2008 Recruiting Class

[NotreDame du Lac]

The topic of recruiting is a major focus of many posts. Many people think we cannot recruit better given academic requirements. The facts say otherwise. In 2008, Notre dame had the #2 overall recruiting class according to rivals.com. The only team in the nation with a slightly better class was Alabama. Bama also had 10 more scholarship offers that year so ND had a more quality class with 5 star talent. 2011 we were #10. Not bad. 2013 we were #3, which was fantastic. 2020 we are #22. That's unacceptable.

I say the recruiting academic standards excuse is bull. Weis was able to recruit at an elite level and brought in kids like Jimmy Clausen, Michael Floyd, Manti Teo, etc. They were able to get in to Notre Dame despite the academic requirements. Weis's recruiting is a major reason for BK's 2012 success. Weis could not coach a team. That's besides the point. The point is we CAN recruit at the same level as Bama.

Brian Kelly is the coach of the year, again. He is a team coach. He is a winner. He creates a culture of winners. There are those that don't like him as a coach. I think they're fools. They'd be beside themselves if we had an inept coach like Harbaugh or Helton. There are about 10 historic football programs that have been a disaster for a decade or longer because they can't find a good coach regardless the $9 million they may pay some savior coach.

The knock on BK should be recruiting. We have done everything to get to where we are, but the lack of elite talent is the real issue. It's been evident for years. We lose the big games because we cannot match up with elite talent. You can only coach so well. My premise in writing this is simply that ND will never win a title if we don't recruit better. I don't understand why there isn't tremendous pressure on BK to recruit better. This should be his sole focus for 2021. We need an elite, top 5 class for the next 2-3 years. If we cannot do that, we will not win a title in the BK era. That is a fact.

 

[Golson5]

The topic of recruiting is a major focus of many posts. Many people think we cannot recruit better given academic requirements. The facts say otherwise. In 2008, Notre dame had the #2 overall recruiting class according to rivals.com. The only team in the nation with a slightly better class was Alabama. Bama also had 10 more scholarship offers that year so ND had a more quality class with 5 star talent. 2011 we were #10. Not bad. 2013 we were #3, which was fantastic. 2020 we are #22. That's unacceptable.

I say the recruiting academic standards excuse is bull. Weis was able to recruit at an elite level and brought in kids like Jimmy Clausen, Michael Floyd, Manti Teo, etc. They were able to get in to Notre Dame despite the academic requirements. Weis's recruiting is a major reason for BK's 2012 success. Weis could not coach a team. That's besides the point. The point is we CAN recruit at the same level as Bama.

Brian Kelly is the coach of the year, again. He is a team coach. He is a winner. He creates a culture of winners. There are those that don't like him as a coach. I think they're fools. They'd be beside themselves if we had an inept coach like Harbaugh or Helton. There are about 10 historic football programs that have been a disaster for a decade or longer because they can't find a good coach regardless the $9 million they may pay some savior coach.

The knock on BK should be recruiting. We have done everything to get to where we are, but the lack of elite talent is the real issue. It's been evident for years. We lose the big games because we cannot match up with elite talent. You can only coach so well. My premise in writing this is simply that ND will never win a title if we don't recruit better. I don't understand why there isn't tremendous pressure on BK to recruit better. This should be his sole focus for 2021. We need an elite, top 5 class for the next 2-3 years. If we cannot do that, we will not win a title in the BK era. That is a fact.

Class should never have been ranked 2.

 

[echowaker]

The topic of recruiting is a major focus of many posts. Many people think we cannot recruit better given academic requirements. The facts say otherwise. In 2008, Notre dame had the #2 overall recruiting class according to rivals.com. The only team in the nation with a slightly better class was Alabama. Bama also had 10 more scholarship offers that year so ND had a more quality class with 5 star talent. 2011 we were #10. Not bad. 2013 we were #3, which was fantastic. 2020 we are #22. That's unacceptable.

