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CFP considering expanding playoffs to 12 teams

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Bumpdaddy

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The College Football Management Committee will consider expanding the playoffs to 12 teams when it meets next week in Chicago. The proposal is based on a recommendation by a subcommittee that includes Jack Swarbrick along with commissioners from 3 conferences including the SEC and Big 12. The proposal includes the following:

  • 6 highest-rated conference champions (that's includes P5 AND Group of 5 conferences) and 6 highest-ranked remaining teams will qualify.
  • 4 highest-ranked conference champions will be seeded 1-4 and receive 1st round byes.
  • Teams 5-12 will play each other in the 1st round in a seeded format on the home field of the higher-ranked team. The proposed date will be 2 weeks after conference championship games are played
  • The quarterfinals and semifinals will be played in bowl games.
  • The quarterfinal games will be played on either Jan 1 or 2. Dates for the semifinal and championship games haven't been determined.
  • The specific bowl games are also yet to be determined. The higher-ranked teams will get 1st choice in each bowl matchup.
  • The championship game will continue to be played on a neutral field.
The proposal hasn't been approved yet but it now seems very likely the playoffs will be expanded within the next few years. The earliest date seems to be the 2023 season. Ultimately, this would be great news for ND. As long as we're ranked in the top 12 we're guaranteed a spot. Sure, we will never have an opportunity to have a 1st round bye but the Conference Championship Games will be defacto playoff games anyway, so nobody will actually be getting a bye anyway. We will also never get the 1-4 seed, so that's a bummer, but so what? As long as we are highly ranked we will likely play the first round of the playoffs at home and then play in up to two bowl games after that, and end with the championship game assuming we kick ass.

For those of you who are worried this is a sweetheart deal for the P5 conferences it really isn't. Under this format, Oregon, the Pac 12 champ, would have been left out completely last year in favor of Coastal Carolina because Oregon was not among the 6 highest-ranked conference champions or the 6 highest-ranked remaining teams.

This will be great news for ND if/when this gets finalized.
 
Watered down, just a couple more games for Bama, OSU and Clemson to get through.
Not really. It makes the top bowl games much more meaningful. You won't see players from the top teams sitting out to get ready for the NFL draft. We won't have to worry about a team like Texas A&M finishing ranked ahead of us because they played a team that had several starters sit out of a bowl game while we played a meaningful game against the best team in the country.
 
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I think never being able to be ranked in the top 4 is a bigger deal than you're making it out to be. Having to play an extra game against a top caliber team is no walk in the park. The above ranked team will essentially have a bye week while ND will be battling for survival.
I find this as a way to put the pressure on ND to join a conference.
Personally, while I love college football, I believe asking teams to play up to a 17_game season , is asking too much
 
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So you don’t think this will force ND’s hand into joking the ACC for football? That was the first thing I thought when I heard ND could never be a 1-4 seed. I hope this is a good thing for ND.
 
Personally, while I love college football, I believe asking teams to play up to a 17_game season , is asking to much

I agree. 17 games is a lot of wear in tear on a body even if you are a 18 to 21 year old. And to not be paid on top.
 
Lol if Nd is 12-0 and beats one of the top 5 teams and has a hard schedule they will absolutely reward us with a 1-4 seed. They’ve already proven to rank us accordingly and will continue to do so. The committee has been very fair. This is a good format for Nd.
 
Lol if Nd is 12-0 and beats one of the top 5 teams and has a hard schedule they will absolutely reward us with a 1-4 seed. They’ve already proven to rank us accordingly and will continue to do so. The committee has been very fair. This is a good format for Nd.
Under the new rule ND will never be a 1-4 seed without winning a conference championship.
 
