Another year...same old, same old ineffective QB

[88ND]

Another year and another "starting QB" that will not...

THROW THE BALL DOWN THE FIELD.

Why is that?

Physically unable to? Where have we seen that before? The last two starting QB's would struggle hitting 50 yards and Riley this year is keeping up that tradition.

Coaching..
calling offense afraid of failure. Afraid of any risks as we dare not have any big plays.

Coaching part 2...
Please ...oh please FIRE any coach that has to do with the receiving group.
Again like a broken record...
Pocket breaks down, QB bails...and our receivers standing there spectating. Nobody running their man off...and god forbid get behind the defense for a big play.
We never want that.

Coaching part 3....
Just because someone bears the title of "coach" doesn't mean they're any good and in our case has any idea what the hell to do.

Riley was bad at Duke. He escaped with a couple nice wins that Elko helped along the way but he was nothing special.

NIL!!!
Could it be that since someone decided to give Riley the world for selling shaving cream or some weird thing that is the driving force behind the decision to start him?

Is NIL running the program nowadays?

If Riley is really the #1 QB on the roster then that really explains the current and continued state of the program.

This team will go as far as those silly terrified of failure 3 yard out routes will take us.

 

[NDinNJ]

Another year and another "starting QB" that will not...

THROW THE BALL DOWN THE FIELD.

Why is that?

Physically unable to? Where have we seen that before? The last two starting QB's would struggle hitting 50 yards and Riley this year is keeping up that tradition.

Coaching..
calling offense afraid of failure. Afraid of any risks as we dare not have any big plays.

Coaching part 2...
Please ...oh please FIRE any coach that has to do with the receiving group.
Again like a broken record...
Pocket breaks down, QB bails...and our receivers standing there spectating. Nobody running their man off...and god forbid get behind the defense for a big play.
We never want that.

Coaching part 3....
Just because someone bears the title of "coach" doesn't mean they're any good and in our case has any idea what the hell to do.

Riley was bad at Duke. He escaped with a couple nice wins that Elko helped along the way but he was nothing special.

NIL!!!
Could it be that since someone decided to give Riley the world for selling shaving cream or some weird thing that is the driving force behind the decision to start him?

Is NIL running the program nowadays?

If Riley is really the #1 QB on the roster then that really explains the current and continued state of the program.

This team will go as far as those silly terrified of failure 3 yard out routes will take us.

I never bought into Riley Leonard or Sam Hartman last year. My reasons are logical. Look at their recruiting profile. Look at the offers they had coming out of high school. They both ended up at the schools they were at for a reason, because they were average to below average QB's. I'm not referring to their rankings because those can be flawed, but look at what schools offered them scholarships.

Meanwhile most on this forum and other forums have been overlooking Angeli. Look at Angeli's recruiting profile and offer list. Compare the three, and it's easy to see the coaches made major mistakes bringing in a one and done rental QB and anointing them the starter without a REAL QB competition. To me that alone is reason to fire Freeman.

I find it very difficult to believe that Angeli is not a better QB than Hartman or Leonard. Just look at Angeli's numbers in the limited playing time he's had. He's accurate, can move, makes his reads, and has an arm. The critics will say, but he's only played against 2nd team defenses. NIU starters are less talented than most 2nd team P5 defenses. Riley Leonard has been inaccurate, has shown he has a weak arm, and is not as mobile as everyone said he was. A real QB competition would have born this out. That's on MF and the coaching staff.

 

[HarlemIrish]

The season is over unfortunately. Let Angeli, Carr & Meecham fight it out. Play them each a qtr and go from there. ND in NJ maybe you're right. Leonard played at Duke football for a reason. He wasn't at USC, Michigan, Florida St , or Bama.

 

[NDinNJ]

The season is over unfortunately. Let Angeli, Carr & Meecham fight it out. Play them each a qtr and go from there. ND in NJ maybe you're right. Leonard played at Duke football for a reason. He wasn't at USC, Michigan, Florida St , or Bama.

Not only that, look at his offer list coming out of HS. His best offers were Ole Miss and Nebraska. the rest of his offers were Syracuse, Duke, Vanderbilt, Tulane, South Alabama, and Southern Miss.

 

[tbonesays]

I find it very difficult to believe that Angeli is not a better QB than Hartman or Leonard. Just look at Angeli's numbers in the limited playing time he's had. He's accurate, can move, makes his reads, and has an arm.

You need to watch practice to make that assessment.

 

[NDinNJ]

You need to watch practice to make that assessment.

