Post Signing Day Roster w/ Rivals Rating

[chaseball]

For those that are unsure of Rivals Rating .. it's the additional rating given to each player on their profile. It's a sub-tier to the star system. Not all players classified as 2/3/4 star are equal. e.g. there are 3 tiers of 4 star players alone (5.8, 5.9, 6.0) ... the higher the rivals rating, the more rare the talent.

The reason the star ratings need an additional break-down in this way is because the star system is a scale used for all 128 FBS programs. But reality is, the best programs in the country really only recruit 4 stars and up. So an additional sub-tier was created to distinguish between these players as well (which is where the Rivals Rating comes in).

Rivals Rating | Star Classification
6.1 = 5 star player
6.0 = high 4 star
5.9 = 4 star
5.8 = low 4 star
5.7 = high 3 star
5.6 = 3 star
5.5 = low 3 star
etc. etc. etc.

I am using IIOs original list as a proxy but adding each player's Rivals Rating (Rivals is considered the industry standard when it comes to recruiting ratings' accuracy). Rivals has the biggest budget, staff, etc.

The best programs in the country really only recruit 5.8 talents and up. Using this as a basis, we can even change the star rating system to reflect only this premier tier of athletes that the most talent rich programs are in competition for. Lets call this the 'diamond' rating system. For reference, 2.5 diamonds = an average talent on a top 5% program in college football.

Rivals Rating | Diamonds
6.1 = <><><><><> (top ~25 nationally rated talent)
6.0 = <><><><> (top ~50 nationally rated talent)
5.9 = <><><> (top ~100 nationally rated talent)
5.8 = <><> (top ~300 nationally rated talent)
5.7 = <>
<5.7 = empty/NR

Position | Average Diamond Rating:

Quarterbacks | 1.5
Montgomery VanGorder (SR)
Brandon Wimbush (JR), <><><><>
Ian Book (SOPH), <>
Avery Davis (FR), <>

Running backs | 1.75
Josh Adams (JR), <>
Dexter Williams (JR), <><><>
Tony Jones (SOPH), <>
CJ Holmes (FR), <><>

Wide Receivers | 1.8
Miles Boykin (JR), <><><>
Chris Finke (JR)
CJ Sanders(JR), <><>
EQ St Brown (JR), <><><>
Kevin Stepherson (SOPH), <>
Javon Mckinley (SOPH), <><><><>
Chase Claypool (SOPH), <><><>
Deon McIntosh (SOPH)
Jafar Armstrong (FR), <>
Michael Young (FR), <>

Tight Ends | 2.33
Durham Smythe (5th), <>
Tyler Luatua (SR), <>
Nic Weishar (SR), <><>
Aliz'e Jones (JR), <><><>
Cole Kmet (FR), <><><>
Brock Wright (FR), <><><><>

Offensive Line | 2.47
Mike McGlinchey (5th), <><>
Hunter Bivin (5th), <><>
Sam Mustipher (SR), <><>
Quenton Nelson (SR), <><><><><>
Alex Bars (SR), <><><>
Jimmy Byrne (SR), <><>
Trevor Ruhland (JR), <>
Tristen Hoge (JR), <><><>
Parker Boudreaux (SOPH), <><>
Liam Eichenberg (SOPH), <><>
Tommy Kraemer (SOPH), <><><><>
Aaron Banks (FR), <><><>
Josh Lugg (FR), <><>
Robert Hainsey (FR), <><><>
Dillan Gibbons (FR), <>

Defensive Tackles / Nose Guards | 1.2
Daniel Cage (SR), <>
Pete Mokwuah (SR)
Jonathan Bonner (SR)
Jerry Tillery (JR), <><><> (rating reflects his prospects as an OL, not DL)
Micah Dew-Treadway (JR), <>
Elijah Taylor (JR), <>
Brandon Tiassum (JR), <>
Darnell Ewell (FR), <><><>
Myron Tagavailoa-Amosa (FR), <>
Kurt Hinish (FR), <>

Strong Side Defensive Ends | 1.5 (combined DEs)
Jay Hayes (SR), <><>
Khalid Kareem (SOPH), <><>
Ade Ogundeji (SOPH)
Johnathan MacCollister (FR)

