Aaron Judge

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

I was just reading Aaron Judge's Wikipedia page. I didn't realize he played TE in HS football and was recruited by ND (and by UCLA and Stanford) to play that position in college.

Judge chose to stick with baseball. He might have made a great TE, but I'd have to say he made the right choice.

Happy to see a new HR record being set by someone who is not juiced. Way to go, Aaron. Good for you.

 

[Golson5]

I was just reading Aaron Judge's Wikipedia page. I didn't realize he played TE in HS football and was recruited by ND (and by UCLA and Stanford) to play that position in college.

Judge chose to stick with baseball. He might have made a great TE, but I'd have to say he made the right choice.

Happy to see a new HR record being set by someone who is not juiced. Way to go, Aaron. Good for you.

1. He doesn't have the home run record. Bonds does.

2. How do you know he's not juiced?

 

[echowaker]

I was just reading Aaron Judge's Wikipedia page. I didn't realize he played TE in HS football and was recruited by ND (and by UCLA and Stanford) to play that position in college.

Judge chose to stick with baseball. He might have made a great TE, but I'd have to say he made the right choice.

Happy to see a new HR record being set by someone who is not juiced. Way to go, Aaron. Good for you.

Being " juiced" never aided anyone's ability to hit a baseball. Such hypocrisy in baseball. The most blatant " cheater " in baseball history is beloved and in the Hall of Fame, Gaylord Perry. He even wrote a book about how he cheated.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

1. He doesn't have the home run record. Bonds does.

2. How do you know he's not juiced?

You can believe what you want about Bonds. He was a cheater.

And Judge how holds the American League single season HR record.

Players get tested now. I suppose it is possible Judge is taking PEDs, but I think it is quite unlikely. He is 6'7" and weighs 282 lbs. He doesn't need PEDs. There is no doubt, on the other hand, that Bonds was juiced.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Being " juiced" never aided anyone's ability to hit a baseball. Such hypocrisy in baseball. The most blatant " cheater " in baseball history is beloved and in the Hall of Fame, Gaylord Perry. He even wrote a book about how he cheated.

That's simply not true. While steroids may not have aided Bonds' ability to hit a baseball for average, being juiced certainly aided Bonds strength and ability to hit the baseball for distance. Before he started taking steroids Bonds was a 30 HR guy. After he started taking them he was regularly hitting 45-50 HRs, and of course he hit 73 in 2001. If you think he could have done that without PEDs, you are delusional. And steroids improved his recovery times. The evidence is overwhelming that PEDs aided Bonds ability to become a home run hitter.

Bonds was a great player without taking PEDs, and very likely would have been a HOF player without ever taking them. Is there hypocrisy in keeping him out of the HOF? Maybe. But I don't see him (or Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa or Roger Clemens) getting voted into the HOF any time soon.

 

[Quest4Twelve]

That's simply not true. While steroids may not have aided Bonds' ability to hit a baseball for average, being juiced certainly aided Bonds strength and ability to hit the baseball for distance. Before he started taking steroids Bonds was a 30 HR guy. After he started taking them he was regularly hitting 45-50 HRs, and of course he hit 73 in 2001. If you think he could have done that without PEDs, you are delusional. And steroids improved his recovery times. The evidence is overwhelming that PEDs aided Bonds ability to become a home run hitter.

Bonds was a great player without taking PEDs, and very likely would have been a HOF player without ever taking them. Is there hypocrisy in keeping him out of the HOF? Maybe. But I don't see him (or Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa or Roger Clemens) getting voted into the HOF any time soon.

You are just flat out wrong. I'm not advocating either way, however to say PEDs helped hit the baseball further is just wrong. So he would've had 400ft dingers versus 450ft?? PEDs allowed them to recover quicker and play more games and body at peak health. It had nothing to do with his hand/eye coordination.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

You are just flat out wrong. I'm not advocating either way, however to say PEDs helped hit the baseball further is just wrong. So he would've had 400ft dingers versus 450ft?? PEDs allowed them to recover quicker and play more games and body at peak health. It had nothing to do with his hand/eye coordination.

