weis and Willingham !

Get over it !
I miss Weis' offenses.
 
I miss Weis' offenses.
I miss his play calling… he truly had defenses guessing

But not a good HC

He left program better than when he got it, Kelly did the same, hopefully freeman does the same which means a championship
 
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