Weak Side Defensive Ends | 1.5 (combined DEs)
Andrew Trumbetti (SR), <>
Daelin Hayes (SOPH), <><><><><>
Julian Okwara (SOPH), <><>
Kofi Wardlow (FR)

Buck Linebackers | 1.33 (combined LBs)
Greer Martini (SR)
Asmar Bilal (JR), <><>
Jamir Jones (SOPH)
Drew White (FR)

Mike Linebackers | 1.33 (combined LBs)
Nyles Morgan (SR), <><><>
Te'Von Coney (JR), <><><>
Josh Barajas (JR), <><>
Jonathan Jones (SOPH), <>
David Adams (FR), <>

Rovers | 1.0 (combined S)
Drue Tranquil (SR), <>
Spencer Perry (SOPH), <>
Jeremiah Owusu-Koromoah (FR), <>

Corners | 1.83
Nick Watkins (SR), <><>
Ashton White (JR)
Shaun Crawford (JR), <><><>
Donte Vaughn (SOPH), <><>
Troy Pride (SOPH), <><>
Julian Love (SOPH), <><>

Free Safeties | 1.0 (combined S)
Nick Coleman (JR)
Nicco Fertitta (JR)
Jalen Elliot (SOPH), <><>
Isaiah Robertson (FR), <><>

Strong Safeties | 1.0 (combined S)
Devin Studstill (SOPH), <>
DJ Morgan (SOPH), <><>
Jordan Genmark-Heath (FR)

Kickers
Justin Yoon (SOPH)
John Doerer (FR)

Punters
Tyler Newsome (SR)

Visual Representation:

We should ALL be crossing our collective fingers for Top 100 nationally rated commitments (5.9 rivals rated/3 diamond players and up) at basically any defensive position going forward -- to better balance the roster and close the immense talent gap on that side of the ball.

 

[perseverare]

yikes; KISS

the D has been 'doggy diamonds'!

 

[Pennick44]

I am using IIOs original list as a proxy but adding each player's Rivals Rating (Rivals is considered the industry standard when it comes to recruiting ratings' accuracy). Rivals has the biggest budget, staff, etc.

The Rivals-Rating is a key sub-tier to distinguish player's by; as the top tier, A grade, top 7% of programs are really only recruiting from this group. Using that as a basis, we can even change the star rating system to reflect only this premier tier of program's in college football and how their talent is rated relative to one another.

Lets call this the 'diamond' rating system. For reference, 3 diamonds = an average talent on a top 7% program in college football.

Rivals Rating | Diamonds
6.1 = <><><><><>
6.0 = <><><><>
5.9 = <><><> (average talent)
5.8 = <><>
5.7 = <>
<5.7 = empty/NR

Position | Average Diamond Rating:

Quarterbacks | 1.5
Montgomery VanGorder (SR)
Brandon Wimbush (JR), <><><><>
Ian Book (SOPH), <>
Avery Davis (FR), <>

Running backs | 1.75
Josh Adams (JR), <>
Dexter Williams (JR), <><><>
Tony Jones (SOPH), <>
CJ Holmes (FR), <><>

Wide Receivers | 1.8
Miles Boykin (JR), <><><>
Chris Finke (JR)
CJ Sanders(JR), <><>
EQ St Brown (JR), <><><>
Kevin Stepherson (SOPH), <>
Javon Mckinley (SOPH), <><><><>
Chase Claypool (SOPH), <><><>
Deon McIntosh (SOPH)
Jafar Armstrong (FR), <>
Michael Young (FR), <>

Tight Ends | 2.33
Durham Smythe (5th), <>
Tyler Luatua (SR), <>
Nic Weishar (SR), <><>
Aliz'e Jones (JR), <><><>
Cole Kmet (FR), <><><>
Brock Wright (FR), <><><><>

Offensive Line | Avg Rating: 2.47
Mike McGlinchey (5th), <><>
Hunter Bivin (5th), <><>
Sam Mustipher (SR), <><>
Quenton Nelson (SR), <><><><><>
Alex Bars (SR), <><><>
Jimmy Byrne (SR), <><>
Trevor Ruhland (JR), <>
Tristen Hoge (JR), <><><>
Parker Boudreaux (SOPH), <><>
Liam Eichenberg (SOPH), <><>
Tommy Kraemer (SOPH), <><><><>
Aaron Banks (FR), <><><>
Josh Lugg (FR), <><>
Robert Hainsey (FR), <><><>
Dillan Gibbons (FR), <>