No, you are just flat out wrong. Aside from faster recovery times, steroids increase muscle mass. Putting on muscle mass helps increase bat speed. Increased bat speed means a hit ball will travel farther. Balls that are going to the warning track (or otherwise staying in the park) are now leaving the ballpark. It is simple physics. I agree that Bonds hand/eye coordination was elite without PEDs, but to argue PEDs didn't help him hit more home runs is just foolhardy. The evidence is there whether his apologists want to deny it or not.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

“He should be revered for being the actual single-season home run champ,” Roger Maris Jr. said Wednesday night after his father’s mark was matched by Judge. “I think baseball needs to look at the records and I think baseball should do something.”

I agree 💯%

 

[Golson5]

You can believe what you want about Bonds. He was a cheater.

And Judge how holds the American League single season HR record.

Players get tested now. I suppose it is possible Judge is taking PEDs, but I think it is quite unlikely. He is 6'7" and weighs 282 lbs. He doesn't need PEDs. There is no doubt, on the other hand, that Bonds was juiced.

Bonds did cheat

Aaron Judge may or may not be cheating. Tests are pretty easily beatable

Bonds is baseballs single season home run leader

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Bonds did cheat

Aaron Judge may or may not be cheating. Tests are pretty easily beatable

Bonds is baseballs single season home run leader

Yes, Bonds still holds MLB's single-season and career HR records, however tainted those records might be.

And yes, PED tests are beatable, though I don't believe they are "easily" beatable anymore. That said, I have never heard anyone suggest or even speculate that Aaron Judge is using PEDs. You may be the first.

 

[echowaker]

That's simply not true. While steroids may not have aided Bonds' ability to hit a baseball for average, being juiced certainly aided Bonds strength and ability to hit the baseball for distance. Before he started taking steroids Bonds was a 30 HR guy. After he started taking them he was regularly hitting 45-50 HRs, and of course he hit 73 in 2001. If you think he could have done that without PEDs, you are delusional. And steroids improved his recovery times. The evidence is overwhelming that PEDs aided Bonds ability to become a home run hitter.

Bonds was a great player without taking PEDs, and very likely would have been a HOF player without ever taking them. Is there hypocrisy in keeping him out of the HOF? Maybe. But I don't see him (or Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa or Roger Clemens) getting voted into the HOF any time soon.

I don't think many if any of the homeruns hit by Bonds, Sosa or Mcgwire just made it to the first row of the bleachers. MLB consciously chose to look the other way when those 3 basically brought baseball back. They shouldn't be penalized for the HOF in my opinion especially when Gaylord Perry is in.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

I don't think many if any of the homeruns hit by Bonds, Sosa or Mcgwire just made it to the first row of the bleachers. MLB consciously chose to look the other way when those 3 basically brought baseball back. They shouldn't be penalized for the HOF in my opinion especially when Gaylord Perry is in.

Yeah but I'm pretty sure corking the bat sure helped. Couple that we PEDs and you get Sosa, Bonds and Mcquire. They all cheated the game and non of them belong in the HOF. H Aaron is the HR king and A Judge is the single season king, IMHO. Everyone is entitled to accept what they will

 

[Golson5]

Yes, Bonds still holds MLB's single-season and career HR records, however tainted those records might be.

And yes, PED tests are beatable, though I don't believe they are "easily" beatable anymore. That said, I have never heard anyone suggest or even speculate that Aaron Judge is using PEDs. You may be the first.

I never said he was or wasn't.

Just said it is possible just like any other player. We have no clue

 

[Golson5]

Yeah but I'm pretty sure corking the bat sure helped. Couple that we PEDs and you get Sosa, Bonds and Mcquire. They all cheated the game and non of them belong in the HOF. H Aaron is the HR king and A Judge is the single season king, IMHO. Everyone is entitled to accept what they will

No evidence Bonds or Mcgwire corked their bats. PEDs yes.