I say the recruiting academic standards excuse is bull. Weis was able to recruit at an elite level and brought in kids like Jimmy Clausen, Michael Floyd, Manti Teo, etc. They were able to get in to Notre Dame despite the academic requirements. Weis's recruiting is a major reason for BK's 2012 success. Weis could not coach a team. That's besides the point. The point is we CAN recruit at the same level as Bama.

Brian Kelly is the coach of the year, again. He is a team coach. He is a winner. He creates a culture of winners. There are those that don't like him as a coach. I think they're fools. They'd be beside themselves if we had an inept coach like Harbaugh or Helton. There are about 10 historic football programs that have been a disaster for a decade or longer because they can't find a good coach regardless the $9 million they may pay some savior coach.

The knock on BK should be recruiting. We have done everything to get to where we are, but the lack of elite talent is the real issue. It's been evident for years. We lose the big games because we cannot match up with elite talent. You can only coach so well. My premise in writing this is simply that ND will never win a title if we don't recruit better. I don't understand why there isn't tremendous pressure on BK to recruit better. This should be his sole focus for 2021. We need an elite, top 5 class for the next 2-3 years. If we cannot do that, we will not win a title in the BK era. That is a fact.

It's not about finding guys who qualify, its about finding quality guys who can get in and embrace the challenges that confront them once they do get in. ND is not the be all end all goal for every player or coach. I'd say its highly unlikely ND does win a championship during the BK era,or the next guys,or the guy after that. I don't see it happening without a dramatic shift in philosophy by the Administration when it comes to athletics,particularly football.

 

[SIhoosier26]

Class should never have been ranked 2.

Disagree, as a lot of those players had great college careers and played/play in the NFL. They also had a major impact in getting us into the title game in 2012.

Either way it doesn't even matter, we got a bunch of players that everyone wanted in that class. Weis was a lot of things but he proved that you could still pull top notch recruits to Notre Dame, this was much needed after the Tyrone Willingham debacle.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Disagree, as a lot of those players had great college careers and played/play in the NFL. They also had a major impact in getting us into the title game in 2012.

Either way it doesn't even matter, we got a bunch of players that everyone wanted in that class. Weis was a lot of things but he proved that you could still pull top notch recruits to Notre Dame, this was much needed after the Tyrone Willingham debacle.

The 2021 class is acceptable IF we improve upon it in 2022. 2020 was one of our worst rated classes, ever. If 2022 isn't a top 5 class forget a championship in the next 5 years.

 

[tbonesays]

Disagree, as a lot of those players had great college careers and played/play in the NFL. They also had a major impact in getting us into the title game in 2012.

Either way it doesn't even matter, we got a bunch of players that everyone wanted in that class. Weis was a lot of things but he proved that you could still pull top notch recruits to Notre Dame, this was much needed after the Tyrone Willingham debacle.

I think Weis and Willingham were both outliers that are unlikely to be repeated. CW's Superbowl Ring act brought in a lot of athletes that seemed more like a USC profile. ND is unlikely to try to the former NFL route again so that's not going to happen.

Also TW seemed to recruit nobody at one point. In the social media era this will get called out immediately.

 

[TDIrish27]

TW was in a good friend of mine's living room recruiting his son. He came in with Bob Simmons .

My buddy still says after all these years he was the worst HC that came in. It was like he was doing his son a favor recruiting him for Notre Dame. He destroyed my 5 years of propaganda in less than an hour.

As an aside note-----the kid is still in the NFL.

 

[shabak]

The topic of recruiting is a major focus of many posts. Many people think we cannot recruit better given academic requirements. The facts say otherwise. In 2008, Notre dame had the #2 overall recruiting class according to rivals.com. The only team in the nation with a slightly better class was Alabama. Bama also had 10 more scholarship offers that year so ND had a more quality class with 5 star talent. 2011 we were #10. Not bad. 2013 we were #3, which was fantastic. 2020 we are #22. That's unacceptable.

I say the recruiting academic standards excuse is bull. Weis was able to recruit at an elite level and brought in kids like Jimmy Clausen, Michael Floyd, Manti Teo, etc. They were able to get in to Notre Dame despite the academic requirements. Weis's recruiting is a major reason for BK's 2012 success. Weis could not coach a team. That's besides the point. The point is we CAN recruit at the same level as Bama.