And no one on this forum including you and I have watched practice, so none of us know except the coaches, and right now I'm questioning their ability to evaluate talent properly on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[chaseball]

Another year and another "starting QB" that will not...

THROW THE BALL DOWN THE FIELD.

Why is that?

Physically unable to? Where have we seen that before? The last two starting QB's would struggle hitting 50 yards and Riley this year is keeping up that tradition.

Coaching..
calling offense afraid of failure. Afraid of any risks as we dare not have any big plays.

Coaching part 2...
Please ...oh please FIRE any coach that has to do with the receiving group.
Again like a broken record...
Pocket breaks down, QB bails...and our receivers standing there spectating. Nobody running their man off...and god forbid get behind the defense for a big play.
We never want that.

Coaching part 3....
Just because someone bears the title of "coach" doesn't mean they're any good and in our case has any idea what the hell to do.

Riley was bad at Duke. He escaped with a couple nice wins that Elko helped along the way but he was nothing special.

NIL!!!
Could it be that since someone decided to give Riley the world for selling shaving cream or some weird thing that is the driving force behind the decision to start him?

Is NIL running the program nowadays?

If Riley is really the #1 QB on the roster then that really explains the current and continued state of the program.

This team will go as far as those silly terrified of failure 3 yard out routes will take us.

Hopefully you stick around and post more often I miss reading your comments on the football team

 

[88ND]

@NDinNJ
The QB position got ruined under Kelly by allowing Book to stay on for 17 years.
Then I said over the prevuous two years that playing this portal game is ridiculously stupid.
Freemqm might be doing better than Kelly in some areas but he's definitely mimicking BK on how to choose and stay with the wrong QB.

I also said two years ago the best QB on the roster was Angeli.
#1 he was the only QB at the time with real QB height.
#2 his running ability or lack of will make us a better team because he will throw the ball down the field.
#3 This whole thing is so irritating...I can't help but think NIL is a force in this.

 

[sjb75]

Chaseball and 88ND in the same thread.

Nausea.

 

[sjb75]

I never bought into Riley Leonard or Sam Hartman last year. My reasons are logical. Look at their recruiting profile. Look at the offers they had coming out of high school. They both ended up at the schools they were at for a reason, because they were average to below average QB's. I'm not referring to their rankings because those can be flawed, but look at what schools offered them scholarships.

Meanwhile most on this forum and other forums have been overlooking Angeli. Look at Angeli's recruiting profile and offer list. Compare the three, and it's easy to see the coaches made major mistakes bringing in a one and done rental QB and anointing them the starter without a REAL QB competition. To me that alone is reason to fire Freeman.

I find it very difficult to believe that Angeli is not a better QB than Hartman or Leonard. Just look at Angeli's numbers in the limited playing time he's had. He's accurate, can move, makes his reads, and has an arm. The critics will say, but he's only played against 2nd team defenses. NIU starters are less talented than most 2nd team P5 defenses. Riley Leonard has been inaccurate, has shown he has a weak arm, and is not as mobile as everyone said he was. A real QB competition would have born this out. That's on MF and the coaching staff.

You aren't at practice. Telling us that Steve Angeli is the best QB for this team is simply throwing darts.

 

[NDinNJ]

You aren't at practice. Telling us that Steve Angeli is the best QB for this team is simply throwing darts.

I'm questioning the coaching staff and their evaluation of the offense and the QB position after this debacle.

 

[Quix0te]

Another year and another "starting QB" that will not...

THROW THE BALL DOWN THE FIELD.

Actually, Leonard had a pretty decent game (20 of 32) up until he threw the ball down the field. That 4th qtr interception was horrific. He missed the receiver by 10 yards and there were two NIU defenders closer to the ball than the ND receiver was. It was not only a game-losing throw, it may well end up being a playoff-berth-ending throw.

 

[NDinNJ]

Chaseball and 88ND in the same thread.

Nausea.

sjb75 commenting in the thread.

even more nauseating.

 

[sjb75]

sjb75 commenting in the thread.

even more nauseating.

Well, unlike Golson, at least I show my face.

 

[Patrirish]

Another year and another "starting QB" that will not...

THROW THE BALL DOWN THE FIELD.

Why is that?

Physically unable to? Where have we seen that before? The last two starting QB's would struggle hitting 50 yards and Riley this year is keeping up that tradition.

Coaching..
calling offense afraid of failure. Afraid of any risks as we dare not have any big plays.