If they take all the players back in the 70s and 80s who were hopped up on amphetamines out than Id agree with you. And Gaylord Perry. And David Ortiz

 

[4-4-3]

That's simply not true. While steroids may not have aided Bonds' ability to hit a baseball for average, being juiced certainly aided Bonds strength and ability to hit the baseball for distance. Before he started taking steroids Bonds was a 30 HR guy. After he started taking them he was regularly hitting 45-50 HRs, and of course he hit 73 in 2001. If you think he could have done that without PEDs, you are delusional. And steroids improved his recovery times. The evidence is overwhelming that PEDs aided Bonds ability to become a home run hitter.

Bonds was a great player without taking PEDs, and very likely would have been a HOF player without ever taking them. Is there hypocrisy in keeping him out of the HOF? Maybe. But I don't see him (or Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa or Roger Clemens) getting voted into the HOF any time soon.

Bonds: Before and After

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

I never said he was or wasn't.

Just said it is possible just like any other player. We have no clue

At the end of the day it is only between Judge and his Maker as to whether he ever used PEDs. But unlike Bonds, there is no physical evidence he has, and I have never heard even a whisper about Judge using them. So I cannot agree we have "no clue."

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

I don't think many if any of the homeruns hit by Bonds, Sosa or Mcgwire just made it to the first row of the bleachers. MLB consciously chose to look the other way when those 3 basically brought baseball back. They shouldn't be penalized for the HOF in my opinion especially when Gaylord Perry is in.

No serious student of baseball questions whether PEDs increased Bond's, McGwire's or Sosa's home run totals. Even McGwire--the only one of the three who has been honest about it--admits that PEDs were a significant aid to him. I don't disagree with you that MLB stuck its head in the sand and looked the other way when McGwire and Sosa had their epic home run chase during the summer of 1998, making its later about face on the whole PED issue look rather hypocritical. Bonds saw what was going on with McGwire and Sosa and decided the next season that if they could do it, then he would too. And because he was a better player than them, he took juicing to a different level. I guess the difference was that McGwire and Sosa were both likeable guys; Bonds, on the other hand, was a complete pr*&k that nobody liked.

I think a strong argument can be made by both Bonds and Clemens that their career numbers justify induction in the HOF even when you discount the boost in their numbers that resulted from the use of PEDs. But both of them have hurt their cases by steadfastly denying they used PEDs, and on top of that being rather surly about it. I am not suggesting that "likeability" should be a criterion for induction in the HOF--Ty Cobb wouldn't be in it if it was--but I am simply stating the obvious. It wouldn't offend me if Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens were inducted in the HOF--they were great players even without PEDs--but I don't see it happening any time soon, if ever.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Bonds: Before and After

I saw BB play a few times when he was playing AAA ball. He was a skinny kid. He later became a hulking guy. Some of that transformation was just the aging process, but there is no question but that PEDs helped Mother Nature along.

 

[Irishjohn68]

Hank Aaron is the home run king, Aaron Judge is the single season king.

 

[beachcardinal]

IMO the single season non steroid leader is still Ruth. He did it in 154 games, the length of the season at the time. Maris and Judge needed the 162-game season to do it. If the season had ended at 154, they would not have made it.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

IMO the single season non steroid leader is still Ruth. He did it in 154 games, the length of the season at the time. Maris and Judge needed the 162-game season to do it. If the season had ended at 154, they would not have made it.

Fair point

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

IMO the single season non steroid leader is still Ruth. He did it in 154 games, the length of the season at the time. Maris and Judge needed the 162-game season to do it. If the season had ended at 154, they would not have made it.

