Bird vs Nique 2.0

[raulduke_007]

Holy smokes Tatum & Giannis putting on a show reminding me of when Larry & Nique went back & forth in Gm7 in 88. Patty C also having himself a game. Been a great series almost a shame they met up in 2nd rd & not ECF. Hate Boston but hope it goes 7 this is too fun.

 

[IrishMike409]

Holy smokes Tatum & Giannis putting on a show reminding me of when Larry & Nique went back & forth in Gm7 in 88. Patty C also having himself a game. Been a great series almost a shame they met up in 2nd rd & not ECF. Hate Boston but hope it goes 7 this is too fun.

Unreal performance by Tatum, in a fight-for-your-life road game. Just unreal. I’m not a Celtics fan, but that was awesome to watch.

Seemed like Bucks and Giannis got every call. The charge that Grant Williams took, that got reversed……not sure how/why they reversed that. But it woulda been 5 fouls on Giannis.

Game 7 should be phenomenal. Can’t wait.

 

[Granite45]

Seemed like Bucks and Giannis got every call.

Celtics had more free throws so not too one-sided.

 

[IrishMike409]

Celtics had more free throws so not too one-sided.

Good point.

I questioned the charge reversal on Grant Williams. And also- I thought Smart’s charge attempt in the middle of the 4th was a charge too. Giannis lit him up. No call, and it ended up being a dunk literally on top of Smart’s head.

Not sure how you defend Giannis…….he’s 7 ft, flying down the court, he’s Euro stepping around charge attempts, so they ended up being block calls. He’s also traveling, and those aren’t getting called. He catches it running full speed at half court, takes 1 dribble, then Euro steps around guys to the rim.

 

[raulduke_007]

Gotta think winner of Celts/Bucks series wins it all.
Miami is solid but dont think they have the fire power to match either Bos or Bucks. No way Bam is handling Giannis & if its Bos dont think they can generate enough offense to offset Tatum & Brown.
In the West I think GS is too flawed. As beautiful as their offense can be when its clicking they are still way to careless with the ball.
Phoenix has the pieces but Booker & CP3 both injury prone & the team as a whole has pulled alot of no show games these playoffs.
Mavs too relient on the 3 & Luka.

 

[IrishMike409]

Gotta think winner of Celts/Bucks series wins it all.
Miami is solid but dont think they have the fire power to match either Bos or Bucks. No way Bam is handling Giannis & if its Bos dont think they can generate enough offense to offset Tatum & Brown.
In the West I think GS is too flawed. As beautiful as their offense can be when its clicking they are still way to careless with the ball.
Phoenix has the pieces but Booker & CP3 both injury prone & the team as a whole has pulled alot of no show games these playoffs.
Mavs too relient on the 3 & Luka.

I love this Bucks team, and appreciate how Budenholzer coaches, but they really need Middleton to get healthy. I don’t think they can gut out 2 more 7 game wars without his firepower.

Agree- Miami is good, but not quite “title good”.

I really think Boston, Milwaukee, Suns, and GSW can all win it. Might come down to who’s healthiest.

 

[francade]

Good call, raulduke. 4th qtr of Bird-Dominique game 7 in ‘88 is the greatest quarter of NBA basketball I’ve ever seen. Those two were unconscious. The falling down forward lefty in the paint after getting fouled was epic bird. Nique is definitely one of the greats. He’s underrated all time, no doubt.

 

[Golson5]

Good call, raulduke. 4th qtr of Bird-Dominique game 7 in ‘88 is the greatest quarter of NBA basketball I’ve ever seen. Those two were unconscious. The falling down forward lefty in the paint after getting fouled was epic bird. Nique is definitely one of the greats. He’s underrated all time, no doubt.

Don't agree about Nique but yes that was almost as good as it gets. That quarter was special

 

[raulduke_007]

Good call, raulduke. 4th qtr of Bird-Dominique game 7 in ‘88 is the greatest quarter of NBA basketball I’ve ever seen. Those two were unconscious. The falling down forward lefty in the paint after getting fouled was epic bird. Nique is definitely one of the greats. He’s underrated all time, no doubt.