Defensive Tackles / Nose Guards | 1.2
Daniel Cage (SR), <>
Pete Mokwuah (SR)
Jonathan Bonner (SR)
Jerry Tillery (JR), <><><> (rating reflects his prospects as an OL, not DL)
Micah Dew-Treadway (JR), <>
Elijah Taylor (JR), <>
Brandon Tiassum (JR), <>
Darnell Ewell (FR), <><><>
Myron Tagavailoa-Amosa (FR), <>
Kurt Hinish (FR), <>

Strong Side Defensive Ends | 1.5 (combined DEs)
Jay Hayes (SR), <><>
Khalid Kareem (SOPH), <><>
Ade Ogundeji (SOPH)
Johnathan MacCollister (FR)

Weak Side Defensive Ends | 1.5 (combined DEs)
Andrew Trumbetti (SR), <>
Daelin Hayes (SOPH), <><><><><>
Julian Okwara (SOPH), <><>
Kofi Wardlow (FR)

Buck Linebackers | 1.33 (combined LBs)
Greer Martini (SR)
Asmar Bilal (JR), <><>
Jamir Jones (SOPH)
Drew White (FR)

Mike Linebackers | 1.33 (combined LBs)
Nyles Morgan (SR), <><><>
Te'Von Coney (JR), <><><>
Josh Barajas (JR), <><>
Jonathan Jones (SOPH), <>
David Adams (FR), <>

Rovers | 1.0 (combined S)
Drue Tranquil (SR), <>
Spencer Perry (SOPH), <>
Jeremiah Owusu-Koromoah (FR), <>

Corners | 1.83
Nick Watkins (SR), <><>
Ashton White (JR)
Shaun Crawford (JR), <><><>
Donte Vaughn (SOPH), <><>
Troy Pride (SOPH), <><>
Julian Love (SOPH), <><>

Free Safeties | 1.0 (combined S)
Nick Coleman (JR)
Nicco Fertitta (JR)
Jalen Elliot (SOPH), <><>
Isaiah Robertson (FR), <><>

Strong Safeties | 1.0 (combined S)
Devin Studstill (SOPH), <>
DJ Morgan (SOPH), <><>
Jordan Genmark-Heath (FR)

Kickers
Justin Yoon (SOPH)
John Doerer (FR)

Punters
Tyler Newsome (SR)

Visual Representation:

Get a hobby. Or maybe a girlfriend? Those evaluating have less football knowledge than purs.

 

[chaseball]

Based on the information above, ND has 2 position groups recruited equally to the top 6 programs in the country (and maybe 3 when Jerkovec replaces VanGorder at QB after NSD 2018 -- but we all know we can't count our chickens before they hatch)

 

[Gimmea10wincoach]

Get a hobby. Or maybe a girlfriend? Those evaluating have less football knowledge than purs.

Guy adds something of value, does more on a message board than you've done all day I'm sure! All you do is attack people here. Make like BVG and GTFO! Coward.

 

[perseverare]

Based on the information above, ND has 2 position groups recruited equally to the top 6 programs in the country (and maybe 3 when Jerkovec replaces VanGorder at QB after NSD 2018 -- but we all know we can't count our chickens before they hatch)

WR's, TE's & OL (all offense) but we knew this.
Keep in mind that the OL has not performed at the level expected.

And then there is the coaching and lack of development.

(btw: I have the 'mean girls' on iggy; wgas)

 

[IrishInOntario]

Chase,

Nice work. Thank you for the effort. I have 3 issues, however, with your using only Rivals as your ranking.

1. Many of the best people at Rivals left and formed 247. I feel like the credibility of their evaluators took a fairly substantial hit when that happened. JMO.

2. Rivals is a business and they are notorious for ranking kids highly that attended their camps and inexplicably ranking kids (Liam Eichenberg) way, way, way below the other services. I would much rather have to collective opinion of 4 different services, rather than any one biased service. (they all are in some way)... JMO.