Coaching part 2...
Please ...oh please FIRE any coach that has to do with the receiving group.
Again like a broken record...
Pocket breaks down, QB bails...and our receivers standing there spectating. Nobody running their man off...and god forbid get behind the defense for a big play.
We never want that.

Coaching part 3....
Just because someone bears the title of "coach" doesn't mean they're any good and in our case has any idea what the hell to do.

Riley was bad at Duke. He escaped with a couple nice wins that Elko helped along the way but he was nothing special.

NIL!!!
Could it be that since someone decided to give Riley the world for selling shaving cream or some weird thing that is the driving force behind the decision to start him?

Is NIL running the program nowadays?

If Riley is really the #1 QB on the roster then that really explains the current and continued state of the program.

This team will go as far as those silly terrified of failure 3 yard out routes will take us.

Quarterbacks can only run the plays that the coaches call !

 

[hoopsstar12]

And no one on this forum including you and I have watched practice, so none of us know except the coaches, and right now I'm questioning their ability to evaluate talent properly on the offensive side of the ball.

I was listening to sports gurus in mid August. They watched practice. They said Minchey looked the best followed by Carr. I have always liked Angeli too but I trust the guys observing practice over the coaches.

 

[NDinNJ]

I was listening to sports gurus in mid August. They watched practice. They said Minchey looked the best followed by Carr. I have always liked Angeli too but I trust the guys observing practice over the coaches.

They were privy to one practice. 😂

 

[tbonesays]

And no one on this forum including you and I have watched practice, so none of us know except the coaches, and right now I'm questioning their ability to evaluate talent properly on the offensive side of the ball.

he QB position got ruined under Kelly by allowing Book to stay on for 17 years.

@88ND ??

We went through this in the BK era when he was almost always right about the starter. Putting in Ian Book over Wimbush in 2018 despite the fact that the team had not yet lost a game was his best decision. Wimbush was not going to get us to 12-0.

I hope this year is abnormal because RL misses so many easy throws and forces bad ones. I don't want to think we have 3 others who are worse.

 

[tbonesays]

Actually, Leonard had a pretty decent game (20 of 32) up until he threw the ball down the field. That 4th qtr interception was horrific. He missed the receiver by 10 yards and there were two NIU defenders closer to the ball than the ND receiver was. It was not only a game-losing throw, it may well end up being a playoff-berth-ending throw.

Ironically that was the throw we needed Leonard to attempt on the last drive. We had less than 30 seconds to move the ball 50 yards. IT should have been the easiest decision of the day but only one of the three downs had a real try.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Actually, Leonard had a pretty decent game (20 of 32) up until he threw the ball down the field. That 4th qtr interception was horrific. He missed the receiver by 10 yards and there were two NIU defenders closer to the ball than the ND receiver was. It was not only a game-losing throw, it may well end up being a playoff-berth-ending throw.

Our offense sucks. It sucked against A&M and it sucked even worse against NIU and that's why we lost. The defense is playoff and maybe even championship caliber. And the offense is fair to middling and even lousy in every category and position group. I don't know exactly where RL fits into that mix, and just how middling or not he really is, regardless of his stats at the end of the day. But we cannot generate offense and yards and points predictably and reliably enough. Which is a shame because the defense is excellent.

So hopefully we get better.

 

[hoopsstar12]

They were privy to one practice. 😂

I have nothing against Angeli but whether it's 1 look or 100, Minchey has Elite 11 in his background v Angeli. I would like to see what all the QBs have other than Leonard.

 

[christophero]

I think if we played Texas or Georgia we would find out the defense is not championship caliber. Playoff caliber perhaps.

 

[88ND]

Quarterbacks can only run the plays that the coaches call !

as stated in the first my first coaching criticism...
Either they are afraid of failure just because or they know Riley can't make those throws.

Either way it is wrong.

Moreover are you also suggesting that someone who has enough between the ears to attend Duke and now our beloved that he can't be trusted to call an audible and change the play?

Your whole response is a fitting ND type performance kind of response.

 

[sjb75]

as stated in the first my first coaching criticism...
Either they are afraid of failure just because or they know Riley can't make those throws.

Either way it is wrong.

Moreover are you also suggesting that someone who has enough between the ears to attend Duke and now our beloved that he can't be trusted to call an audible and change the play?

Your whole response is a fitting ND type performance kind of response.

Never saw this poster after the TAM game.

 

[88ND]

I think if we played Texas or Georgia we would find out the defense is not championship caliber. Playoff caliber perhaps.