The weird thing is that was the last meaningful game Bird played. He was awful against Det in the ECF then his back & Celts gave completely out. Nique recovered after the achilles injury but never was in title contention again

 

[savvyandsassier]

Good call, raulduke. 4th qtr of Bird-Dominique game 7 in ‘88 is the greatest quarter of NBA basketball I’ve ever seen. Those two were unconscious. The falling down forward lefty in the paint after getting fouled was epic bird. Nique is definitely one of the greats. He’s underrated all time, no doubt.

I know, I watched that too as a kid. And I'm pretty sure you can youtube it for old time's sake. I did watch Tatum's highlights on youtube, and he would be the Larry Bird of the two, with all those threes he was draining...

It was pretty impressive. But it definitely makes me sort of think, if you want to compare the two eras, that I would still go with Bird/Dominique over their contemporary counterparts. Larry Bird would destroy if he were in the NBA of today. The main thing that distinguishes today's NBA, as some sort of continued evolution of the sport, is the advanced outside shooting prowess. And while Tatum displayed that in spades, it still feels like there's something missing from modern players. And thus it's still true to say, Jordan>>>Lebraon....

 

[raulduke_007]

People get the era's wrong. Back in 88 it was straight man to man D where Defenders had to be within an arms length of opposing players, only hard doubles were allowed. It was much easier to iso and 1 player could control the game & get his shots. It was more about match ups.
Today you have more of a chance to take out the opposing teams best player with Team D. Celts did it to KD in 1st Rd. While they played great individual D at times but the primary Defender always had help behind him which allowed the primary Defender to play more aggressive. The reason the 3 has became so important is because that's the trade off. Today D would rather have role players chucking 3's than star players getting down hill or ISO'ing in the midrange. Modern NBA the "others" play a more important role than in 80's & 90's.

 

[wi_hoosier]

Unreal performance by Tatum, in a fight-for-your-life road game. Just unreal. I’m not a Celtics fan, but that was awesome to watch.

Seemed like Bucks and Giannis got every call. The charge that Grant Williams took, that got reversed……not sure how/why they reversed that. But it woulda been 5 fouls on Giannis.

Game 7 should be phenomenal. Can’t wait.

They reversed it because Williams was still moving, which by rule is a block... just saying.

 

[francade]

“The weird thing is that was the last meaningful game Bird played. He was awful against Det in the ECF then his back & Celts gave completely out. Nique recovered after the achilles injury but never was in title contention again”

yeah, his heels and back didn’t hold up too well after that. Too bad what happened to Len Bias. Bird could’ve managed his injuries a lot easier had bias been around. Talk about a talent. He was Jordan at the 3 spot. I miss hoops from the 80s, the golden era.

 

[savvyandsassier]

“The weird thing is that was the last meaningful game Bird played. He was awful against Det in the ECF then his back & Celts gave completely out. Nique recovered after the achilles injury but never was in title contention again”

yeah, his heels and back didn’t hold up too well after that. Too bad what happened to Len Bias. Bird could’ve managed his injuries a lot easier had bias been around. Talk about a talent. He was Jordan at the 3 spot. I miss hoops from the 80s, the golden era.

I definitely feel like it was a golden era. I'm biased, but I'll agree with anyone on that much. Truth be told they could travel to a time warp and play each other, and maybe teams from today would kick their ass, but there was something about the Bulls, the Lakers, the Celtics, the Pistons... those guys were taking the game to another level from where it was. They launched the modern era is maybe how to think of it. In addition to some really good teams in their own right and some classic rivalries....

It was the transitional period from the genuine old-timey basketball of previous generations, to a more wide open, athletic, bad-ass brand of hoops..... And it kind of had the best of both worlds.

 

[francade]

“. And it kind of had the best of both worlds.”

this^^

 

[raulduke_007]

I definitely feel like it was a golden era. I'm biased, but I'll agree with anyone on that much. Truth be told they could travel to a time warp and play each other, and maybe teams from today would kick their ass, but there was something about the Bulls, the Lakers, the Celtics, the Pistons... those guys were taking the game to another level from where it was. They launched the modern era is maybe how to think of it. In addition to some really good teams in their own right and some classic rivalries....

It was the transitional period from the genuine old-timey basketball of previous generations, to a more wide open, athletic, bad-ass brand of hoops..... And it kind of had the best of both worlds.