So you don’t think this will force ND’s hand into joking the ACC for football? That was the first thing I thought when I heard ND could never be a 1-4 seed. I hope this is a good thing for ND.
I think never being able to be ranked in the top 4 is a bigger deal than you're making it out to be. Having to play an extra game against a top caliber team is no walk in the park. The above ranked team will essentially have a bye week while ND will be battling for survival.
I find this as a way to put the pressure on ND to join a conference.
Personally, while I love college football, I believe asking teams to play up to a 17_game season , is asking to much
If it were up to me, I would give the 1st round byes to the top 4 ranked teams. I don't think conference champions should be guaranteed anything, but I know why the subcommittee decided to go with this proposal. The conferences have been complaining forever that teams that are sitting at home on conference championship day didn't earn a spot in the playoffs. I've always thought that was a BS argument but too many people, including the media, believe that. By doing it this way that argument goes out the window.

Put it another way... 4 highest-ranked conference champions will have played 13 games with the 13th game usually (but not always) against a top opponent. Now, teams 5-12 will also have to play the 13th game to make it to the next round of the playoffs. By the time the quarterfinals start, all teams will have (technically) earned their way to their spot.

That 1st round bye is not that big of a deal when you consider the 4 teams that get that bye will have played a 13th game already. Also, those teams do NOT get a chance to play a home game in the first round (or any other round) of the playoffs. ND will have that chance.

If this was not a good deal for ND Swarbrick would not have signed off on it. In my opinion, this is a fantastic deal for ND.
 
I missed that part, my bad. But I also haven’t seen that rule be reported in what I read. That would surprise me.
It’s not a “done deal” yet, but that is what they are going to vote on June 22 in Dallas. The top 4 teams will get a bye and they must be a conference champ.

I think this is too much. Too many teams getting in and IMO will make the regular season less important, not necessarily meaningless, but certainly less.
 
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Every time the CFB post-season gets too close to being merit-based, some group of social engineers (whose team generally do not merit a post-season reward) decide to tip the scales in favor of the underserving.
 
If independent ND is #1 it gets the #5 seed and an away semi-final
If a conference team is #1 but then loses its Ship game it gets the #5 seed and an away semi-final.
Why/how is this a good thing?
 
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Well I guess if that special rule goes through then ND might indeed have to or feel compelled to join a conference. Which much be frustrating, because with a 12 team field and no outright auto-bids for conference champions, they'd probably think they're sitting pretty in not having to join a league and still feel like they have mainly an even opportunity to get into the playoff, and are at no inherent disadvantage.

Because one thing ND will not be able to do, is to accept an inferior, a cut-and-dried strategically, structurally inferior position with respect to getting into the playoff, or getting a good seed in the playoff, anything involved with an advantageous footing with respect to the playoff.

But if we never have an opportunity to be a top 4 seed, and it's built into the system, we'll probably have to join a league. That's a huge disadvantage and I would assume it would be deemed completely unacceptable for a program with championship pretensions to have to voluntarily labor under.
 
It will also be weird to have 4 top 12 teams not be playing past Christmas Day. Season over. No bowl game.
 
I agree. 17 games is a lot of wear in tear on a body even if you are a 18 to 21 year old. And to not be paid on top.
Not to nitpick, but 16. Max of 15 for ND, which is what every champion has played since CFP started.
 
In theory, a 12 team playoff sounds good. I mean, teams that were on the cusp or in the conversation were shut out for one reason or another. However, everything comes at a price. If this actually happens, what will the long term effects be for the players? they still have classes to go to on top of an extended football season. What about health of the players ? I understand why there is a desire from fans and others to have more teams in a playoff system. I guess we just have to see if this happens. If it does, will college football be better or worse? Change is always inevitable. While change can be positive, it can also be negative. I am hoping for the prior.
 
This is absolutely meant to force ND into a conference. And not being eligible for a bye is crushing. The NFL record for the top two seeds that get byes is pretty staggering. You occasionally get a team like a Green Bay that’s gets hot or Tampa Bay from last season but The Bucs have the greatest QB off all time.

ND will have a much easier time qualifying for the playoff but a much more difficult time making any meaningful advancement. A fancy way of saying they watered down the regular season.
 
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Seems overly complex and silly.

use the same format as today, use the same ranking criteria. Take the top 12 teams after the conf championships are played. Top 4 get a bye.

cut the season to 11 games and a conf championship. Independent play 12.

could do too 16, first 2 rounds are at the home of the highest ranked team.
 