Brian Kelly is the coach of the year, again. He is a team coach. He is a winner. He creates a culture of winners. There are those that don't like him as a coach. I think they're fools. They'd be beside themselves if we had an inept coach like Harbaugh or Helton. There are about 10 historic football programs that have been a disaster for a decade or longer because they can't find a good coach regardless the $9 million they may pay some savior coach.

The knock on BK should be recruiting. We have done everything to get to where we are, but the lack of elite talent is the real issue. It's been evident for years. We lose the big games because we cannot match up with elite talent. You can only coach so well. My premise in writing this is simply that ND will never win a title if we don't recruit better. I don't understand why there isn't tremendous pressure on BK to recruit better. This should be his sole focus for 2021. We need an elite, top 5 class for the next 2-3 years. If we cannot do that, we will not win a title in the BK era. That is a fact.

We wait too long to offer elite players.

 

[SIhoosier26]

We wait too long to offer elite players.

And we have a head coach that rarely even talks to recruits. Kelly is a lot of things but elite recruiter he is not.

 

[Zorich 88]

The topic of recruiting is a major focus of many posts. Many people think we cannot recruit better given academic requirements. The facts say otherwise. In 2008, Notre dame had the #2 overall recruiting class according to rivals.com. The only team in the nation with a slightly better class was Alabama. Bama also had 10 more scholarship offers that year so ND had a more quality class with 5 star talent. 2011 we were #10. Not bad. 2013 we were #3, which was fantastic. 2020 we are #22. That's unacceptable.

I say the recruiting academic standards excuse is bull. Weis was able to recruit at an elite level and brought in kids like Jimmy Clausen, Michael Floyd, Manti Teo, etc. They were able to get in to Notre Dame despite the academic requirements. Weis's recruiting is a major reason for BK's 2012 success. Weis could not coach a team. That's besides the point. The point is we CAN recruit at the same level as Bama.

Brian Kelly is the coach of the year, again. He is a team coach. He is a winner. He creates a culture of winners. There are those that don't like him as a coach. I think they're fools. They'd be beside themselves if we had an inept coach like Harbaugh or Helton. There are about 10 historic football programs that have been a disaster for a decade or longer because they can't find a good coach regardless the $9 million they may pay some savior coach.

The knock on BK should be recruiting. We have done everything to get to where we are, but the lack of elite talent is the real issue. It's been evident for years. We lose the big games because we cannot match up with elite talent. You can only coach so well. My premise in writing this is simply that ND will never win a title if we don't recruit better. I don't understand why there isn't tremendous pressure on BK to recruit better. This should be his sole focus for 2021. We need an elite, top 5 class for the next 2-3 years. If we cannot do that, we will not win a title in the BK era. That is a fact.

I can appreciate the point you are trying to make. However, you continue to reference 2008.
Good article breakdown of that class

Notre Dame Football: Looking Back at the Class of 2008

When a high school football player signs his letter of intent to attend the university of his choice, he does not anticipate losing 21 games in his college career...

www.google.com

No one should blame Kelly for not getting guys like Trevor Lawrence or DeVonte Smith. Notre Dame is not appealing to that level of player. That is just the brutal truth.
Championships and Heisman’s. Two things ND lacks. ND will have to get lucky the way LSU did with JB.

 

[SIhoosier26]

No one should blame Kelly for not getting guys like Trevor Lawrence or DeVonte Smith. Notre Dame is not appealing to that level of player.

You mean good ones?

Championships and Heisman’s. Two things ND lacks.

What?

 

[Golson5]

Disagree, as a lot of those players had great college careers and played/play in the NFL. They also had a major impact in getting us into the title game in 2012.

Either way it doesn't even matter, we got a bunch of players that everyone wanted in that class. Weis was a lot of things but he proved that you could still pull top notch recruits to Notre Dame, this was much needed after the Tyrone Willingham debacle.