3. I also have long been convinced that Rivals tries to apply the regional equality rule to its rankings and upsells kids from bad football regions, while downplaying kids from the football rich regions, so as to appeal to the national landscape of CFB fans.

Give me a composite ranking any day.

 

[chaseball]

Chase,

Nice work. Thank you for the effort. I have 3 issues, however, with your using only Rivals as your ranking.

1. Many of the best people at Rivals left and formed 247. I feel like the credibility of their evaluators took a fairly substantial hit when that happened. JMO.

2. Rivals is a business and they are notorious for ranking kids highly that attended their camps and inexplicably ranking kids (Liam Eichenberg) way, way, way below the other services. I would much rather have to collective opinion of 4 different services, rather than any one biased service. (they all are in some way)... JMO.

3. I also have long been convinced that Rivals tries to apply the regional equality rule to its rankings and upsells kids from bad football regions, while downplaying kids from the football rich regions, so as to appeal to the national landscape of CFB fans.

Give me a composite ranking any day.

You make some valid points here .. i'd much rather combine 247 & Rivals and leave ESPN & Scout at the altar. But that's way too much work. I think Rivals is pretty stringent with their ratings .. and cover the largest amount of ground so they provide a decent idea of what's going on big picture in terms of relative talent.

 

[57Patrick]

I hope this rating system is inaccurate. McClinchey (1st Rd NFL) is a 2 Diamond, Josh Adams is a ONE Diamond (Ouch), and Alize Jones is a 3 Diamond. Our best players don't rate very high. If these rating are right, we are cellar dwellers in the Sun Belt Conference. Please tell me we have more talent than this.

 

[Ara64]

Ever since I joined the computer age in 2005 I've followed Rivals, Scout, 247, and ESPN. I love recruiting and doing my list, chart, and graph thing. Recruiting is my hobby these days since my body rebelled against me. I always defer to the coaching staff because they see the players in person, have tons of tape on them, and it's their butt over the fire, so to speak. I've always paid attention to my buddy 35, IIO, Telx, Bodi, Eric Hansen, and other reliable sources of information.

This is what my book tells me about the make-up of the 2017 team right now. We have 86 scholarship players right now with the possibility of adding a transfer. we currently have 5-5 star; 61-4 star; 19-3 star; and 1-2 star player on the roster. I have broken the four star players down by how many services gave each player their four star rating: 31 were unanimous 4 star picks; 7 picked by 3 services; 7 by 2 services; and 16 picked by 1 service. The talent's there to win a lot of football games this year if.......

 

[chaseball]

I hope this rating system is inaccurate. McClinchey (1st Rd NFL) is a 2 Diamond, Josh Adams is a ONE Diamond (Ouch), and Alize Jones is a 3 Diamond. Our best players don't rate very high. If these rating are right, we are cellar dwellers in the Sun Belt Conference. Please tell me we have more talent than this.

This should only be used as an evaluation of the program's recruiting ability -- not how well they've developed players (the higher the diamond the theoretically more in demand the player was in his recruiting class and thus the harder it was to secure said recruit's commitment).

This is of course an inexact science but it gives us some idea of NDs ability (or inability depending on the way you want to look at it) to recruit/attract those very highly in demand recruits.

QB, TE, and OL are looking very solid right now (ND is able to attract high in demand--elite tier talent at these positions). Im adding QB here because Jerkovec seems like a lock, and VanGorder will likely be off scholarship after this season.

The rest of the position groups are way behind that championship/top 5% level in terms of talent -- all to different degrees.

 

[IrishInOntario]

This should only be used as an evaluation of the program's recruiting ability -- not how well they've developed players (the higher the diamond the theoretically more in demand the player was in his recruiting class and thus the harder it was to secure said recruit's commitment).

This is of course an inexact science but it gives us some idea of NDs ability (or inability depending on the way you want to look at it) to recruit/attract those very highly in demand recruits.

QB, TE, and OL are looking very solid right now (ND is able to attract high in demand--elite tier talent at these positions). Im adding QB here because Jerkovec seems like a lock, and VanGorder will likely be off scholarship after this season.

The rest of the position groups are way behind that championship/top 5% level in terms of talent -- all to different degrees.

