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15 Days to Fall Practice

Telx1

Telx1

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May 13, 2012
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Looks like Fall practice will start Aug 7th. Can‘t get here soon enough To see answers start emerging to a lot of question marks. Anxious to see how the OL finally shakes out. I think with Madden’s arrival, this boils down to whether Rocco forces Zeke to the bench and Patterson back to center. Otherwise, I think we end up with Fisher Patterson Zeke Madden Lugg, left to right. Does Austin finally have an injury free season and deliver to what once was enormous potential? Who steps up to compliment Mayers and Davis and Austin? Does Kiser win the Rover position outright, or Shane, or ? Looks like Hart and Lewis at corner, but do Henderson and Riley force their way into the field? Who plays next to Hamilton at safety? Thought Spring practice would answer most these questions, but Covid limitations, injuries, and no reporter presence failed to provide much insight, and the Spring game even less so. Can’t get here soon enough!
 
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Wow already? Last winter in the North..it my dream after retirement is being an usher it not sure I can aty here till November lol. But I regress. Yes I'm very concerned it's the fall and we still have not decided on who's starting where on the OL. We had had a pretty raw OL one year under Heinstead that did pretty well but he had all the pieces in place in the spring. Madden is a brick wall but not sure hesya three let alone a five technique lineman. So no running zone blocks and really mixing up the play book. OL needs tine to gel. We won't have that luxury this yeat
 
irish4life9999 said:
Wow already? Last winter in the North..it my dream after retirement is being an usher it not sure I can aty here till November lol. But I regress. Yes I'm very concerned it's the fall and we still have not decided on who's starting where on the OL. We had had a pretty raw OL one year under Heinstead that did pretty well but he had all the pieces in place in the spring. Madden is a brick wall but not sure hesya three let alone a five technique lineman. So no running zone blocks and really mixing up the play book. OL needs tine to gel. We won't have that luxury this yeat
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The first 3 games they have time to gel.
 
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irish4life9999 said:
Ya that should be do it lol. Sorry if my faith in Quinn is not strong. Again nothing would me make me happier to eat my words. Which I will do here no problem.
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you didn't like how our line played last season. lines play on both sides isn't the problem as the skill postions are when it comes to winning in the playoffs as coach kelly has mentioned. i've heard him tell the media after one of the playoff losses that play at the skill positions have to get better
 
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irish4life9999 said:
Ya that should be do it lol. Sorry if my faith in Quinn is not strong. Again nothing would me make me happier to eat my words. Which I will do here no problem.
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So is it we dont have time to gel or is it you dont have faith in Quinn.

The time one was shot down so you go to Quinn. Just say that from jump and dont use the time as an excuse because its not one.

Quinn was very good last year. We have to see what he does this year.
 
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I would be more concerned if I lost 4 starters on my OL and there wasn't competition for positions.
 
irish4life9999 said:
Ya that should be do it lol. Sorry if my faith in Quinn is not strong. Again nothing would me make me happier to eat my words. Which I will do here no problem.
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There’s little reason to question Quinn’s abilities as an OL coach. I had reservations when he was selected for one reason only, and that was whether Kelly had reverted to his old self and selected a Buddy over much better qualified candidates. Since, Quinn has shown himself to be a good tireless recruiter, a great ambassador for ND, and a coach who developed one of the country’s best offensive lines this past season. Naysayers initially said he couldn’t recruit, and he put this to rest. Then it was he didn’t teach or coach technique, thus our pathetic run production, and he put this to rest, etc…. The guy has done a great job as our OL coach and he is facing a challenging year after Four of our five OL went to the NFL, but there’s little reason not to have faith in Quinn, and lots of reasons to worry about how long it will take for a whole new OL to gel. The OL plays as a unit with each player knowing the tendencies of the players next to them, and they each compensate and coordinate accordingly. We may be favored, but I think the OL will have its hands full with Florida St to kick off the season. I was a big fan of Lugg’s before last season, but he was slow and ineffective in his few starts, but he also played out of position with a bad back. I thought Zeke was only adequate in his few starts, but Another year in the system along with getting stronger will likely elevate his game significantly. Quinn’s biggest challenge is deciding whether Lugg is a better fit than Baker, and whether Rocco is a better fit than Zeke. I think he decides no on both, but he needs to reach these decisions quickly and get a starting five practicing together ASAP. Now it’s only 14 days!
 
