Way too much blame on the coaches and too little on the players

[BaldyNd]

Coaches should definitely be judged, but if you break the game down so many issues came down to execution. It wasn’t coaching that made our two “NFL” tackles play slow and stupid. Wasn’t coaching that made Tyree drop that TD pass, and the other receivers not get any separation. Wasn’t coaching that made DJ Brown miss tackle after tackle.

I agree that we need to examine the staff but if we’re really placing blame it needs to be on the players first.

 

[savvyandsassier]

I suppose.... But maybe they're not being coached well in practice. And not being motivated and disciplined sufficiently. Right? And it's not a matter of the coaches are awesome and doing everything right, and get solid As across the board for all their myriad coaching efforts and responsibilities, pre-game, in-game, post-game, etc., and it's merely that the players are bungling incompetents who don't or can't stand and deliver when the whistle blows.

Football is an insanely coaching-intensive sport in all respects. Coaches and coaching dominates and defines the sport. Unlike say, soccer, where the players really are on their own for ninety minutes and implement the coaches' tactics as best they can and are otherwise left to their own devices.

So I would tend to disagree, and would be inclined, all else being equal, to put everything on the coaches, certainly if it feels like it's a trend, and not merely a matter of a botched play or bit of execution here or there....

 

[hoopsstar12]

It is interrelated. Ironically, Louisville would not have been undefeated had the NC State QB not turned the ball over so many times. So Louisville really isn't that great. We were so bad that it made them look invincible. The preparation for the game and play calling and mindset are driven by coaches. Yes players can have bad games but if you are playing with 10 guys and going for it on 4th and 11 unnecessarily from your own territory then imagine the mistakes behind the scenes during the week.

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

Nobody gets anywhere pointing fingers. Every coach and player needs to point the finger at the self and challenge the hell out of themselves to figure out what's not working and work like hell to improve.

 

[theskibro]

I suppose.... But maybe they're not being coached well in practice. And not being motivated and disciplined sufficiently. Right? And it's not a matter of the coaches are awesome and doing everything right, and get solid As across the board for all their myriad coaching efforts and responsibilities, pre-game, in-game, post-game, etc., and it's merely that the players are bungling incompetents who don't or can't stand and deliver when the whistle blows.

Football is an insanely coaching-intensive sport in all respects. Coaches and coaching dominates and defines the sport. Unlike say, soccer, where the players really are on their own for ninety minutes and implement the coaches' tactics as best they can and are otherwise left to their own devices.

So I would tend to disagree, and would be inclined, all else being equal, to put everything on the coaches, certainly if it feels like it's a trend, and not merely a matter of a botched play or bit of execution here or there....

This. SJB knows shit.

 

[NDinNJ]

It is interrelated. Ironically, Louisville would not have been undefeated had the NC State QB not turned the ball over so many times. So Louisville really isn't that great. We were so bad that it made them look invincible. The preparation for the game and play calling and mindset are driven by coaches. Yes players can have bad games but if you are playing with 10 guys and going for it on 4th and 11 unnecessarily from your own territory then imagine the mistakes behind the scenes during the week.

How can you say this? Maybe their defense is forcing those turnovers? They did it to Hartman, he had 3 turnovers last night. Got to give credit to that defense.

I agree with you on the coaching blunders, going for it on 4th and 11 with just under 10 minutes left was a real head scratcher. The coaching staff definitely panicked there and showed their inexperience.

 

[sjb75]

I suppose.... But maybe they're not being coached well in practice. And not being motivated and disciplined sufficiently. Right? And it's not a matter of the coaches are awesome and doing everything right, and get solid As across the board for all their myriad coaching efforts and responsibilities, pre-game, in-game, post-game, etc., and it's merely that the players are bungling incompetents who don't or can't stand and deliver when the whistle blows.

Football is an insanely coaching-intensive sport in all respects. Coaches and coaching dominates and defines the sport. Unlike say, soccer, where the players really are on their own for ninety minutes and implement the coaches' tactics as best they can and are otherwise left to their own devices.

So I would tend to disagree, and would be inclined, all else being equal, to put everything on the coaches, certainly if it feels like it's a trend, and not merely a matter of a botched play or bit of execution here or there....

Tell that crap to Mike Elko.

 

[Patrirish]

Coaches should definitely be judged, but if you break the game down so many issues came down to execution. It wasn’t coaching that made our two “NFL” tackles play slow and stupid. Wasn’t coaching that made Tyree drop that TD pass, and the other receivers not get any separation. Wasn’t coaching that made DJ Brown miss tackle after tackle.

I agree that we need to examine the staff but if we’re really placing blame it needs to be on the players first.

There is plenty of blame to go around, starting with the OLine

 

[sjb75]

There is plenty of blame to go around, starting with the OLine

Take a break.

 

[Patrirish]

How can you say this? Maybe their defense is forcing those turnovers? They did it to Hartman, he had 3 turnovers last night. Got to give credit to that defense.

I agree with you on the coaching blunders, going for it on 4th and 11 with just under 10 minutes left was a real head scratcher. The coaching staff definitely panicked there and showed their inexperience.

👍

 

[Patrirish]

Take a break.