I said it a long time ago Golden needed whatever he asked for and then some.
He has the defense playing better than they have since the early 90's/late 80's

It is 2024..
teams score points. I don't care who you are teams will gets some points.
Hell the Citadel was tied 10-10 with the all world Alabama at the half....the same Bama team team half this board has a crush on yearly

If we can only muster 14 points in the college football today we 1000001 % deserve to lose every damn game.

We only beat A&M because they played the same way we did. Terrified of failing but our running game is better.

Any team that scores on us quickly twice will be nothing but a blood bath.

We are good at running but we aren't 1995 Nebraska good at running.

We are horrible at throwing. Just utterly atrocious.

We don't even give the defense something to think about by throwing it deep and over throwing everyone...but planting that seed we will try it. Back off the secondary because we will try that throw. NOPE...we don't even show the threat. But we will continue the 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense. It's really a 3 yard and cloud of dust offense with the QB joining in every other run.
That is great if we are so good at running nobody can stop it. We aren't that team.

In typical prior decade past...we are such an easy team to defend when we pass.

EASY! If any defensive coach says to hell with it...play tight on the receivers and make them throw deep to beat us..we are doomed.
remember the North Carolina game? Mr. Brown is not very bright. They showed him how to beat us...Marshall!!
What does he do? Has the seconday playing 12 yards off the receivers.

S T U P I D!

We are so easy to defend in the passing game and until we get someone in there who can throw the ball down the damn field it will continue.
We might steal a victory here and there but we have no business being in a playoff. Even a 12 team playoff.

If the real powers that be at ND...the NIL...if they will let Freeman put another QB in then we might be a 12 team playoff team but not with Riley taking the snap.

It's a sham.
AGAIN!

 

[tbonesays]

Our offense sucks. It sucked against A&M and it sucked even worse against NIU and that's why we lost. The defense is playoff and maybe even championship caliber. And the offense is fair to middling and even lousy in every category and position group. I don't know exactly where RL fits into that mix, and just how middling or not he really is, regardless of his stats at the end of the day. But we cannot generate offense and yards and points predictably and reliably enough. Which is a shame because the defense is excellent.

So hopefully we get better.

I checked the embarrassing games of the past, Marshall, 2022-Stanford. The pattern is easy to see. We lost none of those games by being outscored 48-45 big12-style shootout. In all of them we would go 3 quarters without much scoring. Then any 4th qtr the over is deadly.

It was also true for some of the games we wound up winning Cal, 2023 Duke, 2021 Toledo; we get into the 4th qtr and where are the points?

That is why I think we have a systemic failure, meaning we are running the wrong system.

 

[NDinNJ]

Riley Leonard's numbers weren't that great at Duke, barely a 60% completion rate, 12 interceptions to 24 TD's, and 7 yards per pass tells you he doesn't have a strong arm. Not sure where all this hype came from, but Riley Leonard is not a 1st round NFL. draft pick.

 

[Pennick4]

Chaseball and 88ND in the same thread.

Nausea.

StepBrothers.

 

[HarlemIrish]

Riley Leonard's numbers weren't that great at Duke, barely a 60% completion rate, 12 interceptions to 24 TD's, and 7 yards per pass tells you he doesn't have a strong arm. Not sure where all this hype came from, but Riley Leonard is not a 1st round NFL. draft pick.

RL was terrible. Any QB can inflate completion % by throwing 2/3 yard passes. You need a deep threat & big arm to keep defenses honest. I don’t want see that Duke player again. Empty the bench.

 

[notredamerises23]

@NDinNJ
The QB position got ruined under Kelly by allowing Book to stay on for 17 years.
Then I said over the prevuous two years that playing this portal game is ridiculously stupid.
Freemqm might be doing better than Kelly in some areas but he's definitely mimicking BK on how to choose and stay with the wrong QB.

I also said two years ago the best QB on the roster was Angeli.
#1 he was the only QB at the time with real QB height.
#2 his running ability or lack of will make us a better team because he will throw the ball down the field.
#3 This whole thing is so irritating...I can't help but think NIL is a force in this.

I knew you couldn’t go a post or two without blaming Kelly somehow lol

 

[Get Nasty]

I think if we played Texas or Georgia we would find out the defense is not championship caliber. Playoff caliber perhaps.

A&M showed our young lbs got a little confused in coverage with split outs. NIU exploited it.