80-90's had less saturation of games & media coverage. You basically only got to watch your team games & if you were lucky to have cable TNT games. Games were more special because there was limited TV choices.
Then we hit the Sportscenter era (late 80's to 90's era) where SC was still in its Wizard of Oz phase. The general public didnt fully understand the power of editing/highlights. The NBA & media actually built up stars.
Then enter Charles Barkley to TNT. His "keeping it real" takes spawned copycats like SAS & Skip & then Social Media went mainstream. Now were in this stupid era where talentless sh!tbirds crap on every player. If Larry Bird was in this era he wouldnt even be considered a top 20 alltime player which is complete nonsense. He would of been stripped of his 1st title because of 3 straight bad games in his 1st Finals. He would have got killed for the 87 Finals and absolutely destroyed for the 88 ECF where he shot 35% for the series. I

 

[savvyandsassier]

80-90's had less saturation of games. You basically only got to watch your team games & if you were lucky to have cable TNT games. Games were more special because there was limited TV choices.
Then we hit the Sportscenter era (late 80's to 90's era) where SC was still in its Wizard of Oz phase. The general public didnt fully understand the power of editing/highlights. The NBA & media actually built up stars.
Then enter Charles Barkley to TNT. His "keeping it real" takes spawned copycats like SAS & Skip & then Social Media went mainstream. Now were in this stupid era where talentless sh!tbirds crap on every player. If Larry Bird was in this era he wouldnt even be considered a top 20 alltime player which is complete nonsense. He would of been stripped of his 1st title because of 3 straight bad games in his 1st Finals. He would have got killed for the 87 Finals and absolutely destroyed for the 88 ECF where he shot 35% for the series. I

Maybe you're right. But I know Jordan would destroy in this current era, you're just being a schmuck if you try to suggest otherwise. And Bird was very much a superstar playing alongside the likes of him...

I mainly just meant in terms of his outside shooting, and everybody shoots threes like it's nothing these days. And then there's Stefan Curry, who is no more, and probably quite a bit less athletic or physically gifted than your average guard from the 80s, and he is one of the transcendent stars of this generation, and in a way he's not much more than a shorter version of his dad, a random name from the 80s NBA if there ever was one. He's just more confident and shoots way more often.

So it's a completely hypothetical exercise to make even the slightest serious contemplation about how someone from thirty years ago would play today. But in the case of MJ it's sufficiently laughable to suggest that he would be nothing more than some average player today, though that's where the logic inevitably goes from your typical.... we'll just call them douchebag fans like yourself, who I guess think you're all smart because you're so unsentimental about it. Even though your logic train on this subject, or whatever, is so simplistic and shallow, even though it may be correct. Thankfully it's utterly hypothetical, and no one will ever know, not even at all, just how well Larry Bird would fare if he played today......

 

[IrishMike409]

Maybe you're right. But I know Jordan would destroy in this current era, you're just being a schmuck if you try to suggest otherwise. And Bird was very much a superstar playing alongside the likes of him...

I mainly just meant in terms of his outside shooting, and everybody shoots threes like it's nothing these days. And then there's Stefan Curry, who is no more, and probably quite a bit less athletic or physically gifted than your average guard from the 80s, and he is one of the transcendent stars of this generation, and in a way he's not much more than a shorter version of his dad, a random name from the 80s NBA if there ever was one. He's just more confident and shoots way more often.

So it's a completely hypothetical exercise to make even the slightest serious contemplation about how someone from thirty years ago would play today. But in the case of MJ it's sufficiently laughable to suggest that he would be nothing more than some average player today, though that's where the logic inevitably goes from your typical.... we'll just call them douchebag fans like yourself, who I guess think you're all smart because you're so unsentimental about it. Even though your logic train on this subject, or whatever, is so simplistic and shallow, even though it may be correct. Thankfully it's utterly hypothetical, and no one will ever know, not even at all, just how well Larry Bird would fare if he played today......

Prime and healthy Bird would be All NBA First Team, and his team would be in the running to win a title every season.

 

[raulduke_007]

Prime and healthy Bird would be All NBA First Team, and his team would be in the running to win a title every season.

Bird is an alltime great my point was that in todays media/social media enviroment Bird would get destroyed for his shortcomings in the Finals & playoffs. There would a narrative that Bird had 9 Final games where he shot under 40% that in more than half his Final games he shot under 50%. His 88 ECF he shot 35% for the entire series. Bird would be called overrated, carried by his teammates because in his 1st Finals when he had 3 straight bad games. Blew the 85 Finals to "Tragic" Johnson. Missed a game winner in 87 & had a below average Finals.