Though Ruth hit 60 in fewer games, he also had some significant advantages working to his favor. One, there were only 8 teams in the American League, so he saw the same pitchers many times, and was familiar with their pitching repertoire. Two, pitching in those days was much different. You basically had starters throwing almost an entire game. There were no long relievers, set up men, 7th inning specialist, 8th inning specialist, left and right-handed specialists, and closers. In today's game, Judge is facing much better pitchers, and many more specialists. Three, and this may be the biggest difference of all, many of the best (or at least really good) players in the game were in the Negro League, because the color barrier was still very much alive and they weren't allowed to play MLB baseball. So while Ruth faced some good pitchers, he certainly didn't face those that weren't allowed to play MLB because of their race. So it is hard to compare eras. Let's honor Judge's record for the incredible accomplishment it is.

 

[Pennick4]

Home run record and MLB are as irrelevant as an ND88 post. 😁

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Though Ruth hit 60 in fewer games, he also had some other significant advantages working to his favor. One, there were only 8 teams in the American League, so he saw the same pitchers many times, and was able to adjust to their pitching repertoire. Two, pitching in those days was much different. You basically had starters throwing almost an entire game. There were no long relievers, set up men, left and right-handed specialists, and closers. In today's game, Judge is facing much better pitchers, and many more specialists. Three, and this may be the biggest difference, many of the best players in the game were in the Negro League, because the color barrier was still very much alive and they weren't allowed to play MLB baseball. So while Ruth faced some of the best pitchers in the game, he certainly didn't see many of them. So it is hard to compare eras. Let's honor Judge's record for the incredible accomplishment it is.

Disagree that pitching is better now. While I get your point on relief pitchers; through expansion to 30 teams, the dilution of talent is real. There are many many pitchers today who would not have even made the major leagues of yester year. Hell, I'm 65 and I can see it

 

[Golson5]

Disagree that pitching is better now. While I get your point on relieve pitchers; through expansion to 30 teams, tge dilution of talent is real. There are many many pitchers today who would not have even made the major leagues of yester year. Hell, I'm 65 and I can see it

Really?

Evolution of the athlete and training. Guys are bigger faster stronger and more athletic now that ever. Guys throw way harder than they did years ago. And have more movement on their pitches.

People evolve.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Really?

Evolution of the athlete and training. Guys are bigger faster stronger and more athletic now that ever. Guys throw way harder than they did years ago. And have more movement on their pitches.

People evolve.

Oh sure, today's players are better athletes, but they are not better baseball players, and that's the difference. Example, the shift wouldn't have lasted a week in the 50's, 60's, 70's or 80's.

 

[Golson5]

Oh sure, today's players are better athletes, but they are not better baseball players, and that's the difference. Example, the shift wouldn't have lasted a week in the 50's, 60's, 70's or 80's.

Being bigger faster stronger more athletic makes them better baseball players. If you can run faster, hit further, and throw harder than someone you are going to be a better baseball player.

The balls that these fielders get to now and the plays they can make, they never could have made them before like they do now. It's just normal to rob homeruns, making running and diving catches, throw runners out from your knees. It helps being faster and having a cannon fielding and hitting

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Really?

Evolution of the athlete and training. Guys are bigger faster stronger and more athletic now that ever. Guys throw way harder than they did years ago. And have more movement on their pitches.

People evolve.

True, today pitchers are throwing much harder. I am pushing 70 years old. I pitched in HS, and could throw really hard. My fastball was timed in the 92-93 mph range when I was a senior. That was an elite FB in those days. Now you have HS kids that can throw 100 mph, and some harder. Part of that is technology related; when I had my fastball timed (I think with a JUGS gun), the measurement was taken pretty close to home plate. The current MLB Statcast system measures velocity as the ball leaves the pitcher's hand, resulting in higher numbers.

I will agree with DieHard, though, that modern day pitching isn't necessarily resulting in better pitching. I am astonished how many kids are having arm and elbow problems today. Tommy John surgeries are routinely being done on HS kids. I think they are being encouraged to throw too hard too young, because today's game is all about how hard you can throw it or how far you can hit it. Statcast, with exit velocities and launch angles, contributes to that problem. I hate all the swing and miss in today's game.