I would add WR as a position that is fairly loaded. The nature of ND's offense such that WR's develop nicely, regardless of their ranking. That said, we'll see how or if that changes with the departure of arguably the finest WR coach in America, Mike Denbrock. Man did that guy develop WR's. I like Alexander though. He's developed some really nice players too. Nick was a kid that I loved at Wisconsin, as was the kid he coached at Oregon State whose name is slipping my mind. I think in St. Brown, Claypool, Stepherson, Mckinley, Sanders, Jones (he's more WR than TE) ND could have a dynamic group of pass catchers.

Also, FWIW, as a former recruiting coordinator, it's my opinion that the position was the most "sleepers" in every class, is wide receiver. Reason being that their success and production, and hence their ranking, is dependent on good quarterback play. The reason so many WR fly under the radar and end up at schools that leave you scratching your head is that they may not have had the luxury or playing with quality QB that could showcase them. It's such a deep position that a guy like Stepherson may be a stud and a freshman All american, yet he's not even raneed as a 4 star guy coming out... And just think, at least twice this year Stepherson was WIDE open for easy, long touchdowns and Kizer was simo,y inaccurate and missed him. Kid could have easily had another 100+ yards and 2-3 more TD's in his freshman campaign.

 

[bizzybecknd]

I'd much rather evaluate a kid 2-3 years in, for example:

Max Redfield: Rivals 5 star, Reality 2 Star

CJ Procise 3 Star, Reality 5 Star

I'm not defying recruiting rankings because I do believe they matter but rather lets assign stars to ND kids now and see how we feel. What does Alize Jones or Josh Adams rivals ranking have to do with where they are now? Some 5 star kids are now 2, or are studs like their ranking. I'd rather see an updated star count on where the player is now, not at 17 years old.

 

[chaseball]

I'd much rather evaluate a kid 2-3 years in, for example:

Max Redfield: Rivals 5 star, Reality 2 Star

CJ Procise 3 Star, Reality 5 Star

I'm not defying recruiting rankings because I do believe they matter but rather lets assign stars to ND kids now and see how we feel. What does Alize Jones or Josh Adams rivals ranking have to do with where they are now? Some 5 star kids are now 2, or are studs like their ranking. I'd rather see an updated star count on where the player is now, not at 17 years old.

I agree with what you are saying, but once a player signs, we no longer have an objective/neutral/3rd party evaluation of a player, and how said player is rated relative to his peers.

This graph/post/exercise is more about NDs ability to attract high in demand nationally rated recruits, than anything regarding how well they've scouted or developed players. I understand this leaves limitations in the analysis, but it still offers some insight into team strengths/weaknesses AND position groups the program is having success and failures recruiting RELATIVE to the most talent rich programs in the country.

 

[chaseball]

BTW: I realize that I wasn't as clear as I could be with my introduction/summary of the graph and how to interpret the adjusted rating system. So I updated my original post with some additional context for those that are interested in a clearer picture.

 

[chaseball]

After looking over these ratings another time, there's another very noteworthy item to point out here:

The loss of Malik Zaire & Deshone Kizer in combination was very underrated this offseason. We just lost two veteran highly rated players at the position with very little to back them up. Moreover, Brian Kelly's offense puts a lot of wear and tear on the QBs (he's had more seasons than not where he's had to give a lot of playing time to #2/#3 QBs on the depth chart due to injuries to the starter).

Wimbush will be a first year starter -- regardless of his prodigious prospects/talent -- if he is ineffective OR gets injured, the drop off to two low rated/inexperienced underclassmen would likely derail the 2017 season.

 

[IrishInOntario]

After looking over these ratings another time, there's another very noteworthy item to point out here:

The loss of Malik Zaire & Deshone Kizer in combination was very underrated this offseason. We just lost two veteran highly rated players at the position with very little to back them up. Moreover, Brian Kelly's offense puts a lot of wear and tear on the QBs (he's had more seasons than not where he's had to give a lot of playing time to #2/#3 QBs on the depth chart due to injuries to the starter).

Wimbush will be a first year starter -- regardless of his prodigious prospects/talent -- if he is ineffective OR gets injured, the drop off to two low rated/inexperienced underclassmen would likely derail the 2017 season.