Just to put it into perspective what im talking about Skip Bayless has Tweeted 48,000 times about Lebron James. He has spent a decade, thousand of hours of airtime trashing Lebron on a daily basis. Guys like Skip & his ilk dominate the sports media landscape & have created a narrative that is not based in reality. They do it for ratings & clicks that generates money for them. There are very few objective reporters left because their style doesnt generate ratinga or trends. We would look very different at past NBA stars if they played in this media era.

 

[IrishMike409]

Bird is an alltime great my point was that in todays media/social media enviroment Bird would get destroyed for his shortcomings in the Finals & playoffs. There would a narrative that Bird had 9 Final games where he shot under 40% that in more than half his Final games he shot under 50%. His 88 ECF he shot 35% for the entire series. Bird would be called overrated, carried by his teammates because in his 1st Finals when he had 3 straight bad games. Blew the 85 Finals to "Tragic" Johnson. Missed a game winner in 87 & had a below average Finals.

Just to put it into perspective what im talking about Skip Bayless has Tweeted 48,000 times about Lebron James. He has spent a decade, thousand of hours of airtime trashing Lebron on a daily basis. Guys like Skip & his ilk dominate the sports media landscape & have created a narrative that is not based in reality. They do it for ratings & clicks that generates money for them. There are very few objective reporters left because their style doesnt generate ratinga or trends. We would look very different at past NBA stars if they played in this media era.

Certainly could be right.

But in todays game, Bird would shoot more 3s and likely hit them at a higher clip. I’d venture to say he’d shoot 8-10 a game, and hit 43-46%. And with the advancements in nutrition and SC, maybe Bird ends up with 12-13 healthy seasons, instead of 9. That means 1 or maybe 2 more titles, perhaps even stealing 1 from Jordan and the Bulls.

Granted, I’m just speculating, but it’s fun to do!

 

[savvyandsassier]

Prime and healthy Bird would be All NBA First Team, and his team would be in the running to win a title every season.

The idea of course, the theory.... is that the game is better today, generally speaking, and in fact it's so much better, so much faster, stronger, more skillful, more athletic, etc. etc. etc..... that as crazy and unbelievable as it sounds, no stars from the '80s would amount to shit if they played today. And it's true that the arrow of progress points in the same direction of inexorable time, especially in the here and now, when human society is progressing at a rapid rate.....

But I just don't know how much that would really bear out, in the case of NBA basketball from between the 80s/90s, and now..... They're not any bigger or taller. They're not any more athletic, which is a physical trait and there has been no significant change in bodily evolution in 30 years time. So there's no effect there. It's only that they're presumably just better in some general way. That the level and speed and sophistication and subtlety of the game today, and the skill levels of the players that play the game today would just be at a higher level, and even if you couldn't put your finger on any one thing, you would definitely notice it when players from today played circles around dudes from the 80s.... if they could actually somehow play each other in their prime.

Of course that's entirely hypothetical and there's no possible way to be sure, even if you do get a gnawing feeling that's how it might play out. Because NBA players were pretty effin' good in the 80s and 90s.....

 

[savvyandsassier]

Just one more thing about Larry Bird. He was a totally decent athlete. He was not some crude, slow-footed, awkward athlete. He had tremendous coordination and body control, and he was very swift and fluid in his way and masterfully played within himself and got the most out of his physical tools like few others. He just wasn't going to win the dunk contest is all.

 

[raulduke_007]

Certainly could be right.

But in todays game, Bird would shoot more 3s and likely hit them at a higher clip. I’d venture to say he’d shoot 8-10 a game, and hit 43-46%. And with the advancements in nutrition and SC, maybe Bird ends up with 12-13 healthy seasons, instead of 9. That means 1 or maybe 2 more titles, perhaps even stealing 1 from Jordan and the Bulls.

Granted, I’m just speculating, but it’s fun to do!