From what, critical thinking ?

 

[IrishMike409]

Coaches should definitely be judged, but if you break the game down so many issues came down to execution. It wasn’t coaching that made our two “NFL” tackles play slow and stupid. Wasn’t coaching that made Tyree drop that TD pass, and the other receivers not get any separation. Wasn’t coaching that made DJ Brown miss tackle after tackle.

I agree that we need to examine the staff but if we’re really placing blame it needs to be on the players first.

Agree. I hate calling guys out, but there are dozens of merits to being an ND Football player, but with that also comes big time expectations that should be met.

Tyree has to catch that ball
The OL is soft
DJ Brown gives us almost nothing
Botellho came in and did nothing
Fisher should dominate
The WRs are flat out bad
LBs are inconsistent and just limited in the impact that they can actually make

It’s ugly right now. There’s no doubt about it.

 

[Get Nasty]

When good players and the majority of your team is playing like crap multiple games in a row… it starts with the coaches as they clearly aren’t coaching preparing or game planning with any quality to help the team out

 

[BaldyNd]

When good players and the majority of your team is playing like crap multiple games in a row… it starts with the coaches as they clearly aren’t coaching preparing or game planning with any quality to help the team out

So the coaches made Tyree drop the TD pass? And Fisher and Liafou to commit stupid penalties? What should they have reminded them before the game not to grab face masks? Joe Alt got blown up multiple times. He wasn’t out of position, he just got flat out beat.

Again I’m not excusing the coaches but if you break it down players were “in position to succeed” and did not many times last night

 

[Get Nasty]

So the coaches made Tyree drop the TD pass? And Fisher and Liafou to commit stupid penalties? What should they have reminded them before the game not to grab face masks? Joe Alt got blown up multiple times. He wasn’t out of position, he just got flat out beat.

Again I’m not excusing the coaches but if you break it down players were “in position to succeed” and did not many times last night

Being in the right spot and actually making a play are so different…we aren’t making plays anywhere, that’s why it’s not a player or two, it’s the team and starts with coaching

 

[mjconnau]

This team lacks poise and discipline, both of which are a direct reflection of the coaching staff.

 

[Tru2Irish]

Both Liaufau and Fisher face masks were avoidable reactions. Correll is not stopping anyone on blitzes from the middle. That DE who put Alt on his butt looks huge and tough as a bull.Why do we go with a guy and have success like Faison but then never look for him again in a game. I've seen Parker do this several games.

 

[ivan brunetti]

In college football, players get the credit for wins and coaches get the blame for losses. It is highlighted on the first page of the college football fans' handbook.

 

[sjb75]

This team lacks poise and discipline, both of which are a direct reflection of the coaching staff.

Tell that to Mile Elko on the last offensive series.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Only God knows who's really at fault. He is omniscient, and all-knowing, and while the future is always unknown to everyone, including our creator and the supreme being who put it all in motion all those billions of years ago.... and so-called determinism doesn't actually exist, at least not where organic life is concerned..... In real time as the plays are unfolding he pretty much totally knows what's going on. Plus he's in heaven so he has a really good view of the field. And he can totally watch the team practice, even though typically it's not open to the public.

And I'm guessing that in this case, while us mere mortals will never truly know the way God can, that the coaching is what was shitty. And it was pretty obvious. The offense was effing up all over the place, and just looking generally lame. These were not individual and unexpected or erratic player errors from an otherwise well-oiled, well-drilled machine. The dude was even saying it looked like a HS-level offense on ESPN....

 

[tbonesays]

How can you say this? Maybe their defense is forcing those turnovers? They did it to Hartman, he had 3 turnovers last night. Got to give credit to that defense.

I agree with you on the coaching blunders, going for it on 4th and 11 with just under 10 minutes left was a real head scratcher. The coaching staff definitely panicked there and showed their inexperience.

that was Hartman's worst game. He had blunders that were not caused by a defender in his face and a WR on the wrong route.

For the coaches, it would be a question of whether the team got adequate rest. They looked exhausted out there. Any chance the Oline snuck out to hit the bourbon trail?

 

[NDinNJ]

that was Hartman's worst game. He had blunders that were not caused by a defender in his face and a WR on the wrong route.

For the coaches, it would be a question of whether the team got adequate rest. They looked exhausted out there. Any chance the Oline snuck out to hit the bourbon trail?

Did you watch the game? He was sacked 5 times and was hurried all night.

 

[McCallen ND NYC]

Coaches are paid to put the players in best position to be successful. ND lost to a team with inferior talent. I put more blame on the coaches. They need to get the team prepared and ready. ND was neither against Louisville. Freeman looks to be lost occasionally on the sideline. Some of ND players deserved an ass chewing on the sidelines or should have been removed from the game. Coaches were too soft on them.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Did you watch the game? He was sacked 5 times and was hurried all night.

Hartman was pressured on probably 3/4 of his pass plays. I do not care how good a QB you are; Tom Brady is not going to look all pro with that much pressure on him. Now he did make mistakes as well; but very few of them were unforced.