He didn't recruit the lines. Recruiting was far behind what it was today. Some of those players got a ND bump. Was never a number 2 class imo

 

[Golson5]

The 2021 class is acceptable IF we improve upon it in 2022. 2020 was one of our worst rated classes, ever. If 2022 isn't a top 5 class forget a championship in the next 5 years.

2020 was a highly regarded class. 10th in avg player ranking. Guys like Mayer, Tyree, Mills, Botelho have already made an impact

 

[scubastevefl]

Probably is ND constantly recruits in the 8-12 range. That’s about where they finish on average.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

2020 was a highly regarded class. 10th in avg player ranking. Guys like Mayer, Tyree, Mills, Botelho have already made an impact

Rivals has 2020 ranked as one of our worst ever. #22.

 

[Zorich 88]

You mean good ones?


What?

over the past 20 years

 

[SIhoosier26]

Rivals has 2020 ranked as one of our worst ever. #22.

That's because we didn't take many recruits, as far as average star rating it was at 10. A few 3 star players would've moved us up 7 spots.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

That's because we didn't take many recruits, as far as average star rating it was at 10. A few 3 star players would've moved us up 7 spots.

Well, at the end of the day, it's not good enough to win it all. It's not about liking our kids or not. I love the guys we got. I just strongly believe we need about 5 5 star players in 3-4 consecutive classes to beat Bama. Even Ohio State, who out recruits us by a mile, got whipped because Bama still out recruits them.

College football is less about coaching and more about recruiting. Harbaugh cannot even put his team on the same field as Ohio State because they are so out recruited it's embarrassing. Just like New Mexico cannot play on the same field as Notre Dame.

 

[Zorich 88]

Well, at the end of the day, it's not good enough to win it all. It's not about liking our kids or not. I love the guys we got. I just strongly believe we need about 5 5 star players in 3-4 consecutive classes to beat Bama. Even Ohio State, who out recruits us by a mile, got whipped because Bama still out recruits them.

College football is less about coaching and more about recruiting. Harbaugh cannot even put his team on the same field as Ohio State because they are so out recruited it's embarrassing. Just like New Mexico cannot play on the same field as Notre Dame.

College football is less about coaching and more about recruiting. Harbaugh cannot even put his team on the same field as Ohio State because they are so out recruited it's embarrassing. Just like New Mexico cannot play on the same field as Notre Dame.

I could not disagree more with this.

It is still about coaching.

You could load a team with 5 star guys. However, it takes a coach to make them a team.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

College football is less about coaching and more about recruiting. Harbaugh cannot even put his team on the same field as Ohio State because they are so out recruited it's embarrassing. Just like New Mexico cannot play on the same field as Notre Dame.

I could not disagree more with this.

It is still about coaching.

You could load a team with 5 star guys. However, it takes a coach to make them a team.

Didn't say it wasn't about coaching. Just more about recruiting. Anyone of the top 5 coaches in America would have the same success at Bama as Saban. Therefore, to those top 5, because they're so good, it's more about recruiting.

 

[echowaker]

We wait too long to offer elite players.

That's because they have to clear admissions to be offered I believe.

 

[echowaker]

College football is less about coaching and more about recruiting. Harbaugh cannot even put his team on the same field as Ohio State because they are so out recruited it's embarrassing. Just like New Mexico cannot play on the same field as Notre Dame.

I could not disagree more with this.

It is still about coaching.

You could load a team with 5 star guys. However, it takes a coach to make them a team.

If Kelly and Saban switched sidelines Bama still wins easily.

 

[echowaker]

Didn't say it wasn't about coaching. Just more about recruiting. Anyone of the top 5 coaches in America would have the same success at Bama as Saban. Therefore, to those top 5, because they're so good, it's more about recruiting.

Bama wouldn't have those players without Saban. They were 13-13 I believe the two seasons prior to his arrival.

 

[echowaker]

Didn't say it wasn't about coaching. Just more about recruiting. Anyone of the top 5 coaches in America would have the same success at Bama as Saban. Therefore, to those top 5, because they're so good, it's more about recruiting.

Who's top 5 ? Saban ,Dabo then who ? I think 3-10 is pretty interchangeable.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

If Kelly and Saban switched sidelines Bama still wins easily.