Not a good deal for ND. This will put more pressure on ND than ever before to join a conference.
Not good for the game of CFB. The regular season is diminished and we will have pretenders playing for national championships.
I am underwhelmed.
 
This is absolutely meant to force ND into a conference. And not being eligible for a bye is crushing. The NFL record for the top two seeds that get byes is pretty staggering. You occasionally get a team like a Green Bay that’s gets hot or Tampa Bay from last season but The Bucs have the greatest QB off all time.

ND will have a much easier time qualifying for the playoff but a much more difficult time making any meaningful advancement. A fancy way of saying they watered down the regular season.
Not so certain it impacts ND from an advancement standpoint, actually improves their chances to win 1-2 games before facing the inevitable 3TD loss to Bama or Clemson (maybe gain some momentum). The real issue is not rewarding the 4 best teams regardless of conference affiliation which as others have pointed out could force NDs hand to join.
 
Screw it! This is no longer student athletes. This is just about the $$$$$$. Just set up a college draft, pay them, the worst teams get the best draft picks. Let's make the regular season 30 games.
 
Think of it this way, ND hasn't won a major bowl game in 27 years. In the years that ND made the playoff, they were not able to compete with Bama and Clemson.

Now imagine ND goes undefeated in the future. They will be a 5 seed and beat a 12th ranked team at ND in front of a huge audience. Then they would get to play the #4 ranked team. Most years that will be the Pac 12 or Big 12 champ, meaning ND can win that game.

Basically there is still a considerable gap between ND and Clemson, OSU and Bama. And every time ND has one of their better teams, they get beaten badly by one of those teams. At least this way, ND can prove itself against more even teams, and hopefully that can start to bridge the gap.
 
Think of it this way, ND hasn't won a major bowl game in 27 years. In the years that ND made the playoff, they were not able to compete with Bama and Clemson.

Now imagine ND goes undefeated in the future. They will be a 5 seed and beat a 12th ranked team at ND in front of a huge audience. Then they would get to play the #4 ranked team. Most years that will be the Pac 12 or Big 12 champ, meaning ND can win that game.

Basically there is still a considerable gap between ND and Clemson, OSU and Bama. And every time ND has one of their better teams, they get beaten badly by one of those teams. At least this way, ND can prove itself against more even teams, and hopefully that can start to bridge the gap.

Don't follow how this proposed system would alleviate this issue.
 
Seems overly complex and silly.

use the same format as today, use the same ranking criteria. Take the top 12 teams after the conf championships are played. Top 4 get a bye.

cut the season to 11 games and a conf championship. Independent play 12.

could do too 16, first 2 rounds are at the home of the highest ranked team.
I don't like 12 personally-----would much rather have 8 or 16 with no Byes.

If we go to 16 would like higher seed to get home game in 1st Rd.
 
I don't like 12 personally-----would much rather have 8 or 16 with no Byes.

If we go to 16 would like higher seed to get home game in 1st Rd.
16 is way too much. Devaluing the greatest reg season in all of sports.

It should be 8 at most
 
I think the no bye rule may actually be a blessing in disguise. During the BCS era many of us expressed concern that ND had too long of a layoff between their last regular season game and the bowl game, while the opponent played a conference championship game shortening the layoff. The big question is WHEN would ND have to play that first round game? If it's 2 weeks after that last regular season game and then they have 2 weeks to play the next playoff game, then that might be a good thing helping ND sustain the momentum, but not get beat up. We've seen plenty of times in the NFL that the wild card team beats the "better and well-rested" team. And if ND is a 5 or 6 seed, it's not like they'll be playing Bama or Clemson. They could very well be playing Cincy, Boise State or some small school that squeaked into the top 12. If this proposal goes through, then I challenge ND to take on the attitude of "We don't give a F**K" and we'll play anytime, anywhere!"
 
I think the no bye rule may actually be a blessing in disguise. During the BCS era many of us expressed concern that ND had too long of a layoff between their last regular season game and the bowl game, while the opponent played a conference championship game shortening the layoff.
I don't ever think it is a blessing to have to play an extra game in the playoffs.
 