 

[NDblitz]

It is interrelated. Ironically, Louisville would not have been undefeated had the NC State QB not turned the ball over so many times. So Louisville really isn't that great. We were so bad that it made them look invincible. The preparation for the game and play calling and mindset are driven by coaches. Yes players can have bad games but if you are playing with 10 guys and going for it on 4th and 11 unnecessarily from your own territory then imagine the mistakes behind the scenes during the week.

Interesting SC had 10 players on the field twice last week.

 

[banmate6]

It’s hard to assess these things. I have a day job, watch a few sports, kids, wife, and activities. I only know so much on Xs and Os. Same with players, as I don’t have time for stats, relying on mostly game to game eye tests.

My take so far is it’s on the ND coaches. The team is less than the sum of the parts. I don’t believe Duke and Louisville have comparable talent.

Many here have discussed the coaching issues. Also pointing out players, like the WRs and interior OL. But I agree with the camp that this is mostly on Freeman and Parker.

I’m past the point of ND being elite this year. But ND should be beating Duke and Louisville with some conviction.

 

[ndhuntington]

I have no idea why Sam doesn't get to audible it's starting to feel like Freeman wants to be conservative run the ball save his defense. We brought in Hartman to be a game manager.

 

[Chitown11]

I have no idea why Sam doesn't get to audible it's starting to feel like Freeman wants to be conservative run the ball save his defense. We brought in Hartman to be a game manager.

I find it very hard to believe that the coaches will not let a SIX year QB audible at line of scrimmage. If that is true, they are complete morons.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Interesting SC had 10 players on the field twice last week.

How in the world does that happen especially on critical plays?

 

[Get Nasty]

How in the world does that happen especially on critical plays?

Riley doesn't care about defense, other than get the ball back to his offense as fast as possible.

Freeman, is still figuring out how to coach.

 

[Telx1]

Rudolph and Stuckey and Parker need to figure out how to get some speed on the field with over the top plays to keep defenses honest, and how to give Hartman adequate time on pass plays. If our receivers get separation and we hit a couple long passes and the line gives Hartman adequate time, then defenses will quit committing to stoping the run and blitzing like mad on obvious pass downs. Freeman can still have his pound the ball dominant run game, but not unless The defense has To play to defend the pass as well. Parker deserves criticism for some of his play calling, but Rudolph and the players deserve criticism for pathetic OL effort, and the receivers deserve criticism for dropped balls and lack of toughness.

Tyree and Merriweather and Faison and James have the speed necessary to force defenses to defend the long ball, and Parker and Stuckey need to figure out how to make optimum use of their speed; and the players need to make Plays!

 

[deadirishpoet]

Coaches should definitely be judged, but if you break the game down so many issues came down to execution. It wasn’t coaching that made our two “NFL” tackles play slow and stupid. Wasn’t coaching that made Tyree drop that TD pass, and the other receivers not get any separation. Wasn’t coaching that made DJ Brown miss tackle after tackle.

I agree that we need to examine the staff but if we’re really placing blame it needs to be on the players first.

To an extent the title to the subject is true

 

[deadirishpoet]

Coaches should definitely be judged, but if you break the game down so many issues came down to execution. It wasn’t coaching that made our two “NFL” tackles play slow and stupid. Wasn’t coaching that made Tyree drop that TD pass, and the other receivers not get any separation. Wasn’t coaching that made DJ Brown miss tackle after tackle.

I agree that we need to examine the staff but if we’re really placing blame it needs to be on the players first.

To an extent the subject title is correct.

Accountability!

 

[mbd11]

Perhaps fatigue played a role as well, in their 3rd straight tough night game, and 7th game in a row overall. A tired team is more likely to play sloppy and make mistakes.

 

[tbonesays]

It’s hard to assess these things. I have a day job, watch a few sports, kids, wife, and activities. I only know so much on Xs and Os. Same with players, as I don’t have time for stats, relying on mostly game to game eye tests.

My take so far is it’s on the ND coaches. The team is less than the sum of the parts. I don’t believe Duke and Louisville have comparable talent.

Many here have discussed the coaching issues. Also pointing out players, like the WRs and interior OL. But I agree with the camp that this is mostly on Freeman and Parker.

I’m past the point of ND being elite this year. But ND should be beating Duke and Louisville with some conviction.

Me too. One does not needuch schematic knowledge to see that UL knew what play had been called. And ND rarely if ever fooled them with misdirection.

The only times they were not sure is when the passing game decided to emphasize Flores, which went nowhere.

 

[BGI User 756]

When good players and the majority of your team is playing like crap multiple games in a row… it starts with the coaches as they clearly aren’t coaching preparing or game planning with any quality to help the team out

Majority of team? The entire issue with Duke and Ville was the offense…and specifically with very obvious play calling that neutralized Estime, and a shallow WR room that provided little threat to throw over the stacked box. Now, against Ville you could see fatigue in the individuals in the OL…as Alt and Fisher are much better than they showed

 

[Patrirish]

Interesting SC had 10 players on the field twice last week.

So our calamitous coaching mistake on the last two critical plays in the game are acceptable because some other team was short a player on a random, non-critical play ?

That’s your excuse ?

You sound like someone who favors participation trophies !