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Telx1 said:
There’s little reason to question Quinn’s abilities as an OL coach. I had reservations when he was selected for one reason only, and that was whether Kelly had reverted to his old self and selected a Buddy over much better qualified candidates. Since, Quinn has shown himself to be a good tireless recruiter, a great ambassador for ND, and a coach who developed one of the country’s best offensive lines this past season. Naysayers initially said he couldn’t recruit, and he put this to rest. Then it was he didn’t teach or coach technique, thus our pathetic run production, and he put this to rest, etc…. The guy has done a great job as our OL coach and he is facing a challenging year after Four of our five OL went to the NFL, but there’s little reason not to have faith in Quinn, and lots of reasons to worry about how long it will take for a whole new OL to gel. The OL plays as a unit with each player knowing the tendencies of the players next to them, and they each compensate and coordinate accordingly. We may be favored, but I think the OL will have its hands full with Florida St to kick off the season. I was a big fan of Lugg’s before last season, but he was slow and ineffective in his few starts, but he also played out of position with a bad back. I thought Zeke was only adequate in his few starts, but Another year in the system along with getting stronger will likely elevate his game significantly. Quinn’s biggest challenge is deciding whether Lugg is a better fit than Baker, and whether Rocco is a better fit than Zeke. I think he decides no on both, but he needs to reach these decisions quickly and get a starting five practicing together ASAP. Now it’s only 14 days!
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Thank you, Telx- another great breakdown.

What are Your preferences: Zeke vs Rocco? Lugg vs Baker?
 
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IrishMike409 said:
Thank you, Telx- another great breakdown.

What are Your preferences: Zeke vs Rocco? Lugg vs Baker?
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Well, I’m no expert nor have I ever played a lineman’s position…just an opiniated fan! I really like Rocco and see the potential for an elite player. On first blush, I like Rocco over Zeke in terms of getting our best five players, but I don’t think this supports the best COMBINATION of players. I don’t like having two freshmen start on our left side. And so then the discussion becomes whether Starting Rocco as right guard and Madden as left guard is the best combo, and I think the answer is no. I think it Makes more sense to have Patterson play left guard next to our freshman Fisher and Madden play where he has excelled, albeit against lesser competition, at right guard. I guess one can argue that Rocco and Madden are competing for the right guard position under this scenario, but I think they brought Madden in to start, just like they did Coan.
As for Lugg versus Baker, each is a question mark in my mind. Baker has great upside, but he showed that he needs to get stronger and further develop his footwork and use of hands, etc…. So, assuming Lugg is the player we saw two seasons ago with his back issues behind him, then I pick Lugg over Baker for this season.
So, I prefer Lugg over Baker with the caveat about his back; and while I like Rocco over Zeke, I think we need Patterson next to Fisher which keeps Zeke at center and Rocco on the bench to start his freshman year.
 
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Telx1 said:
Well, I’m no expert nor have I ever played a lineman’s position…just an opiniated fan! I really like Rocco and see the potential for an elite player. On first blush, I like Rocco over Zeke in terms of getting our best five players, but I don’t think this supports the best COMBINATION of players. I don’t like having two freshmen start on our left side. And so then the discussion becomes whether Starting Rocco as right guard and Madden as left guard is the best combo, and I think the answer is no. I think it Makes more sense to have Patterson play left guard next to our freshman Fisher and Madden play where he has excelled, albeit against lesser competition, at right guard. I guess one can argue that Rocco and Madden are competing for the right guard position under this scenario, but I think they brought Madden in to start, just like they did Coan.
As for Lugg versus Baker, each is a question mark in my mind. Baker has great upside, but he showed that he needs to get stronger and further develop his footwork and use of hands, etc…. So, assuming Lugg is the player we saw two seasons ago with his back issues behind him, then I pick Lugg over Baker for this season.
So, I prefer Lugg over Baker with the caveat about his back; and while I like Rocco over Zeke, I think we need Patterson next to Fisher which keeps Zeke at center and Rocco on the bench to start his freshman year.
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Driskell is reporting that Patterson will be the center and Zeke will battle for a guard spot
 
Golson5 said:
Driskell is reporting that Patterson will be the center and Zeke will battle for a guard spot
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I Wanted Patterson to stay at Center, his best position, but I don’t see a better alternative for putting an experienced player next to Fisher. I frankly don’t see Zeke battling for a guard position at all. He was recruited to play center, and not sure he has the size and strength or skill to play guard. If Patterson is slotted back to center, then guys like Kristofic are back in the conversation. Still not clear who plays left guard next to a freshman tackle. I would love to see Rocco win this outright, just doubt that Kelly and Quinn will start two freshmen on The left side. This is going to be a really interesting Fall practice period.
 
I like Peterson back at center -- he's a leader, a proven top 3 in the country at that position. Cain, at 24, is an experienced OG, then let Zeke/Rocco fight it out for the other OG -- I'm worried about the tackles... Hopefully Lugg steps up and Fisher is as advertised. Gonna be an adventure (who knows, someone may surprise us) and is one of my main question marks (with CB) for this year (and Coan doesn't have Book's escapability.) Thanks Telx, for getting this conversations started.
 
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Golson5 said:
So is it we dont have time to gel or is it you dont have faith in Quinn.