It's difficult to compare these 2 era's because there is a big difference between Man 2 Man & "hybrid" Zone defenses. Most fans think the 80's-90's guys had it tougher but I think their wrong. Man to Man D naturally favors the offensive player. The strategy becomes more about player match ups. In the hybrid zone era a team can collectively take away an offensive player & force other people beat you. MJ, Bird, Magic never faced teams forming a wall, soft doubles, guys spying them. Defenses schemes designed to stop them.
As for Talent Pool. In the 80's era there were around 100 D1 programs and US players made up 99% of the NBA when basketball was a 3rd tier US Sport,
90's era not much better US players made of 93%
Now there are 353 D1 Programs & US players make up 74% of NBA players were basketball is the 2nd most popular Sport in the world behind Soccer.

 

[raulduke_007]

Giannis 1 qrt stat line 10 7 6 yeesh.

 

[raulduke_007]

Giannis finally wore down, Bucks couldnt take advantage of Celts poor 1st qrt shooting and build a large enough lead. Bucks "others" didnt come through. Middleton was just to big of a loss to overcome. Celts got a great shot at winning the title this year.

 

[raulduke_007]

Holy fvck Luka. Never would have predicted Suns would fall apart like this. Beyond stunned.

 

[raulduke_007]

Luka elimination stats gonna take a hit. If he gets serious about his body he can break all of Lebron's playoff stats. Only current player with a shot to do it. Special player. But I will bet the farm that the morning shows will downplay his playoff resume.

 

[Golson5]

Holy fvck Luka. Never would have predicted Suns would fall apart like this. Beyond stunned.

Unreal. Can't even believe it

 

[raulduke_007]

Unreal. Can't even believe it

Kidd's adjustment to double Booker everytime changed the series. CP3 once again faded late in the series. Father time undefeated.

 

[IrishMike409]

Outside of Luka, do the Mavs have a Top 50 player? Maybe Brunson?

 

[raulduke_007]

Outside of Luka, do the Mavs have a Top 50 player? Maybe Brunson?

Essentially its Luka & the others shooting 3's. Dimwiddy & Brunson can give you a numbers but they are still too inconsistent to be All Star caliber players.

The Series turned alot on Kidd taking advantage of the Defensive rules & Monty not adjusting the Suns defende. They played way too much Man to Man. Plus Mavs/fathertime wore CP3 out. They picked him up 90 ft the whole series. And after game 5 the Mav's Defense philosophy became anyone but Booker is shooting the ball. They constantly sent 2 to trap Booker plus a spy roaming ball side. Mavs conceded the opposite corner 3 & Booker or the next passer rarely swung the ball.

 

[IrishMike409]

Essentially its Luka & the others shooting 3's. Dimwiddy & Brunson can give you a numbers but they are still too inconsistent to be All Star caliber players.

The Series turned alot on Kidd taking advantage of the Defensive rules & Monty not adjusting the Suns defende. They played way too much Man to Man. Plus Mavs/fathertime wore CP3 out. They picked him up 90 ft the whole series. And after game 5 the Mav's Defense philosophy became anyone but Booker is shooting the ball. They constantly sent 2 to trap Booker plus a spy roaming ball side. Mavs conceded the opposite corner 3 & Booker or the next passer rarely swung the ball.

This is good analysis. You know basketball at a high level.

 

[artemis gordon]

Luka elimination stats gonna take a hit. If he gets serious about his body he can break all of Lebron's playoff stats. Only current player with a shot to do it. Special player. But I will bet the farm that the morning shows will downplay his playoff resume.

View embedded media

You are prescient.

 

[savvyandsassier]

This is good analysis. You know basketball at a high level.

Maybe that's why he thinks he can be so sure and so smug that NBA players of today would crush players of yore.

It's one of the most hypothetical things you could ever imagine, with no possible way to prove it or test it, but you see these younger, know-it-all upstart sports guys, wanna-be pundits, that try to build their brand by being all hard-boiled about it, whenever people start comparing Jordan to Lebron or shit like that.... and how foolish everyone is, how feeble-minded, if you can't grasp how's there no comparison between the two eras....

It's completely laughably stupid to start with, just in general, and anything but certain that today's NBA players, just to take one sport, are somehow undeniably better and superior in every way, if for no other reason than the unavoidable passage of time and the presumed inexorable improvement and developmental progress that invariably comes with the passage of time. And that's it, that's their big, compelling argument. It's condescending, and mainly pointless and utterly impossible to prove in any way. But it is a good way to sound all smart, and like you're some astute, next-level observer of society and sports....