Exactly.

 

[echowaker]

Exactly.

No one is saying ND has enough talent particularly at the skill positions to win a championship. They currently do not. Who knows maybe the Buchner,Colzie,Styles trio ends up being fantastic. Catch lightning in a bottle like LSU did. Personally I'd prefer to see Styles at corner, returning kicks and with an occasional cameo on offense. I think he's that dynamic.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

No one is saying ND has enough talent particularly at the skill positions to win a championship. They currently do not. Who knows maybe the Buchner,Colzie,Styles trio ends up being fantastic. Catch lightning in a bottle like LSU did. Personally I'd prefer to see Styles at corner, returning kicks and with an occasional cameo on offense. I think he's that dynamic.

Actually a lot of people think we should win a championship with our current players. There are a lot of people on this board that think BK needs to be fired. I'm glad you don't think that, but a lot of people (maybe even a majority) of the fan base thinks we should be doing better with our current roster. I think we've exceeded expectations.

Sadly, Buchner looked like crap at the Elite 11. I don't know much other than what I have read, but the "gurus" said he disappointed, was inaccurate, had a weak arm and performed as one of the worst invited.

 

[Golson5]

Actually a lot of people think we should win a championship with our current players. There are a lot of people on this board that think BK needs to be fired. I'm glad you don't think that, but a lot of people (maybe even a majority) of the fan base thinks we should be doing better with our current roster. I think we've exceeded expectations.

Sadly, Buchner looked like crap at the Elite 11. I don't know much other than what I have read, but the "gurus" said he disappointed, was inaccurate, had a weak arm and performed as one of the worst invited.

His arm is definitely not weak

 

[echowaker]

Actually a lot of people think we should win a championship with our current players. There are a lot of people on this board that think BK needs to be fired. I'm glad you don't think that, but a lot of people (maybe even a majority) of the fan base thinks we should be doing better with our current roster. I think we've exceeded expectations.

Sadly, Buchner looked like crap at the Elite 11. I don't know much other than what I have read, but the "gurus" said he disappointed, was inaccurate, had a weak arm and performed as one of the worst invited.

What happened at camps like that are meaningless in my opinion.

 

[tbonesays]

College football is less about coaching and more about recruiting. Harbaugh cannot even put his team on the same field as Ohio State because they are so out recruited it's embarrassing. Just like New Mexico cannot play on the same field as Notre Dame.

I could not disagree more with this.

It is still about coaching.

You could load a team with 5 star guys. However, it takes a coach to make them a team.

If it was just about recruiting Texas A&M and Miami would have half of the recent titles.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

If it was just about recruiting Texas A&M and Miami would have half of the recent titles.

No way. Bama and Ohio State smash them both in recruiting. A&M has improved tremendously. Miami doesn’t recruit that well and they take the worst character kids.

 

[tbonesays]

No way. Bama and Ohio State smash them both in recruiting. A&M has improved tremendously. Miami doesn’t recruit that well and they take the worst character kids.

I somewhat grabbed those names out of a hat. There are known commodities of teams that out-win their recruiting ranking (Iowa) and visa-versa (UTs) but I haven't seen the chart in about 5 years.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Yes, we are also out playing our recruiting class.
Sadly, nothing is changing. Alabama already has commitments from 3 top ten recruits for 2022. The rich just get richer. We won’t even be close. Not even by a mile. So, nothing is changing. ND will not be able to compete on the field with Bama with 2022 recruits either. Until this changes, we are SOL.

 

[Golson5]

Yes, we are also out playing our recruiting class.
Sadly, nothing is changing. Alabama already has commitments from 3 top ten recruits for 2022. The rich just get richer. We won’t even be close. Not even by a mile. So, nothing is changing. ND will not be able to compete on the field with Bama with 2022 recruits either. Until this changes, we are SOL.

So is just about everyone else

 

[echowaker]

Yes, we are also out playing our recruiting class.
Sadly, nothing is changing. Alabama already has commitments from 3 top ten recruits for 2022. The rich just get richer. We won’t even be close. Not even by a mile. So, nothing is changing. ND will not be able to compete on the field with Bama with 2022 recruits either. Until this changes, we are SOL.