The time one was shot down so you go to Quinn. Just say that from jump and dont use the time as an excuse because its not one.

Quinn was very good last year. We have to see what he does this year.
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Quinn was given a tremendous advantage having an elite line that was developed by Harry. He will ultimately be judged based on the development of his own recruits.
 
stu4don said:
I like Peterson back at center -- he's a leader, a proven top 3 in the country at that position. Cain, at 24, is an experienced OG, then let Zeke/Rocco fight it out for the other OG -- I'm worried about the tackles... Hopefully Lugg steps up and Fisher is as advertised. Gonna be an adventure (who knows, someone may surprise us) and is one of my main question marks (with CB) for this year (and Coan doesn't have Book's escapability.) Thanks Telx, for getting this conversations started.
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Coan isn’t Book, but he isn’t as skiddish as Book. He’s at least 3” taller, has more field in sight, and delivers from the pocket while getting hit. A better pocket passer than Ian, imo. Ian > overall. But Coan should be able to get the ball out and/or take a minimal loss sack.

I expect a lot of short/mid range routes. We have the nations best pass blocking RB, who also happens to be the nations best pass catching RB. That will help Coan tremendously if utilized. And let’s not forget, Kyren can run the ball too. Then we have potentially the best emerging TE in the nation.

I’m hoping to see a lot of two back sets since we have the fourth best tandem. A lot of play action to Mayer and even downfield throws to Williams. Need to get the speedster, Tyree the ball too. If Tyree becomes the receiver and/or blocking back that Kyren is, that would be an extremely dangerous duo. He spends all day with him; I’m sure he’s learning a thing or two. With two back sets, that puts 3 huge playmakers on the field. Coan can take off better than many realize. Go watch the Wisconsin highlight tape. He ran quite a bit. Then we just need a receiver or two to step up. With two terrific running backs with pass catching/blocking skills while also having to account for Mayer and the underrated ability of Coan to take off, that should free up coverage downfield for Davis and company.

If TR gets creative, we have a lot of receiving/blocking/running weapons with just aforementioned players. You have to get the best players on the field and get the ball in their hands. If Tyree is sitting pine all year, we have potentially the fastest player on the team doing nothing.

If I’m the OC, I’m spending an awful lot of time with Tyree to get him to learn and mimic the route running and blocking ability of Kyren so they can both be on the field at the same time. That double headed monster would be just as good as two more OL and receivers on the field. And when those two catch the ball, it’s a different animal than when a receiver catches the ball. They are built to break tackles.
 
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IrishMike409 said:
Thank you, Telx- another great breakdown.

What are Your preferences: Zeke vs Rocco? Lugg vs Baker?
Click to expand...
I think it boils down to Patterson. Once the decision is made as to where he ends up the rest should fall into place. I don't see Lugg being displaced by Baker at this point at all. If anything Patterson there over Lugg could be a possibility. There's no bad combination. You have an embarrassment of riches in that group. I don't doubt for a moment they'll get it right. Plenty of time for them to work together.
 
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jcswoopnh said:
This season will put an end to the Quinn haters as this is "his" line. The o line is going to be nasty and deep this year
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I went to GVSU. I’ve met Quinn. I have friends that played for him at grand valley. I coached his two sons in wrestling. I’ve always liked that he’s a wrestling guy. Makes for a damn good OL. I believe last I talked to him, he told me he both wrestled and played football in college. 2 sport collegiate athlete. I recall Stephen Neal, the guy that beat Brock Lesnar in the NCAA finals, walk on to the Patriots having not played football, and becoming an all pro and world champion, blocking for Tom Brady. Wrestlers are the most elite athletes on the planet, hence their domination in the UFC since it’s inception. But I digress, Quinn is an aggressive energy, hard nosed guy. I think he’s charismatic and should be a good recruiter from my experience with him. He’s a savvy, smooth talker, that comes off as a “balls to the walls” guy. Had a badass mindset. I like him. I think he’ll continue to do well! He will be judged fully once all is said and done, but I think he was a home run hire and we will continue to dominate along the OL as long as he’s around.
 
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Telx1 said:
Well, I’m no expert nor have I ever played a lineman’s position…just an opiniated fan! I really like Rocco and see the potential for an elite player. On first blush, I like Rocco over Zeke in terms of getting our best five players, but I don’t think this supports the best COMBINATION of players. I don’t like having two freshmen start on our left side. And so then the discussion becomes whether Starting Rocco as right guard and Madden as left guard is the best combo, and I think the answer is no. I think it Makes more sense to have Patterson play left guard next to our freshman Fisher and Madden play where he has excelled, albeit against lesser competition, at right guard. I guess one can argue that Rocco and Madden are competing for the right guard position under this scenario, but I think they brought Madden in to start, just like they did Coan.
As for Lugg versus Baker, each is a question mark in my mind. Baker has great upside, but he showed that he needs to get stronger and further develop his footwork and use of hands, etc…. So, assuming Lugg is the player we saw two seasons ago with his back issues behind him, then I pick Lugg over Baker for this season.
So, I prefer Lugg over Baker with the caveat about his back; and while I like Rocco over Zeke, I think we need Patterson next to Fisher which keeps Zeke at center and Rocco on the bench to start his freshman year.
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Great stuff. Thanks again. Enjoy the weekend. Stay cool.
 