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I hate it. It makes the regular season and the playoffs less special. From a monetary standpoint, there's probably an argument to be had, but from a practical standpoint, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. There's already a lack of competition with the top four teams, so the solution is to add eight even lesser teams? I guess this is our "let's be more "fair" and inclusive" society. Yawn.
 
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Lol if Nd is 12-0 and beats one of the top 5 teams and has a hard schedule they will absolutely reward us with a 1-4 seed. They’ve already proven to rank us accordingly and will continue to do so. The committee has been very fair. This is a good format for Nd.
I am not 100% sure, but I do not believe that is how it would work - meaning it won't matter what our record is, there would be zero chance of us getting a 1-4 seed unless part of a conference.
 
I get some of the disappointment expressed by some of you, but still, I disagree with most of the complaints. Overall, I think this helps ND's chances to make the playoffs and stay independent much more than it hurts. I also think this is a net positive for college football overall. Would it have been much better if they had expanded to 8 teams with no byes or CCG guarantees? Absolutely. There are at least a few other alternative playoff proposals that would have been much better than the one they came up with, but it's clear two things were driving this subcommittee's recommendation more than anything else:
  • The conferences (mainly P5 conferences) were never going to budge on requiring that a certain number of spots will be guaranteed to some conference champions if the playoffs are going to be expanded in any way.
  • The G5 conferences had to be included to avoid any more talk of them creating their own playoff system
So if we accept that there was no way to get around those hurdles, I think Swarbrick and the rest of the subcommittee came up with the best realistic way to expand the playoffs that wouldn't have totally screwed ND. Obviously, I don't expect to convince everyone, but here are some points that I think will address some concerns some of you have as well as rebuttals to some of the arguments being made.

But in order to buy what I'm selling here, you really have to change the way you're looking at things starting with this premise:
  • There really won't be a 1st round bye for any teams. There will be de facto two parts to round 1, with the "1a" first-round games being the CCGs and the "1b" first-round games taking place two weeks later with seeds #5-12 playing each other. At the end of it all, everyone will have played roughly the same number of games with the exception of the two guaranteed-spot CCG winners (but not guaranteed seeds) and 1 or more CCG losers who will have played 1 more game each. Just think of that - 2 of the CCG game winners will still have to play another game to stay in the playoffs and they won't necessarily get favorable seeding.
If you can't accept that framing as a legitimate way to look at the new proposal then you probably won't' be happy with the rest of what I have to say but here it goes anyway.

The next point to make is this:
  • There is nothing special about getting a 1st round bye (which really isn't a 1st round bye anyway).
In effect, seeds 1-4 get the following:
  • No chance for a home playoff game
  • They get their pick of bowl games... but so what? No one will actually have a home-field advantage. Tickets will be divided equally. The teams that have the best traveling fan bases will have an advantage and that would include ND.
That's basically it.

As for some of the other rebuttals...
  • ND is MUCH less likely to join a conference with this format. If we weren't joining a conference for opportunities to play in CCGs and, therefore, get greater (perceived) access to a smaller playoff system, we certainly aren't going to do it just to have an opportunity for a (perceived) bye, especially when playoff expansion means our path to the playoffs is much easier and we have an opportunity for one more high profile, money-generating home game.
  • Rankings are going to be as important as they've ever been if not moreso, which means the regular season will NOT be diminished. There has been no talk about the CFP committee changing the way they rank teams so strength of schedule, resume, and style points will mean as much as they've always been. Early games will still matter.
  • This helps the college football postseason overall. Here's why
    • Many more teams will be in the playoff hunt near the end of the season which means many more meaningful games
    • Fewer, if any, players will be sitting out of the playoff bowl games to get ready for the NFL draft. This will eliminate a lot of the dud bowl games that featured rosters with star players on the sidelines. There's no doubt this was a big factor in the subcommittee's thinking to keep the big bowl games relevant.
  • Only 2 teams will have to play as many as 16 (or 17) games. I think most players would jump at the chance to play a few more games to win a championship. The FCS has been doing that for a while now.
  • ND (or any other team) making it to the playoffs won't mean as much. That's true but so what? Winning 1 playoff game will mean a lot, and making it to the semifinals will mean much, much more.
Here are two other things to consider:

  • 11-1 will likely mean we are always in the playoffs, 10-2 will still get us in the playoffs a lot of the time. We couldn't say that before.
  • If ND gets beat in a semifinal game - even if it is a blowout - we will still have two big playoff wins to point to as having had a successful post-season.
Hey, I still believe CCGs are mostly BS money grabs and I hate the fact there is no concrete rankings penalty for teams that play FCS teams, but there have been too many deaf ears when anyone tries to bring up those points, so any playoff expansion was likely going to contain CCG guarantees and the only way to make such an expansion fair and even beneficial to ND was to expand to 12 or more teams. Any less than that would have put ND at a distinct disadvantage.

I think this proposed system is the best realistic option they could have come up with even if the ideal options would have been much, much better.
 
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If ND is in the top 12 at the end of the regular season, but there are a few upsets in the P5 champ games - especially by a P5 team that was outside the top 12 before the champ game is played - you basically have a team outside the top 12 jumping into the playoff - and perhaps not pushing out the P5 team that lost its champ game. It just depends on the year. That issue could be alleviated somewhat if conferences were required to put their top 2 teams in the conf champ game (like the Big 12 every year and the ACC in 2020) instead of the stupid divisions which can have a 3 loss team playing an undefeated team. But so far, there have been no comments regarding that.

Another subject not discussed yet is the following: The idea of putting the power 5 teams that won their conf champ game in the top 5 (as opposed to the top power 5 teams as ranked by the committee) was done to encourage better OOC games. So long as each power 5 team has a shot at getting into the playoffs by winning its conf champ game (where entry to the game is dictated by only conference games), these teams are supposed to be "encouraged" to schedule more interesting OOC games. SOS will become a more interesting measure, but we won't know how the committee views it.

But mostly, these conferences are built for survival and they don't share unless they are under duress. Clearly there has been political duress brought by the G5. Who knows how they will really respond to this. But there is no doubt that the majority of the power 5 conferences insisted that their conference champ games be given first priority to the playoffs as opposed to the current playoff system where it's just an "extra data point" that is valued at whatever the Committee wants to say it is for that year.
 
I am not 100% sure, but I do not believe that is how it would work - meaning it won't matter what our record is, there would be zero chance of us getting a 1-4 seed unless part of a conference.
You are correct. The first 4 seeds will always be teams that won its conference champ game.
 
I don't ever think it is a blessing to have to play an extra game in the playoffs.
But at the end of the day, I don't think it'll matter. Because a handful of a teams will have played a conference championship game and then still have to play a first round game. ND won't have to worry about that scenario.
 
I think never being able to be ranked in the top 4 is a bigger deal than you're making it out to be. Having to play an extra game against a top caliber team is no walk in the park. The above ranked team will essentially have a bye week while ND will be battling for survival.
I find this as a way to put the pressure on ND to join a conference.
Personally, while I love college football, I believe asking teams to play up to a 17_game season , is asking too much
It's quite the opposite. This allows Notre Dame a pathway WITHOUT joining a conference.
 
It doesn't matter when you enter a playoff having to win four games as opposed to three? I disagree.
Yes, but if I'm not mistaken those teams that have to play 3 games will have already played a 13th game because of the conference championship, which ND will not do. I don't disagree that it sucks that ND could be a top 4 team and then forced to
It's quite the opposite. This allows Notre Dame a pathway WITHOUT joining a conference.
There are a lot of different ways to look at this. I think we can all agree that this isn't all good or all bad for ND. I will admit that I'm bothered by the fact that ND was allowed to be in the top 4 and make playoffs without having a 13th game and now they're not allowing a bye for not having a championship game. Doesn't make sense but the reality is ND will still be allowed to be an independent and have an opportunity to get that NC.
 
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