I agree with this concern Chase. There is a theory out there that ND is seeking at grad transfer at quarterback for insurance purposes. Obviously that player isn't likely going to be a star (if he's even a quarterback) but maybe he's a player that would provide a quality veteran player off the bench, in the mould of a Tommy Rees circa 2012.

As for recruiting 3 stars, the key is to recruit high upside 3 star guys and realize that not every kid is made equally. People routinely point out that Clemson's team this year had an abundance of 3 stars starting for them, which I'd completely true. Outside of their middle linebacker and slot receiver, however (think of a developed Greer Martini and Chris Finke as comparisons), those 3 stars were all high upside guys that they hit on.

Ifnyou're going to land 3 star players, Chase guys with good athleticism and measurables, who have the skill set to develop into an elite player. A guy like a CJ Prosise is what I'm talking about. A 6'1, 190lb jack-of-all-trades, with track speed, who simply needed to hone in on a position. CJ became a very good player (what you expect out of a mid to high level 4 star player). Other past examples of guys like this are Tyler Eifert, Nic Weishar, Chris Brown, Romeo Okwara, Kona Schwenke, Kevin Stepherson etc, etc. These are all guys that were highly productive high schools players, ranked as 3 stars, with the clear potential to develop into really quality players.

Too often ND lands 3 star players that make you think "ewwwwww.... Where is the upside?" I see that in a couple prospects in the 2017 class. However, I also see guys that excite me, such as Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, Jordan Genmark-Heath, Jafar Armstrong and Myron Tagavailoa-Amosa. All composite 3 star players, with high upside. Big athletes, with frames to fill out and plenty of speed... It's obvious that this new staff is comprised of coaches that come from smaller schools that can't attract 4 and 5 star talent. Guys like Polian, Lea, Elko and Long have made their careers recently by being able to find really good athletes and developing them into quality football players.

This gives me hope that ND will do a better job recruiting deep classes full of athletes, and will get better bottom end production in their classes. What we've yet to see is if any of these guys can close on top 100 type 4 and 5 star prospects. Those 6-7 starters that would go a long way towards helping get to the playoffs.

 

[perseverare]

After looking over these ratings another time, there's another very noteworthy item to point out here:

The loss of Malik Zaire & Deshone Kizer in combination was very underrated this offseason. We just lost two veteran highly rated players at the position with very little to back them up. Moreover, Brian Kelly's offense puts a lot of wear and tear on the QBs (he's had more seasons than not where he's had to give a lot of playing time to #2/#3 QBs on the depth chart due to injuries to the starter).

Wimbush will be a first year starter -- regardless of his prodigious prospects/talent -- if he is ineffective OR gets injured, the drop off to two low rated/inexperienced underclassmen would likely derail the 2017 season.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
everything (opinions) read regarding Wim are not so much different than the pre-mature accolades attributed to Golson. The obvious traits are running ability/arm strentgh; but there have been many talented QB before him; how well he does has as much to do with the 'unseen' intangibles.

And as noted, there is noone behind your 1st year starter except another inexperienced reserve.

 

[Kelso86]

really -- the best rating services are the coaches (well, in theory anyway) -- they see lot more than any of us ever will.

 

[perseverare]

really -- the best rating services are the coaches (well, in theory anyway) -- they see lot more than any of us ever will.

well the ratings services are the tool used by coaches and based on results the ratings are generally very good predictors; look at the top of the college football rankings for proof.

Those that denegrade the rankings are fans of teams that are not getting the highest ranked players. These sour grapes fans will point out exception as if exceptions are the rules! Noooo, they are not, they are exceptions. Coaches cannot make a living trying to find the exceptions or diamonds in the rough!
And more apparent evidence for ND fans is the ND defense.

 

[chaseball]

As for recruiting 3 stars, the key is to recruit high upside 3 star guys and realize that not every kid is made equally. People routinely point out that Clemson's team this year had an abundance of 3 stars starting for them, which I'd completely true. Outside of their middle linebacker and slot receiver, however (think of a developed Greer Martini and Chris Finke as comparisons), those 3 stars were all high upside guys that they hit on.