Now get off my lawn.

 

[bizzybecknd]

You are just flat out wrong. I'm not advocating either way, however to say PEDs helped hit the baseball further is just wrong. So he would've had 400ft dingers versus 450ft?? PEDs allowed them to recover quicker and play more games and body at peak health. It had nothing to do with his hand/eye coordination.

I’m torn on this (either way bonds belongs in HOF) but why are the Top 3 home run kings proven steroid users?? Coincidence?

 

[Irishjohn68]

IMO the single season non steroid leader is still Ruth. He did it in 154 games, the length of the season at the time. Maris and Judge needed the 162-game season to do it. If the season had ended at 154, they would not have made it.

What if Judge hit 62 in say 153 games then went on to hit 3 more. Is Ruth still king?

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Being bigger faster stronger more athletic makes them better baseball players. If you can run faster, hit further, and throw harder than someone you are going to be a better baseball player.

The balls that these fielders get to now and the plays they can make, they never could have made them before like they do now. It's just normal to rob homeruns, making running and diving catches, throw runners out from your knees. It helps being faster and having a cannon fielding and hitting

I believe this to be completely wrong.

 

[Golson5]

I believe this to be completely wrong.

Living in the past then

 

[Irishjohn68]

I’m torn on this (either way bonds belongs in HOF) but why are the Top 3 home run kings proven steroid users?? Coincidence?

Hank Aaron and Ruth are not proven steroid users.

 

[BGI User 1596]

Hank Aaron and Ruth are not proven steroid users.

Shoeless Joe didn’t need them!

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Living in the past then

No not at all. I've been flowing baseball for 60 years, I know exactly what I see. Your entitled to your opinion, since that is all it is; as is mine

 

[beachcardinal]

What if Judge hit 62 in say 153 games then went on to hit 3 more. Is Ruth still king?

Nope. Think of the NFL. If you want to tell how players succeeded, you can't use total yards in a 10 game season and compare it to yards gained if a 16-game season for running backs.

 

[beachcardinal]

Nope. Think of the NFL. If you want to tell how players succeeded, you can't use total yards in a 10 game season and compare it to yards gained if a 16-game season for running backs.

 

[echowaker]

No serious student of baseball questions whether PEDs increased Bond's, McGwire's or Sosa's home run totals. Even McGwire--the only one of the three who has been honest about it--admits that PEDs were a significant aid to him. I don't disagree with you that MLB stuck its head in the sand and looked the other way when McGwire and Sosa had their epic home run chase during the summer of 1998, making its later about face on the whole PED issue look rather hypocritical. Bonds saw what was going on with McGwire and Sosa and decided the next season that if they could do it, then he would too. And because he was a better player than them, he took juicing to a different level. I guess the difference was that McGwire and Sosa were both likeable guys; Bonds, on the other hand, was a complete pr*&k that nobody liked.

I think a strong argument can be made by both Bonds and Clemens that their career numbers justify induction in the HOF even when you discount the boost in their numbers that resulted from the use of PEDs. But both of them have hurt their cases by steadfastly denying they used PEDs, and on top of that being rather surly about it. I am not suggesting that "likeability" should be a criterion for induction in the HOF--Ty Cobb wouldn't be in it if it was--but I am simply stating the obvious. It wouldn't offend me if Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens were inducted in the HOF--they were great players even without PEDs--but I don't see it happening any time soon, if ever.

What's your stance on Gaylord Perry's blatant cheating and basically mocking the game by doing it in every game he pitched ?

 

[Golson5]

No not at all. I've been flowing baseball for 60 years, I know exactly what I see. Your entitled to your opinion, since that is all it is; as is mine

Humans evolving isn't opinion.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Humans evolving isn't opinion.

Got nothing to do with evolution; has everything to do with knowing the game. We can just leave it at that. Clearly we're not on the same page, and just don't agree