 

[francade]

Agree w/ last 2 paragraphs^^^^^^

 

[savvyandsassier]

To be fair most fans don't get all that serious about it, and they mainly just compare stats, and career MVPs and titles won and all the rest of it....

But you do get a few of the smart ones, and they get all the fussy about how it's impossible to directly compare the two eras, which is certainly true in a way. I think the only real impetus or whatnot, in taking that tack in a Jordan/Lebron debate, and getting all profound and philosophical about it.... is because Jordan crushes Lebron! Any regular statistical compare and contrast between the two and MJ is the easy winner. So they gotta think of something.

And so that's what we get, these more elusive, imponderable considerations that even though MJ easily tops Lebron without much serious debate, including just with the eye test IMO.... that you probably have to give it to Lebron in the end on account of how players today are just so much more advanced than they possibly could ever be in 80s/90s, and that ultimately Lebron is better. It's so stupid....

 

[raulduke_007]

Oy vey, in the late 70's-early 80's the NBA was on the verge of collaspe, the Finals were on tape delay, players were drinking beer & smoking cigs during halftime, then at night blowing as much cocaine as they could get their hands on. The talent pool was 99% American with way fewer avenues to get to the NBA than today around 100 D1 programs back then, today there are 353 D1 programs, no AAU/year round travel teams. Basketball went from a 3rd tier US Sport to the 2nd most popular sport in the world.
Players like Luka were teenagers winning Euro titles for Real Madrid in more hostile enviroments than even the NBA. The notion that the average NBA player in the 80's is better or equal to todays players is just not a logical argument.

I completely understand the MJ love. He is biggest sports ICON in my lifetime & is a God like figure to my fellow Gen Xers. While Magic & Bird saved the NBA MJ is the biggest reason basketball expanded & became the global sport it is today. There will never be more important player in our lifetimes. I think Lebron is better bball player, but he will never be a loved/idolized like MJ.

 

[francade]

There’s no debating that there’s way more specialization in the sport (& every sport) today than there was a few decades ago. Players are playing year round and have top notch dietary/conditioning to hone their game. But that doesn’t mean that had the players back in the day had those same perks, they wouldn’t be just as good as today’s player. The talent pool is definitely bigger, but there are also 6-8 more teams than there were back then, so that kind of evens out. As for the cigars & cocaine, to think today’s player doesn’t party his ass off is either ignorant or naive. About 80% of the nba is smoking weed regularly. Doesn’t bother me, but some athletes tend to party, whether it’s the 70s or today. As for Jordan or lebron? I’d take all four superstars from the 80s (Jordan, magic, bird & Olajuwon) ahead of lebron. I know some of your heads just exploded but it’s just my opinion. I’m not talking about stats or numbers or longevity either. I’m talking about watching them all closely (& I’ve watched the sport pretty closely for four decades) and evaluating them in their prime. If they’re all in the same draft, I’d have Jordan first, then magic, bird, Hakeem & lebron. Commence the head explosions. 😉

 

[Golson5]

There’s no debating that there’s way more specialization in the sport (& every sport) today than there was a few decades ago. Players are playing year round and have top notch dietary/conditioning to hone their game. But that doesn’t mean that had the players back in the day had those same perks, they wouldn’t be just as good as today’s player. The talent pool is definitely bigger, but there are also 6-8 more teams than there were back then, so that kind of evens out. As for the cigars & cocaine, to think today’s player doesn’t party his ass off is either ignorant or naive. About 80% of the nba is smoking weed regularly. Doesn’t bother me, but some athletes tend to party, whether it’s the 70s or today. As for Jordan or lebron? I’d take all four superstars from the 80s (Jordan, magic, bird & Olajuwon) ahead of lebron. I know some of your heads just exploded but it’s just my opinion. I’m not talking about stats or numbers or longevity either. I’m talking about watching them all closely (& I’ve watched the sport pretty closely for four decades) and evaluating them in their prime. If they’re all in the same draft, I’d have Jordan first, then magic, bird, Hakeem & lebron. Commence the head explosions. 😉

Id take Lebron first, Jordan second. 3 through 5 is very tough.

 

[raulduke_007]

GS running a 2/3 & box & 1 zones to stop Luka early. Kerr not gonna make the same mistake Monty made & make anyone but Luka beat them. Honestly hate zone defenses in the NBA they really need to go back to Man to Man. Professionals should have to guard a man. 🤮