So what's your point ? Are you expecting things to be different ? The vast majority of those players are not interested in the challenges ND demands of their student athletes. We're both beating a dead horse. Under the current landscape things will not change. ND will continue to be good enough to make the playoff but to win it all they would need an awful amount of good fortune to overcome the large gap in talent. To just say " recruit better " is like saying just take aspirin for that tumor. It doesn't address the core of the problem.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

So what's your point ? Are you expecting things to be different ? The vast majority of those players are not interested in the challenges ND demands of their student athletes. We're both beating a dead horse. Under the current landscape things will not change. ND will continue to be good enough to make the playoff but to win it all they would need an awful amount of good fortune to overcome the large gap in talent. To just say " recruit better " is like saying just take aspirin for that tumor. It doesn't address the core of the problem.

I guess we are on the same page. I think the difference is I’m of the mindset that if there’s a will there’s a way. I agree nothing will change and that’s because I think it would be tremendously hard to break through this. I think it boils down to $$. $$ can do big things. I don’t have any solutions. I’m a big fan of ND the school and football is second to me. I never want to see them bend the rules. I lived on campus for three years while my wife attended ND, my kids were baptized in the basilica, and I visit campus 5-10 x’s a year to pray at the grotto. I’m an ND guy for various non-football reasons, but I do want to see football take the next step. Just hopeful we can bring in more academically capable kids that may have otherwise gone elsewhere. I feel like it’s possible, just unlikely. Paying the best recruiters is a start. I think tremendous pressure from the top to make recruiting the #1 priority can help. Guys like Freeman can make a difference. If he gets 1 more 5 star every year or 2-3 more 4 star players than we’d otherwise get, that could make a huge difference. It could be the difference between 31-14 and 31-28. If we can keep the score close, we have a chance. There has to be a priority to pay a lot of $$ to keep tremendous recruiters like Tony Alford with ND. Whatever it takes. If you pull 5 Star commits you get a hefty Christmas bonus. ND doesn’t lack the funds, but I’m not sure they care enough to be #1 vs #5 because the fans are going to spend $$ regardless of their on the field success.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

So is just about everyone else

It’s getting bad for football. I didn’t even watch the championship game. I know several people that couldn’t have cared less. They all said the same thing: I’m bored with watching Bama.

 

[Classic Irish]

So what's your point ? Are you expecting things to be different ? The vast majority of those players are not interested in the challenges ND demands of their student athletes. We're both beating a dead horse. Under the current landscape things will not change. ND will continue to be good enough to make the playoff but to win it all they would need an awful amount of good fortune to overcome the large gap in talent. To just say " recruit better " is like saying just take aspirin for that tumor. It doesn't address the core of the problem.

You have made this crucial point repeatedly. I don’t know why some posters find it so difficult to comprehend.

 

[tbonesays]

So what's your point ? Are you expecting things to be different ? The vast majority of those players are not interested in the challenges ND demands of their student athletes. We're both beating a dead horse. Under the current landscape things will not change. ND will continue to be good enough to make the playoff but to win it all they would need an awful amount of good fortune to overcome the large gap in talent. To just say " recruit better " is like saying just take aspirin for that tumor. It doesn't address the core of the problem.

I don't see a way out of this level, no upwards anyway. ND won't get a big recruiting bump without the new coach smell. You don't fire a 10 win coach so that is not happening. The only other way is if the BMDs back up the truck and try to outspend the SEC. That is not happening because certain ways to spend the money would be unseemly.

 

[echowaker]

I don't see a way out of this level, no upwards anyway. ND won't get a big recruiting bump without the new coach smell. You don't fire a 10 win coach so that is not happening. The only other way is if the BMDs back up the truck and try to outspend the SEC. That is not happening because certain ways to spend the money would be unseemly.

Correct. I don't see ND winning a championship anytime soon so I for one choose to enjoy the ride. 5 ten win seasons in the last 6 and two playoff appearances. The fans at about 120 schools or so would take that in a heartbeat.