Ifnyou're going to land 3 star players, Chase guys with good athleticism and measurables, who have the skill set to develop into an elite player. A guy like a CJ Prosise is what I'm talking about. A 6'1, 190lb jack-of-all-trades, with track speed, who simply needed to hone in on a position. CJ became a very good player (what you expect out of a mid to high level 4 star player). Other past examples of guys like this are Tyler Eifert, Nic Weishar, Chris Brown, Romeo Okwara, Kona Schwenke, Kevin Stepherson etc, etc. These are all guys that were highly productive high schools players, ranked as 3 stars, with the clear potential to develop into really quality players.

Too often ND lands 3 star players that make you think "ewwwwww.... Where is the upside?" I see that in a couple prospects in the 2017 class. However, I also see guys that excite me, such as Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, Jordan Genmark-Heath, Jafar Armstrong and Myron Tagavailoa-Amosa. All composite 3 star players, with high upside. Big athletes, with frames to fill out and plenty of speed... It's obvious that this new staff is comprised of coaches that come from smaller schools that can't attract 4 and 5 star talent. Guys like Polian, Lea, Elko and Long have made their careers recently by being able to find really good athletes and developing them into quality football players.

This gives me hope that ND will do a better job recruiting deep classes full of athletes, and will get better bottom end production in their classes. What we've yet to see is if any of these guys can close on top 100 type 4 and 5 star prospects. Those 6-7 starters that would go a long way towards helping get to the playoffs.

I always appreciate a contrasting perspective ESPECIALLY one with sound logic. However, Clemson is another one of those programs that is an exception to the rule. And the reason why you don't want to rely on "exceptions to the rule" is because they are really hard to replicate.

If we take Clemson out of the picture (even though they recruited back to back top 6 classes in 2015 & 2016) by and large, the favorites on Saturdays, the teams winning the biggest games, and the programs with the most respect from the playoff committee, are the programs who are recruiting the best talent in abundance. And ND can be one of those programs. They were for much of the 20th century (a recruiting super power in college football). The built in advantages ND once enjoyed are gone (exclusive tv deal, lots of talent in the midwest, etc.)

I don't want ND to be the exception to the rule (a team that hits on a bunch of 3 stars one year when everything breaks right -- or lucks into a coach worthy of a statue once every several decades) .. we need an institution from top to bottom that is willing to pander and pedestalize these rare, valuable, and extremely talented athletes ... but ND is too naive and administration is too stupid to see it.

We need half of the coaching staff to be shrewd/ruthless recruiters. We need more money invested back into the football program. We should have the highest paid coaching staff in the country. NDs football revenue still ranks among the top every year. ND needs more clubhouse luxuries. Less demanding curriculum on the athletes-- in the 21st century it's all about specialization. More academic exceptions for borderline recruits. etc. etc. etc.

 

[57Patrick]

Purse, I'm not sure it isn't the other way around. You state the ratings are a tool used by coaches. I have found more of the opposite. The ratings appear to look at which schools are offering a particular player and structure their ratings around that measurement. I don't think Urban Meyer, Nick Saban or Brian Kelly look at the ratings to determine which kids they want to recruit. I don't know that to be a fact, but it would seem they would believe they are better at determining a player's ability than someone that gets paid to sell information to the public.

 

[irishstuey81]

Wasn't Alize one of the top recruits in the country?

 

[Pennick44]

Purse, I'm not sure it isn't the other way around. You state the ratings are a tool used by coaches. I have found more of the opposite. The ratings appear to look at which schools are offering a particular player and structure their ratings around that measurement. I don't think Urban Meyer, Nick Saban or Brian Kelly look at the ratings to determine which kids they want to recruit. I don't know that to be a fact, but it would seem they would believe they are better at determining a player's ability than someone that gets paid to sell information to the public.

No competent coach would use ratings. Ridiculous.

 

[NyyorkerND]

No competent coach would use ratings. Ridiculous.

I agree it's all about film and a good coach would know that stars don't tell you instinct, character, coachability, etc. They will get you noticed early in the process. If it's all about star rankings the first few rounds of the the nfl draft would be all 5 star recruits. College and pro coaches still watch tape. That being said recruiting sites like rivals, 247, scout, etc have gotten better at projections but it's still a inexact science.