A&M showed we don't have a SDE, NIU exploited it. They pulled 2 linemen to the Strong side over and over and over and over again, and golden never adjusted. Burnham is not a SDE, he's a WDE but we have 2 better players there. THE SDE needs to push or hold off the RT into the pulling linemen to shrink the hole and room they have to pull and block. Instead, he was getting pushed back letting NIU linemen have a hole and free run at our LBs. We had the issue some last year with JJB because he was more pass rusher than run stuffer, but he was better than Burnham or Oben.

Our secondary is as good as it gets, and golden is smart enough to confuse a QB. NIU found a weakness, and Golden, freeman had no adjustment for it. The fact the staff thought oben and burnham could hold up at SDE is alarming, and had no plan B if they get destroyed, like they have been. Vernon, young, or someone needs to hold up the edge there. We aren't getting any pass rush so they can do what everyone else does and actually have a big strong SDE.

 

[echowaker]

Would love to have Jack Coan this year.

 

[NDinNJ]

My Lord, have you watched the first two games of the season?

and last years bowl game.

Angeli: 15-19 232 yards 78.9% average yards per pass: 12.2. 3 TD's 0 INT Longest pass play 55 yards 2 sacks 233.6 rating 96.1 QBR.

How they are not giving Angeli a chance boggles my mind.

 

[Get Nasty]

and last years bowl game.

Angeli: 15-19 232 yards 78.9% average yards per pass: 12.2. 3 TD's 0 INT Longest pass play 55 yards 2 sacks 233.6 rating 96.1 QBR.

How they are not giving Angeli a chance boggles my mind.

This is no longer amateur athletics, these are paid professionals now. The best player will not always play, the player that has the biggest contract will get the PT and the ship will sink with them. Riley is NDs highest paid player by far, that's why he's playing.

 

[NDinNJ]

This is no longer amateur athletics, these are paid professionals now. The best player will not always play, the player that has the biggest contract will get the PT and the ship will sink with them. Riley is NDs highest paid player by far, that's why he's playing.

and the ND collective could have saved that money they gave Leonard and pushed it toward sealing Deuce Knights commitment.

 

[tbonesays]

Would love to have Jack Coan this year.

To play SDE?

 

[FightingIrish44]

Would love to have Jack Coan this year.

As a backup. Then again, maybe you’re right. I think his lack of mobility would be a huge detriment to this offense with this OL though. More realistically, it would have been awesome to have him back for a sixth year in 2022. ND probably beats Marshall and Stanford. Maybe their first major bowl since 1993.

 

[Patrirish]

as stated in the first my first coaching criticism...
Either they are afraid of failure just because or they know Riley can't make those throws.

Either way it is wrong.

Moreover are you also suggesting that someone who has enough between the ears to attend Duke and now our beloved that he can't be trusted to call an audible and change the play?

Your whole response is a fitting ND type performance kind of response.

You’re confusing the play call with the ability to execute the play called.

An audible might not be a better play

Did you ever consider that?

 

[88ND]

Riley Leonard's numbers weren't that great at Duke, barely a 60% completion rate, 12 interceptions to 24 TD's, and 7 yards per pass tells you he doesn't have a strong arm. Not sure where all this hype came from, but Riley Leonard is not a 1st round NFL. draft pick.

He's not an NFL QB..period. I don't think he is practice squad material. I am not being malicious here but his arm is weaker than Book, Hartman, Coan, Buchner...he might be about the same strength as Pyne. It's really bad. Might be a great kid but sonce the stupid NIL came calling I am no longer using any kid gloves for this nonsense.
They want to cash in on BS NIL money for being average at best...then they can take getting called out on reality of not being any good!

 

[88ND]

You’re confusing the play call with the ability to execute the play called.

An audible might not be a better play

Did you ever consider that?

either you can't comprehend or just simply ignorant to it.

Ready?
coaches either won't give him longer throws because they are afraid of failure...
coaches won't give him long throws because he can't make them...

Either way it's wrong.

He wound up...stepped into that deep throw..you do realize the ball traveled about 38 yards? Maybe 40 yards with the right to left angle ...

If that's all he's got then no wonder they're afraid to call any long passing play.

BUT....

WTH is the real problem here...

Why on earth is he starting? If that's the best we have at our beloved then this program is a joke.
If the coaches are wrong in evaluation ...we have seen that fish before. BK wrote the book on picking the wrong QB.


NO matter what the QB situation is pathetic and as I said before relying on other team's table scraps is an absurd tactic to be a good team.
BE BETTER THAN THIS and recruit your very own QB that can play the position well.

We might have one on the roster in Angeli but as long as Riley is getting paid big bucks we will never know.

Show me proof that NIL is not swaying coaching decisions!

Bet ya can't