So many questions TelX. Hey here’s another one. Are any practices open? I sill be on campus August 16-18

Telx1 said:
Looks like Fall practice will start Aug 7th. Can‘t get here soon enough To see answers start emerging to a lot of question marks. Anxious to see how the OL finally shakes out. I think with Madden’s arrival, this boils down to whether Rocco forces Zeke to the bench and Patterson back to center. Otherwise, I think we end up with Fisher Patterson Zeke Madden Lugg, left to right. Does Austin finally have an injury free season and deliver to what once was enormous potential? Who steps up to compliment Mayers and Davis and Austin? Does Kiser win the Rover position outright, or Shane, or ? Looks like Hart and Lewis at corner, but do Henderson and Riley force their way into the field? Who plays next to Hamilton at safety? Thought Spring practice would answer most these questions, but Covid limitations, injuries, and no reporter presence failed to provide much insight, and the Spring game even less so. Can’t get here soon enough!
Click to expand...
 
theskibro said:
So many questions TelX. Hey here’s another one. Are any practices open? I sill be on campus August 16-18
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Hi Ski…I read that they are requiring reporters to provide verification of vaccination, but haven’t seen anything as to practices open to the public. If practices were open to the public in the past, perhaps They will be again with the added proviso of the verification. Frankly, with new mask mandates being reimposed in some localities, I bet ND will side with excess caution and not open their practices beyond reporters.
 
Thanks for the post. I love the way the Olympics roll into fall practice! Also, with World Cup Qualifiers and Ryder Cup as appetizers to the football feast, not sure I will have a productive September.

My two "areas of concern" are Tommy Rees and the secondary. I think Tommy may be OK--but this offense will be stacked, and I hope he is ready to dominate. The unknowns in the secondary (sans Hamilton) are the key to what could be an elite defense. We need 3 or 4 corners and that position makes me really nervous. This could be a fantastic year but that is what interests/concerns me.
 
Telx1 said:
Looks like Fall practice will start Aug 7th. Can‘t get here soon enough To see answers start emerging to a lot of question marks. Anxious to see how the OL finally shakes out. I think with Madden’s arrival, this boils down to whether Rocco forces Zeke to the bench and Patterson back to center. Otherwise, I think we end up with Fisher Patterson Zeke Madden Lugg, left to right. Does Austin finally have an injury free season and deliver to what once was enormous potential? Who steps up to compliment Mayers and Davis and Austin? Does Kiser win the Rover position outright, or Shane, or ? Looks like Hart and Lewis at corner, but do Henderson and Riley force their way into the field? Who plays next to Hamilton at safety? Thought Spring practice would answer most these questions, but Covid limitations, injuries, and no reporter presence failed to provide much insight, and the Spring game even less so. Can’t get here soon enough!
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Keep your eye's on Clarence Lewis. I expect him to be an All American type player this year and next. He like, Kyle Hamilton, shined brightly as a true frosh. And he helped win us the game against North Carolina when Kyle went down. He had 12 tackles and a few passes broke up in that game. He won ACC player of the week for that performance.
A part of NC's game plan was to attack the true frosh with everything Sam Howell and their great receivers had but it was to no avail. Clarence was ready!!!
 
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BodiTheGreat said:
Switch the two goods with greats and I would agree with you.
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Quinns tenure at ND for offensive line starts this year. The past two seasons had Harry's DNA all over it. Also Watts who was Harry's protogie is gone to take a OC position. So it's now Quinns recruits, new line, and it's all on him. What amazes me is Quinn being such an amazing coach with so much experience and been with Kelly on and off forever was not named OC and a 27 year old with Zero experience over him. We will definitely find out this year.
 
BodiTheGreat said:
Keep your eye's on Clarence Lewis. I expect him to be an All American type player this year and next. He like, Kyle Hamilton, shined brightly as a true frosh. And he helped win us the game against North Carolina when Kyle went down. He had 12 tackles and a few passes broke up in that game. He won ACC player of the week for that performance.
A part of NC's game plan was to attack the true frosh with everything Sam Howell and their great receivers had but it was to no avail. Clarence was ready!!!
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Is this a satire piece? Clarence had one tackle vs unc and was not good last year and looks like a division 3 player physically.
 
The signing of Caine in the off season should have been a clue that something was not right with the way the o-line was shaping up!
 
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